1800 mandates 10% from the florist?

[Carrieann]

Anyone with 1800 get a message stating they are doing a promotion for the week of Vday for 20% off for their customers for delivery dates on Mon thru Wed. and they want the FLORIST to take 10% less on the order?????

I have not seen this message, I have been home with the flu all week. My mom (the owner) just called me and told me about it. She got the message yesterday. She called the number on the message that says to call if you have any questions. She asked the women if this was mandatory. She first said no, So my mom asked how to opt out of it. She was put on hold and then was told that in fact it IS mandatory. My mom said she would not do it. She was again put on hold and evidentally got the voice mail to our rep. (who is useless!!, always says "oh, that's not me, you have to call...") Anyway, she left her a message that we will NOT do the 10% even if it means shutting down bloomnet during their "promotion" or even before.

 

[lori042499]

Anyone with 1800 get a message stating they are doing a promotion for the week of Vday for 20% off for their customers for delivery dates on Mon thru Wed. and they want the FLORIST to take 10% less on the order?????

I have not seen this message, I have been home with the flu all week. My mom (the owner) just called me and told me about it. She got the message yesterday. She called the number on the message that says to call if you have any questions. She asked the women if this was mandatory. She first said no, So my mom asked how to opt out of it. She was put on hold and then was told that in fact it IS mandatory. My mom said she would not do it. She was again put on hold and evidentally got the voice mail to our rep. (who is useless!!, always says "oh, that's not me, you have to call...") Anyway, she left her a message that we will NOT do the 10% even if it means shutting down bloomnet during their "promotion" or even before.

They do this every year...they usually mark up the bouquets 20% and then take 10% from you. You will actually get more. They also give you a portion of the extra delivery charge on V-day deliveries that they surcharge. The number of people that take advantage of this deal is relatively small anywho. Not too many people want their flowers early. I would rather they do this and give me more room for 100% orders on the day anyway..

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

They do this every year...they usually mark up the bouquets 20% and then take 10% from you. You will actually get more. They also give you a portion of the extra delivery charge on V-day deliveries that they surcharge. The number of people that take advantage of this deal is relatively small anywho. Not too many people want their flowers early. I would rather they do this and give me more room for 100% orders on the day anyway..

Same old tricks...

They started this a few years ago, and if memory serves, was only valid on certain items, and usually the price of those items was in the 59.99 & up range. Don't know about the extra mark up...never saw that when we were in...maybe something new?

No matter how you look at it, it's about a 37% discounted order.

You all want that???

- H.

BTW - when we "opted out" of it, we were scorned. Our V-day 800 biz dropped 22% that year. The following year we DID participate, but like Lori said, very few customers took the deal... I call it as I see it...

 

[lori042499]

Same old tricks...

They started this a few years ago, and if memory serves, was only valid on certain items, and usually the price of those items was in the 59.99 & up range. Don't know about the extra mark up...never saw that when we were in...maybe something new?

No matter how you look at it, it's about a 37% discounted order.

You all want that???

- H.

BTW - when we "opted out" of it, we were scorned. Our V-day 800 biz dropped 22% that year. The following year we DID participate, but like Lori said, very few customers took the deal... I call it as I see it...

For me, this is the biggest reason I go along with it. They do punish you and the money I take in from those orders helps my business. The volume makes me able to buy with better prices and makes my existing deliveries more profitable. If I do not play 800-flowers game, I may as well drop them because they will then be too expensive to carry. I am well aware that some do not agree with this method of thinking, but if your in it, you may as well play to win it.

 

[ladyinc]

Drop 1-800?

I recently have been contemplating dropping Bloomnet. I am very frustrated dealing with them since they will send me an order AGAIN & AGAIN that I just refused or the lack of knowledge or competence that their phone operators have. Last year, I kept track of the $ amounts that I filled and the $ amounts that I actually received and I figured that I only have been receiving about 35% of the total after fees. Now, they have a new $30.00 "low-sending" fee that they are hitting me with. (I am the ONLY florist in my area that fills for them) I have a TF POS system and probably never will send with them because the other is just so much more convenient and captures all my sending information. My customers have grown to expect that I will charge their credit card I have on file...they dont have to think about it. That being said, is there anyone who has some advice on dropping them?
Much Thanks!

 

[Carrieann]

we are also thinking about dropping them. For the same reasons you stated and more. They have become just so impossible to deal with. We DO send out with them and with teleflora. We have always made sure we sent out the min. orders they require us to so we don't get a charge for not sending. They just starting charging us with a $50 low sending fee. When asked about this they said that is because they changed their policy, now your number of outgoings is based EACH MONTH on your number of incomings!! We also questioned the $50 instead of the $30 it has been in the past when we didn't meet the correct outgoing number. They said the higher incomings you get, the more outgoings you need to do, AND the HIGHER the $ for NOT meeting their outgoing #!!!!! ARGGGG!!!!!!

Sorry for ranting, I don't usually slam on ws's they have just become so unreasonable!!

 

[Carrieann]

Oh, yeah, forgot to answer your question....

When we looked at our paperwork for how to get out it stated that all we need to do is give them 30 days notice. I have a feeling though it sounds easier than it will be...

 

[ladyinc]

If I drop them, they will be stuck for someone in my area, so I feel bad about that, but losing more $ is not on my agenda for 2008!!

Sorry that you are experiencing the same, but thanks for the reply!

 

[lizzie ann]

took me 6mo to finally get off of their membership. numerous e-mails,two certified letters. Finally in december they sent a priority mail letter daying it was all taken care of. Yesterday in the mail.....I recieved the member catalog! go figure.

We do direct orders for any florist that calls, and will either do a billing or credit card and give them a discount for calling us. It can work. I have survived and thrived for 15 yrs (minus 6mo of bloomnet) with out a wire service. If you have your customers c.c you can even call and pace the order for them and just charge a small fee for the phone call. you can survive without a wire service.

 

[CHR]

They just starting charging us with a $50 low sending fee. When asked about this they said that is because they changed their policy, now your number of outgoings is based EACH MONTH on your number of incomings!! We also questioned the $50 instead of the $30 it has been in the past when we didn't meet the correct outgoing number. They said the higher incomings you get, the more outgoings you need to do, AND the HIGHER the $ for NOT meeting their outgoing #!!!!! ARGGGG!!!!!!

Carrieann, it will always be unequal sending for all but a few. 1-800 sends but does not fill. BloomsUSA/FST sends but does not fill. That's millions of orders a year in incomings for US florists that have no matching outgoings.

Like other WSs, the only way to really avoid the 'unequal sending' (unless you are a large sender or very meticulous about tracking ins and outs) is to become a 'puree'. Of course, that's what they'd like most. Quit their competitors and the penalties go away.

It's just a back-door way to limit competition.

If I drop them, they will be stuck for someone in my area, so I feel bad about that, but losing more $ is not on my agenda for 2008!!

If you are a member of TF, you'll get the order anyway as long as you're the only florist in the area. 1-800 uses TF in areas where they have no members. Same orders, no extra dues.

And remember, 1-800 is selling on their behalf, not yours. You didn't ask them to represent your company and then offer them a 30% cut. They told you you could buy orders from them for .70 on the dollar.

It's not your problem if their orders aren't filled in your area. Remember - If they had another shop to use, they could are less if you were in business.

 

[Eric S]

Ahh yes. The famous bloomnet message with no warning just weeks away from Valentines Week to its newly found members.

Seems like yesterday I was screaming at our rep saying what gives you the right to sell roses at such a ridiculous price?

One year later we sent them our notice and never looked back.

Give them this Valentines day. Fill 50 of their discounted orders. Realize that after the phones have been ringing all day on FEB 13th that you cannot take anymore of your own customers orders. As your hands are tired from cleaning the roses and your brain is fried from maping your drivers out, You ask yourself why the heck am I selling roses to 1800 flowers for such little money?

We have all gone through it and that’s why your here talking about it looking for the same answers we all looked for.

Welcome to flowerchat!!! And yes your the reason why 1800flowers is still in business.

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Quote of the day!!

Give them this Valentines day. Fill 50 of their discounted orders. Realize that after the phones have been ringing all day on FEB 13th that you cannot take anymore of your own customers orders. As your hands are tired from cleaning the roses and your brain is fried from maping your drivers out, You ask yourself why the heck am I selling roses to 1800 flowers for such little money?

What else can I say....nut'n!

 

[MANORVILLE]

Irony

Ahh yes. The famous bloomnet message with no warning just weeks away from Valentines Week to its newly found members.

Seems like yesterday I was screaming at our rep saying what gives you the right to sell roses at such a ridiculous price?

One year later we sent them our notice and never looked back.

Give them this Valentines day. Fill 50 of their discounted orders. Realize that after the phones have been ringing all day on FEB 13th that you cannot take anymore of your own customers orders. As your hands are tired from cleaning the roses and your brain is fried from maping your drivers out, You ask yourself why the heck am I selling roses to 1800 flowers for such little money?

We have all gone through it and that’s why your here talking about it looking for the same answers we all looked for.

Welcome to flowerchat!!! And yes your the reason why 1800flowers is still in business.

Hey Eric,

Good post and much truth.

The only thing that concerns me is the quote above about shops that still "partner" with 800, being the reason they are still in business. It's so much more involved than just that.

Everyone knows where I'm at with my views and opinions on the issues of WS and og's, but hear me out for just a sec.....

Independance is a wonderful thing but should we alienate small shops that have been pulled into the mix, thinking they might be able to survive as members of a WS/s ? Many shops would not survive at all and their investment would be gone. Many cannot afford to absorb such a loss, so, they forge forward, praying for the day it may change.
Those that have found FC have a much better chance than most to listen and learn about the alternatives and everything else that can help them achieve that independance, but still, it takes time for change.

Does it suck ? You know it !
We all know it, but understanding the big picture makes us stand out in the crowd.
The small shops joining FC need help and advice and something to hold onto. I know, I take calls almost everyday from owners that are going down river without a paddle. If some of them, actually most that I've spoken to cut their ties, they are done,,,,,do not pass go......., so what are they to do ?

Until a better option is presented they must continue association with them, and I cannot in good faith pass judgement on them for that.
They're trying to make a living just like the rest of us right ?

I make as much time as I can to try to give the best advice I can manage, and I owe a lot to FC members for helping me to put things in proper perspective.
When the day comes that the solution becomes reachable I'll be standing there with the rest, but I'm hoping that a lot of the Mom and Pops will be there as well.

Many will say that lots of shops are going down in the next year or two and that will be good for our end of the business. Of course, that is true, but many others have a chance to survive if they feel that they are not outcasted for being part of a WS, and can learn how make the right moves.

Everything takes time, and IMHO 2008 is the time, but can it happen, or will we be here next year, and the year after, saying the same thing, after even more ground has been lost?

In closing, as the smaller shops are guilty of enabling the WS, then so am I.
Not proud but not ashamed, but making a living, which is what I'm here to do, and I'll take my lumps, until the day comes that it doesn't work for me or someone comes up with the right alternative.
No-one can expect people to change without that alternative.


Humbly,

Kevin

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

Give them this Valentines day. Fill 50 of their discounted orders. Realize that after the phones have been ringing all day on FEB 13th that you cannot take anymore of your own customers orders. As your hands are tired from cleaning the roses and your brain is fried from maping your drivers out, You ask yourself why the heck am I selling roses to 1800 flowers for such little money?

We have all gone through it and that’s why your here talking about it looking for the same answers we all looked for.

Welcome to flowerchat!!! And yes your the reason why 1800flowers is still in business.

Well said, and the prime reason why we dropped them. Florists thick-headed? Nahh...only took us 9 years to figure it all out...

- H.

 

[bloomz]

[/b]
Hey Eric,

Good post and much truth.

The only thing that concerns me is the quote above about shops that still "partner" with 800, being the reason they are still in business. It's so much more involved than just that.

Everyone knows where I'm at with my views and opinions on the issues of WS and og's, but hear me out for just a sec.....

Independance is a wonderful thing but should we alienate small shops that have been pulled into the mix, thinking they might be able to survive as members of a WS/s ? Many shops would not survive at all and their investment would be gone. Many cannot afford to absorb such a loss, so, they forge forward, praying for the day it may change.
Those that have found FC have a much better chance than most to listen and learn about the alternatives and everything else that can help them achieve that independance, but still, it takes time for change.

Does it suck ? You know it !
We all know it, but understanding the big picture makes us stand out in the crowd.
The small shops joining FC need help and advice and something to hold onto. I know, I take calls almost everyday from owners that are going down river without a paddle. If some of them, actually most that I've spoken to cut their ties, they are done,,,,,do not pass go......., so what are they to do ?

Until a better option is presented they must continue association with them, and I cannot in good faith pass judgement on them for that.
They're trying to make a living just like the rest of us right ?

I make as much time as I can to try to give the best advice I can manage, and I owe a lot to FC members for helping me to put things in proper perspective.
When the day comes that the solution becomes reachable I'll be standing there with the rest, but I'm hoping that a lot of the Mom and Pops will be there as well.

Many will say that lots of shops are going down in the next year or two and that will be good for our end of the business. Of course, that is true, but many others have a chance to survive if they feel that they are not outcasted for being part of a WS, and can learn how make the right moves.

Everything takes time, and IMHO 2008 is the time, but can it happen, or will we be here next year, and the year after, saying the same thing, after even more ground has been lost?

In closing, as the smaller shops are guilty of enabling the WS, then so am I.
Not proud but not ashamed, but making a living, which is what I'm here to do, and I'll take my lumps, until the day comes that it doesn't work for me or someone comes up with the right alternative.
No-one can expect people to change without that alternative.


Humbly,

Kevin

Simply excellent and eloquently stated. You sure you're not some kind of college professor? I'm afraid we're gonna have to see your motorcycle registration sir.

 

[Jerry]

Kevin,

Your way of putting all those thoughts down on paper are all fine and dandy, and nicely done.

Example, why it's not a good idea to throw bad money after bad results, waiting for the white knight on the horse.

I've helped many florists go over their WS statements, most have never even worried to do a P/L statement on anything let alone on the WS. The last one I helped, pluged the numbers in and wala, she lost $2700 for the year belonging to Tel. There was no selling needed on my part, but it still took her 8 mths to write her resignation letter, why, I have no clue. So for the 8 mths she lost more money, maybe waiting for that white knight.

The system will never change if INDEPENDENT business owners won't change.
Year after year after year, we, on these boards have hashed this out till there really is nothing to talk about. The florists on these boards have been there done that, on every part of trying to stay profitable with the WS, and way smarter then I. I was and will never be a big sender, so that makes me a filler, if I was still in the GAME. Florists on this board "were" filling florists and some still are. But their outgoing still justifies their incoming. Last I heard if you don't send 4-5 outgoing to 1 incoming it's very hard to see a positive P/L on the WS. I never let it get that far into my biz to really find that out, and I'm sure some will say thats bs. But they will be the big senders saying it.

So if these florists you've talked to are not outgoing minded and their going to wait for a white knight, a savior, and fill away. Than...........

Bloomzie thanks you for keeping those florists hanging on for a while longer.

 

[MANORVILLE]

Thanks Jerry,

Got some good points in there.
White Knights moved to an island somewhere and are sippin tropical drinks so they'll be no help for anyone.

....outgoing minded.................AGREED ! Or else !

Been on the phone all day making some hefty changes with my "associates ".
Hasn't been pretty as you can imagine but I do have a
somewhat WTF attitude at times. Today was one of those days ....on steroids !
Still have the handcuffs on but once they're off ManorMan's gonna have a lot to say. Gonna send Kevin on vacation for about a month !

 

[Chezbloom]

"The system will never change if INDEPENDENT business owners won't change."

Right on funk soul brother! and the only ones sippin tropical drinks on an island somewhere are the big senders and WS themselves. This forum is the ONLY place I feel safe saying that because the TF, FTD and Bloomnet 1800, shops here in town are very defensive if you question the profitabilty of WS membership. Most would NEVER quit their WS and many have all three. Sigh......

 

[Eric S]

I know I have said this so many times. So I appoligize for repeating it.

I was scared as heck calling up FTD first and telling them I didn't want their 100 orders every month from them anymore.

800 was next and they thought I was crazy telling them that i jsut can't make enough money on their orders. So see ya 200 incoming orders every month.

But what it made me do was think more like a consumer and try to think of how to get my attention as a consumer. What did I need to do to climb up on my soap box and say hey look at me.

I think that is the real drive for any business. When i think of how I Marketed my business inside and outside of the shop during those times I realized that I was just being lazy waiting for the customers to find me.

Sure I have made some BIG marketing mistakes since then but learning from those mistakes is what makes our business decisions that much better.

I may not ever become as big as Beneva or Kemp but I know that our business survives on its own and its because of my own decissions that i make. The thirst to make it better then before still drives me every single day and I think thats what gives us the edge. Oh yea and that little thing called a website. But hey I still needed to be motivated to learn and create that beast.

 

[MANORVILLE]

Excellent post Eric !
Hope it is well read by many.

Kevin