a bit of good news from FTD - controversy invited

[bloomz]

Here's something coming that I'm sure opinions will vary on...but mine are - this is one little bit of good news.

I heard this today and I verified it with our RVP from FTD.

Florists are soon to be held financially responsible for mishandled orders.

IE:

If an order can't be filled it must be rejected within 2 hours. If not they will be fined $10.

24 hours the fine will go to $20.

Reject after delivery date and they will be fined double the cost of the order.

This money will not line FTD's pockets (except for their own gazillion orders) but will go back to the sending shop.

In the case of non delivery after delivery date the double cost is to cover giving back the customers money and still sending their flowers for them, a very good practice to help retain customers.

Now, I can hear the varying opinions now, and I know who this will benefit.

The sending florist, whoever that may be, FTD, or you or me.

Who else? The flower buying public.

What else? The industry we love.

And who this will hurt? Incompetent florists who don't take every flower order with the seriousness of the emotional message the buyer was trying to send?

Yup, and if it hurts them enough they fold - great. I mean that. There's way too many substandard florists out there and our industry can use a good and thorough weeding out of them. The bad apples are spoiling the whole bushel.

Misguided florists who think there's some kind of civil disobedience in sabotaging order gatherers orders?

Yup

I know I'm going to be accused of being some kind of FTD cheerleader - I am unequivocally not, but even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then, and this is a very good plan, IMO.

I could be wrong about minor details, it is now being formulated and a letter will be coming out around June 1.


Now for something completely different:

bloomz is going to post something very controversial:

My good friend Gfloral and I were brainstorming today and discussing this, and it bears sharing.

Whether we like it or not - 800TFTD are HUGE representatives of our industry. They have the Lion's share of flower orders and purchasing consumers.

When they have orders that fail, get skimmed, not delivered or dissatisfied with poor design quality, freshness, or service, our entire industry gets a black eye, and consumers are turned off to what?

800TFTD?

No

Buying flowers.

I admit to personally getting some misguided satisfaction at their poor poor lousyass consumer satisfaction ratings.

Yes I said misguided.

Those ratings reflect on us all as an industry, and our product. And the reliability of our product as a gifting choice.

There's nothing to rejoice about when they fail to deliver what they promise, right or wrong. What are we rejoicing, our own demise?

Cutting our noses off to spite their faces? Dumb, really really dumb.

I got bad news for you - most and I really mean virtually all of the time, failures are not blamed on "the Mother Ship" but on individual filling florists - our industry. I personally can't count how many times, when we have had a failure to deliver properly on an outgoing wire - the buyer has stated "I know this is not your fault" to which I have always responded "Yes it is, it's our responsibility to deal with only competent florists on your behalf, and we take this very seriously." At Valentine's Day we ate a $235 order, refunded and replaced (out of our pocket) the order, just one example. It really was my fault - the guy ordered a big order late, mid-day VD, and the quality shops I have marked preferred in that city all refused it, so I chose an untested one that was thrilled to have the order, but failed to get it there on time. I really don't know yet if we saved him as a customer or not, but I doubt it. The filling shop should have had to pay for it, but I chalked it up to experience, since I should have told him, sorry, you ordered too late. He was sending a big one to his girlfriend and small ones for all the other girls in her office. Would have been an awesome emotional statement had it come off. But I failed him, thanks to me choosing an incompetent shop that didn't know they were over capacity.

Could this be one reason so much of the public is moving over to drop shipped flowers and PF is having such a great run? I venture that every dollar spent on drop shipped flowers is a dollar that used to be spent on florist flowers.

Civil disobedience against bad government is one thing that is almost morally required, but this is an industry - not a government. Buying flowers isn't mandatory like paying taxes is, darn it.

I've read from time to time of some that think sitting on orders and purposely rejecting them too late to get filled is some kind of blow against order gatherers, it's not - what it really is, is dumber than shiit.

How to rebuild or at least slow the loss of consumer confidence? Well this plan is a start on that path.

Now if we could just get the next step in my mind of which I am a huge proponent - mandatory delivery confirmations. I feel that until an order is confirmed delivered - it shouldn't be paid for.

On a local basis, our POS system won't let us settle the credit card unless it has been marked delivered - it kicks them out of out batch at the end of the day. (we settle by delivery date, not order date, which I think is a very good thing, having previously had a system that batched by order date).

OK I got a rating 9 flame suit, and I know controversy will abound about this move, so go for it.

Flame on :icon15

cuz I know how...

opinions vary

here's to the future of our industry :thumbsup

all blessings






the floor is now open for discussion

 

[Connie]

Well, Bloomzie, there is hardly anyone whose opinion I respect more than you, unless it is GFloral, and he and I were discussing this same thing yesterday. I certainly do agree that when any order is mishandled, it unfortunately reflects on all of us. I'm a bit leery of trusting FTD, but I do like the idea that the sending florist will receive these fines.

 

[Jerry]

I love it, wip them into shape.

And if they don't get in line then, we will just reach into their account and take it. Sort of has a familiar ring to it.

I'm so, so, so happy I'm an INDEPENDENT s.o.b, business person. My wish in life is that everyone in this industry could feel this good. Roses do have a smell, you just need to slow down long enough to smell them.

 

[BOSS]

Heh he heh

Yo...Jon....

I agree, that is good news...think I'll ask Abner to build an auto-REJECT function...

This move by FTD will help build the boycott by getting florists to simply reject orders out of hand without thinking if the order is fillable or not, like when the "mother ship" pushes orders into shops below codified minimums...:thumbsup

 

[sfox]

bloomz

Bloomz, the idea that the consumer who has a bad experience using one of the Og's gives a black mark to the entire industry is not new.

And while the statement is true that many consumers quit buying flowers because of their bad experiences, the solutions to the problem are varied and in reality are never going to happen until the financial equation is fixed.

What FTD is trying to do with their new policy, is most likely going to backfire. If I use my shop as the example I can point out the problems they will face.

My shop does not fill OG's orders ever. Most of the time the OG's realize this and the order never comes our way. But at the peak times, many times they send us orders. We reject immediately. But many times, that same order pops up again. Our attitude is that we have done our part in a very professional manner, but the OG's didn't follow thru on their part. The order is then just laid in the problem order stack and our staff resumes taking care of real orders both from our customers and wire in orders from real florists. The idea that I should have to pay for them not doing their job, is silly.

And on this board we all know that filling orders is not where the money is made. Adding more costs to the filler is not going to improve quality.

FTD is attempting to force florists to fill OG's orders that the florist does not want to fill or does not have the ability to fill. What I see is that FTD will force many more to leave. It is very easy to place blame when a order goes bad when you are the sender. All you have had to do is sit behind a computer keyboard. But the filler has to deal with flower availibility problems, labor constraints, delivery capacity limitations and by imposing financial penalities which makes an already bad situation worse will not solve the problem. If anything it will make matters worse. The result most likely will be that more Mercurys will be shut off at peak times and more flower buying consumers will be disappointed.

 

[RJD]

I think the details of this need to be explored a little more. There needs to be a last minute order definition, after which the fines don't apply. For instance, if I send an order Thursday AM for Thursday delivery, the reject past due date shouldn't be enforced. The two hour one certainly needs to be enforced, though.

Also, delivery times shouldn't be a factor. Can't guarantee delivery times.

How about time zones? You're open until 6pm Oregon time, which is 9pm PA time. Don't be sending me things at 4pm your time (6pm our time, 1 hour after we close) and expect a 2 hour rejection. You would still have time to contact another shop, but we don't have the order.

Also, I think there needs to be a standing "block orders from code number" function, where I could permanently block FU Florists and other OGs.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

On the surface it's a good plan, to seek some accountability from the delivering shops who are lazy or incompetent.

How would this affect advance orders? Sending shop sends order a week ahead, or 2 days ahead, whatever. Product ends up not being available, or recip is out of town, or moved, or a zillion other non-florist related scenarios that lead to non-delivery. REJ would be at a penalty, or a CAN would cost $$ as well? A good plan, but ultimately something that seems to be truly only to benefit dOG's, who sometimes make unreasonable promises to customers. It would force small shops to pay a lot more attention to that order spitting machine, and not just stack up the paper till the day-of.

As for the FTD/800/TF being the "image" of florists - I understand the point, and see it in many industries where a sweeping generalization is made based on a few. Lawyers, doctors, politicians. Interesting comparision, one I have to think about, later.

 

[bloomz]

Geez you guys are up early! I just got up for a drink of water

I'm a bit leery of trusting FTD

Who the heck said I trust them??? LOL

We reject immediately. But many times, that same order pops up again. Our attitude is that we have done our part in a very professional manner, but the OG's didn't follow thru on their part. The order is then just laid in the problem order stack and our staff resumes taking care of real orders both from our customers and wire in orders from real florists. The idea that I should have to pay for them not doing their job, is silly.

They totally will have to fix that problem of resending orders previously rejected I agree - the autoforwarding deal need some intelligence built into it. I hate that autoforwarding anyway.

FTD is attempting to force florists to fill OG's orders that the florist does not want to fill or does not have the ability to fill. What I see is that FTD will force many more to leave. It is very easy to place blame when a order goes bad when you are the sender. All you have had to do is sit behind a computer keyboard. But the filler has to deal with flower availibility problems, labor constraints, delivery capacity limitations and by imposing financial penalities which makes an already bad situation worse will not solve the problem. If anything it will make matters worse. The result most likely will be that more Mercurys will be shut off at peak times and more flower buying consumers will be disappointed.

I don't see that at all, no one forces anyone to fill anything, ever. If more shops leave because of it, it won't break my heart. Maybe we'll get rid of some of the dumb ones that still think they get paid 100% on incoming or they can deduct the 27% off the top? Or - the ones dumb enough to think they HAVE to fill anything. Soenen has always considered 1/3 of their membership to be expendable anyway and Bad Bobby thought they could get by with 8000 members.

I think the details of this need to be explored a little more. There needs to be a last minute order definition, after which the fines don't apply. For instance, if I send an order Thursday AM for Thursday delivery, the reject past due date shouldn't be enforced. The two hour one certainly needs to be enforced, though.

Also, delivery times shouldn't be a factor. Can't guarantee delivery times.

How about time zones? You're open until 6pm Oregon time, which is 9pm PA time. Don't be sending me things at 4pm your time (6pm our time, 1 hour after we close) and expect a 2 hour rejection. You would still have time to contact another shop, but we don't have the order.

Also, I think there needs to be a standing "block orders from code number" function, where I could permanently block FU Florists and other OGs.

Totally - like I said I don't know the minor details - just the program outline. I'm still hoping they also include mandatory delivery confirmations and have spoken to several of them, including Soenen about this. He seems to me to think he has that covered by selling everbody Mercury technology but we all know that ain't gonna be the end all. MAS has done automatic decons for many many years now - it was their idea.

Didn't Dove have that blocking feature? MAS does.

We'll have to see how it washes out - but it's a great start and maybe the good part of what the new owners are going to do to "revitalize" blah blah blah.

Okay, back to bed.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

Didn't Dove have that blocking feature?

Yes - our DNS list grows at each holiday. Occasionally, an order still comes through from "blocked" codes. I don't think it's foolproof, but it definitely helps.

 

[wrdlady47]

I have to disagree. What I see happening if FTD holding orders, sending them a day or two before the actual holiday when small shops with limited staff are rushing around to get things done. This isn't a way to punish the bad shops it's a way for ftd to make money off the overworked/understaffed florists. Every Florist pays a "quality florist" fee for FTD to elimiante bad florists. For all the years we have been paying them & TF, there should be no "bad florists" to send to.

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Quote of the day!!

I have to disagree. What I see happening if FTD holding orders, sending them a day or two before the actual holiday when small shops with limited staff are rushing around to get things done. This isn't a way to punish the bad shops it's a way for ftd to make money off the overworked/understaffed florists. Every Florist pays a "quality florist" fee for FTD to elimiante bad florists. For all the years we have been paying them & TF, there should be no "bad florists" to send to.

WOO HOO.....DING DING DING...

Can't believe I did not think of that one!

 

[Luc]

Why should the filling florist pay again for even 1-800TFTD mistakes?

Those same compagnies brought that on themselves when they signed up any tom , dick or harry. If FTD kept the quality assurance in signing up shops they would have not any problem.
I see this as another way to get more money.
I thought quality assurance is to cover things like that.
How about their mistake? Who pay for that when they send orders your way to late for delivery? or low price items? or mispelled addressed or location or dates etc.
Will they fined themselves? No! they will find a way to blame it on the florist which in term will pay again.

If they want better control on their orders they need to eliminate those poor florist. Not all shop can respond to an order in a timely fashion. Some are small and not well organized as you and me.

I had a problem about one month a go with an outgoing order.
Sent the order to an florist in another town.
Florist delivered after school hours. staff not there. SHe had the wrong times
Phone her the next day. she was going to upgrade arr.
Item not delivered. I forget what happen.
Tried a third time and was delivered.

What I Did at my end was to refund my customer the whole order.
Save the customer, we had a good laugh about it and she is fine with it.

SO Like I said...we are already paying a feee for this service.
Luc

 

[CHR]

I am slammed today and don't have time to properly get into this. A couple quick thoughts:

Every penalty is directed to the fulfillment side. Where's the list of penalties spelled-out-by-the-dollars for:
- skimming delivery & product dollars on the sending side
- senders failing to reply to price increase and substitution requests in a timely fashion (and this especially includes the big OGs)
- sellers who deceive consumers about geographic location to gain the orders
- seller who lie about providing free vases or free delivery to gain orders.
- sellers who send to a shop below their minimums and/or send codified products to shops who aren't codified.

Every V Day and Mother's Day consumers rant about not being able to get through to 800TFTD customer service to find out the status of their orders. Wait times vary from hours to DAYS, yet all three still have reps who quickly answer the phones to take MORE orders.

They choose to put their resources in sales and not customer service.

You want reasons for the industry black eyes? Then look at the business model, the marketing methods and distorted 'rewards' schemes first before whipping even harder on hard working local florists.

 

[VJD]

.
Every Florist pays a "quality florist" fee for FTD to eliminate bad florists. For all the years we have been paying them & TF, there should be no "bad florists" to send to.
.

Brilliant point!
.

 

[CHR]

How would this affect advance orders? Sending shop sends order a week ahead, or 2 days ahead, whatever. Product ends up not being available, or recip is out of town, or moved, or a zillion other non-florist related scenarios that lead to non-delivery.

Oh yeah -
What about addressing all these other customer service costs that have long been absorbed by filling florists -

- a 50% order value fee for providing an incorrect addresses that is later cancelled due to the recipient actually being out of the delivery area
- a $10 'information correction fee' for wrong and/or incomplete addresses (That's the going rate at FedEx)
- a $5 fee for failing to provide a recipient phone number
- require the selling florist to provide the patient's hospital room and verify they can receive flowers. If the patient has been discharged when the filling florist arrives at the hospital, a 50% fee is assessed the seller.
- require the selling florist to provide the hotel guest's correct information and verify they are registered at the hotel. If the guest can't be found "in house" or has checked out, a 50% fee is assessed the seller.
- require the selling florist to provide the precise funeral service information including complete address and visitation hours. If the service information is incomplete or incorrect, a $10 'information correction fee' or a 50% cancellation fee is assessed the seller.

Again, I'm all for raising the bar on quality and customer service, but the expense needs to be borne by sellers and fillers.

 

[nonbitter]

What's that old saying...if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck.

The only ones that are going to take a hit is you. There is scheme behind this that will generate $$$ for FTD. Bet on it. Like someone said you are already paying for some form of quality assurance why pay more?

 

[Bigted]

Ted's post of the day

I am slammed today and don't have time to properly get into this. A couple quick thoughts:

Every penalty is directed to the fulfillment side. Where's the list of penalties spelled-out-by-the-dollars for:
- skimming delivery & product dollars on the sending side
- senders failing to reply to price increase and substitution requests in a timely fashion (and this especially includes the big OGs)
- sellers who deceive consumers about geographic location to gain the orders
- seller who lie about providing free vases or free delivery to gain orders.
- sellers who send to a shop below their minimums and/or send codified products to shops who aren't codified.

Every V Day and Mother's Day consumers rant about not being able to get through to 800TFTD customer service to find out the status of their orders. Wait times vary from hours to DAYS, yet all three still have reps who quickly answer the phones to take MORE orders.

They choose to put their resources in sales and not customer service.

You want reasons for the industry black eyes? Then look at the business model, the marketing methods and distorted 'rewards' schemes first before whipping even harder on hard working local florists.

Great points.

 

[wrdlady47]

I think one of the reasons they may have come up with this "brilliant" idea is possibly the "rebel florist" will hold off rejecting an order from an "OG" until the last minute preventing the "og" from getting the order delivered.
Think about it. How many "real" florists send "unfillable" underpriced orders. I really only see this benefitting "ogs". Besides, where in this policy does it mention the benefit to the consumer? They're only concern is their product is delivered on the right date and for their preceived value of it.

 

[keith]

Floating $$$???

I may be cynical but.....somehow I don't see FTD letting all those service fees float through them without them getting something. A percentage?

That said I still like the idea of holding people accountable for their poor performance. Yesterday I got a call from a shop that were telling me they were rejecting an order the received on April 23rd for delivery on the 26th for a birthday! (What makes it even worse is they are a MAS user!) I am afraid I "lost patience" with them, they could not see what the problem was.
They said they "Tried to reject it but got an error message" I asked "Why did you not call then?" and they could not tell me.
If this would be what the "Fee" would hammer I have to admit I would be like the donkey in Shrek....."Pick me! Pick me!"

The bottom line is that most real florists who operate as a "business" will not be effected by this other than being reimbursed for what we are paying out of our own pocket now for excellent customer service. If FTD takes a cut of the $$ they will doom the plan before it starts. I already pay membership fees and QA fees.

Good thread Jon, but i don't think it's as controversial as maybe you think.

 

[inferno63]

Why should the filling florist pay again for even 1-800TFTD mistakes?

Those same compagnies brought that on themselves when they signed up any tom , dick or harry. If FTD kept the quality assurance in signing up shops they would have not any problem.
I see this as another way to get more money.
I thought quality assurance is to cover things like that.
How about their mistake? Who pay for that when they send orders your way to late for delivery? or low price items? or mispelled addressed or location or dates etc.
Will they fined themselves? No! they will find a way to blame it on the florist which in term will pay again.

If they want better control on their orders they need to eliminate those poor florist. Not all shop can respond to an order in a timely fashion. Some are small and not well organized as you and me.

I had a problem about one month a go with an outgoing order.
Sent the order to an florist in another town.
Florist delivered after school hours. staff not there. SHe had the wrong times
Phone her the next day. she was going to upgrade arr.
Item not delivered. I forget what happen.
Tried a third time and was delivered.

What I Did at my end was to refund my customer the whole order.
Save the customer, we had a good laugh about it and she is fine with it.

SO Like I said...we are already paying a feee for this service.
Luc

The reason they sign up anyone is because they NEED them. To the folks here that believe that the WS bandits don't need local florists to do business and that they will thrive without us, bull-dinky! They have people and whole departments dedicated to recruiting and maintaining real florists. Heck, darn, they call me 3 times a week! They couldn't give a good poopie if they are quality florists or not. The dollar bills look the same to them even if Bigfoot designed and delivered the flowers. They just brainstormed an idea to get the real florists to pay for their business design flaws. And....horror of horrors...they will continue to find real florists to pay them. They may eventually open their own stores and drop ship everything but that is down the road because they have real florists to run their slave shops....why invest and fix something that isn't broken? That "quality assurance" fee is just another dollar in their pocket dressed up in a pretty name.

I agree with Luc here....their logic doesn't jive. Either drop the "fee" and sign up Bigfoot and all his forest friends or get rid of the poor florists causing the problem.

Phew...I feel better. By the way, I am officially WS free now! Woohoo!