A new take on Sending only shops

[carol]

Got a letter from Jacques (Manchester NH) today talking about being an FTD only shop for over 30 years.. after doing an analysis he finds that "the wire service florist model is broken. The receiving florist can not make a profit if he/she fills the order to full value-no way, no how!"

No news there.. but here is the catch...after going through a page of reasons why it is no longer profitable to fill orders he says
"As of November 1, 2007, we will no longer be an FTD flower shop to receive your orders"

Ok... but guess what??? he changed his shop listing with FTD to SENDING STATUS ONLY.. He is not dropping FTD.. he is only dropping the unprofitable (to him) part of FTd....So he is going to continue sending orders through FTD receiving the 20% comm. and his large rebate (and going on top 100 trips when he qualifies as a top sender)

So after explaining just how bad the wire service is , he is more than happy to send all the rest of us real florists these unprofitable orders but HE WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT THEM from us. He expects us to share the burden of filling incoming orders but he will not do the same for us in his town.
Being a smart man Paul enclosed an application form to allow us to send him orders and charge them to a credit card if we should like to send our orders to him and then he will fill them for us

So he will take advantage of other shops to fill his orders (and make money for himself) but he will have no part of repaying the service (favor or whatever).

How do you all feel about this?? and I wonder.. sending only florists usually have a special merc # easily noticed and refused by us.. will his code number reflect this change of status or will he slide under the radar not be noticed as a dog??? Although he is a b&m shop (2 shops really) what use is he to us.. just another dog taking 'his share' of the profits and to heck with the industry.
I guess alls fair in love & war & florist shops.

Seems a little underhanded though to me.. if you believe something is unfair a more honest approach would be to just get out altogether..
OH OH I forgot then he would lose his 20% comm. high rebate and free trips as a top sender. Stupid me!!

 

[Bigted]

I don't know Carol. I guess I don't see it the same as you. Why do I care if he takes orders from FTD? If he doesn't, someone else will. He is a real florist that is making decisions in order to keep his shop going and profitable. In fact, I think it's pretty clever. In the coming days, the economic downturn will force many of us to make similar decisions. I don't think this is the same as someone who started this business with only a computer and an office.

 

[lori042499]

Got a letter from Jacques (Manchester NH) today talking about being an FTD only shop for over 30 years.. after doing an analysis he finds that "the wire service florist model is broken. The receiving florist can not make a profit if he/she fills the order to full value-no way, no how!"

No news there.. but here is the catch...after going through a page of reasons why it is no longer profitable to fill orders he says
"As of November 1, 2007, we will no longer be an FTD flower shop to receive your orders"

Ok... but guess what??? he changed his shop listing with FTD to SENDING STATUS ONLY.. He is not dropping FTD.. he is only dropping the unprofitable (to him) part of FTd....So he is going to continue sending orders through FTD receiving the 20% comm. and his large rebate (and going on top 100 trips when he qualifies as a top sender)

So after explaining just how bad the wire service is , he is more than happy to send all the rest of us real florists these unprofitable orders but HE WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT THEM from us. He expects us to share the burden of filling incoming orders but he will not do the same for us in his town.
Being a smart man Paul enclosed an application form to allow us to send him orders and charge them to a credit card if we should like to send our orders to him and then he will fill them for us

So he will take advantage of other shops to fill his orders (and make money for himself) but he will have no part of repaying the service (favor or whatever).

How do you all feel about this?? and I wonder.. sending only florists usually have a special merc # easily noticed and refused by us.. will his code number reflect this change of status or will he slide under the radar not be noticed as a dog??? Although he is a b&m shop (2 shops really) what use is he to us.. just another dog taking 'his share' of the profits and to heck with the industry.
I guess alls fair in love & war & florist shops.

Seems a little underhanded though to me.. if you believe something is unfair a more honest approach would be to just get out altogether..
OH OH I forgot then he would lose his 20% comm. high rebate and free trips as a top sender. Stupid me!!

This is totally the WS's problem. They allowed this for some and now have to allow it for all. The more people that catch on to this the more broken it will become. This shop should be treated as an OG and if your regularly refuse OG orders than so it is. Why in the world should you pay for a service for sending and receiving and then go and have to use your CC to send this guy your orders as you have a minimum sending that must be met. He is doing nothing wrong just what the WS allow but it is wrong for the ws to allow it. All is fair in love and war, and the WS make it very unfair the more they let sending only shops exist...

 

[BOSS]

If I send, I feel I have to receive...but only Real Florist orders.

I too was offered SFO status...I declined.

 

[bloomz]

If I send, I feel I have to receive...but only Real Florist orders.

Me too, but that's just an emotional (not practical) "feel good ethics" kinda deal for me.

I'm a bit with Ted on this - I'm thinking more and more there will be polarization between senders and fillers, and actually I think it's already there - just not that many are as upfront about it as your friend was (kinda dumb really maybe perhaps?)

Many many moons ago I read an article by a guy in Montana who had been an ex-banker that now owns a big flower shop and it was titled "Incoming vs Outgoing - how do you spell disaster?" which started my tumble to the inequity of it all. As florist to florist orders decline (and they are, big time) many other smart ones will have to figure this out, or become a fulfillment center, or go out of business.

But we know as we've hashed it to death here that there will always be florists who live for incoming, and that's the tune. And there will also be professional florists who use incoming as incremental sales who DO have it figured out as well. The reciprocating model is broken, but the sending and receiving side is alive and well, just splitting perhaps?

Now I wouldn't accept orders from your friend Jacques any more, but guess I'd sort of have to thank him for being so upfront. Or not.

opinions do vary...:itchy:

 

[Eric S]

I would think that if this model continues where we have the smart ones becoming senders only and the filler stations eating it in the shorts that sales would at some point stop climbing.

I mean there is only so much money left and as more fillers try to make ends meet with such a small amount of money coming into the business it would eventually lead to their end.

Talking with some venders today it looks like this summer was the worse for many shops and the number of shops being put for sale is a sign of trouble ahead. I will bet that when this bubble burst it will be fast and if the fillers go the senders won't last that long.

But hey the fed lowered rates and that means someone can continue to borrow the money they need until another sucker comes along and injects new money into that filling station when it is sold.

 

[Tom Carlson]

Sending Only Florist

Just think what the impact would be if the Wire Services no longer allowed Sending Only Florist members.

Am I correct that the SFO started with Teleflora at Military Bases?

SFO is the core of the demise of the Wire Services as they were once conceived to be.

Tom Carlson

 

[bloomz]

I do think you nailed it there Tom. They allowed them in, saw how much they were making, and became them themselves.

 

[BOSS]

I'm thinking more and more there will be polarization between senders and fillers, and actually I think it's already there

I would think that if this model continues where we have the smart ones becoming senders only and the filler stations eating it in the shorts that sales would at some point stop climbing.

The polarization has already begun, in fact, I'm pretty sure it began back in Bad Bobby's day, it's just that now days more florists are wising up faster than they used to, and the word is getting around.

As things progress, the SFO game, will go on, but only to the point where once it grows and spreads across North America, it will begin to feed on itself to the point that there will be more SFO's than the system can handle because there will not be enough fillers in many areas to fill for the SFO's or even the wires for that matter. Remember, to have an SFO you also have to have a FWOAC to receive, the first can not survive without the second.

The inequity of the current system, since it is based on, and controlled by other than true florists, will eventually feed on itself to the point of extinction.

Just look at the first 90 years of order transfer (where the system worked) and compare it to the last even 5 years (where the wheels came of the tracks). The current program can not sustain itself for much longer, too many marginal shops are dying, and going out of business, and while this is sad, the more this happens, the more the remaining shops become stronger and I would bet more informed. Eventually the only shops around will be those that do have a clue, and concentrate on local business.

The wire side of the business is dead already, it's simply that the coroner is out on a smoke break still and has not pronounced the death yet.

 

[VJD]

The wire side of the business is dead already,
it's simply that the coroner is out on a smoke break still
and has not pronounced the death yet.​

.

What a great quote - certainly it should be included in the next revision of any book about the history of American Floristry! (with due credit to da Boss )


Valerie


.

 

[Carrington]

Please

Remember, to have an SFO you also have to have a FWOAC to receive, the first can not survive without the second.

The inequity of the current system, since it is based on, and controlled by other than true florists, will eventually feed on itself to the point of extinction.

The current program can not sustain itself for much longer, too many marginal shops are dying, and going out of business, and while this is sad, the more this happens, the more the remaining shops become stronger and I would bet more informed. Eventually the only shops around will be those that do have a clue, and concentrate on local business.

The wire side of the business is dead already, it's simply that the coroner is out on a smoke break still and has not pronounced the death yet.

May I quote you!? Brilliantly put.

Carrie

 

[BOSS]

May I quote you!? Brilliantly put.

Carrie

You already did

Of course...

 

[Luc]

IF WE ALL BECAME SENDING FLORIST ONLY, WHO WOULD FILL THOSE ORDERS?????

Could be interesting to see......
luc

 

[Carrington]

upside down world

IF WE ALL BECAME SENDING FLORIST ONLY, WHO WOULD FILL THOSE ORDERS?????

Could be interesting to see......
luc

Interesting and potentially very exciting methinks

 

[Bigted]

As things progress, the SFO game, will go on, but only to the point where once it grows and spreads across North America, it will begin to feed on itself to the point that there will be more SFO's than the system can handle because there will not be enough fillers in many areas to fill for the SFO's or even the wires for that matter.

The inequity of the current system, since it is based on, and controlled by other than true florists, will eventually feed on itself to the point of extinction.

Just look at the first 90 years of order transfer (where the system worked) and compare it to the last even 5 years (where the wheels came of the tracks). The current program can not sustain itself for much longer, too many marginal shops are dying, and going out of business, and while this is sad, the more this happens, the more the remaining shops become stronger and I would bet more informed. Eventually the only shops around will be those that do have a clue, and concentrate on local business.

I think I disagree here. First, there is no shortage of fillers out there. The problem is, every day a bigger percentage of the fillers are desparate florists that will do anything to keep the doors open (can you blame them?). Unfortunately, the orders they send out tend to be under-valued junk that is doing serious damage to the industry. eventually, we end up with a few super-senders and an everchanging cast of fillers.

 

[lori042499]

I think I disagree here. First, there is no shortage of fillers out there. The problem is, every day a bigger percentage of the fillers are desparate florists that will do anything to keep the doors open (can you blame them?). Unfortunately, the orders they send out tend to be under-valued junk that is doing serious damage to the industry. eventually, we end up with a few super-senders and an everchanging cast of fillers.

I have to agree with Ted. This industry is so easy to just open a store and go that there will never be a shortage of fillers. This is just going to stay broken forever or until enough of the talented real florists drop the WS or become SOF and the pool of bad designs gets bigger and bigger. In the past 5 years, I have begun to call ahead on WO going to florists that I do not know because of the questionable pool of florists. When I get a person on the phone that doesn't no a daisy from their arse it is onto the next shop...This is going to become the reality as more and more florists get brave enough to go it WS free, not there yet but getting close....

 

[BamaE4U]

A viscious circle of F'sWOAC. . . . . .

Big Ted said:

I think I disagree here. First, there is no shortage of fillers out there. The problem is, every day a bigger percentage of the fillers are desparate florists that will do anything to keep the doors open (can you blame them?). Unfortunately, the orders they send out tend to be under-valued junk that is doing serious damage to the industry. eventually, we end up with a few super-senders and an everchanging cast of fillers.

As newsletter editor of the Alabama Florists newsletter, I am aware of many shops who go out of biz.
BUT I am amazed at the number of NEW shops that keep popping up.
The friendly WS reps are out there beating the bushes signing up newbies with promises of ORDERS.

 

[FlowerGirl1972]

LOTS of Promises

Big Ted said:
BUT I am amazed at the number of NEW shops that keep popping up.
The friendly WS reps are out there beating the bushes signing up newbies with promises of ORDERS.

Had a rep in my shop 3 weeks after being open, with LOTS of promises if I join ( when he called me and wanted to drop by I told him OK you have 5 minutes you better talk fast, LOL). I told him that if he PUT in WRITING those EXACT Promises ( word of mouth promises) in the contract ( how many orders come thru our town and I would get alot of them, he had numbers he THOUGHT I would get) I would sign, well he then kind of chuckled and said well..........If you get that many orders. I said UH HUH, Ever person that has tried to get into this certain WS, hasn't had any luck because the same shop gets them all, no matter who the newbie is. SO I don't have a wire service at the moment, I call shops direct and pay with a CC. BUt I have only had one customer to even ask about wiring out and turns out she was only going to a small town about 20 miles from me and I had family work going there already so I was delivering it and I delivered it myself!!:scooter:

 

[BOSS]

I think I disagree here. First, there is no shortage of fillers out there. The problem is, every day a bigger percentage of the fillers are desparate florists that will do anything to keep the doors open (can you blame them?). Unfortunately, the orders they send out tend to be under-valued junk that is doing serious damage to the industry. eventually, we end up with a few super-senders and an everchanging cast of fillers.

Ted, disagree all you want, I think we are BOTH correct...but eventually as I said, and then as you enforced...

But this scenario can not, nor will it play out for the long term. Eventually they too will die, because as we all know, you can only absorb so much discounted work.

 

[bloomz]

I be with Ted and Lori too - as one flower shop dies another Doctor's wife will say "Honey I just love flowers....."

Given that the most asked question of a wire service rep is "How do I get more orders" there's an army of willing participants out there, being replenished regularly to fill senders orders.

butt - as we see here

opinions vary