Are we all OGs?

[goldfish]

From another thread,

By the way - we're all OG's, some of us are real florist OG's and some aren't....

It's just silly for those of us who do gather orders to deny we are "OG's" - like that's a bad thing or something.

Frist of all, I have nothing against OGs or you. Let me be clear on that. But... are we all OG's? No, you are mistaken.

OG (Order gathering), as this term is commonly used, is a marketing practice that aims to capture as many flower orders as possible, with the sole intent of wiring them out to other florists.

Those of us with 1-800 numbers are not OG's, for two reasons. One, the majority of 1-800 calls are for local deliveries, not for wiring out. Two, we do get some orders that we end up wiring out, but that's an unintended consequence of having 1-800 numbers.

OG's cannot claim either of the two points above. The vast, vast majority of orders obtained by OG sites are being wired out. Besides, that (wire out) is indeed the purpose of settong up OG sites.

Again, I have nothign against OGs as long as whay they do is legal. On the other hand, I do think OG'ing does hurt the industry, though. OG'ing to me is basically equivalent to any other catalog sale. It just has a bunch of pictures of cookie-cutter arrangements. When most of us are struggling with ever-lowering perceived values of flowers among cosnumers, over-abundance of cookie-cutter arrangements over the Internet sure doesn't help.

 

[Joe Mioux]

We should all pool our money together and list a Real Flower Shop website on all the online directories, then have those orders redirected to our own local websites.

Problem solved.

Joe

 

[bloomz]

Ahh I love a good debate - the problem here is the bastardization of the term.

When you answer your phone - do you - gather the order, sell the order, collect the order, whatever you call it, the point is to get the order. I call it gathering the order most of the time.

OG (Order gathering), as this term is commonly used, is a marketing practice that aims to capture as many flower orders as possible, with the sole intent of wiring them out to other florists.

Those of us with 1-800 numbers are not OG's, for two reasons. One, the majority of 1-800 calls are for local deliveries, not for wiring out. Two, we do get some orders that we end up wiring out, but that's an unintended consequence of having 1-800 numbers.

Depends upon your focus I guess - my intent is to get the order, no matter where it is going - because one way or another, the intent is for it to be profitable to my business.

OG (Order gathering), as this term is commonly used, is a marketing practice that aims to capture as many flower orders as possible, with the sole intent of wiring them out to other florists.

Not necessarily true and in my case not true at all, my phone rings with a nice blend of local and non local orders, something I like just fine.

800 numbers are designed generally for long distance use, they are encouraging consumers to give you the order, and any time you answer it, (according to how I choose to define it) you have gathered an order. It is second tier whether that order is local or long distance, to be wired.

I again beg to differ that they are inherently bad for the industry - there's a lot of dynamics in play here. No business with the exception of the most egregious of players, wants to not please their customer, counting on return business. This is why TFTD will give the order away with 20% discounts - just for the future business. Using honest FOGS (and sometimes NOGS) - one important dynamic is experience, and sending thousands of orders gives lots of experience with pleasing said customers. Lots of experience on where and who to send that order to to get better value and consumer satisfaction (ahh - the golden preferred florist list). You can't get this experience anywhere but from those with sufficient quantities of orders to have fairly well tested the system. This to me is perhaps he most important part of the whole deal. I feel confident to say if I get an order for any major metro area - I can find that customer better value than probably 95% of other choices would have given them.

Exceptions could well be TFTD whose system I am quite sure is weighted toward those that owe them money, even tho this is a fine line for them since they want the repeat customer also - their huge advantage being ho many florists are "scared" of not doing a good job with their Big Brother orders.


So you got FOGs (generally good) NOGS (often good) DOGS (sorry to say often as well good) and you got your ripoffs. I think you are lumping the ripoffs into all the above categories.

And I agree with the train of thought that the Mom and Pop local florist doesn't really mean that much - what means lots are large highly professional florists with the means to purchase for value and deliver efficiently.

There is one more facet about whether is is bad or good for the industry that bears mention - gathering an order that a smaller shop could have received had the OG not been positioned between them and the consumer - well, there are plenty of substandard shops out there, and their very demise could well be very good for the industry.

Cold, yeah, true, absolutely. The tenacious, tenured, professional florists that remain will again be able to give the consumers better value.

Please do not confuse any of this with skimming, done either at the sending end or the filling end - they should both be run out of town on a rail

But like I've said many times before, it's best (IMO) that you embrace the term and the practice, cuz if don't at least gather your own orders - somebody else out there will!

Ok couch time again....

opinions vary

blessings

 

[RWK]

Having read through this post and some others on the subject.....and all the information from Flower Detective.....And by the fact that I am not a business owner, but a designer/employee, I think I can offer a take on this issue that perhaps may or may not have been presented before.

In the strictest sense of the word, We are all order gatherers. We do indeed seek out the order by advertising to some degree, we fill that order or transfer the order to a reputable shop in another area, and we collect the monies associated with that order.

What seperates us from the Tom Meolas, Kay's Florists, and the other dishonest ordergatherers out there is the same thing that separates us from our competition....honesty, fairness, and good, ethical, above board business practices, and absolutely top-notch design and bend-over backward customer service.
How do we combat the dishonest order gatherers? - At least in this designer/employee's point of view, we beat them by being willing to invest in our education, improve our skills constantly, and give that customer such a great shopping experience and over-the-top customer service, that he or she WANTS to come back and spend again.

 

[TexasFlowerGuy]

I agree with JOE!!! And am ready to participate. GOJO!!!!

mike

We should all pool our money together and list a Real Flower Shop website on all the online directories, then have those orders redirected to our own local websites.

Problem solved.

Joe

 

[TexasFlowerGuy]

Great Definition.....

Goldfish has done a great job of defining Order Gatherer's. Thanks Goldfish!!!!

NOw that Goldfish had defined OG's....what to do about them....Tar and Feather....sound fun...but really not that productive. We could use our time and design capabilities elsewhere. I thing Jo Moiux is on the right track...pool our resources....educate...and communicate to the public what they are really paying for.

If we can get this educational and communicational message across...we will win. Tough Job.....but heck...everything in this industry is tough right now.

Seriously, as one of our founding Father's said "if we don't consolidate(hang together)..seriously....we will all hang separately."

From another thread,

mike


Frist of all, I have nothing against OGs or you. Let me be clear on that. But... are we all OG's? No, you are mistaken.

OG (Order gathering), as this term is commonly used, is a marketing practice that aims to capture as many flower orders as possible, with the sole intent of wiring them out to other florists.

Those of us with 1-800 numbers are not OG's, for two reasons. One, the majority of 1-800 calls are for local deliveries, not for wiring out. Two, we do get some orders that we end up wiring out, but that's an unintended consequence of having 1-800 numbers.

OG's cannot claim either of the two points above. The vast, vast majority of orders obtained by OG sites are being wired out. Besides, that (wire out) is indeed the purpose of settong up OG sites.

Again, I have nothign against OGs as long as whay they do is legal. On the other hand, I do think OG'ing does hurt the industry, though. OG'ing to me is basically equivalent to any other catalog sale. It just has a bunch of pictures of cookie-cutter arrangements. When most of us are struggling with ever-lowering perceived values of flowers among cosnumers, over-abundance of cookie-cutter arrangements over the Internet sure doesn't help.

 

[goldfish]

800 numbers are designed generally for long distance use, they are encouraging consumers to give you the order, and any time you answer it, (according to how I choose to define it) you have gathered an order. It is second tier whether that order is local or long distance, to be wired.

We have the definition problem of the word 'Order Gathering' then. Some people (including me) define it narrowly, and based on that narrow definition of OG, we say not all of us are OGs. Yet there are other people (including you) who define the word broadly, and based on that broad definition of OG, they say we are all OGs.

So since we don't agree on the definition of the word OG (we don't have to, actually), then we should just move on to the topic of real substance.

I again beg to differ that they are inherently bad for the industry - there's a lot of dynamics in play here. No business with the exception of the most egregious of players, wants to not please their customer, counting on return business. This is why TFTD will give the order away with 20% discounts - just for the future business. Using honest FOGS (and sometimes NOGS) - one important dynamic is experience, and sending thousands of orders gives lots of experience with pleasing said customers. Lots of experience on where and who to send that order to to get better value and consumer satisfaction (ahh - the golden preferred florist list). You can't get this experience anywhere but from those with sufficient quantities of orders to have fairly well tested the system. This to me is perhaps he most important part of the whole deal. I feel confident to say if I get an order for any major metro area - I can find that customer better value than probably 95% of other choices would have given them.

Exceptions could well be TFTD whose system I am quite sure is weighted toward those that owe them money, even tho this is a fine line for them since they want the repeat customer also - their huge advantage being ho many florists are "scared" of not doing a good job with their Big Brother orders.

So what you're saying is that you are providing a customer your expertise to choose a right florist in the destination - basically a referral service like the one provided by a good travel agent. Interesting thoughts.

Now the question is: Is this referral service helping the industry? I concede that you could say 'yes', if and only if that was what the majority of OGs are doing. Here, we differ. I suspect that the majority of OGs are not doing any good referral service, especially WS OGs, as you yourself said above.

The reason for my suspicion? Some of the very good, well-established florists (there are a few here in Long Island) aren't taking cheap OG orders. They don't have to. That I know. So most of the cheap OG orders are being routed to small filling florists like us, some of which are good while others aren't good.

If the majority of OGs are not providing a good referral service, they aren't helping the industry overall. Just because there are a few OGs with good referral expertise, doesn't nullify this conclusion, IMO.

There is one more facet about whether is is bad or good for the industry that bears mention - gathering an order that a smaller shop could have received had the OG not been positioned between them and the consumer - well, there are plenty of substandard shops out there, and their very demise could well be very good for the industry.

Cold, yeah, true, absolutely. The tenacious, tenured, professional florists that remain will again be able to give the consumers better value.

So you are helping the industry by accelerating the demise of bad florists. Again, that's an interesting thought, but doesn't hold much water. It's like saying "Wal-mart is helping consumers by destroying non-competitive small retailers."

OGs are not necessarily accelerating the demise of bad florists, either. If anything, they might be prolonging the life of struggling florists (which include both good and bad florists), as most OG orders end up going to those florists who are desperate enough to fill for them.

One last point to make - the biggest problem I have with OG is the fact that they mostly sell pictures of arrangements, except florists' choice. They wire the customer's choice of a picture to us, as if we can duplicate it. Hey, we don't carry carns, mums, daisies, liatris, all those common staple flowers, the kind of flowers most common among OG orders.

In my opinion, those picture-based sales by OGs (e.g., 1-800-flowers) definitely helped turn flower arrangements into just one of the commodities purchased over the Internet. This, in turn, has affected the consumer's psyche in such a way that decreased the perceived value of flowers.

Now, _this_ decrease of the perceived value of flower arrangements is IMO the biggest reason why most of us are struggling. OGs have "cheapened" flower arrangements.

 

[bloomz]

Goldfish I think you may well be right in all your above points. The very biggest one I know of sends lots of cheap orders and their niche is to beat the pricing of the major TFTD OG's.

In my case - a picture speaks a thousand words, and tho the probably most common complaint is "it didn't look like the picture" that is still really rare (maybe 1 in 2-300?) Bottom line on that is the disclaimer all OG sites have "substitution may be necessary and is allowed" but I virtually NEVER have to use it cuz if there is a problem, we work it out with replacements or refunds. And I can readily say that 98% of florists don't want the recipient unhappy either.

There's lots of other images in the selection guides that I don't use, knowing (since I am a florist) that they will be hard to get filled (mango callas?) so they are left behind (for me) - some other OG's don't care, apparently figure they will deal with the problem IF it arises (TFTD biggest offenders here) and will sell the man in the moon bouquet if they can get the consumer to buy it. I choose to try to head off the possible (tho not probable) complaint at the point of sale. Cuz I want the people I have found (my customers) to come back to me every time they need flowers.

But those pictures are a necessity, and online or not - I use them. If someone comes in my store to wire flowers I point them straight to the selection guide. I want them to see what they will get for their $35 or $65 or $95 and not have sticker shock thinking they can wire Aunt Martha a $15 nice bouquet like they can pick up in the grocery store.

The selection guides are done by the best designers in the industry, and are huge to me in customer satisfaction. All the putdowns I hear here about "cookie cutters" are just so much silliness. They are fabulous designs I am proud to feature in my cooler or on my website, and I don't really see much better anywhere.

So a picture speaks a thousand words, and when we get an incoming get this - I actually prefer to have a picture to refer to so I will know what the sender had in mind. (Course I don't have to do the designs since I don't know how)

Anyhow, bottom line in my thinking yes we are all OG's. Unless you're a fulfillment center working a warehouse, you better be.

alas tho, as always...

opinions vary

carry on - I've said about enough on this topic.

 

[lori042499]

Goldfish I think you may well be right in all your above points. The very biggest one I know of sends lots of cheap orders and their niche is to beat the pricing of the major TFTD OG's.

In my case - a picture speaks a thousand words, and tho the probably most common complaint is "it didn't look like the picture" that is still really rare (maybe 1 in 2-300?) Bottom line on that is the disclaimer all OG sites have "substitution may be necessary and is allowed" but I virtually NEVER have to use it cuz if there is a problem, we work it out with replacements or refunds. And I can readily say that 98% of florists don't want the recipient unhappy either.

There's lots of other images in the selection guides that I don't use, knowing (since I am a florist) that they will be hard to get filled (mango callas?) so they are left behind (for me) - some other OG's don't care, apparently figure they will deal with the problem IF it arises (TFTD biggest offenders here) and will sell the man in the moon bouquet if they can get the consumer to buy it. I choose to try to head off the possible (tho not probable) complaint at the point of sale. Cuz I want the people I have found (my customers) to come back to me every time they need flowers.

But those pictures are a necessity, and online or not - I use them. If someone comes in my store to wire flowers I point them straight to the selection guide. I want them to see what they will get for their $35 or $65 or $95 and not have sticker shock thinking they can wire Aunt Martha a $15 nice bouquet like they can pick up in the grocery store.

The selection guides are done by the best designers in the industry, and are huge to me in customer satisfaction. All the putdowns I hear here about "cookie cutters" are just so much silliness. They are fabulous designs I am proud to feature in my cooler or on my website, and I don't really see much better anywhere.

So a picture speaks a thousand words, and when we get an incoming get this - I actually prefer to have a picture to refer to so I will know what the sender had in mind. (Course I don't have to do the designs since I don't know how)

Anyhow, bottom line in my thinking yes we are all OG's. Unless you're a fulfillment center working a warehouse, you better be.

alas tho, as always...

opinions vary

carry on - I've said about enough on this topic.

I must say, I am more likely to accept an order from a know OG with a formula arrangement than with an anything goes arrangement. I then know that the arrangement and price was agreed upon. They saw the arrangement and were given the price and ok'd it. This means that even if the OG skimmed the order, the sender already ok'd the price and are goin to get what they saw and paid for. With a fill to value order, They have a price vaulue in mind and if the OG skims 10 bucks off the top, we have a recipe for disaster. All the complaints I have had over the years have all been on vase to value orders. I have never had a size complaint on picture arrangements.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

I must say, I am more likely to accept an order from a know OG with a formula arrangement than with an anything goes arrangement. I then know that the arrangement and price was agreed upon. They saw the arrangement and were given the price and ok'd it. This means that even if the OG skimmed the order, the sender already ok'd the price and are goin to get what they saw and paid for. With a fill to value order, They have a price vaulue in mind and if the OG skims 10 bucks off the top, we have a recipe for disaster. All the complaints I have had over the years have all been on vase to value orders. I have never had a size complaint on picture arrangements.

First bold:
Be careful that you can actually MAKE the order and MAKE money on the order!

Second Bold:
Huh??? Sooo...sender orders a $59.99 "bouquet" and florist fills for $50 (price they got) less delivery 'cause the skimmer skimmed 9.99 off the top - and sender won't notice?

There are way too many DOG's out there, playing the game of showing the consumer one thing, and delivering another. Making promises they cannot keep, selling items they have NO idea if available, etc...

Look, YES we are ALL "OG's"...but the context of the definition is on how you 'gather' your orders. Deceptively? Skimming $$ off the top, in where the consumer has NO idea? Or, honestly...selling a $50 Fruit Basket and having delivered a $50 Fruit Basket by yourself or another florist, and charging accordingly.

As for the open design orders - LOVE them. We actually have the opposite, Lori. When the Picture shows 5 fully open Lilies, and we send it out with 3 and 3 buds due to open in a day or two - COMPLAINT. "It's not like the picture..."....GRRR....

To save a blood pressure pill, I won't even GO into 800 Flowers and their "Menu" designs...

- H.

 

[lori042499]

First bold:
Be careful that you can actually MAKE the order and MAKE money on the order!

Second Bold:
Huh??? Sooo...sender orders a $59.99 "bouquet" and florist fills for $50 (price they got) less delivery 'cause the skimmer skimmed 9.99 off the top - and sender won't notice?

There are way too many DOG's out there, playing the game of showing the consumer one thing, and delivering another. Making promises they cannot keep, selling items they have NO idea if available, etc...

Look, YES we are ALL "OG's"...but the context of the definition is on how you 'gather' your orders. Deceptively? Skimming $$ off the top, in where the consumer has NO idea? Or, honestly...selling a $50 Fruit Basket and having delivered a $50 Fruit Basket by yourself or another florist, and charging accordingly.

As for the open design orders - LOVE them. We actually have the opposite, Lori. When the Picture shows 5 fully open Lilies, and we send it out with 3 and 3 buds due to open in a day or two - COMPLAINT. "It's not like the picture..."....GRRR....

To save a blood pressure pill, I won't even GO into 800 Flowers and their "Menu" designs...

- H.

What I am saying is that if the og sells x arangmenet at 59.99 and customer saw that arrangement on the web and gets charged 78.49 and I get the 59.99 and I deem that I can make the arrangement pictured for that amount. The sender has already oked the amount of the charge and saw waht they were going to get. Where as sender calls and is told x arrangement will have xy and z in it for 59.99 and is charged 78.49. I have no idea what xy and z are because it came over th wire as vase fille dto value with the value part being in the hands of joe blow who doesn't know the difference between a mini calla and a daisy. That is where you have problems arise. Everyone's idea of value is different, when they have a picture they are looking at when they hear the 78.49 price they see the picture and ok the amount. With the other scenario they see the picture that the associate put in their head when given the 78.49 price and rarely is this a real sized to value arrangement because it is an imagined thing.

 

[TOTO]

Oh PLEASE! Get a KNIFE!

Here we go again on the subject of OGs (floral order gatherers).

Floral OGs (by our definition) who DOO NOT DOO DA DOO and sit in a cubicle somewhere with a headset on and a keyboard in front of them suffering from carpal tunnel are like SCUD MISSILES coming in between WEE REAL FLORISTS and our REAL FLORAL CUSTOMERS.

To suggest that WEE REAL FLORISTS are in the same category as them, is an insult to our intelligence.

We have always taken pride in the fact that, we are INDEPENDENT BUSINESSMEN/WOMEN and to suggest that, the OGs should have any role in SUBCONTRACTING their HIGHLY DISCOUNTED MIDDLEMAN BUSINESS through our shops, either directly or through another middleman WS, is a doomed plan to object failure.

Only two viable situations here.

1. You are a REAL FLORIST and CAN DOO DA DOO!
2. You are an OG with NO FOLLOW THROUGH!

Lastly, if you have a FLORIST KNIFE and CAN USE IT, or employ others WHO CAN DOO, you're a REAL FLORIST with EBB and FLOW and have the expertise and the ability to ACT AS A BONEFIDE AGENT for consumers who wish to purchase floral products through a professional source, either locally or through another professional REAL FLORIST.

And I TOO agree with Joe's plan. It is up to US WEE BEES to help ourselves in an effort to EDUCATE DA CONSUMERS by differentiating ourselves from the MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS who want to STEAL OUR STUFF.

 

[Villageman]

Villageman

Is this an attempt to continue the dummying down of
America. We all know what an order gatherer is and what it is not, so how about common sense when it comes to this arena, of who is and who isn't. We all know there is is not to much gray area.