Can someone please tell me what you would use to create a 24" fresh bleeding heart...you have $175
I know how I do it, just wondered how everyone else does it.
I know how I do it, just wondered how everyone else does it.
Bleeding heart
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Depending on what type of 'bleeding' heart - it would vary.
Most people don't realize, there are four types of heart shaped peices.
There is the TRADITIONAL heart - usually a background of white flowers with a cluster of red flowers, foliages, fillers, ribbons, etc.
There is the BROKEN heart - usually a solid background of white flowers with a jagged line of red flowers going from the center of the heart to the edge.
There is the true BLEEDING heart - same as the broken heart except the jagged line of red does not stop at the edge of the heart, but continues on in a line to resemble drops of blood.
The last type of heart is what I call - GARDEN HEART - either an open or solid heart form covered in mixed varieties of flowers.
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For 175.00 - a traditional heart on a 24 inch oasis form - white cushion poms background and cluster of red carnations and/or miniature red carnations.
175.00 - broken heart and bleeding heart - there is not enough dollars to use anything other than white cushion poms and red carnations. - and those would be skimpy on a 24 inch form
If the customer wanted roses, I would have to begin at the 200.oo price range.
Most people
Most people don't realize, there are four types of heart shaped peices.
There is the TRADITIONAL heart - usually a background of white flowers with a cluster of red flowers, foliages, fillers, ribbons, etc.
There is the BROKEN heart - usually a solid background of white flowers with a jagged line of red flowers going from the center of the heart to the edge.
There is the true BLEEDING heart - same as the broken heart except the jagged line of red does not stop at the edge of the heart, but continues on in a line to resemble drops of blood.
The last type of heart is what I call - GARDEN HEART - either an open or solid heart form covered in mixed varieties of flowers.
------------------------------------------------------------
For 175.00 - a traditional heart on a 24 inch oasis form - white cushion poms background and cluster of red carnations and/or miniature red carnations.
175.00 - broken heart and bleeding heart - there is not enough dollars to use anything other than white cushion poms and red carnations. - and those would be skimpy on a 24 inch form
If the customer wanted roses, I would have to begin at the 200.oo price range.
Most people
PhillyPhlorist
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First, our "old time" definition of a "Bleeding Heart" is a solid heart, done in all Red Carnations, with a cluster of Red Roses/Sprays off center, up and to the left a bit. Then, there is a #3 bow, with long streamers, with knots tied in them. These streamers with the knots represent the drops of blood.
Typically, we would use an 18" oasis frame, then by the time you extend the carns and greens you are at around 21-22" in diameter. We mount these on a 48 easel.
We charge $175 for this. If it is around V-day or C-mas, price goes to $200-225 due to the red flowers.
A 24" oasis frame would HAVE to garner at least $300 as you will need a good number of carns to do it right.
- H
PS - will try to post a picture of one...
EDIT - re-reading Rick's post pointed out in my mind how different areas of the country have different definitions. You need to be careful as the Bleeding Heart seems to have many!
Typically, we would use an 18" oasis frame, then by the time you extend the carns and greens you are at around 21-22" in diameter. We mount these on a 48 easel.
We charge $175 for this. If it is around V-day or C-mas, price goes to $200-225 due to the red flowers.
A 24" oasis frame would HAVE to garner at least $300 as you will need a good number of carns to do it right.
- H
PS - will try to post a picture of one...
EDIT - re-reading Rick's post pointed out in my mind how different areas of the country have different definitions. You need to be careful as the Bleeding Heart seems to have many!
Thanks for the reply Rick and Philly!
I have a FD in town that doesn't like that I use the oasis form. She has me second guessing myself. She says "everyone else just uses styrofoam".
I am dumbfounded that a florist would use a styrofoam form for a fresh arrangement! Especially when the deceased lays in wake for an ENTIRE day followed by a service the NEXT day.
I'm even more dumbfounded that she expects me to do what "all the others do"!!
I explained to her that fresh needs to have a watersource to remain fresh. She understands that but thinks it is too heavy.
We delivered a 24" heart to the funeral home chapel today (FTD order, bleeding heart, delivery to the FH) She refused to take it to the church for the visitation!! Again, we offered to take it for her. She said no, they would just take it to the church in the AM. So the heart WAS NOT TAKEN TO THE EVENING VISITATION.
She sends a lot my way so I don't want to cause waves. But I can't seem to make her understand that I am filling an order the correct way and that I do not have any influence on an order that was placed from one of the .com sites.
What would you do?
I have a FD in town that doesn't like that I use the oasis form. She has me second guessing myself. She says "everyone else just uses styrofoam".
I am dumbfounded that a florist would use a styrofoam form for a fresh arrangement! Especially when the deceased lays in wake for an ENTIRE day followed by a service the NEXT day.
I'm even more dumbfounded that she expects me to do what "all the others do"!!
I explained to her that fresh needs to have a watersource to remain fresh. She understands that but thinks it is too heavy.
We delivered a 24" heart to the funeral home chapel today (FTD order, bleeding heart, delivery to the FH) She refused to take it to the church for the visitation!! Again, we offered to take it for her. She said no, they would just take it to the church in the AM. So the heart WAS NOT TAKEN TO THE EVENING VISITATION.
She sends a lot my way so I don't want to cause waves. But I can't seem to make her understand that I am filling an order the correct way and that I do not have any influence on an order that was placed from one of the .com sites.
What would you do?
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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In the old days before oasis forms, Hearts were made of styrofoam...
The poms or carns were toothpicked...cut pom or carn at flower head stick in double ended tooth pick and stickl into foam...Then roses or carns were waterpicked into the bleeding part, Wakes lasted 3 days back then and because of the nature of carns and poms the lasted fine...
I would start to listen toi your funeral director especially if work is being sent you way, if you make their job easier they will keep sending work your way..piss them off and it is very easy to not send you any orders...
The poms or carns were toothpicked...cut pom or carn at flower head stick in double ended tooth pick and stickl into foam...Then roses or carns were waterpicked into the bleeding part, Wakes lasted 3 days back then and because of the nature of carns and poms the lasted fine...
I would start to listen toi your funeral director especially if work is being sent you way, if you make their job easier they will keep sending work your way..piss them off and it is very easy to not send you any orders...
If that Lady wanted that heart side ways, that is the way you should have done it. Yes, I know you were trying to do it your way (the right way). You didn't follow this Lady's order. would have given her piece if just done her way.
I get orders in my shop from time to time that has to be done "Old School Way", it isn't what I want, I'm filling a need, a vision of a customer.
We as florist are interpreting a message of loss and sadness in every arrangement there is a message, be it happy, or what ever, you have to read between the lines.
If you didn't care to do this lady's her way you shouldn't taken the order.
JMHO not to be mean, just as I see it.
I get orders in my shop from time to time that has to be done "Old School Way", it isn't what I want, I'm filling a need, a vision of a customer.
We as florist are interpreting a message of loss and sadness in every arrangement there is a message, be it happy, or what ever, you have to read between the lines.
If you didn't care to do this lady's her way you shouldn't taken the order.
JMHO not to be mean, just as I see it.
Tracy D'Amico
Well-Known Member
Oy, I think your FH & one of mine are related 
You can make a heart/cross on styro; we do occasionally, though I prefer the wet foam. I never was taught to use toothpicks, and always just cut my pomps/carns at a sharp angle & poke them right in. Never had ANY problem with them lasting, it's only difficult if the product is super new & hasn't hardened off in water & cooler overnight prior to insertion. And since most of our funeral orders are last minute & we don't carry standart red/white carns or white cushions typically, we found just using the wet foam much easier. But they will absolutely last just fine in styro for most one or two day visits.
I had a thread a year or two ago about my picky FH whose complaint was weight and dripping. We've kind of gotten past that, though he still moans about them being too heavy. We found some creative solutions to the dripping & that seems to have been alleviated. He wanted us to make ALLLLL of our sprays/casket covers/set pieces on styro & pick the flowers. I don't think florists in our area still do that, but it seemed a very unreasonable request.
It's good to have your own procedures, but hard to balance it with your "host" and especially if they're sending you customers.... we've certainly bent ours to suit the $$ that come in.
You can make a heart/cross on styro; we do occasionally, though I prefer the wet foam. I never was taught to use toothpicks, and always just cut my pomps/carns at a sharp angle & poke them right in. Never had ANY problem with them lasting, it's only difficult if the product is super new & hasn't hardened off in water & cooler overnight prior to insertion. And since most of our funeral orders are last minute & we don't carry standart red/white carns or white cushions typically, we found just using the wet foam much easier. But they will absolutely last just fine in styro for most one or two day visits.
I had a thread a year or two ago about my picky FH whose complaint was weight and dripping. We've kind of gotten past that, though he still moans about them being too heavy. We found some creative solutions to the dripping & that seems to have been alleviated. He wanted us to make ALLLLL of our sprays/casket covers/set pieces on styro & pick the flowers. I don't think florists in our area still do that, but it seemed a very unreasonable request.
It's good to have your own procedures, but hard to balance it with your "host" and especially if they're sending you customers.... we've certainly bent ours to suit the $$ that come in.
We contact the FD and find out where the viewing will be we deliver the flowers to the viewing not to the FD...has saved a lot of hassel with the heavier pieces.
If they can lift bodies etc. Why is it so hard to lift a Bleeding heart. It would weigh less than a body itself.!
Luc
Luc
lori042499
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Because FD can be very crabby, They hate the water period...
Older FD especially have not liked the shift to water laden itemd because it makes a mess on their floors and rugs...They are heavy and need to be moved, it makes for more work than the crabby ones want to do...sometimes the heart forms are over soaked and get weak and they have a very hard time getting them to stay on an easel...
UK version
We had to do a Bleeding/Broken heart for one of our Smithers shoots. This is the intepretation one of our designers came up with which is a bed of Baby's Breath in which a line of small roses has been placed and overlaid with aluminium wire. The edging is the stiff sisal Smithers offer over here.
In the UK we lay our tributes on the ground so water seepage isn't so much of a problem although our FH bods don't like the water down the neck either. That said we are lucky that the Oasis NaylorBase hearts come with plastic base which retains water
I only know of one UK florist who uses styrofoam - we went straight from wire frames with moss and pins to foam.
Carrie
We had to do a Bleeding/Broken heart for one of our Smithers shoots. This is the intepretation one of our designers came up with which is a bed of Baby's Breath in which a line of small roses has been placed and overlaid with aluminium wire. The edging is the stiff sisal Smithers offer over here.
In the UK we lay our tributes on the ground so water seepage isn't so much of a problem although our FH bods don't like the water down the neck either. That said we are lucky that the Oasis NaylorBase hearts come with plastic base which retains water
I only know of one UK florist who uses styrofoam - we went straight from wire frames with moss and pins to foam.
Carrie
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By adapting foam soaking techniques, You can minimize, weight, drainage, and instability with the mache forms.
First of all - You want to soak your foam peice face down......If There is not a container of water large enough.......take the shipping box....line it with black 4mm plastic and use that as a soaking tub.
You only soak it till the edge of the mache touches the water....then lift it out and sit it on the table foam side up. Wait about 30 minutes before designing........at this point, only the top half of the form is soaked.......THe water drains into the dry oasis and soaks the remainder. - You may need to use a double stand or a wooden stand for the 24 inch and heavier forms.
Now, the John Henry plastic backs oasis cross and heart forms......soak them the same way........however, the drip cup is on backwards.......take and pry off the drip cup and re-attach so it is facing forward.
Also, before I soak the form ( heart ) I go ahead and hang it on the easel to see where the legs will hit and I take my knife and put two holes there.......where you are wiring the mache onto the stand at the form's perimeter.
First of all - You want to soak your foam peice face down......If There is not a container of water large enough.......take the shipping box....line it with black 4mm plastic and use that as a soaking tub.
You only soak it till the edge of the mache touches the water....then lift it out and sit it on the table foam side up. Wait about 30 minutes before designing........at this point, only the top half of the form is soaked.......THe water drains into the dry oasis and soaks the remainder. - You may need to use a double stand or a wooden stand for the 24 inch and heavier forms.
Now, the John Henry plastic backs oasis cross and heart forms......soak them the same way........however, the drip cup is on backwards.......take and pry off the drip cup and re-attach so it is facing forward.
Also, before I soak the form ( heart ) I go ahead and hang it on the easel to see where the legs will hit and I take my knife and put two holes there.......where you are wiring the mache onto the stand at the form's perimeter.
We used to use stryofoam forms for carn and pom forms and oasis for other flowers. We would toothpick everything, just as we did before the oasis forms were available. We were thinking we were being more profitable b/c the oasis forms were too costly, especially for the forms under $200.
We started timing ourselves. Not timing the good designers, but the average ones. What we were noticing is that when you have a lot of funeral work, you save the items like the casket sprays, and baskets for the designer on duty and the inexperienced designers or helpers were shown forms b/c they are tedious and easy. What we thought should take 45 min to 1 hr took 90 minutes plus. We then added up all the materials, time, proper labor ($60 per hr) and realized we were losing our asses on the forms under $250.
We pretty much doubled our prices on the forms. Most of our forms now cost $275-$400, or more for unique flowers or unique designs.
For $175 we would used an 18" oasis form. We charge 40% labor ($70) and would like it to be completed in one hour at most. The form is $25 retail, only making it up 2 x's. That leaves you only $80... at $1.50 per carn, you can only use about 50 carns.
A bleeding heart is solid red. I have no clue where and when the morbid blood droplets came from, but ask anyone 60 years or older and I think they would agree it's just solid red. A broken heart is white with a red crack. If you have more $ you could always do a spray, but not for $175 in our shop.
A 24" heart would cost $325 ($130 labor, $35 form & $160 in flowers), leaves you money for about 100 carns. I think it should take about 100 to fill a 24" heart. This takes most designers only 60-80 minutes, but the additional labor allows for al the other BS, you sometimes run into like needing to spray flowers if you don't have the ride colors, opening the carns a bit by hand, bordering in greens, etc.
We should have increased our form prices LONG before we did (about a year ago). We also increased the recommended pricing for head and foot baskets, casket sprays and other immediate family work.
I think sometimes those of us in biz for years.... we struggle with price increases periodically. Our labor and overhead has increased drastically... we need to pass this on. And the oasis form prices vs styro - yowza!
We lose VERY few orders for forms since the price increase. Usually if their budget is $200 or less and they are quoted $325... they just choose a basket, fireside, etc. The labor on these items is only 30%. We explain that more of their money is going toward flowers in a basket or spray... and it would be far showier of a design.
We started timing ourselves. Not timing the good designers, but the average ones. What we were noticing is that when you have a lot of funeral work, you save the items like the casket sprays, and baskets for the designer on duty and the inexperienced designers or helpers were shown forms b/c they are tedious and easy. What we thought should take 45 min to 1 hr took 90 minutes plus. We then added up all the materials, time, proper labor ($60 per hr) and realized we were losing our asses on the forms under $250.
We pretty much doubled our prices on the forms. Most of our forms now cost $275-$400, or more for unique flowers or unique designs.
For $175 we would used an 18" oasis form. We charge 40% labor ($70) and would like it to be completed in one hour at most. The form is $25 retail, only making it up 2 x's. That leaves you only $80... at $1.50 per carn, you can only use about 50 carns.
A bleeding heart is solid red. I have no clue where and when the morbid blood droplets came from, but ask anyone 60 years or older and I think they would agree it's just solid red. A broken heart is white with a red crack. If you have more $ you could always do a spray, but not for $175 in our shop.
A 24" heart would cost $325 ($130 labor, $35 form & $160 in flowers), leaves you money for about 100 carns. I think it should take about 100 to fill a 24" heart. This takes most designers only 60-80 minutes, but the additional labor allows for al the other BS, you sometimes run into like needing to spray flowers if you don't have the ride colors, opening the carns a bit by hand, bordering in greens, etc.
We should have increased our form prices LONG before we did (about a year ago). We also increased the recommended pricing for head and foot baskets, casket sprays and other immediate family work.
I think sometimes those of us in biz for years.... we struggle with price increases periodically. Our labor and overhead has increased drastically... we need to pass this on. And the oasis form prices vs styro - yowza!
We lose VERY few orders for forms since the price increase. Usually if their budget is $200 or less and they are quoted $325... they just choose a basket, fireside, etc. The labor on these items is only 30%. We explain that more of their money is going toward flowers in a basket or spray... and it would be far showier of a design.
felicityflowers
New Member
I think it was the funeral director who wanted the cross made from styrofoam...not the customer.
Yes, you are correct. The order, which came thru FTD, called for an oasis form. It is the funeral director that wants me to use styrofoam.
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