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Florists Blind Use of Wireservices
- Thread starter mlou
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LORRIE
New Member
Its a painful lesson we have to learn isn't it. When you start a flowershop from the ground up it seems to make "sense" that you must have at least one wire service. We did it 3 years ago and it took a long time - at least 1 AND a half years for me to really figure it out- we were bringing in the money but not keeping the money. The 1st 18 months was just so overwhelming running the store every day and dealing with other issues that I kept thinking we just had to kick it up a notch or two to be profitable. Clearly coming to this board and the other board has hastened the learning curve for me but not enough of us(florists) get here to have the benefit of the experiance here.
That is why I believe the advertising program proposed on another thread is so important. Lots of florists need to have this information and the truth about the rape and pillaging that goes on daily. A real revolution needs to take place in this industry and it will only happen when there are more than the few hundred who post here are involved and enlightened.
Our shop is now having to pull back from the WS's that we once thought were the way to go. Our very survival depends on it. Year number 3 will bring some very tough decisions for us. I am making better decisions with my eyes wide open now and that helps but this season will be critical especially since the last 6 months have been so awful. I am grateful for what has been given me by the folks who post here. Without this help the shop would not be open today but we must all look to the future . I too believe that the ws concept is on it's last legs becuse ot the internet and great adjustment will take place quickly. It's been a real experiance going from therapist to florist/therapist- hope we can ALL cope with the changes and come out stronger!
That is why I believe the advertising program proposed on another thread is so important. Lots of florists need to have this information and the truth about the rape and pillaging that goes on daily. A real revolution needs to take place in this industry and it will only happen when there are more than the few hundred who post here are involved and enlightened.
Our shop is now having to pull back from the WS's that we once thought were the way to go. Our very survival depends on it. Year number 3 will bring some very tough decisions for us. I am making better decisions with my eyes wide open now and that helps but this season will be critical especially since the last 6 months have been so awful. I am grateful for what has been given me by the folks who post here. Without this help the shop would not be open today but we must all look to the future . I too believe that the ws concept is on it's last legs becuse ot the internet and great adjustment will take place quickly. It's been a real experiance going from therapist to florist/therapist- hope we can ALL cope with the changes and come out stronger!
A REAL Florist's Lament
Our shop is 3rd generation. When our grandparents and then parents operated the business, wire service orders were what put the money in the bank. They belonged to them all, Redbook, Carik, FTD, Teleflora, and a few others that I can't even remember. Of course, back then fees were nominal and they were governed by a florist board of REAL florist. We are now down to 1 wire service (6 years ago we were members of 3), but now we have to contend with every grocery store having full service flower shops, Sam's Club, Walmart and of course, the skimmers and the gathers. Wire Services are not the only culprits we have to contend with. If it weren't for weddings and corporate accounts, it would look pretty depressing, compared to our relative's days of milk and honey.
Whether it be the wire services stealing from it's members or our competing with other retail stores, the fact is that a Florist's burden is heavy and each individual has to ask "is it worth the price", and I mean the emotional price.
When asked "is it all worth it" by those who are thinking about opening a flower shop, I reply; "it's alot like raising your kids - you gotta love it".
Happy Holidays and God Bless Us Every One........
Our shop is 3rd generation. When our grandparents and then parents operated the business, wire service orders were what put the money in the bank. They belonged to them all, Redbook, Carik, FTD, Teleflora, and a few others that I can't even remember. Of course, back then fees were nominal and they were governed by a florist board of REAL florist. We are now down to 1 wire service (6 years ago we were members of 3), but now we have to contend with every grocery store having full service flower shops, Sam's Club, Walmart and of course, the skimmers and the gathers. Wire Services are not the only culprits we have to contend with. If it weren't for weddings and corporate accounts, it would look pretty depressing, compared to our relative's days of milk and honey.
Whether it be the wire services stealing from it's members or our competing with other retail stores, the fact is that a Florist's burden is heavy and each individual has to ask "is it worth the price", and I mean the emotional price.
When asked "is it all worth it" by those who are thinking about opening a flower shop, I reply; "it's alot like raising your kids - you gotta love it".
Happy Holidays and God Bless Us Every One........
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
BamaE4U
New Member
Still relevant old thread. . .
Ran accross this thread and thought it might be interesting slap myself in the face with it.
You know, the old commercial where the guy is putting on aftershave with a slap to the face and says "Thanks, I needed that." Thanks Mlou!
It's Gonna be a . .GREAT DAY!
Now that you can't get that tune out of your head, have a Great One!
Ran accross this thread and thought it might be interesting slap myself in the face with it.
You know, the old commercial where the guy is putting on aftershave with a slap to the face and says "Thanks, I needed that." Thanks Mlou!
It's Gonna be a . .GREAT DAY!
Now that you can't get that tune out of your head, have a Great One!
Before we let go Teleflora 5 years ago we were continually amazed at their standard response to every problem...that is: spend more money with Teleflora...new software, new product info brochures, new enhanced "services" and on and on...and even 5 years later we still get the occaisional call: "I've got a teleflora order for you" What a learning experience that was. We cherish and support our loyal customers and suppliers but, there are some real criminals and parasites out there in flower land.
TOTO
New Member
Re: Thanks Mary Lou!
Thanks for posting the BLOG!
It's obvious that, Lynn has a CLUE and was able to get passed the WS Smoke and Mirror screens.
Back in THE DAY, (Late 1970's and 1980's), all florists were in FAT CITY and so, the losses they incurred on the filling side were never an issue.
WEE TOO were members of SEVEN wire services back then.
Teleflora, FTD, AFS, FLORAFAX, RFS, CARIK, and FCN.
And, our shops were always so busy! Only problem we had was over the fact that, our payroll was high, our cost of goods were high, our delivery expenses were high, but our NET PROFIT was LOW and so, I knew something was really wrong with that picture.
Around 1984, I forced myself to learn LOTUS and put each one on a SPREADSHEET and VIOLA, that gave MEE the AFTER SHAVE SMACK on my FACE!
Lost money on all of them from the FILLING SIDE of the EQUATION and finally figured out that, the only way I did make money was on the SENDING SIDE of the equation.
Since that was REALITY, it begged the question of " WHY DID I NEED MORE THAN ONE WIRE SERVICE to send out orders? "
Which was why, we DUMPED SIX and KEPT THE ONE which, at that time, WE WERE PART OWNERS OF!
And now, it's gotten to the point where A REAL FLORIST can't even afford ONE WIRE SERVICE, especially when, they HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THEM ANYMORE!
To add insult to injury, the wire services have now MORPHED into the REAL FLORISTS' BIGGEST COMPETITORS as they attempt to STEAL the floral consumer sales out from under them, SKIM OFF the 20% COMMISSIONS and the $ERVICE CHARGES, and try to subcontract the 30% DISCOUNTED JUNK with FREE DELIVERY onto the backs of WEE WHO DOO ALL DA DOO!
Today's question is now: Why would any REAL FLORIST even bother paying them any of their HARD EARNED MONEY when they could JUST SAY NO? Unless a REAL FLORIST acts as an ENABLER for their COMPETITION, those JUNK ORDERS have no place to go, and simply DIE on their vine.
After which, WHO THEY (the customers) GONNA CALL?
Thanks for posting the BLOG!
It's obvious that, Lynn has a CLUE and was able to get passed the WS Smoke and Mirror screens.
Back in THE DAY, (Late 1970's and 1980's), all florists were in FAT CITY and so, the losses they incurred on the filling side were never an issue.
WEE TOO were members of SEVEN wire services back then.
Teleflora, FTD, AFS, FLORAFAX, RFS, CARIK, and FCN.
And, our shops were always so busy! Only problem we had was over the fact that, our payroll was high, our cost of goods were high, our delivery expenses were high, but our NET PROFIT was LOW and so, I knew something was really wrong with that picture.
Around 1984, I forced myself to learn LOTUS and put each one on a SPREADSHEET and VIOLA, that gave MEE the AFTER SHAVE SMACK on my FACE!
Lost money on all of them from the FILLING SIDE of the EQUATION and finally figured out that, the only way I did make money was on the SENDING SIDE of the equation.
Since that was REALITY, it begged the question of " WHY DID I NEED MORE THAN ONE WIRE SERVICE to send out orders? "
Which was why, we DUMPED SIX and KEPT THE ONE which, at that time, WE WERE PART OWNERS OF!
And now, it's gotten to the point where A REAL FLORIST can't even afford ONE WIRE SERVICE, especially when, they HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THEM ANYMORE!
To add insult to injury, the wire services have now MORPHED into the REAL FLORISTS' BIGGEST COMPETITORS as they attempt to STEAL the floral consumer sales out from under them, SKIM OFF the 20% COMMISSIONS and the $ERVICE CHARGES, and try to subcontract the 30% DISCOUNTED JUNK with FREE DELIVERY onto the backs of WEE WHO DOO ALL DA DOO!
Today's question is now: Why would any REAL FLORIST even bother paying them any of their HARD EARNED MONEY when they could JUST SAY NO? Unless a REAL FLORIST acts as an ENABLER for their COMPETITION, those JUNK ORDERS have no place to go, and simply DIE on their vine.
After which, WHO THEY (the customers) GONNA CALL?
Toto
What you say is logical and true. Unfortunately the orders will not go away, they will be filled by regional distribution centers set up by the wire services. That will cut the local florist out of the picture even more. Also, it takes away from that warm and fuzzy feeling that you get from buying flowers for someone at your local shop. Then, as flower buying provides less and less emotional satisfaction for the consumers, they will just start buying something else.
What you say is logical and true. Unfortunately the orders will not go away, they will be filled by regional distribution centers set up by the wire services. That will cut the local florist out of the picture even more. Also, it takes away from that warm and fuzzy feeling that you get from buying flowers for someone at your local shop. Then, as flower buying provides less and less emotional satisfaction for the consumers, they will just start buying something else.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
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John.......
"I remember a time" (eg when we were part owners) is a negative overview of the bright and talented up and comers we have in this business!! As long a we CONTINUE to create a negative spin on ALL things as they are NOW, we are gonna poison some pretty talented people AWAY from this business!!
Many new and upstart florists/owners NEED the volumes (though less than before) to help build their businesses, to help them develop their reputations, and build a customer base!!
we would hope, that in short order, they become savy enough business people, to go where the money is, and THEN make their own decisions on the value of maintaining a relationship with a wire service!!
Breaking even on wire service transactions creates things that you've overlooked, and just the ability to service OUTGOING orders, with existing networks is STILL of great value to some, and less value to others!!
Say what you wish.....IF YOU LEARN EVERYTHING there is to know about this business, then you CAN BECOME the "GOD OF FLORISTS" and sit atop the mountain of wisdom, and dispense it.
I for one, have a long way to go before I know EVERYTHING.....a longggggg way to go!!
Bigted said:
"I remember a time" (eg when we were part owners) is a negative overview of the bright and talented up and comers we have in this business!! As long a we CONTINUE to create a negative spin on ALL things as they are NOW, we are gonna poison some pretty talented people AWAY from this business!!
Many new and upstart florists/owners NEED the volumes (though less than before) to help build their businesses, to help them develop their reputations, and build a customer base!!
we would hope, that in short order, they become savy enough business people, to go where the money is, and THEN make their own decisions on the value of maintaining a relationship with a wire service!!
Breaking even on wire service transactions creates things that you've overlooked, and just the ability to service OUTGOING orders, with existing networks is STILL of great value to some, and less value to others!!
Say what you wish.....IF YOU LEARN EVERYTHING there is to know about this business, then you CAN BECOME the "GOD OF FLORISTS" and sit atop the mountain of wisdom, and dispense it.
I for one, have a long way to go before I know EVERYTHING.....a longggggg way to go!!
Disagree, Mikey...
If a new florist is losing money (yes, losing) with a wire service, how long can they possibly stay in business? Or, should that just be figured in with start-up capital?
Why not forgo the wasted time and money on a wire service when you can use the CURRENT benefits to a florist like the wire service alternatives, the internet and direct advertisement etc.? You know, all of the ideas incessantly posted on this forum?
Mikey the Flower Guy said:
If a new florist is losing money (yes, losing) with a wire service, how long can they possibly stay in business? Or, should that just be figured in with start-up capital?
Mikey the Flower Guy said:
Why not forgo the wasted time and money on a wire service when you can use the CURRENT benefits to a florist like the wire service alternatives, the internet and direct advertisement etc.? You know, all of the ideas incessantly posted on this forum?
Sorry to butt in, but...
I am qualified to answer this question, because we are exactly a new florist losing money and we carry both FTD and TF (from the previous owner).:hammer:
First of all, we are losing money, not because of WS, but in spite of it. The major loss has been in the area of local orders in which local customers order flowers to be delivered locally.
Right after we took over the operation, there was a significant drop in both the number and average price of local orders.
urpletea We have predicted this kind of drop, but the magnitude of drop was more than we had anticipated (we actually know the reasons for this drop; I can explain it some other time if people are interested).
In the meatime, incoming wire orders have increased significantly, primarily because one of our competitors (six of them in our town) has dropped FTD. We became the only FTD shop in the town.
These FTD incoming orders in a way have helped reduce the money hemorrhage. It is in this context that we say we "cannot" (note the double quote) get rid of WS right now. They aren't a cash cow, we all know that, but if we got rid of it now, we would be losing more money and would likely run out of capital before we build our brand and reputation. Realistically, we predict that it takes a couple of years to build our own brand recognition.
Finally and more importantly, my position is not that our current business model is a winning model. Not at all. It sucks. It depends too much on filling those discount orders.
We know that, in order to survive, we need to increase the local orders. Happily, our recent analysis indicate that we are succeeding in this front, though gradually. Hope this trend continues.
Six months ago, our revenue consisted of 50% local and 50% wire-ins (negligible wire-out). That was very bad. Now it's more like 70-30. When it reaches to 90-10 or even 80-20, then we will seriously think about WS alternatives.
fairfield said:
I am qualified to answer this question, because we are exactly a new florist losing money and we carry both FTD and TF (from the previous owner).:hammer:
First of all, we are losing money, not because of WS, but in spite of it. The major loss has been in the area of local orders in which local customers order flowers to be delivered locally.
Right after we took over the operation, there was a significant drop in both the number and average price of local orders.
urpletea We have predicted this kind of drop, but the magnitude of drop was more than we had anticipated (we actually know the reasons for this drop; I can explain it some other time if people are interested).In the meatime, incoming wire orders have increased significantly, primarily because one of our competitors (six of them in our town) has dropped FTD. We became the only FTD shop in the town.
These FTD incoming orders in a way have helped reduce the money hemorrhage. It is in this context that we say we "cannot" (note the double quote) get rid of WS right now. They aren't a cash cow, we all know that, but if we got rid of it now, we would be losing more money and would likely run out of capital before we build our brand and reputation. Realistically, we predict that it takes a couple of years to build our own brand recognition.
Finally and more importantly, my position is not that our current business model is a winning model. Not at all. It sucks. It depends too much on filling those discount orders.
We know that, in order to survive, we need to increase the local orders. Happily, our recent analysis indicate that we are succeeding in this front, though gradually.
Hope this trend continues.Six months ago, our revenue consisted of 50% local and 50% wire-ins (negligible wire-out). That was very bad. Now it's more like 70-30. When it reaches to 90-10 or even 80-20, then we will seriously think about WS alternatives.
Sounds like a rough start...
Goldfish,
This sounds familiar to me. We had only one WS, though. We did about 2/1 incoming/outgoing. Kept everyone in our small shop busy, but I wasn't in business to maintain TF's payroll at the expense of our hard work.
I am interested in your answers to these questions:
How long have you had your shop?
Do you have Dove or Mercury?
Do you have a WS hosted website?
What do your WS fees total up to at the end of the month?
What do you think the outcome would be if you dropped the WS's and used that money to get your local business motivated (advertising, promotions etc.)?
What if the WS's drop to a drastically low level (happened to us in 2004)? How long can you float them (their fees don't drop just because your incoming orders do)?
These are some questions I asked myself within 6 months of buying our shop. Problem was I didn't try to answer them until the capital was gone. I thought we were going to be tied to them with no way out. We were at 60/40 local/WS when we dropped TF.
It sounds like you are a lot more on top of it than I was. Hope to see you acheive the rank of 'WS Free' soon (since that will mean your local biz is way up). Good luck!
Jason
Goldfish,
This sounds familiar to me. We had only one WS, though. We did about 2/1 incoming/outgoing. Kept everyone in our small shop busy, but I wasn't in business to maintain TF's payroll at the expense of our hard work.
I am interested in your answers to these questions:
How long have you had your shop?
Do you have Dove or Mercury?
Do you have a WS hosted website?
What do your WS fees total up to at the end of the month?
What do you think the outcome would be if you dropped the WS's and used that money to get your local business motivated (advertising, promotions etc.)?
What if the WS's drop to a drastically low level (happened to us in 2004)? How long can you float them (their fees don't drop just because your incoming orders do)?
These are some questions I asked myself within 6 months of buying our shop. Problem was I didn't try to answer them until the capital was gone. I thought we were going to be tied to them with no way out. We were at 60/40 local/WS when we dropped TF.
It sounds like you are a lot more on top of it than I was. Hope to see you acheive the rank of 'WS Free' soon (since that will mean your local biz is way up). Good luck!
Jason
answers to fairfield
We took over the operation last July, so 9 months.
We have both, inherited from the previous owner, who was a WS lover. We didn't get along partly because of it and that fall-out had quite a negative consequence. Oh well.
The prev owner had both FTD and TF web sites. We cancelled both, right after we took over which angered her. Change of the store name didn't help either. Anyway, we built our own web site using yahoo host.
About $800 for FTD and $400 for TF, including reciprocity and low-sending penalties, misc rip-off fees, and also the Eagle POS "maintenance" fee ($100) for nothing. Actually we used to be paying even more, because the previous owner had all those fancy directory ads under 20(!) additional towns. I cancelled them all except our own town.
TF should be cancelled for sure. The only reason we are stuck with it right now is because the previous owner purchased Eagle from TF and we haven't found a way to trasfer the Eagle database to some other non-TF POS system.
Cancelling FTD would have a negative financial impact at this moment (in the order of $2-3,000 a month). We are the only FTD in town and are receiving as much as $10K incoming orders a month. It's significant, even though most of the profits go to the senders as well as FTD, not to us.
From business stand-point, the big problem I see is that, even though FTD WS is still profittable, our store is too much dependent on it but for a disproportionally little profit. For example last December, we had almost 50% of revenue came from FTD incoming orders, which however contributed to only 20% of total profit before expenses. I wondered who was stealing all those money.
We can float maybe about a year, but not much longer.
fairfield said:
We took over the operation last July, so 9 months.
fairfield said:
We have both, inherited from the previous owner, who was a WS lover. We didn't get along partly because of it and that fall-out had quite a negative consequence. Oh well.
fairfield said:
The prev owner had both FTD and TF web sites. We cancelled both, right after we took over which angered her. Change of the store name didn't help either. Anyway, we built our own web site using yahoo host.
fairfield said:
About $800 for FTD and $400 for TF, including reciprocity and low-sending penalties, misc rip-off fees, and also the Eagle POS "maintenance" fee ($100) for nothing. Actually we used to be paying even more, because the previous owner had all those fancy directory ads under 20(!) additional towns. I cancelled them all except our own town.
fairfield said:
TF should be cancelled for sure. The only reason we are stuck with it right now is because the previous owner purchased Eagle from TF and we haven't found a way to trasfer the Eagle database to some other non-TF POS system.
Cancelling FTD would have a negative financial impact at this moment (in the order of $2-3,000 a month). We are the only FTD in town and are receiving as much as $10K incoming orders a month. It's significant, even though most of the profits go to the senders as well as FTD, not to us.
From business stand-point, the big problem I see is that, even though FTD WS is still profittable, our store is too much dependent on it but for a disproportionally little profit. For example last December, we had almost 50% of revenue came from FTD incoming orders, which however contributed to only 20% of total profit before expenses. I wondered who was stealing all those money.
fairfield said:
We can float maybe about a year, but not much longer.
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