FTD.com arrangements

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BigBloomers

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Jan 22, 2003
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Sorry...sort of a dumb question...

FTD.com sometimes sends us these **** orders:

12 med roses/vase/greens $38.99

I would think that for $38.99, these are roses and greens wrapped together WITH a vase....not arranged IN the vase. A designer of mine was working for another small ftd shop and they were arranging these. mind you, they weren't even doing the jaws program...They had to be losing $$$.

Well, just wanted reassurance that I was reading this all correctly... Thanks for answering my silliest question yet...

Dana
 
You make an interesting point. I never noticed the way they have it worded HERE. You could do it either way I guess, but if they sent us one it would have to be rejected as we do not participate in the cheap rose program. At least not at this time.
 
K A Hall said:
You make an interesting point. I never noticed the way they have it worded HERE. You could do it either way I guess, but if they sent us one it would have to be rejected as we do not participate in the cheap rose program. At least not at this time.
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Yes, I pay attention to EVERY WORD ON THAT ORDER. But when we got this new designer that *arranges* them, I guess I had to stop and think about it. You do have to be careful about how ftd.com WORDS things...This one always makes me laugh:

"12 mixed gerbs wrapped. May substitute in a glass vase. $29.99"
Yeah, like I'm going to just give away a glass vase and arrange it for free! Thanks for that "convenient" option, ftd.com! lol

The cheap rose program is fine for us...as long as we're still making a nice profit. The way I see it, I can have ANYONE put together a wrapped bunch of roses for $29.99 (even my 4 yr old daughter can assemble them)...But I can't have ANYONE design a $29.99 vase or basket. That means those orders can be filled by cheaper labor...combined with inexpensive grower direct flowers, the profit is just as good and less time is invested into arranging. Now, I don't know how positive I feel about filling for the .com...that's another story.

In regards to filling cheap rose orders: We have to face it...consumers want things cheap sometimes...often for a quick thank you...why not be there for them? That customer that wanted something quick and cheap this time may be a bigger fish later on...for a more significant occasion. Why should I take the chance of giving the repeat business to the supermarket or big production shop down the street? I swear, that's how our local Jewel's flower shop got so BIG. Too many picky florists drove customers to the supermarket florist. That customer going for the $10 bunch realized they also sell florist-designed vases, etc...Next thing you know, they think of Jewel when they need their next arrangement...they even deliver now! Not cool with me...

Dana
 
I do believe that in order to participate in that program you MUST list to be in the program. I personally will not stoop to their prices. I can buy my roses sometimes, and I say "sometimes" for less than .24 each but will not codify for those cheap prices. Let Home Depot do them (not delivered) don't waste my time nor the time I pay my delivery person arranged in a vase with greens, baby's breath and/or filler with beautiful ribbon bow accessorized for less than $50 like I am coded. If they want cheap roses, don't send through the wire services and don't let the wire services stoop to the levels of Proflowers. I deliver FRESH..processed professionally designed roses.
 
Rhonda said:
I deliver FRESH..processed professionally designed roses.
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So do we...And they pay for em.

But don't you ever want to buy something decent, but not really expensive? When you want to send a friend a box of chocolate for a simple "thank you for dinner", do you always send a $70 box of Godiva? I can't afford that just to say thanks for dinner! However, I can afford to send a $200 birthday gift to my brother in law. Now, would you be pompous and turn me away because I can only spend $30 on a simple thank you THIS time around....not realizing that I make over 6 figures and buy nicer gifts for more significant occasions? You never know what kind of customer you're turning away. Now if filling an order like that is COSTING you money with no profit, then of course you shouldn't take it. But if it costs me $5.85 a doz wrapped with filler and greens and it's a direct order, I'm profiting for sure...and picking up a customer that may order again. Granted, I'd certainly want to entice them with the better stuff for next time!

Now we all know wire ins suck...there's no $ in any of the low dollar garbage...I think we'll make about $7 off each $29.99 doz rose INcoming (after cogs, labor, delivery, ws fees incl monthly member fees, gas and milage, etc) . That's not so great...but (glass half full) at least our name is getting out there...Our truck goes down another street, to another address...all publicity just from driving...another chance to send a coupon out without the cost of a stamp...I think it all adds up to something...? Believe me, I'm not excited about these wi's...just thinking positive :)

Finally, I would *never* want to send an order like this to another florist....So no one get any crazy ideas about sending me more of this garbage! lol If it comes, we can fill it...But it's just because I want to be there for my customers whenever they need me, no matter what they need!

Dana
 
Rhonda said:
I can buy my roses sometimes, and I say "sometimes" for less than .24 each but will not codify for those cheap prices. arranged in a vase with greens, baby's breath and/or filler with beautiful ribbon bow accessorized for less than $50 like I am coded.
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hmmm...If you don't sell ANY cheap roses in your store, but you're BUYING the same $0.24 roses that I'm selling for much much less...does that mean that you're using $0.24 roses, adding fillers, greens, vase and bow and charging over $50? Cuz when I charge over $50, I use Rios...and they don't cost anywhere near $0.24 each...for a reason.

Dana
 
Dana do you Honestly believe

THat most of those cheap orders, there is someone rich behind that may come in after and spend a substantial amount of money.
I don't think so. Those are the same people that are going to those grocery store & box store to get their flowers It just happen that person needed the same flowers in a nother town at the same price they pay in their home town. I am sorry I will not stoop so low to fill a ,com order if I am not making the money I am supose to make. It is hard enough these days to make a $$$$. FTD.com sent you this order because they could not get their filling centre to do it in time for them to make their profit so they went to a florist.
It is all part of doing business if I can make a little bit extra profits if I can get a better price on a product like Rhonda. WE all do it, sometime we make extra, sometime we loose somewhere else and it all evens out.
If I feel to give my local customer a special because I got a better price than I will. It will not be a wire service that will dictate to me how I AM going to sell in my town.
If all florist would stand up to the wire services, they would have to give away. Beware of FTD, they havea filling centre to fill direct orders, they are a flower wholesaler now...What's next? THey say they are helping you, but they take away potential $$$$ of you....
Luc
 
My $50 roses are 60 cm hydroponically grown Opiums that I pay on average $.85. If I get an order for other color roses, typically if I have the .24 then the price is less, usually $35/doz. I have wholesalers here every day (trucks) Two on Mon & Wed, one on each other weekday. They all carry roses various colors, so if I get a wire in for roses, I am paying more than 24 cents for them if I get them off the trucks. Especially specific colors. If I have purchased from flowerbuyer for cheap prices, they are usually sold at $9.99 out the door wrapped.
 
FTD "cheap"rose deal

BigBloomers said:
hmmm...If you don't sell ANY cheap roses in your store, but you're BUYING the same $0.24 roses that I'm selling for much much less...does that mean that you're using $0.24 roses, adding fillers, greens, vase and bow and charging over $50? Cuz when I charge over $50, I use Rios...and they don't cost anywhere near $0.24 each...for a reason.

Dana
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I too use RIO's for regular orders. However for the 29-39.99 FTD orders we use roses that cost less than $0.40 thus total cogs on the roses is $4.80.

I'll take the 5-7X markup anyday....
 
Rhonda said:
If I have purchased from flowerbuyer for cheap prices, they are usually sold at $9.99 out the door wrapped.
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Luc...I know and agree that .com is a bust for us...Believe me, I'm not supporting filling every single pain in the a** order they send. We reject the orders we can't fill profitably. But if the cheap roses are going to our town or very close, then we'll fill it. And especially if we have other orders going to the same area....we don't go out of our way for this junk!

Because if you can afford to sell a bunch for under $10 and make a profit, and you take out another $10 for FTD, then you still have $10 for delivery, etc...Again, NOT a big profit at all, and it DOES suck, but it's just a way for us to remind our neighbors that we're (still) here.

I've read a lot of (your) posts about recipient marketing...and I can agree that most people that receive flowers don't send them. But we do quite a bit of event work, and we have received $1000's of dollars in event biz from the recipients of our everyday gifts. Again, the gift may not have been profitable, but eventually it paid off. Now maybe that doesn't work for a shop that's been there for 75 years...but it works for us, since we've only been around for about 4.

As for direct orderers of cheap roses, I'll agree that there are plenty of people that do just buy the cheap stuff. And honestly, what I pay for labor around here, I would much rather send out something wrapped than spend $$ to send out some cheap basket of cheer.

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to everyday arrangements...We focus on event work...which takes up 6 full days of our week. We send and receive orders at a rock-bottom second to our event biz. So I'm not arguing any point here...Just stirring up some conversation :)

As for fighting the .coms....I guess I think that's a losing battle. There are under 400 members on this board and maybe a handful more from the others. EVERY SINGLE florist I know in this area are TOTALLY CLUELESS to all of this. They'll take EVERY single order from every single og and .com there is...and be proud of it. So how is it that if I stop taking a few local orders with a low profit margin that I will be able to stop them from offering this to customers...or better yet, get them to go out of biz? It takes one big collaborative effort to "overthrow" the government...not just a few rebels here and there. It's not like voting....when the big guys see that a bunch of us turn away orders, they, in turn, open fc's. So if we can't ALL get our acts together at ONE TIME and stop filling, then the few rebels are actually making matters worse...by preparing the .coms for what lies ahead.

Ok, long enough message...(That should stir up some controversy...I've been overworked and kinda bored around here lately :) )

Dana
 
BigBloomers said:
It's not like voting....when the big guys see that a bunch of us turn away orders, they, in turn, open fc's. So if we can't ALL get our acts together at ONE TIME and stop filling, then the few rebels are actually making matters worse...by preparing the .coms for what lies ahead.

Ok, long enough message...(That should stir up some controversy...I've been overworked and kinda bored around here lately :) )

Dana
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Well now, if the big guys need to open up fc's(fullfiment centers) then let them. We'll see if this added expence of operations will make those OG's more money or less.

I in turn cannot change folks minds about the .coms or this or that so that is why I went to No WS and F2F orders. It gives us a chance to be us again without having to waist time and money rejecting nonsence orders generated from the call centers of the .DOT

:tread: see this little guy on the treadmill? those are those florists in your town Dana......
 
Don't need a colaborative effort.

Dana, it does not take a colaborative effort to make these changes.

I'm not advocating that everyone drop the WS or that florists refuse orders. This whole thing is a study in math numbers. Take a town that has three florists and they all receive about the same number of incoming orders per month. Let's just say to keep the math simple that each florist gets approximately 40 each per month and one florist decides to drop their WS. The first thing that happens the following month is the other two florists both receive approximately 20 more discounted orders each. An increase of 50%. Their outgoing numbers didn't change, so now they both have negitive ratios. Even if they were filling all incoming orders to full value previously, they now have to review that policy. If they continue to fill to value with a negitive ratio, they will have one problem. If they decide to "shave" these incoming order, to reduce the loss factor, their arrangements will appear smaller than the other florists in the area and they lose again.

All of this because one florist made a change in how they do their business. This is not far fetched. With OG's and ,com operations all around of, instead of letting the other local florists in your area just take some of garbage orders, let them have all of them. Discounted business is still dsicounted business. Fastest way I know to get rid of your competition- over eating!
 
I heard about a local florist (to us Dana) who is (or going to) go out of business because she took all the WS incoming orders she could. She is up to her eyeballs in debt and is (or has) just walked away. So Griff's "math" lesson is really on the ball.

Judy
 
evergreen12377 said:
I heard about a local florist (to us Dana) who is (or going to) go out of business because she took all the WS incoming orders she could. She is up to her eyeballs in debt and is (or has) just walked away. So Griff's "math" lesson is really on the ball.

Judy
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Where on earth is that coming from???? We certainly don't take all the incoming orders we are sent...like I said, just orders where we have bigger orders going already...

And you personally know that our business is events...not ws orders. If we ever "go out of biz" it's because I get sick of dealing with brides...not ftd.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed that the boards are slow...So I'm shooting out some bs to get you all hopping again. I'll gladly stick to preaching about corsages and event production work....

Dana
 
Griff said:
Take a town that has three florists and they all receive about the same number of incoming orders per month. Let's just say to keep the math simple that each florist gets approximately 40 each per month and one florist decides to drop their WS. The first thing that happens the following month is the other two florists both receive approximately 20 more discounted orders each. An increase of 50%.

Griff, that's not how it works. When a florist signs up to fill for FTD.COM they give them all the zips they deliver to. For example: In our area there are many, many shops that deliver to our city and likewise we to their's. So if one of three shops in a city drops FTD all the orders for that city do not automatically go to the other two shops. Many other shops in surrounding cities get those orders also. I WISH it was like you say as then WE would have all the deliveries for our city instead of sharing and then getting far deliveries I'd rather not have.

This little piece of info may be totally irrelevant, but thought I'd let you know it's just not like that. There is a lot of random stuff going on too. Also when a shop gets a good reputation for delivering quick or late or far and late together then you get lots more orders. We learned and this time around we are not allowing that to happen.
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Griff is right ....

to a point. Maybe thats the way it would work in an area, with 3 shops, that do not have any other shops delivering into their market, someplace sort of isolated.

But just like in my delivery area of 600+ square miles, there are only 2 FTD shops in the city "proper" but when you include the intire delivery area, and the shops that delivery into it from other cities the number climbs to near 30.

Many of these come into Midland from areas we do not service, like Bay City and Saginaw. Many of them do it on orders, for both their customers and for the WS's, and especially 800Flowers for orders less than $30.00 and with delivery charges less than $7-8.00.

Makes no sense to me, why they do it, except the 800F members cuz they have no choice, and many of them are going broke, but it is not because of the WS orders, it is because they are not smart enuf to either say NO, or to actually look at their businesses and figure out they are not making any profit.

Like I said before, I'll fill the 30 dollar rose orders, because I make money on them. BUt, I won;t deliver them outside my city limits. The reason FTD started doing the @@@@ things anyway was to try to fight ProFlowers and the other direct shippers. Florists got mad that FTD was shipping them, so then FTD made the offer to have the florists fill them. NOw the florists are mad that they are getting low ball orders...

Dang folks, ya can not have it both ways !!!
 
A little "thread drift". I guess. Best to do for your shop what is best for you. We are all different and do things differently. Most is just "talk".

Judy
 
Hummm, seems to me that we need to look at the real cost here. A $29.99 ws order from FTD.com is going to give you $20, then minus the cost of the roses even at $4.80 leaves you with $15.20. Take out the delivery charge which should be at least $6 and you now have $9.80. Take out the labor charge on this, and lets not forget that labor is not just the designer, it is also processing the roses and you have what? maybe $4 left? All of this for a bunch of wrapped roses that are not going to impress anyone because they look just like the roses you can buy at Safeway. IF you include a vase, even a cheap stock vase, then you can deduct another $1 or $2 bucks off of this and now you have wasted your time and roses and cooler spance for a whopping $2....... Now I am one of those people that believe that you can build your business by using the wire services wisley. However, I do not belive that taking cheap rose orders is a wise use...

Jim
 
BOSS said:
Like I said before, I'll fill the 30 dollar rose orders, because I make money on them. BUt, I won;t deliver them outside my city limits. The reason FTD started doing the @@@@ things anyway was to try to fight ProFlowers and the other direct shippers. Florists got mad that FTD was shipping them, so then FTD made the offer to have the florists fill them. NOw the florists are mad that they are getting low ball orders...

Dang folks, ya can not have it both ways !!!
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THANK YOU for typing that. No, you can't have it both ways...and I prefer for the flower business...whatever it may be...stay with US. To do that, I think we have to consider breaking down the "I'm too good for you" wall and "stoop" to the customer's level. It makes me sick when I see roses sold at gas stations, quickie marts, liquor stores, hardware stores, and so on. FLORISTS let that business go. And like you, Boss, if it's close, and it's profitable, then I'll take it. If it's far and we don't have deliveries out that way from OUR customers, then they go in the can. But to reject orders just because we don't like the *concept* of selling roses cheap...well, that doesn't work for us. I hate the idea of selling roses cheap, too...believe me...I am very proud of the nice arrangements we send out. I wish everyone wanted to spend $65 on roses every time they order, but they don't. And I'd rather have that person order flowers from a florist than from a gas station...as long as I'm making something from it. And I'd rather spend $.50 on labor to wrap a cheap order than $3 to arrange...so that's why we reject most small arranged orders...especially vased.

Curious: Why the h#*d on for JUST the wrapped roses?

Dana
 
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