H.S.T. Canadian florists verses FTD/Teleflora.com

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

Just curious how Canadian florists in provinces where they have H.S.T. serviced orders from FTD and specially Teleflora this past Christmas.
We ended up just rejecting almost every order as they were waaaay under value when you deducted the Tax.
Here's an example, Teleflora's "Send a Hug" bouquet sent to us for $44.95 U.S. Dollars
When you add the 5% exchange and then deduct the H.S.T. you end up with $38.75 to fill and deliver........and when the delivery charge is $9.95 you have $29.81 left for flowers and the container which costs $8.26 including freight leaving $21.55 for 2 stems red minis, 3 1/2 stems poms 1/3 block foam, Christmas greens including holly, red berries and ribbons (available in accessory pack) which we did not buy.
Oh yah and the want us to put it all together as shown in the picture for that price!!
Sure didn't happen in our shop this Christmas, rejected every one of them (18) in our small town shop........how many did florists in big cities reject or could you fill them and make any $$$ after all was said and done.......oh and they want a Dcon on top of all that!

Just a quick additional note: the exchange Jan 1st goes to 0% so our dollar will be at par, that's another 5% down the tubes for incoming from U.S.

 

[BOSS]

John, once you include labour are all those orders coming in at a loss?

In your small community, I find it hard to believe that TF would get that many orders, I wonder which OG they were from....

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

John, once you include labour are all those orders coming in at a loss?

In your small community, I find it hard to believe that TF would get that many orders, I wonder which OG they were from....

Teleflora kicked a$$ this Christmas......advertising on Ottawa radio stations and magazines etc. $10.00 off when ordering @teleflora.com

 

[artistry in bloom]

I don't belong to Teleflora or Ftd but I find that many florists that call direct don't realize or object to the fact that I have to charge HST. The law here is any good or service that is "delivered" or purchased in this province has to pay HST not where the order originated from. We also now have to pay HST for wholesale flowers and all supplies so if we don't charge the HST we are automatically at a loss of 12%.

Dianne

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

it's time to understand, that MANY countries have and deal with HST type taxes......many shops are guilty of "ignoring" the fact that in the not too distant future, EVERY democratic nation WILL HAVE the consumption tax, even the US...it's on it's way!!
Our overseas cousins have been dealing with the "throughput" tax much longer than many of us, and in the end, once the smoke and mirrors has cleared, it DOES "affect" consumers", but, is largely just a little "friendlier" (if I might tout THAT oxymoron) to businesses, in nations where the harmonized taxes are " refunded" to the end of the sales chain!!
The larger OG's, ESPECIALLY those collecting orders under anonimity, and disguised by wire services, WILL BE dealt with!!( it's in draft)
The tax WILL NOT BE OF ANY EFFECT, if you DON'T buy anything....(stupid psychology, I KNOW!!), but, as an example, WHY should YOU pay taxes, on a broad based spectrum taxation, if say, you live out of country, or retire elswhere...it truly is a little more "balanced" (yes, go and yuk)
Here's how we dealt with those order John....."sorry, we need 49.95 for the arrangement, 14,95 for the delivery, and the input tax, for the grand total of ($) to fill this order.....please cancel, if unable to meet this requirement"!
We got upwards of 40 bucks on more than 6 such orders John!
Almost none were cancelled, and all were filled!!

 

[Gracie]

We did the same as Mikey - thank you for your order, we need $xx to fill it, please send price adjustment or cancel. It's amazing how many times the price adjustment comes through, probably about 75%.

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

We did the same as Mikey - thank you for your order, we need $xx to fill it, please send price adjustment or cancel. It's amazing how many times the price adjustment comes through, probably about 75%.

We also did that with ones that were $10.00 or so short but the ones that were way under value some as much as $25.00 or $30.00 we just sent a can message, as they likely would ask to can the order then you have to confirm etc. Too much time wasted for nothing!!!
And we learned the hard way......your name is on the order and if it's not just like the picture or of reasonable value it's your name that's MUD and not the dot.com that took the under priced order!!

 

[BOSS]

EVERY democratic nation WILL HAVE the consumption tax, even the US...it's on it's way!!

I'm OK with that....

There is talk here about a National Sales tax... somewhere around 22% which would be fine, as then there would be no state or national income tax. A "flat tax" so to speak, that would equalize taxation, as those that want "toys" would be paying for them and those that don't would not...

 

[prestonway]

I'm OK with that....

There is talk here about a National Sales tax... somewhere around 22% which would be fine, as then there would be no state or national income tax. A "flat tax" so to speak, that would equalize taxation, as those that want "toys" would be paying for them and those that don't would not...

Did you actually say 22%, Mr. Bossman Sir???

Holy crap!!!

On a side note...the Canadian dollar has closed at par to the U.S. dollar for the third day in a row...

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Did you actually say 22%, Mr. Bossman Sir???

Holy crap!!!

On a side note...the Canadian dollar has closed at par to the U.S. dollar for the third day in a row...

I think you're old enough to remember the Reform Party's platform of "flat taxation.....our roundtable discussions centred around 22% at the time!

 

[theRKF]

"Reeffooooorrrrrrrmmmmm.... I love that word!"

Ah, yes ... Classic Air Farce

 

[kt4ye]

I'm OK with that....

There is talk here about a National Sales tax... somewhere around 22% which would be fine, as then there would be no state or national income tax. A "flat tax" so to speak, that would equalize taxation, as those that want "toys" would be paying for them and those that don't would not...

I wish it were so!

But what appears possible is a consumption tax while RETAINING the state and National income tax.

#SIGH#

Bill

 

[BOSS]

I wish it were so!

But what appears possible is a consumption tax while RETAINING the state and National income tax.

#SIGH#

Bill

Yea Bill, I know.... it'll be another one of the bombs they lob out there, that will in time result in bullets going back the other way...

 

[Flowermomma]

I did much the same.
I did the math and sent back a request for a price increase.
when it came from FTD head office they never once increased the price they always canceled.
Other shops well I only had one that I requested more money and they did come up in price.

I have sinced dropped FTD/Teleflora and will only be using IRIS to send/recieve.

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

will only be using IRIS to send/recieve.

Are they still around....and do they have any members or are you sending to them so they can transfer your order via FTD or Teleflora?

 

[Flowermomma]

yes they are still around

Are they still around....and do they have any members or are you sending to them so they can transfer your order via FTD or Teleflora?

and if more people would sign up it would be easier to use them!

They are suppose to this year put out a listing of the shops who are IRIS so we can pick who we send to.

I have been known to call the head office and flat out ask if they have a IRIS store in that town. IF not then I just sent it on my store credit card.

 

[holland1]

BBJ is dead right that it's pointless to accept these orders if your going to be selling at a loss or taking all the grief from the customer who sees a very minimal arrangement being delivered that's nothing like the picture on the Internet. But it may be better to throw the ball back in Teleflora's court and let them know the true cost of filling these orders rather than getting stuck with the $1.75 (or is $1.25) transmission charge when you simply refuse the order.

Our policy on this is quite simple. If we have the required flowers and container, we'll fill orders for anyone who sends them for the price we have posted on our website, and we'll gladly pay a sending commission to any florist who sends us an order at that price, either directly or through Teleflora or FSN. (We dropped FTD at the end of last August). But we will not facilitate anyone else selling in direct competition with us at a price below what we have to charge our own customers.

I think Mikey has the right approach on this. Just go back with an ASK for your standard price for the item , your delivery charge and the HST. No point in low-balling the cost because you're afraid the sender might be shocked. We've been living with HST here in Newfoundland for years now and our COGs is considerably higher than Ontario because of our added freight cost. We are tired of having to explain to sending florists that we have to collect 13% sales tax on every order we fill. But I'm amazed at how often the dot coms and the OGs come though with the extra funds required. I guess it's more trouble for them to go back to their customer to explain why they can't fill the order than it is to eat the price difference on the few orders they send out our way. That all might change now that the HST applies in Ontario and BC where there is a much higher volume of orders to contend with.

That said, we continue to have a problem with Teleflora HQ and other OGs who often just don't get it when you go back with the real price. What we find is that they keep sending the same order over and over, sometime with a price adjustment nowhere near what we asked for. In these cases, we simply send a clear message asking what part or our original ASK reply did they not understand. I agree this can be a real pain at busy times like Christmas and Valentines. In these cases, a simple REJECT might be the better response as BBJ suggests.



My biggest beef with Teleflora HQ (as it was with FTD before we left) is that they send orders at ridiculous prices, often well below their own SRP. These guys know the wholesale cost of the flowers used in their arrangement since they run their own wholesale services for member florists who care to buy from them. And the prices of their codified containers are often absurd. If they want to sell the Big Hug or any other codified arrangement at the kind of prices they are advertising, they are welcome to get in a van and drive all the way out here to deliver. Otherwise, they'll have to get used to paying a realistic price.