Legal definition of "long-stem rose"

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Simon Says

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Apr 1, 2011
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Does anyone know what the legal definition of "long-stem rose" is, preferably in the USA? I know a couple of former domestic/US rose growers who say it is a 40cm or greater but I have my doubts about that. Is there an authority one this specific definition?

I know that the WS are very circumspect on this and rarely seem to use the term "long-stem" to describe a rose under 50cm -although there does appear to an error (or is it?) on the TF current site with T12V11 Endless Kisses on the V-Day page.
 
In my store medium-50cm. Long at least 60's. usually 70-80
Even if the customer wants them cut short. We use 60-70 cm for head size
Never use 40's any more except for small arrangements or vases and we do those veer rarely
 
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back in the day when we had locally grown roses you paid long stem price for anything over 24"

now everything is advertised as florist quality and Long stem. even 30cm.......
 
Maybe while we are working on this we could get the government to set a legal definition for "great meal", "good value", "quality work", and "common sense". Why not, it's not like the government has too many regulations already or actually interferes in our lives to any great extent. As a people we certainly need more supervision, this rose issue is a call to action.

It's important to our industry that we get clarification on these critical matters immediately, in fact it is a testament to ingenuity that there are still any flowers retailers in existence when no one can define whether a long stem rose is 20", 24" or 27" long. My suggestion would be for the government to pass consumer protection legislation to prevent the retailing and importation of roses until such as time as congress can address this problem in detail, the only other option would be to have President Obama sign an executive order. I would suggest that a rally similar to the Keystone Pipeline one where we could have flower retailers circle the White House by the thousands brandishing roses and calling for standards. The sooner the better in my opinion as the government is unaware of the danger this issue poses to consumers.

While we are at it, I believe that we also should rally for a legal definition on the terms "bunch","florist", and "quality" as these are misused more than the term "long stem".

I wonder if Ralph Nader would support our cause?
 
Your sarcasm and wit is much appreciated Doug, you got me to laugh ~ probably because absurdly enough, there are people who would wholeheartedly agree that legislation is needed.

In all seriousness though, this very topic is why I've changed from "long-stemmed" to "Super Long Stem" in order to differentiate to a clueless consumer. When you advertise your long-stemmed and that long-stemmed rose is 40cm, consumers wonder why MY long -stemmed roses are a higher price. Since I've been unable to stoop to a lower standard rose (imo), this was the road I decided to take.
 
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Doug Munro said:
Maybe while we are working on this we could get the government to set a legal definition for "great meal", "good value", "quality work", and "common sense". Why not, it's not like the government has too many regulations already or actually interferes in our lives to any great extent. As a people we certainly need more supervision, this rose issue is a call to action.

It's important to our industry that we get clarification on these critical matters immediately, in fact it is a testament to ingenuity that there are still any flowers retailers in existence when no one can define whether a long stem rose is 20", 24" or 27" long. My suggestion would be for the government to pass consumer protection legislation to prevent the retailing and importation of roses until such as time as congress can address this problem in detail, the only other option would be to have President Obama sign an executive order. I would suggest that a rally similar to the Keystone Pipeline one where we could have flower retailers circle the White House by the thousands brandishing roses and calling for standards. The sooner the better in my opinion as the government is unaware of the danger this issue poses to consumers.

While we are at it, I believe that we also should rally for a legal definition on the terms "bunch","florist", and "quality" as these are misused more than the term "long stem".

I wonder if Ralph Nader would support our cause?
Click to expand...

Doug,

While you type about government legal definition, note that I, quite specifically, typed "...definitive case law reference". There is a substantial difference between case law and legislative laws, certainly under the English judicial system, the essence of both US and Canadian law.

Linda, with her response in the second paragraph, is correct when she writes that the average consumer does not know from the majority of images on the Internet what size rose arrangements are and only a given stem-length helps to clarify the situation.
 
Simon Says said:
Linda, with her response in the second paragraph, is correct when she writes that the average consumer does not know from the majority of images on the Internet what size rose arrangements are and only a given stem-length helps to clarify the situation.
Click to expand...


Simon, it goes much further than images in an ad or on the internet. What I'm trying to get across to everyone is that if I tell a person "Yes, I have long-stemmed roses" and sell them 40cm and they COME AND PICK THEM UP, they will accept them as long-stemmed.

I reiterate - they are clueless as to what constitutes a long stem.
 
anytimeflowers said:
Simon, it goes much further than images in an ad or on the internet. What I'm trying to get across to everyone is that if I tell a person "Yes, I have long-stemmed roses" and sell them 40cm and they COME AND PICK THEM UP, they will accept them as long-stemmed.

I reiterate - they are clueless as to what constitutes a long stem.
Click to expand...


Agree. Maybe I should have written "...only a given stem-length such as 24" helps to clarify the situation."

A quick search on Proflowers, for example, of " long stem" results in numerous roses but none, that I could see, that, once arranged, result in anything greater than 20" (50cm). Whether those are 50cm or (more likely?) 40cm is purely a guess....which is really the issue were discussing.
 
Simon Says said:
Doug,

While you type about government legal definition, note that I, quite specifically, typed "...definitive case law reference". There is a substantial difference between case law and legislative laws, certainly under the English judicial system, the essence of both US and Canadian law.

Linda, with her response in the second paragraph, is correct when she writes that the average consumer does not know from the majority of images on the Internet what size rose arrangements are and only a given stem-length helps to clarify the situation.
Click to expand...

My underlying point is not about the fine legal points involved but rather about the apparent need for many on this board to continuously grasp at straws looking for a "chink in the armor" of WS's or OG's.The bottom line is that any talk about "educating" the consumer on the definition of a long stem rose is a pie in the sky dream that would require resources the stand alone florist community does not have.

On the other hand, big companies like Pro Flowers do have the resources and have a much better chance of convincing the consumer that a 40cm Rose is indeed a "long stem" than any of us will have stating otherwise.

In a nutshell my suggestion is the same as it always is, put the effort into building your own business. The fact that the industry has changes just means the retailer has to as well. Clinging to old ideas and definitions will simply lead to your demise.
 
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Asking if there is a legal definition of something -be it under statute or case law- is not necessarily looking for chinks in armor, although David that useful when he met Goliath. No it is simply asking a question to ensure that my business building effort, howsoever I go about it, works within the parameters of the law whether I like those boundaries or not.
 
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I like your style. Does it really matter what the length as long as your customers are satisfied and they call them "long stems"? My customers remark on how long my flowers last after they receive them. That's what I want to hear. I'm more interested in having quality product rather than can I legally call them long stems.
 
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pnelker said:
I like your style. Does it really matter what the length as long as your customers are satisfied and they call them "long stems"? My customers remark on how long my flowers last after they receive them. That's what I want to hear. I'm more interested in having quality product rather than can I legally call them long stems.
Click to expand...

Quality & appropriate longevity should be a given...length unfortunately isn't.
 
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