No TECH, no order ??

[BOSS]

First of all, this is not about anyONE form of technology over the other, also, it is not about either WS over the other, so lets try to refrain from derailing this important topic (I think) with teams, cuz this could happen to you. This is also, not a pick at F2F members.

I have thought up alot of schemes over the years, but I must admit that this one never crossed my mind.

A friend of mine, posted elsewhere and I talked to him today, about some phone orders he supposedly sent to other florists. While checking his Wire Rec, he found several, all placed the same day to various florists around the country. All were phone orders and the caller used his WS account number, and phone number. (Still remains to be seen if there is any link, traceable).

But think about this for a minute, anyone, florist (God forbid), former florist, former employee, or even someone that dug out a directory from a dumpster. And not to think about cross WSing it.

How do you know? We rarely have a problem with a wire in. We do not usually call the shop back for any reason, or have further contact with them. Yes we all have lists of florists we know and trust, but how many of your orders are from those florists?

I must admit, I'll be looking closer. Do you think there will come a day, when we can no longer trust the phone and the only orders you'll accept must come in some form of technology, wether it be a shop management system, trusted email, of fax?

 

[Blue Oyster Cult]

Ok, Here's the BEEF!

This order(s) were called out with a current WS members number and after the statement was received the problem was discovered. I would have been on the phone all day with the Vendor of choice who I'm doing business with.

Seems to be a flaw in this network system now...and those folks who say they will not take an order via phone from a member who has a sending system noted in the Directory like in Dove or Merc?...I'm not sure how that senerio would play out in a challange in a court of law.

Geez..Your Vendor should do something about this serious flaw.
Can you say Verification WS Code?

When I was with the Vendor service I had a few jems burn me too.

 

[BBJ (Big Bad John)]

But think about this for a minute, anyone, florist (God forbid), former florist, former employee, or even someone that dug out a directory from a dumpster. And not to think about cross WSing it.

That's another good reason for the wire services to stop sending out printed directories! Only members without technology should get one and then only on loan to be returned when it expires so that it can't get into the wrong hands!

Will never happen though...too big a money maker for them, and we all pay the price!

 

[Rhonda]

I have learned that some shops call out orders before getting listed, normally I probably would do the same if I was a new shop with the WS. BUT I have learned to check with headquarters if they don't show up on my DISCS (don't use the door stops)
I won't accept any 800 orders unless by Merc (and they have put me on do not send to list, duh) for specific reasons, like most likely need more money. I find it hard to believe that anyone in a wire service now does not have any type of technology. I prefer the paper and electronic transfer (as long as my pc is running and the printer is online, yes it does happen)

 

[George Simon]

Seems to me that such a thing can be easily traced back, as long as the victimized florist catches the bogus order(s).
The receiving shop must have the recipient's name and address. The recipient most likely will know who sent the flowers and the sender will know who he/she ordered from.
I'm sure all technology programs do this, so I'm not plugging flowerSoft in any way when I say that, we check every order in the combined report against the orders database. If a match isn't found, the entry is marked as an exception and printed out. So this sort of thing can only affect florists without technolofy and/or those who do not use their technology to do more than just order entry.

 

[jbarb]

We had a few duplicated orders for V-day, all of them were credited back to us the next month with out a problem. But I do think there is a definet opportunity for fraud here. I know several florists that don't even reconcile their WS statements.. I supposed they get what is coming to them if they do that, but just the same you have to wonder what the % of shops are that do not even look to see if they are being charged for something that they did not send....

 

[BOSS]

I'm sure all technology programs do this, so I'm not plugging flowerSoft in any way when I say that, we check every order in the combined report against the orders database. If a match isn't found, the entry is marked as an exception and printed out. So this sort of thing can only affect florists without technolofy and/or those who do not use their technology to do more than just order entry.

Yes George, I too would think all do, I know mine does, whether its a penny off, wrong date, misspelled name it's put on the exception list to be checked...

Thing is, it's usually a few weeks (or months) before the order shows up on any report...and that technology is removed from the loop when the phone is used.

It would be very easy for someone with industry knowledge and the data, to be able to call out hundreds of orders for say MD, and then disappear. The damage would not show up until mid June, and a month later, what are you going to do, ask the recipient for the empty vase back?

It will be interesting to see what comes of this traceback....

 

[carol]

A point in favor of wire services

This sceniaro has happened in the past to another florist here in town.. If you catch these fraudulant orders.. and you should find them easily by checking your wire service or cc reports.. you can easily dispute them with the wire service and unless the receiving shop can justify them you are re imbursed.. not quite so easy if you do it all by cc/ but I guess you can dispute them with the cc company.. usually takes them 6 months to do anything..but both wire services regulate this well .. I agree with Mark about technology.. it is the only way to stay afloat in this brave new world we have

 

[Luc]

Dark ages...

Unfortunately there is some shops out there that like to live in the Dark ages of phoning orders in instead of having a merc or even a dove system.
TO me this is a case of fraud on the shop that used your friend number. This can be a mistake and if the Wire Service gets many complaints about a shop using this practice monthly, They should be terminated ASAP and charges files against them. Like a earlier post, lots of shop don't reconcile reports thining it has to be right. I have done errors before and was corrected by a shop and I have found errors in my favors.
THink of this scheme: Charging you for a outgoing order on a incoming report. That is right, they sent me the order then charged it back as a incoming to them. THey did this 2 months in a row with the same order.
I have seen many double charged order by phone on my reports also.
With technology these days it should not happen.
Now If I was a wire service, I would lower my price for my merc or dove and insist that a flower shop that is associated witht hat wire service use this service.
In the long run it would save $$$$$$ to a lot of florist and WS.
Sometime the phone is needed for new shops that are not in the directory yet since they are just signed up etc.
Luc

 

[Griff]

Excuse my sarcasm, but...

because a florist gets some faudulent charges on their monthly WS statement created by someone using the six digit ID number, we have other flroists talking about not accepting telephone orders from florists or eliminating directories or expressing the idea that everyone should have to have an electronic sending system <technology>. Hog wash!

This industry has had non-foral companies get into our industry because of the 20-80 commission program. They are called OG's. They use the same technology as you do. If you belong to a WS, your whole program is centered around that 6 digit number because that is how YOU get paid. Whether you had directories or didn't have directories, it wouldn't matter. That number would become available sooner or later.

If you want to stop the nonsense, track all the receiving florists. Ask them who these orders went to and the phone numbers of the receipents. Call the recepients and find who the senders were. Contact the senders and ask who they gave the order to. It is most likely a single florist or an OG. Then prosecute.

One of the beauties of accepting a florist order and being paid by a CC is you will never have a problem like this. It is your system. Don't blame the problem on the fact that not everyone has YOUR level of technology. Blame it on the people who are learning to take advantage of YOUR system!

 

[BOSS]

Was not my point Griff...

And yes, thankfully this is a very minor occurance. And yes too, the F2F folks are immune to this type of attack as are those of us that use various forms of technology...

Point was, if this becomes a problem will the phone become a source of concern.

If one florist caught it, how many others do not? As we know, alot do not reconcile for some strange reason...

 

[bloomz]

This sceniaro has happened in the past to another florist here in town.. If you catch these fraudulant orders.. and you should find them easily by checking your wire service or cc reports.. you can easily dispute them with the wire service and unless the receiving shop can justify them you are re imbursed.. not quite so easy if you do it all by cc/ but I guess you can dispute them with the cc company.. usually takes them 6 months to do anything..but both wire services regulate this well .. I agree with Mark about technology.. it is the only way to stay afloat in this brave new world we have

Carol,
I'm pretty sure the responsibility with knowing it's a valid code rests with the filling end. This is something very good that the advantage users have (and merc direct too I believe) the ability to get CURRENT directories.

But this is the reason that the ws's send out those suspended shops lists, to put the resonsibilty back on us.

That said, in 11 years I don't think I have taken a fraud one, tho one ws rep once told me a story about someone in Prison knowing how to phone out wire orders and I bet they got LOTS of cigarettes for helping the fellows out.

 

[George Simon]

Thing is, it's usually a few weeks (or months) before the order shows up on any report...and that technology is removed from the loop when the phone is used.

Not necessarely. Phone orders are reported in the combined report. Same principle applies. Your technology checks the combined report against your existing orders database. If there is no match, it becomes an exeption.

 

[BOSS]

Not necessarely. Phone orders are reported in the combined report. Same principle applies. Your technology checks the combined report against your existing orders database. If there is no match, it becomes an exeption.

True, but....often times on orders near the EOM, they miss the cut off date and thusly do not show up until the following month. And if the florist is really lax, they may not show up for another month...

 

[George Simon]

I think the biggest problem is with florists not checking their combined report. Why don't they check it? Because, to be quite honest, if you don't have the technology in place, it is quite a job to check those reports.

I know quite a few florists who purposely do not use their technologing when sending orders. Some claim that they prefer the personal touch and relationship that making the call gives them with the filling florist. I think most do it because they know that some of those orders will go un-reported or reported a couple of months down the road.

 

[BOSS]

Some claim that they prefer the personal touch and relationship that making the call gives them with the filling florist. I think most do it because they know that some of those orders will go un-reported or reported a couple of months down the road.

For me, and I would think any other high volume shop, I do NOT want the "personal" touch as it wastes too much time !!! That said, I will call another owner, to discuss funeral flowers, I have even wired whole weddings, but once the clarifications have been agreed upon, I still Merc the thing to have a hard copy record.

And honestly, do they think they'll get better service because they talked to me? Not in my store, every order is treated the same.

And yes, sadly that is the main reason many still call out orders, as many do go unreported.

 

[Audra]

For me, and I would think any other high volume shop, I do NOT want the "personal" touch as it wastes too much time !!! That said, I will call another owner, to discuss funeral flowers, I have even wired whole weddings, but once the clarifications have been agreed upon, I still Merc the thing to have a hard copy record.

And honestly, do they think they'll get better service because they talked to me? Not in my store, every order is treated the same.

And yes, sadly that is the main reason many still call out orders, as many do go unreported.

Unfortunately for us, we have to call out some orders because we're dealing with towns with populations of under 4,000. In rare instances, I will call on orders that are nitpicky. I recently called Mikey because I wanted to send flowers to my Sister-in-law who is a P.I.A. and I wanted specifics because like I said, she's a P.I.A. Plus I just like talking to Mikey and Sandie. That's the exception, not the rule.

Of all our orders, I would say that 98% go through Merc/Dove.
Audra
Audra

 

[carol]

the F2F folks are immune ..NOT NECESSARILY

f2f folks use credit cards and if they don't check their credit cards against their outgoing orders there is plenty of room for fraud.. an florist can charge a card numerous times over the course of a year.. and getting money back from cc companies can take up to 6 months.. with wire services it usually is dealt with in a month.. and I know serveral large senders that call out all orders because statistically speaking 30% of florists forget to send reports of phone orders filled and that is a large savings to these sending florists.. I think this practice is awful and I have marked these florist so I dont send to them or fill for them..but that is what technology can do for me.. yes it costs money but I find at least 1 error each month on my wire reports

 

[Pam]

no tech, no order

Not every shop can or will have a Dove or Merc system, for a number of reasons. And as for not having the time for the "personal" touch of taking a wired order over the phone ....... as it is a waste of time ....... do all your customers use a Dove or Merc or do they possibly use a phone? Most wired orders over the phone take a heck of a lot less time to complete the order than talking to a customer to see what they want, price, recipient's name and address and so on ...... I've taken wo's over the phone in less than 3 minutes because the details are all set and ready to go. My individual customers take much more time. Can't say I've ever "wasted" any time taking an order for my shop. Don't condemn all wo florists because of a few problems.

 

[BOSS]

And as for not having the time for the "personal" touch of taking a wired order over the phone ....... as it is a waste of time ....... do all your customers use a Dove or Merc or do they possibly use a phone? .

My point exactly, Customers, not florists call on the phone...

And with technology, I would bet, I have about 50% of my customers recipient information already in the system...average call in this case, 1 minute 40 seconds...

As in other cases, different strokes for different folks, I have 8 incoming lines, and need them for customers, when a florist ties up a line and an employee giving me a discounted order, my profit on that discounted orders is reduced.

The whole thought that started this thread, was that "IF" florist begin to not trust the phone, and only allow orders sent by viable electronic (trackable) methods) that it may lead to further consolidation in the industry toward those that have technology (including fax).