OG's revealed! Important download!!

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keith

keith

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Staff member
Jan 22, 2003
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Beaverton
www.beavertonflorists.com
State / Prov
Oregon
I know my first thread did not have a very seducing title. but you may want this file for your records. I originally posted it hoping to generate some discussion and development of a more comprehensive list. But, What the heck, here it is. Download and copy.

View attachment OrderGatherers a more usable list.xls


Cheers,
Keith
 
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Sher said:
I see Academy Florist in NY listed...Sal has a fine shop...he has 2-3 web sites but he has real flowers
So does..Absolutely flowers...
and a few others...what is the criteria for the list?
TIA
Sher
Click to expand...

Your post prompted me to look this list over. I noticed Expressions in Bloom (inbloom) was on there. I've known them to be a good shop.
 
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Yeah that line 39 puzzles me a bit too, especially given our reciprocity list shows us filling about 2 1/2 times the number of orders they've filled for us.

11 out, 27 in.

:dunno:


hmmmm, you been drinking Keith? :icon15
 
Criteria revealed.

OK. so you notice that there are some shops that have a real B&M presence. Here is the quick and dirty rule to my OG list.
1. Are you in my phone book?
2. Do you own domains that are misleading?
3. Are you honest about who and where you are?
4. Do you operate a directory that lists your shop as a default?
5. Do you promise "Free delivery"?
6. Can I send you orders?
7. Is you sending volume justified by the town you are in?

JB made the list because of his directory but I still fill his and Gary's orders because I think they are just misdirected youth.

Look, I'm not requiring you to DNF all these guys, but you should know who you are filling for. The choice is yours.

To quote an old prophet,
"Opinions vary"
Keith
 
I'm glad to know I passed all those criteria.
 
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my criteria is very simple...if you state on your website that "you" deliver in my town, you are an order gatherer.
If you show up as weasley does, purporting to be a "master florist" in my town...you're an order gatherer.
If you are listed in my phone book as my town without an address....just an 800 #....guess what.........
Truth in advertising........most on that list state they deliver in your town. They do not..... they are an order gatherer.
AAbsolutely !! advertised in my local phone books (not Expressions in Bloom) ...Maybe my town is too small or our area just wasn't worth paying the price for the ad?
I keep my own list for those who do the above and tell them point blank why I don't fill for them.
The list of non fillers will soon expand as there are a great many Maine Florists who have expressed deep feelings for the low ball, orders gathered and sent to them over Mother's Day. All have expressed a great interest in "getting a list"........And this will be addressed in a business round table meeting at a show weekend coming soon for enlightenment of our members.
 
Rhonda at work said:
.
Expressions in Bloom used to be in my local phone books.....they are no longer (green dot for you- just 'cause, JB) ...
Click to expand...

Rhonda - I have never advertised in any phone book outside my delivery area.

You must be thinking of someone else.

All have expressed a great interest in "getting a list"........
Click to expand...

Just do try to make sure it is an accurate list because some on that list are very fine florists simply with a good internet presence.

To me - it's flat out deception (hiding or faking addresses) skimming, or being a sending only that make my personal list.

And I've been looking at them so long the fairly short list is in my head.
 
Look, we all may not like the fact that order gatherers exist but fact is, they do. If they are honest about their location, such as inbloom, nationwideflorist and beneva...what gives? If the customer is looking at a website and SEEING where the florist is located and STILL decides to use that OOA florist then that is the local florist's fault for not having a better web presence. The three florists that I just mentioned are nothing more than great marketers...can't hate that. Hell, I can guarantee that I lost a ton of business in the last few years for having a "catalog" only site and not ecommerce. I can't blame anyone for that but myself.

I'm with JB, if you are a scummy, deceptive, skimming dOG then you're on my list.
 
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Heather, I agree with both you and JB, but where does the deception begin and end ?

Most internet users search and go with the first or second selection that looks appealing,
and that's really all she wrote. Many don't bother to look for the actual location because they think that the " florist ' is legit.
I go through this every day.

Rough example :

Joe Blow Florist markets everywhere, and does a great job.
Gets an order for a town that has one florist, but chooses to send the order to a town 9 miles away ! And that's on a good day !
The florist in the destination town is affiliated with everyone and FTF, but still the order goes out of town.
Sender thinks the " local florist " in town is delivering because of the "intended deception, no ?

The bottom line is that the " good marketing strategies " are unregulated and are are causing devastation to legitimate shops, like yourself, and many others that try to maintain a higher standard.

No answers here.......which is why I'm in the middle of a major restructuring, cause I'm tired of the BS.
Don't get me wrong, we're comin out of a strong MDay, and are happy, but I'm gearing more toward the future now than ever before, cause " we ain't seen the worst of it yet !
No regulation............spells grief, no matter how you slice it, and I've got way too much invested to sit back and watch it all come apart.

Seems like, from what I'm hearing lately, many are also turning toward the OG lifestyle, as there are few options available.

Me, I'm just a hard working schmuck that still believes in fairy tales !
 
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keith said:
...I originally posted it hoping to generate some discussion and development of a more comprehensive list...
Click to expand...

I emphasized this line.

I think it is a great list! Wait... It's the only list I've seen offered up in a very easy to use format. Instead of burning Keith at the stake, I think it would be better to post any changes one thinks ought to be made - and why.

This is a great start from which to build a working list for shops that would like one.

Disclaimer: I am not a member of TF, FTD, or 1-800 so take my opinion for what you will :)
 
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fairfield said:
It's the only list I've seen offered up in a very easy to use format. Instead of burning Keith at the stake, I think it would be better to post any changes one thinks ought to be made - and why. :)
Click to expand...

Jason - no one is burning Keith at the stake - I think it's a great idea and good information to have - as MOF I made what I think to be the very first of these many many years ago.

I just think the criteria used for the information is a bit in question.

Keith's criteria is hypercritical, and he has every right to fill not anyone's order he likes in his shop. For the record, Keith also once had a list that had me as a sending only shop - which we have never been nor ever will be, making it totally inaccurate. I know - he faxed it to me. He has since found out that it wasn't true, and we do exchange orders regularly, as I want the best for my customer in his area and he does also in mine.

Mine was as well (hypercritical) and after distributing it I found I had erred in many listings, actually a few listing successful professional florists with good online presences on it (America's Florist was one), so I retired mine and stoppped sharing it (I found I had shared it with someone that was on the list in error). Tho we kept it at hand for a quite long time (I think it still exists somewhere around my shop) - it grew quite dated.

I have a do not fill list also - but it these days is short and primarily in my head, with the simplistic criteria I listed above in this thread.

It's quite alright - I don't even care that my shop is on that list but it is an perfect example that one would be prudent to check the accuracy of the florists listed.

These days the few of them that I have - I just mark them in our system and if an order comes in or is phoned in - right in the sending florist side of the ticket will be a notation **DO NOT FILL FOR** which you can't miss.

By the way - I did PM Keith with a several he had missed that fit his criteria last night. So I even did what I could to help with it.

it's all good but

opinions vary

and on this one
(your welcome JB)
Click to expand...
- thanks (I guess) but exactly what am I welcome for?
 
The following quote is the opening post from keith's original thread:

keith said:
I have to say, we have come a long way baby!

But I do notice something that stands out to me, there is lots of websites mentioned in the posts but not a good list of the shop names to DNF. The real trick in this game is to stop from filling the DOG orders and the only way to do that is to know who the shop names are the they are sending them under. Early in the thread some of you longer members may have gotten the list I created. Guess what, its changed dramaticly, partly from our work here, partly from getting the word out to DNF, and even some due to the economics of the business model. Here is my suggestion. Many of us have DNF lists, most will have the most egregious on them, but no one will have them all. Heck, they are still cropping up! I would like to have a up to date list, I have gone over mine and have been a little less strident in who gets on it, (your welcome JB) and have a few new ones. I would like to get several lists to compile, review, maybe those who submit a list could have a discussion group to make sure that we don't paint marketers with a DOG label, and make a updated list available to the membership. I know Mark has a good base with the FD site list and if anyone else has one please email it to me at [email protected]

I would like to get all the newer members up to speed on this issue and expand the number of shops who say "If your ad (or site) says you deliver to my town, deliver it yourself!"

This is an education opportunity and I think fits in well with some recent threads and posts.

Thanks, I hope this gets some response.
Keith
Click to expand...

First off I'd like to thank you Keith for sharing this list and your good intentions. It's a nice beginning to a helpful tool for all of us fellow florists.

But this list is not only a list of OG's but a list of DNF (do not fill) florists. While I feel that all of these florists may meet some of the criteria that label them an "order gatherer", I do not feel that they all should be labeled or branded DNF. I propose to remove #39 "Expressions in Bloom" (inbloom.com). I believe that this florist's strong internet presence shouldn't be held against it. It has a good reputation of sending and filling. It is not known to skim or deceive and should not be lumped in with the others. I'd be more than happy to fill orders this shop sends my way and I think a lot of the others may not say it, but would agree. Just my opinion.
 
bloomz said:
Jason - no one is burning Keith at the stake
Click to expand...

I know, but given the category (Wire Services) that this thread is in...

I think this is something that could be of great benefit to real florists - a well organized list. The info is probably in the official OG thread here on FC, but it would not be easy to look up a name if you are questioning an order that just spit out of the machine.

I also think that any list of this nature is subject to scrutiny and personal preference and must be continually evaluated for accuracy and integrity.

Another possible title for the list could be Known OG's And Their Aliases. Then, in a comment column, relevant details could be listed. The comment column may read simply, "Real Florist", or it could be more in-depth. That would be a pretty comprehensive list that would lay it all out for easy decision making. I would also have two lists for each WS. One sorted by shop name and the other sorted by shop code.

Question on the side: Does it violate any WS rules to share shop codes with non-members?
 
keith said:
OK. so you notice that there are some shops that have a real B&M presence. Here is the quick and dirty rule to my OG list.
1. Are you in my phone book?
2. Do you own domains that are misleading?
3. Are you honest about who and where you are?
4. Do you operate a directory that lists your shop as a default?
5. Do you promise "Free delivery"?
6. Can I send you orders?
7. Is you sending volume justified by the town you are in?

JB made the list because of his directory but I still fill his and Gary's orders because I think they are just misdirected youth.

Look, I'm not requiring you to DNF all these guys, but you should know who you are filling for. The choice is yours.

To quote an old prophet,
"Opinions vary"
Keith
Click to expand...
I love Bloomz and his contribution here, but before I decide to add or remove from a OG list I check out the reason their on the list. I thought it ludicrous that In Bloom was on the list until I read why here. Do you have a directory with yourself as the default? And where do I view it? You probably don't send me orders anyways, but I would like to check out this directory and come to my own conclusion.

Joan
 
fairfield said:
Another possible title for the list could be Known OG's And Their Aliases.
Click to expand...
An excellent suggestion.

Question on the side: Does it violate any WS rules to share shop codes with non-members?
Click to expand...
LOL. Does it violate any WS rules to misrepresent location, mislead about services rendered, call a fee 'delivery' and then not give it to the delivering florist, or claim 'free delivery' when it isn't true?

If the WSs actually enforced their rules, a list like this really wouldn't be necessary, would it?

I don't see anywhere on JB's site that he deceives consumers. The address in Corvallis is on every page. Now if the company was aggressively marketing in our area (as many are on that list) I'd have a beef. But they aren't, and they are my real florist of choice in Corvallis.

Without going into details, there are other 'real florists' on that list that have been sinking ever lower to gain orders. They're now using local numbers with remote call forwarding and signing up with services that geocode them in places far from their real locations.

'Real Florist' or not, their orders won't get filled by my shop.
 
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I had a look at the list and Flowers by Bill Bush is a shop, and they do not hide who they are on the web site??? Not sure that some of these are actual order gatherers??
 
Biiig Picture

. Hell, I can guarantee that I lost a ton of business in the last few years for having a "catalog" only site and not ecommerce. I can't blame anyone for that but myself.


Maybe, but does TF or FTD offer courses on building you web-presence online. The focus in this industry is on design, AIFD, Designer of the year contest, Phil Rudullo(sp) not marketing. While I believe design is an intragal part of or industry it is not the only one We need to stop looking at our creativty as only a 3-D ability. Marketing is just as, if not more, important. Simply because, if you can't get the people in to see and buy your work then fill in yourself.
Bottom Line:
OG's, WS's are all about marketing & selling
Florists wanna design.
I find it very interesting that when it comes to the design aspect of this forum, everyone is very helpful.
Yet, the business side seems to bring out the hoity-toity side of the posters and comments like oh, well if they're too lazy, stoopid, etc... to figure it out for themselves; they deserve it
 
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