TF Valentine Bouquets/Help Me Do The Math!

[NavyBrat]

OK...I get it...TF doesn't care if florists make money selling their products. They make money selling their giftware and that's all that matters. Can't explain why I have never really paid attention to their profit worksheets for their products, but I am obviously a complete fool for buying any of their products based on their suggested selling prices. Here's an example:

0V100 Teleflora's Embraceable You Bouquet
Flowers & Foliage Estimated Total
Wholesale Cost
2 Roses Hot Pink 1.40
3 Roses Pink 2.10
4 Roses Red 3.20
1 Stem Bupleurum .58
Total Wholesale Cost 7.28
A Retail=Wholesale Cost x 3.5 25.48

Hard Goods & Shipping
Embraceable You Vase 6.99
Shipping & Handling 1.24
Total Whsle. Cost 8.23
B Retail=Wholesale Cost x 2 16.46
Total A & B 41.94
Labor (Retail Bouquet Price
x 20%) 10.59
Grand Total Retail Value 52.52

Retail Bouquet Price 52.95

Flowers & Foliage Wholesale
Cost -7.28
Hard Goods & Shipping
Wholesale Cost -8.23
Labor -10.59
Estimated Profit Per Bouquet 26.85

Is TF in the dark ages with their pricing? Wow! They sure are getting great prices for Valentine's Day roses-pink roses @.70 and red roses @ 1.07. The prices I am paying for pink roses $1.25 and premium red roses $1.75. Our flower mark up is the same as they are using 3.5.

Next issue: Hard Goods markup-TF's markup is x2, my markup is x3 for most hard good items, 2.5 on some hard goods-for this item I priced the vase using 2.5 markup.

Last, but not least: Labor-TF's labor fee is 20%, my labor is $25%.

If someone has reviewed these worksheets, for the love of God, will you please explain to me how TF even came up with their retail price of $52.95? Apparently, at least what I can figure out from this worksheet, you have to know the retail price of the bouquet to even get your $$$ amount for labor? Huh? Maybe I missed something, because I can't for the life of me add any of these figures to come up with their final selling price of $52.95.

Anyway, here's the bottom line-my pricing works out like this:
Retail Flowers & Foliage Total $48.65
Hard Goods & Shipping Total $23.08
My Total Price So Far For This Bouquet $71.73, and that is without my 25% labor, because according to this worksheet, I base the labor fee on the selling price of the bouquet. With a total of $71.73 @ 25% labor the labor fee would be $17.93 for a grand total of $89.66 for this design. RIGHT???

We are selling this item for $60.00, not the suggested $52.95, but this is certainly a losing proposition for me according to my pricing. God forbid I sell any of this item on incoming wires and lose another 27%.

Does anyone have another view of this pricing? Please enlighten me. I'd be much happier to learn that I have the pricing all wrong! Make my day!

 

[CHR]

Dianne, You're right. The cost of the containers with the cost of the flowers don't make you much of a profit. Use them to fill an incoming order and you may be lucky to eek out a few dollars.

V-Day is the worst.

Call Stems and Bunches and ask if they're selling roses at those prices (including freight). Pleased let us know.

Your best bet is to create your own recipe and sell the containers at best value.

You know, those of us advocating shops to create their own specials aren't just saying it 'cuz we're lunatic fringe types.

 

[tantalizingblooms2005]

According to the stems and bunches website, they are NOT selling their roses for that price. I noticed this last week and it really ticked me off! As far as the Embraceable You container which we did purchase, we are just going to make up our own arrangements in them and sell them for our own prices. We do not foresee getting many wire ins on this in our area anyway. I have really had it with Teleflora. Unfortunately, we bought a POS from them, and are stuck. We are really learning our lessons around here.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

Wish I had the magic answer - I rarely sell any coded containers for their SRP anymore, once I had a very similar math epiphany to yours. Now, I only purchase what I can use to make our own specials. The last holiday I coded for was M-day 2006, and only because I split with one case of several specials with two other shops. I bought 12 Kincaide Christmas because I pre-sold 9 or so to annual customers, but after the coding deadline.

This year, I am coding for nothing. Had a lovely conversation with a borderline hostile salesperson about purchasing M-day containers. I briefly explained my decision, to which she ultimately replied "I just hate to see your competitor ((she gave the shop by name)) get all of those coded orders." Nice, huh? I told her that was fine, I was more interested in selling to my customers locally and offering better value with containers that are purchased and sold at better pricing for all of us. I think I have a little star by my shop name now, that only the reallly pushy salespeople can call me. Fine by me, I enjoy the thrust and parry!:duel:

You absolutely can't go by their SRP, even for everyday items, for the very same reasons you listed - 20% labor, 2X markup on hardgoods.

AND -you have to pay VERY close attention to the "all around arrangement" VS "one-sided arrangement" description. EVERYTHING they show is arranged one sided in the pics, if you count flowers and compare. It's all visible to the camera, even if it's a centerpiece style.

fun fun stuff,

tracy

 

[Eric S]

Dianne, You're right. The cost of the containers with the cost of the flowers don't make you much of a profit. Use them to fill an incoming order and you may be lucky to eek out a few dollars.

This is the most important thing to realize. A codified product that you buy just to fill orders is the worst business decision you can make for your business. If you have no problem selling them yourself great but I will bet that many of you use your codified products for filling orders.

Big Ted you listening!!!!!

 

[TOTO]

They all want to be COMPETITIVE!

However, the really sad part of that marketing strategy is in the fact that, it's the FLORIST who has to make up the difference in THEIR DOLLARS.

In other words, their COMPETITIVE MARKET STRENGTH is coming out of DA FLORISTS' DIME.

We've never used any WS SRPs nor based our final retail pricing on their COGs. In every case, we always found everything about their formulas to be TOO LOW and most probably, by THEIR DESIGN.

You must run your own numbers in your own local market and come to your own conclusions.

And, what's with LABOR STILL AT 20%? I've seen them use that figure used for over the past 25 years.

Wanna try 25% and live in the REAL WORLD?

Bottom line is YOUR BOTTOM LINE, and if you can't glean a profit from a Holiday Branded Product, DON'T BUY IT!

And that's on your 100% CUSTOMER SALES! Forget about filling them at a 30% discount plus YOUR FREE DELIVERY.

As I've sated before, the OLD WS BUSINESS MODEL is DEAD and while they either refuse to accept that, or simply can't come up with a new plan, or just want to live in DENIAL, we REAL FLORISTS can't afford to subsidize their failures.

For us, and for the past five years, we have refused to handle any of their over rated and overpriced EVERYDAY BRANDED or HOLIDAY BRANDED containers. Instead, we put the FULL VALUE of our customer's dollars into the FLOWERS which go into our utility glass and knock the recipient's socks off.

Sure, there are still a few older folks out there who are into collectibles but, they are FEW and FAR IN BETWEEN now.

So went the way of DISNEY, HUMMEL, SIVORSKI, FRANKLIN, and TY, and a few more I can't remember now.

 

[Lady Biker Florist]

And that's why I buy those (can't live with 'em can't live without 'em) wire service holiday containers for $1-$2 including shipping AFTER the fact. I by them for the next year. I think there are a few who seek out those "lovely" wire service holiday containers for the current year from TV guide ads, etc. but in the long run we do way better buying after market for the next year. $7.99 PLUS shipping vs. $1.75 INCLUDING shipping. A no brainer for us.

 

[bluebonnet]

Patty I do the same thing! Them $1 containers are great for last minute walk ins that just grab and pay! LOVE IT! Especially the plain ones for all year long!

$7.99? please...... that's why you don't make money!

Cyndi

 

[flowerknife+us]

This holiday is the worst I have ever seen TF pricing. It usually is not this poor. I could not believe the pricing on their rose this year. We usually do ok with their VD pricing because in the past years they have had their suggested retail prices for roses higher than what we usually have to raise our prices to. TF stooped to a whole new low on pricing these arrangements out. They all went live on the web today so I need to make some quick adjustments tomorrow. Thank God they have self web editing!

Knife's Wife

 

[BOSS]

This holiday is the worst I have ever seen TF pricing. It usually is not this poor.

This seems to be a recurring theme...even becoming more frequent with folks mentioning it. Or is it just my imagination?

I would guess the reason is the effort to try and compete for consumer sales with the other online sellers and fill their pipeline with order flow.

Remember, most florists are addicts...wire-IN addicts that is.:soapbox:

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

We still buy the specials - because they sell! BUT, we also charge accordingly for them! V-day is never a big wire in holiday - mostly local. (unless you're filling for 800...) So, 90% of our coded items go at our prices.

Diane is correct - you cannot make $ using the SRP's of the w/s. Instead of getting better, they have gotten worse.

- H.

 

[flowerknife+us]

We also reprice accordingly for profit. It use to be that our prices seemed to run dead on with TF. (Being a big shop and able to buy at good prices has always helped) The last 3 TG, Christmas and now VD is out of Whack. I just updated the website with our pricing, and thank God that VD is not a big wire in day.

Knife's Wife

 

[clay]

Holiday SRP

Yep, very rarely is my SRP the same as TFFTD on the floral holiday codified arrangements. Even worst for me was the EVERYDAY items from Bloomlink, I got tired of argueing with them and they got tired of me calling and asking for more money....so one of the 3 out the door. Now got to decide between the two I am left with, who is the less of two evels...or is it wevels.