What do we want from a WS?
- Thread starter Hollyhocks
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Hi Hollyhocks -
I moved your post to a new thread since the other one was on an entirely different topic.
This issue has been discussed over and over again for nearly 7 years so you might want to spend some time reading through previous posts in the Wire Service forum. Loads of info there.
I moved your post to a new thread since the other one was on an entirely different topic.
This issue has been discussed over and over again for nearly 7 years so you might want to spend some time reading through previous posts in the Wire Service forum. Loads of info there.
TOTO
New Member
The simplest answer is.............................
The simplest answer to "WHAT DOES A FLORIST WANT FROM A WIRE SERVICE?" is this Hollyhocks.
REAL FLORISTS want a Wire Service to be their BUSINESS PARTNER and not THEIR BUSINESSES' COMPETITOR!
Even if one WS doesn't DROP SHIP anything and everything for THEIR CUSTOMERS NOW (used to be ours), they PIMP for their cloaked associates who do. So, there's really no difference in the end.
Just an example of three card Monte or a shell game.
Back in the day (pre 1984) and when we had seven wire services to include FTD, Teleflora, Florafax, AFS, FCN, Carik, and Redbook, they had no 800 SKIMMERS or DOT.CON middlemen in their ranks.
All the WIRE orders to and through were sent and received by ONLY REAL FLORISTS. That economic scale was balanced as you did for me, and then, I did for you.
The big profits made on the SENDING SIDE went to subsidize the losses incurred on the FILLING SIDE. A good scenario was when the volume of outgoing orders was the same as the incoming canceled each other out. The best case scenario was when your outgoing orders exceeded your incoming orders as that's where the real profits are made.
When the MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS entered into the equation, that's when the scale tipped and became OUT OF BALANCE for 90% of the florists.
Like a scud missile, the SKIMMERS began to INTERCEPT our customer's 100% outgoing wire orders from WEE REAL FLORISTS, skim off all the gravy, and then, subcontract the discounted junk back to the filler florists doing all the work.
Now, I just know someone is going to suggest; If the SKIMMERS are able to do that, then those customers weren't ours to begin with.
The real answer is in the fact that, if the SKIMMERS didn't come into flower, the new or infrequent flower buyers would think of A REAL FLORIST FIRST and for us, it would've been OUR BUSINESS as USUAL.
Anyway, the RATS out of the bag and there's no going back for anyone, neither us, nor the Wire Services who enabled them in the first place.
The simplest of all business arrangements is FLORIST 2 FLORIST while using your company's Major Credit Card.
That eliminates the MIDDLEMAN (in this case, the Wire Service and their SKIMMERS), saves the sender all those annual dues and fees which are so much higher than any rebates they might glean, and allows the filler florist a full 80% net to them rather than 70% on the surface, but more like 55% when all of the WS Smoke and Mirror Wampum ancillary charges clear.
Sadly, the formula is SO SIMPLE that, too many florists just can't handle it, and so, they remain STUCK ON STUPID!
Still can't figure out why that is other than, they've been doing it that way for so long now, they have no intention of changing.
This is an example of the rocket science formula:
$100 outgoing nets the SKIMMER a $20 commission, a $6 rebate, and a WS charge of $12.99 for a total gross profit of $38.99.
$100 incoming nets the FILLER $70 (-20%-7%-3%). After deducting their cost of delivery (-$10), they get to work with $60. If their annual dues and fees total $3,000 per year and they receive 500 incoming orders, the per incoming order additional acquisition cost is another $6.
And that's how the filler florist only nets $54 in the end, or 54% from the dollar when they don't run their numbers while dooing all dat doo. Which is also why, the customer may pitch a b'tch when they see the final result of spending $112.99 plus tax only to see a product worth $54, or half of what they paid.
It's even worse when the filling florist's annual dues and fees are higher than $3,000 and the volume of incoming orders are less than 500 per year. Unless they have lots of outgoing orders, they're operating at a severe loss.
Oh well, such is the case, and sadly, I've come to the conclusion that, this SHELL GAME will never change. After all, the majority of florists just want to arrange flowers, and that's the way it BEE! (PROFIT or NOT) It's just for FUN!
:wallhead:
The simplest answer to "WHAT DOES A FLORIST WANT FROM A WIRE SERVICE?" is this Hollyhocks.
REAL FLORISTS want a Wire Service to be their BUSINESS PARTNER and not THEIR BUSINESSES' COMPETITOR!
Even if one WS doesn't DROP SHIP anything and everything for THEIR CUSTOMERS NOW (used to be ours), they PIMP for their cloaked associates who do. So, there's really no difference in the end.
Just an example of three card Monte or a shell game.
Back in the day (pre 1984) and when we had seven wire services to include FTD, Teleflora, Florafax, AFS, FCN, Carik, and Redbook, they had no 800 SKIMMERS or DOT.CON middlemen in their ranks.
All the WIRE orders to and through were sent and received by ONLY REAL FLORISTS. That economic scale was balanced as you did for me, and then, I did for you.
The big profits made on the SENDING SIDE went to subsidize the losses incurred on the FILLING SIDE. A good scenario was when the volume of outgoing orders was the same as the incoming canceled each other out. The best case scenario was when your outgoing orders exceeded your incoming orders as that's where the real profits are made.
When the MIDDLEMAN SKIMMERS entered into the equation, that's when the scale tipped and became OUT OF BALANCE for 90% of the florists.
Like a scud missile, the SKIMMERS began to INTERCEPT our customer's 100% outgoing wire orders from WEE REAL FLORISTS, skim off all the gravy, and then, subcontract the discounted junk back to the filler florists doing all the work.
Now, I just know someone is going to suggest; If the SKIMMERS are able to do that, then those customers weren't ours to begin with.
The real answer is in the fact that, if the SKIMMERS didn't come into flower, the new or infrequent flower buyers would think of A REAL FLORIST FIRST and for us, it would've been OUR BUSINESS as USUAL.
Anyway, the RATS out of the bag and there's no going back for anyone, neither us, nor the Wire Services who enabled them in the first place.
The simplest of all business arrangements is FLORIST 2 FLORIST while using your company's Major Credit Card.
That eliminates the MIDDLEMAN (in this case, the Wire Service and their SKIMMERS), saves the sender all those annual dues and fees which are so much higher than any rebates they might glean, and allows the filler florist a full 80% net to them rather than 70% on the surface, but more like 55% when all of the WS Smoke and Mirror Wampum ancillary charges clear.
Sadly, the formula is SO SIMPLE that, too many florists just can't handle it, and so, they remain STUCK ON STUPID!
Still can't figure out why that is other than, they've been doing it that way for so long now, they have no intention of changing.
This is an example of the rocket science formula:
$100 outgoing nets the SKIMMER a $20 commission, a $6 rebate, and a WS charge of $12.99 for a total gross profit of $38.99.
$100 incoming nets the FILLER $70 (-20%-7%-3%). After deducting their cost of delivery (-$10), they get to work with $60. If their annual dues and fees total $3,000 per year and they receive 500 incoming orders, the per incoming order additional acquisition cost is another $6.
And that's how the filler florist only nets $54 in the end, or 54% from the dollar when they don't run their numbers while dooing all dat doo. Which is also why, the customer may pitch a b'tch when they see the final result of spending $112.99 plus tax only to see a product worth $54, or half of what they paid.
It's even worse when the filling florist's annual dues and fees are higher than $3,000 and the volume of incoming orders are less than 500 per year. Unless they have lots of outgoing orders, they're operating at a severe loss.
Oh well, such is the case, and sadly, I've come to the conclusion that, this SHELL GAME will never change. After all, the majority of florists just want to arrange flowers, and that's the way it BEE! (PROFIT or NOT) It's just for FUN!
:wallhead:
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Personally I'd prefer no wire service and that all consumers would contact local delivering florists directly.
Yes, it's coming, I just wish it would hurry up. That, and only that will be the end of both order gatherers and wire services.<period
Yes, it's coming, I just wish it would hurry up. That, and only that will be the end of both order gatherers and wire services.<period
OMG!!! That's what I'm sayin' TOTO!!!! What the heck is going on??? Where is all of this FEAR coming from? Turning this on it's head would be so easy....Change is so psychologically paralyzing for some people. But for those who are not afraid of CHANGING and GROWING and not being comfortable in the 'status quo' (like the WS companies...HELLO???!!!) great things can happen. What would happen if we all, tomorrow, refused every WS order? Should we give it a try? By the way, I am officially WS free.
conchandler
Well-Known Member
We are currently looking at how to ween ourselves from the WS. Dove Plus, website hosting and CC clearinghouse are things that TF does well, but at a cost that we feel is too high for us (except for the CC). A perfect wire service (and this is strictly from my perspective, because I don't know what it costs for a WS to run) would have a pro-rated membership fee based on the number of orders a shop receives, have no OG members, and not compete with its members for orders.
TOTO
New Member
YUP! Now you're working for YOU!
There ya go Hollyhocks. You figured it all out for yourself and now, YOU'RE WORKING FOR YOU!
I forgot to add in the best feature of an F 2 F order.
The fact that, their cash winds up in your bank account in 48 hours with a credit card rather than 48 days after the debits and credits kick in on the Wire Service Statement.
Your "WHAT IF" has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.
In fact, if everyone REFUSED every WS HQ ORDER or the ones CLOAKED by the WS HQ, all the DOT.CONS, MIDDLEMEN, and SKIMMERS, would dry up and die.
Sadly, there's always the ONE or THREE shops that refuse to see THE FLORISTS for THE FLEAS, and insist on filling anything for anyone at any price for anytime, even when they don't have anything close to what the consumer picked from the website. So, they play the game and depend upon the SENDER not seeing WHAT WAS SENT.
When a complaint is made and they get caught, the SKIMMER does a charge back. What's funny about that is in the fact, the SKIMMER may or may not give that customer a refund, even though the filler suffers the 100% loss. Sometimes it winds up to be a partial refund or a future credit. The player florist considers it to be a COST OF DOO-ING business. They think they're way ahead of the game anyway, since they got away with curtailing the last 300 SKIMMER orders they filled, or sent out nothing like was depicted in the picture, so it's no big deal.
The good part is that, many customers have gotten wise to the scam and now, with the Internet, they can seek out and find a REAL FLORIST at the point of demarcation and get what they ordered for the amount of money they paid.
The bad part is that, many other SKIMMER CUSTOMERS, having gotten burned, abandon sending flowers as a gift, and turn to something else made by machines stamping out the same thing a zillion times over.
Now, that's COOKIE CUTTER! But as far as they're concerned, the size of the COOKIE is the same every time, so they're comfortable in making that choice rather than taking the odds and ROLLING THE DICE in a CRAPS SHOOT again.
There ya go Hollyhocks. You figured it all out for yourself and now, YOU'RE WORKING FOR YOU!
I forgot to add in the best feature of an F 2 F order.
The fact that, their cash winds up in your bank account in 48 hours with a credit card rather than 48 days after the debits and credits kick in on the Wire Service Statement.
Your "WHAT IF" has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.
In fact, if everyone REFUSED every WS HQ ORDER or the ones CLOAKED by the WS HQ, all the DOT.CONS, MIDDLEMEN, and SKIMMERS, would dry up and die.
Sadly, there's always the ONE or THREE shops that refuse to see THE FLORISTS for THE FLEAS, and insist on filling anything for anyone at any price for anytime, even when they don't have anything close to what the consumer picked from the website. So, they play the game and depend upon the SENDER not seeing WHAT WAS SENT.
When a complaint is made and they get caught, the SKIMMER does a charge back. What's funny about that is in the fact, the SKIMMER may or may not give that customer a refund, even though the filler suffers the 100% loss. Sometimes it winds up to be a partial refund or a future credit. The player florist considers it to be a COST OF DOO-ING business. They think they're way ahead of the game anyway, since they got away with curtailing the last 300 SKIMMER orders they filled, or sent out nothing like was depicted in the picture, so it's no big deal.
The good part is that, many customers have gotten wise to the scam and now, with the Internet, they can seek out and find a REAL FLORIST at the point of demarcation and get what they ordered for the amount of money they paid.
The bad part is that, many other SKIMMER CUSTOMERS, having gotten burned, abandon sending flowers as a gift, and turn to something else made by machines stamping out the same thing a zillion times over.
Now, that's COOKIE CUTTER! But as far as they're concerned, the size of the COOKIE is the same every time, so they're comfortable in making that choice rather than taking the odds and ROLLING THE DICE in a CRAPS SHOOT again.
One major flaw with wire services is that they have always been geared to the SENDING florist and not to the FILLING florist. This is the first thing the perfect wire service needs to do.....send more dollars per order to the filling florist by reducing the amount of dollars kept by the sending florist and the clearinghouse.
The second thing a perfect wire service would need to do is guarantee that only professional retail florists could be members.......and that you could not be sending only......In order to send, you must be equipped to fill.
The third thing a perfect wire service would need to be is a low fee credit card processing system and a fully adaptable POS to work with any other wire service, software, operating system, or floral accounting program on the market today.
The next thing would be a everyday selection of useable, multi-seasonal, non-gimmicky, containers and floral accesories available at a low-cost for it's members.
Lastly, the wire service needs to be a non-profit association - with the funds used for advertising FOR IT's Members.
The second thing a perfect wire service would need to do is guarantee that only professional retail florists could be members.......and that you could not be sending only......In order to send, you must be equipped to fill.
The third thing a perfect wire service would need to be is a low fee credit card processing system and a fully adaptable POS to work with any other wire service, software, operating system, or floral accounting program on the market today.
The next thing would be a everyday selection of useable, multi-seasonal, non-gimmicky, containers and floral accesories available at a low-cost for it's members.
Lastly, the wire service needs to be a non-profit association - with the funds used for advertising FOR IT's Members.
Excellent thoughts on the perfect wire service. Since we all know that will never happen, how about the WS just go away completely? Some things just become obsolete, like the typewriter.
Chezbloom
Well-Known Member
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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oh, I don't know...STILL have my trusty ol' Olivetti...it STILL does the job that it was intended for.....VERY unlike the wire services!!
Olivetti ONE, wire services nothing!!
Well, I'll take a stab at it.
a) Honesty
b) Low monthly membership fee ($50 +/-)
c) Decent coverage
d) No Silly containers
e) Lower outbound commission (10%?), and much lower (2%?) w/s commission
f) No transmission fees (isn't that why we pay a monthly fee?)
g) No printed Directories (hello, 21st century)
h) non-gouging shipping fees (if you want to rape us on shipping, become a shipping company)
i) Honesty
That's a start...
a) Honesty
b) Low monthly membership fee ($50 +/-)
c) Decent coverage
d) No Silly containers
e) Lower outbound commission (10%?), and much lower (2%?) w/s commission
f) No transmission fees (isn't that why we pay a monthly fee?)
g) No printed Directories (hello, 21st century)
h) non-gouging shipping fees (if you want to rape us on shipping, become a shipping company)
i) Honesty
That's a start...
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
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The perfect wire service is a service that makes money for it's dues paying florist. PERIOD.
The way you have to look at the money you spend with a wire service is ....how much REAL money do I make from this business relationship.
For most florists if they spent the money they spend with a wire service and put that same amount of money into buying pay per clicks on Google or paying for SEO optimization, they most likey would be financially better off.
The wire services have backed themselves into a corner. They realized that their business model was doomed years ago. They adopted a plan to ingrain themselves deeply into a florists wallet by creating a string of services that would first, get them money and second lock florists into their wire service. They also chose to use the idea of getting as many orders as possible to give to florists as the bait to get and keep the largest amount of florists in their system.
Their plan was at first successful, but has now is ruining the entire industry because the people they chose to gather these large amounts of orders to send to the florists have ruined the very idea of buying flowers.
My vision of the future retail flower industry is an industry that has a whole lot fewer flower shops than today and one major wire service going away. The pain will be huge and a whole lot of the present players in this industry will be hurt.
The one thing florists have to wake up to....is that they have to support their own. On the filling side, when you recieve an order from another florist it must be filled to the highest level of quality and style and all orders from any ordergatherer must be refused. Fillers need to realize that their fellow sending florist is not the enemy but rather a very important part of the image the public has of all florists. On the sending side, florists have to do a better job of making sure the consumers requests are within financial reason for the filling florist.
The way you have to look at the money you spend with a wire service is ....how much REAL money do I make from this business relationship.
For most florists if they spent the money they spend with a wire service and put that same amount of money into buying pay per clicks on Google or paying for SEO optimization, they most likey would be financially better off.
The wire services have backed themselves into a corner. They realized that their business model was doomed years ago. They adopted a plan to ingrain themselves deeply into a florists wallet by creating a string of services that would first, get them money and second lock florists into their wire service. They also chose to use the idea of getting as many orders as possible to give to florists as the bait to get and keep the largest amount of florists in their system.
Their plan was at first successful, but has now is ruining the entire industry because the people they chose to gather these large amounts of orders to send to the florists have ruined the very idea of buying flowers.
My vision of the future retail flower industry is an industry that has a whole lot fewer flower shops than today and one major wire service going away. The pain will be huge and a whole lot of the present players in this industry will be hurt.
The one thing florists have to wake up to....is that they have to support their own. On the filling side, when you recieve an order from another florist it must be filled to the highest level of quality and style and all orders from any ordergatherer must be refused. Fillers need to realize that their fellow sending florist is not the enemy but rather a very important part of the image the public has of all florists. On the sending side, florists have to do a better job of making sure the consumers requests are within financial reason for the filling florist.
Chezbloom
Well-Known Member
I forsee more direct orders from customers and less need to send and receive orders between shops. I was gonna write that Wire Services are doomed to become a bloated gassy corpse floating on a stagnant pond of deception, but I thought that a bit too dramatic.
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