When a shop had a "look", and does not do "traditional/old fashioned"

[HeatherTuckey]

This post from Carol was on Shannon's thread about depth (I loved that thread BTW)

Another thought on this:

Many years ago, I did family flowers for a funeral in the northeast corner of Missouri.....talk about 50 years behind the times in their small town. They were so redneck.

Anyway, the flower shop let me come in and do the flowers. They watched me like a hawk, not believing some of the design work I was turning out. Meanwhile, they went on filling other funeral orders with their really old fashioned looks.....they were just horrible.

When I went to the visitation, no one there knew I had done the flowers so it was interesting to to hear what each one had to say when they came in. Keep in mind that there were contest type designs along side these really bad creations. Only carnations and footballs mums were in in every single one.

That day, I learned on of my greatest lessons in business ever. Not one of the hometowners could relate to good design and unique flowers. But, they couldn't stop talking about how beautiful the poor quality ones were. My ego was crushed....but, it made me so aware that you have to design for the type customer you have and one size does not fit all. Now, I really listen to my customer to see what level of design I can use.

Carol Bice

Carol,

I love this story!! This is way off topic, but I have to comment, so I started a new thread.

I really admire owners that have a "look" to all of their designs that leave their shop. They are true artists and have a passion for flowers and floral design. Their shops reputation... in terms of design and style is their highest priority.

I also think it is an enormous challenge to be able to do this and remain a thriving and profitable flower shop. Depending on the market I think it can be done, but not in most markets.

Why do shops limit their customer base? I feel that's what many of you are doing. If a customer walks into a shop and LOVES carnations, loves a traditional look, do those of you not accept the order OR change your customer's mind? I am not saying that is what Carol is doing. It appears that from that day on she has tried to understand what the customer and/or recipient truly wants, even if it is the total opposite arrangement that she would want to put her shop's name on. I know I feel that way. It is our job to make flowers that appeal to both the customer and recipient. If they want me to spray a rose, blue I will. I think it's hideous, but they love it. If they choose flowers that I think will look horrible together, I will tactfully suggest an alternative, but if they say no, we will make their hideous combo... as best we can.

When someone asks me my favorite flower... I never know what to say b/c I have so many; orchids, lilies, peonies, amaryllis, gerber, tulips, freesia, iris... the list goes on and on. When I want to bring flower home (not for a party, just for color or fun) - I usually grab the most fun color carns in my novelty box, or mix them up and put them with some cool foliages and maybe a complimentary filler. I am constantly wowed by the variety and new variations. They last forever look fabulous and if I use a cool ceramic vase, I can forget to change that water for days!

Why do florist hate carnations? What do you suggest for that customer that says... "I would like a colorful, showy funeral basket for my great aunt, who was 90 and very a very traditional lady, but my budget is $50. What would you suggest?"

 

[master J]

This post from Carol was on Shannon's thread about depth (I loved that thread BTW)



Carol,

I love this story!! This is way off topic, but I have to comment, so I started a new thread.

I really admire owners that have a "look" to all of their designs that leave their shop. They are true artists and have a passion for flowers and floral design. Their shops reputation... in terms of design and style is their highest priority.

I also think it is an enormous challenge to be able to do this and remain a thriving and profitable flower shop. Depending on the market I think it can be done, but not in most markets.

Why do shops limit their customer base? I feel that's what many of you are doing. If a customer walks into a shop and LOVES carnations, loves a traditional look, do those of you not accept the order OR change your customer's mind? I am not saying that is what Carol is doing. It appears that from that day on she has tried to understand what the customer and/or recipient truly wants, even if it is the total opposite arrangement that she would want to put her shop's name on. I know I feel that way. It is our job to make flowers that appeal to both the customer and recipient. If they want me to spray a rose, blue I will. I think it's hideous, but they love it. If they choose flowers that I think will look horrible together, I will tactfully suggest an alternative, but if they say no, we will make their hideous combo... as best we can.

When someone asks me my favorite flower... I never know what to say b/c I have so many; orchids, lilies, peonies, amaryllis, gerber, tulips, freesia, iris... the list goes on and on. When I want to bring flower home (not for a party, just for color or fun) - I usually grab the most fun color carns in my novelty box, or mix them up and put them with some cool foliages and maybe a complimentary filler. I am constantly wowed by the variety and new variations. They last forever look fabulous and if I use a cool ceramic vase, I can forget to change that water for days!

Why do florist hate carnations? What do you suggest for that customer that says... "I would like a colorful, showy funeral basket for my great aunt, who was 90 and very a very traditional lady, but my budget is $50. What would you suggest?"

I find that it is more the customers who hate carnations, not the florists...I get a lot of calls that say, no carnations please!

I believe customers look at carnations as a cheap flower!(even though their not so cheap anymore, I get roses for less than carns sometimes)

So...maybe that is why some florists have become carnation snobs

 

[alisonm1215]

Great post.
My shop is in a very mixed area. We are a bedroom community close to Austin and have very hippy chic customers as well as good ol' German-Texans. Some days my brain just melts with the dichotomy of requests and questions that i receive. I have been where Carol has been. I did a funurel for a customer and friend that wanted a very unique look. When I went to the service, I heard many mixed reveiws and felt both hurt and admired. It was pretty unsettleing. (taking comments personally--is another thread)
Your point is a valid one. I think we should give the customer what they want and also educate them as well. It is a hard balance to strike, but I try.
Personally, I love carnations, but I don't get enough requests for them. I rarely have them in my cooler unless they were ordered for a specific project. If a customer wants a showy basket for fifty, I always have lots of alstro, spiders, poms and I'll pop in a lilly as a focal flower.

 

[Palms]

I stock carnations and spray cars and i think all flowers have their place in life. I think carnations lend themselves to certain designs anyway, i love the cerise pinked ones and the green ones. I am not a carnation snob.

To me, business is business and it is up to me to make sure that if the design is put together well then it should not effect/affect? my shop image at all.

I have to say that we do market towards the higher end market but we still have something for everyones budget. I would rather have less £50 bouquets than more £10 bouquets if this makes sense.

 

[Gracie]

Unfortunately, $50 is not going to get a really showy basket in our shop. That's if I understand the word "showy" in the same way -- something big with lots of colour. We do carefully explain this to our customers.

We also carefully question them for their style, flower and colour preferance. If the budget is low, whether modern or traditional is asked for, we will query whether carnations are acceptable -- in a positive way (eg. "We have some great carnations in fabulous colours right now..." and pause to let them say yes or no).

I've found that there are 2 main groups who don't like carnations: a certain type of customer who sees them as supermarket flowers, and florists who have been in the business for a long time. I think that the florist group is simply tired of the flower.

Because of this carnation prejudice, we never put carns in a bouquet or a non-specific arrangement unless asked.

But I personally also love the lowly, versatile carnation. The colour range is delicious. For cooler arrangements, I often use them instead of foliage at the neck of the vase, or tightly bundle 5-6 together to make something that equals a hydrangea in impact. And then I sell them to customers who say, "I don't like carnations, but I like that."

 

[Carol Bice]

I am loving this thread.

My take on why people hate carnations.

For the most part, the really great designers in the world find ways to use carnations that are incredible and don't hate them. But, many mediocre florists think they know it all and started telling their customers that they are too good to use carnations and related it to funerals and grocery stores. I think we florist did it to ourselves.

When I do floral demonstrations for groups, I always do some things with carnations and ask how many in the group hate carnations. Many hands go up and then I ask them to examine my work to see if they still hate carnations. The tone completely changes when they see them used in a beautiful way.

Sure, I love the high end unique flowers a lot, but, I love to mix carnations with them because it brings out textures and colors that enhance the expensive flowers. I call them dianthus instead of carnations so the carnations snobs won't notice.

I have asked many people why they hate carnations and nearly all of them say that their florist told them they didn't use them because they are so ordinary....and they all believe that florist. We really did a great job educating our customers to avoid buying them.

Carol Bice

 

[vghstaffer]

A carnation isn't what is used to be which was kinda "boring" . Now with the new colors and varieties I am amazed at how many customers comment on what pretty colors the carnations are.
I use them, I sell them and usually carry the brightest, most different colors that are out there...they can add quite a bang to a cut flower bouquet for a reasonable cost.

 

[BOSS]

I like Carnations....

We sell a couple boxes of Florigene's a week....and red mostly, with some green thrown in.

Like Pomp's..they have been around forever... but we still stock them right in there with Gerbera, Calla's, Orchids and everything else.

I think the stigma associated with carns is fading...at least in the consumers eyes.

 

[MFT]

New Carns...

Have you all seen the Funza carns? they are great new varieties! I bought a 10 bunch box months ago for Autumn and they were beautiful. Yellows, orange, pinks, beige, bicolors. In reference to Carol's thought, when I do seminars, I always have a vase of Carns on the design table. I hold them up and say " who here is soooo tired of these?" The crowd almost always groans and snickers....Then I say, "I used to feel that way, but look at the colors, long vase life and watch what you can make with them"... then I make a textured handtied bouquet with carns, greens and a few other mixed flowers...I barely get half way thru and I can hear them whispering "gorgeous, lovely, I want that one". It's all in the combination and how you coordinate and use the flower strategically.
We have a local Snob-Shop that has an ad that says " where Carnation is a four letter word". Clearly limiting their clientele and revealing their tight & small design minds...long live the Carnation!
That's all folks! Great thread....

 

[Dazeal]

I'll be the snob shop and reply to this.

I don't carry carns, BB, daisies or anything else you find in abundance at a local grocery store. You think I am limiting my customer base, but maybe you don't understand. Before I explain, maybe it's me who doesn't get it, but we can all agree that our shop and the area it is in is different.

Ok... It's not that I hate carns, bb and daisies.. but I am a business man. Those flowers have branded themselves, thanks to FTD and their look, as commodity flowers. Our mantra has always been, do the opposite of the grocery stores. When grocery stores quit using cars and bb, guess what I'll be ordering? To me it's about evolving, not being a snob. There are some REALLY cool carns out there, but I refuse to carry them because of their reputation for being an un-unique flower, which becomes a commodity, which leads to an emotional gift, without emotion, which leads to price wars with the grocery store, which for me = lose. The American Psyche wants a floral gift to be special and when you talk about flowers that have been over done (cookie cutter flowers) they reject that idea. This is why people cringe at carns, bb and daisies, not just because they are a snob...they want something unique... and yes carns can be cool, but to them, it's still a carn and they aren't ready to move on. I get 10 customers who ask not to use carns vs 1 who asks for them. I am not limiting my business but building loyalty.

Ok... so you night think, but why not cater to the masses with everything? This is simple.. it COULD tarnish my creditability as a unique shop. Do people in your town see you as a unique shop? If not, then it might be hard to understand my post. I know that I could still have uniqie chic designs with some really fun carns, and heck, I might try it soon, but florists need to be careful. You think you are catering to the masses, but if your designs are not unique enough, you might lose the customer who drops $100 per design a month. A niche market, for me, is more sustainable and I don't have to worry about that lower end spending customers whom I have to compete with grocery store prices. You might think, this douche bag is such a snob... but in reality, I'm a hillbilly sitting in my tighty whietys who met his wife at a family reunion, but who knows his market.

And you might think you are unique, but are you really? You think you do art, but do you really? (I'm not saying we do, just saying it in general). Examine your shop in truth. Right now I examine my own shop and look at the floral choices and they are limited and I suck. Sometimes I look at a design about to go out and think WTF is that and how is that special or unique? I'm not saying I am perfect, but I am saying that if we think we are done evolving we are foolish and slowly dieing. I kind of stole that saying from Tommy Boy, "If you aren't growing, you are dieing". For the unique situation that florists are in, versus other industries... if we aren't evolving, we are dieing.

Sometimes I think florists use carns because that's just what you do. I have had LOTS of customers come in and say do you have carns, we tell them no, show them lissys, and they say cool, never seen this before and they open like a garden rose, cool.

There are so many ways that we need to evolve in our industry and I'm not a master, I just know what works for us. Your area and market is a lot different, so I don't have all the answers.

You really want to evolve as a florist? How many times does someone new come into your shop and either think or say... this is a florist? Cool. - People are sick of traditional florists, we must evolve in every single aspect of our business.... from website SEO to color of your walls.

 

[Joe Mioux]

I liked carnations when I was a kid in the 1960's and early 1970's because they smelled great and they were - are - fun to touch. And when I broke one, I didn't get into too much trouble, unlike the time I bonked my sister over the head with a ceramic compote.

Carnations lost a lot of their appeal after the "industry" kept calling them funeral flowers. Part of that reason was the clove scent or peppermint scent they had.

Science took care of the smell, but the funeral flower moniker stuck.

I have always liked using them. They are a great value and when necessary designers can manipulate the stems and or heads to make something unique. Carnations can be cut up and made into other floral elements.

and lastly, they last a long time.

 

[MFT]

Nice

I could not have said it better. :itspurple Evolution is the only way to survive.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

You might think, this douche bag is such a snob... but in reality, I'm a hillbilly sitting in my tighty whiteys who met his wife at a family reunion, but who knows his market.

Please tell me you ARE wearing pants.

 

[Palms]

Daz do you really think a niche market is more sustainable? Pls explain in 1000 words or less:SUI: if you feel like that is..

 

[BOSS]

Dazelweed....

Are you telling me you don't use Florigene's?

Dude...Bro... you gotta try 'em at least...

But then again, I'm a purple freak too...

 

[RWK]

Being a floral designer/employee for all of my career, and having had the good fortune to work for low-end shops, mid-level shops, high-end shops, and one or two that defy description......I want to put in an opinion.

First of all - regarding carnations - Personally, I like carnations....when they are used in unique and exciting ways. Just a normal basket, with a normal, staid, century old style of design with carnations, daisies, etc just does not excite me.

As far as customer perceptions..........I find that for the most part - the "higher-end and higher-end wannabe" customers are the ones that always holler "No Carnations"

Regarding an overall "look" - I don't feel or think that the types or varieties of flowers contribute a whole lot to a particular "look" as much as overall ambiance, interior decor, lighting, overall product mix and STYLES of designs, along with logo and branding with things like signs, business cards, advertising, etc all contribute far more to an overall look or theme that your selection of flowers.

A good example - Let's say for the sake of illustration that you are a modern, clean, high-end, boutique shop. Your fixtures are all wild, colorful and futuristic shapes. You want an interesting display in your window.....and You were challenged to do the display using silk carnation heads. You might take clear lucite stands and pedestals, trays, and the like along with colored cube and square vases to build a cubist inspired structure and then offset that with oversize orbs made with the carnations.

A vibrant, modern, crazy, cool display using ........ "GASP"....... silk funeral carnations. Another example - Talmage McLaurin AIFD at the DC symposium did an entire symposium program using just carnations. The grand finale design was a collection of lucite cubes and trays glued together to create a long cubist type structure.......similar to the display example......and the only flowers were different colors of the florigene carnations made in different size orbs and the green stems were cut up and placed into the vases as a bedding on which the orbs set.

Another great example of a "look" is a florist website belonging to a well-loved member of FC. The shop she works with is evolving and changing names, logos, and the like. The arrangements pictured are all what I would call "english cottage designs". All of them are in glass vases, with mixed foliages and using a variety of flowers in the vases and only one or two stems of any particular variety. The themes appear to be carried through the entire site.

 

[Palms]

About these normal basket and posy arrangements. Do you guys not think there are a need for them. The little old lady who is someones gran wants what she likes and not what we like. I will happily make a posy and i will like it. It will have traditional greenery in with spray cars and carnations blooms, it will be within the budget, it will last well and the recipeient will love it, more than a modern design.

I just dont get why people dont like traditional anymore, everything has it's place dont you think??

 

[alisonm1215]

I think it is funny that this thread has become about carns. Wasn't it more about knowing your market. If red necks and sweet grannys want carns, it is good business to give them carns. If they want a perceived higher value flower, then that's what we sell. So what I'm saying is you are all correct in creating designs that your customers want, carns or no carns.
Now BB is another story. I am a BB snob, not because it is kitch, but because it is a pain in the butt. I substitute limo, wax or salidago which is almost as much of a pain. My customers have never had a problem with it though and most of them wouldn't know the difference. Usually I don't even use fillers. They clog up my designs.

 

[goldfish]

HeatherTuckey,

Let's say, I just opened a new flower shop right next to your shop.

Your shop has been established for ages, blessed with a large number of local clients, including funeral homes, catering houses, and many corporate accounts. My shop would have none of those. Your shop has every operational advantage, in marketing and purchasing. My shop would be in disadvantage in every aspect in day-to-day operation.

Do you think that my shop would thrive by doing the same as your shop? Or, wouldn't you become more nervous, if my shop started doing some guerrilla tactics against your shop, by giving a different choice to your existing customers?

 

[RWK]

I should have stated this better - it is not that I have any problem doing a simple, traditional, basic boring basket at all. If my customer wants that, then I am obligated to serve my customer by doing that......it is just that I personally don't like them.