winds of change

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Donna

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Jul 9, 2005
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Kilgore
www.greeneryflowersandgifts.com
State / Prov
TX
Ok - I have owned the shop for 2 years now (3rd owner in my family). Things are looking better, but still a challenge every single day to pay off debts from when my mother was sick.

We are at a point of making choices. We can grow, stay the same passively, or downsize.

Personally this week I drove 6 hours one way (with a 3 year old) to attend the funeral of my best friend's mother. Lots of time to think in the car, said a few prayers, did some more thinking.

The next day I got a phone call out of the blue with someone from my town asking if I would consider selling my property. Wow! This is a legitimate pre-offer, they are looking to expand into the property next to me and possibly take mine, too. The next afternoon one of my competitors came into the shop and while she was there she made the comment she really does not want to do Valentines day again. I don't know what to read into that. Many years ago there was discussion between my mother and this shop owner about her selling out to us, but my mother decided that she could grow our shop without the expense of buying her out.

I feel like this opened a lot of options. And questions.
How do you value property? They would not want my "business" and really don't want my building but those would have to be part of the equation. This is the first thing I need to know to go forward. We're located in a downtown area which is working hard to revitalize. I have about 15% of my business is walk in.

There are so many possibilities, selling sounds attractive because we have outgrown our building and need to make changes or remodel anyway. For the past two years I have been laying the groundwork for this. I have floor plans designed, I have a good team right now. We had a 20% gain last year and show potential for this year.

There's also the possibility of closing. The long hours and financial stress are hard on me and my family. But then I just think we are so close to SUCCESS. And I love what I do every day.

My second business is a trophy and awards shop. It is much much smaller than the flower shop, but I can run it by myself without such killing hours, without staffing problems, and without as many requirements for a building.



There are not many buildings available in our downtown area. We have been located in downtown for over 20 years, but I have the flexibility to move out, I won't lose too much because so much of our business is on the phone anyway.

so- it feels like the winds of change are blowing, I just can't see where they are coming or going.

What would you do???

thanks
Donna
 
First, Hire an Appraiser and have him value your property. Cost? @$150.00

Second, decide what you want to do, stay in the business or get out.

If you stay in, it sounds like you could buy out the other shop and move there. Hopefully her building doesn't need remodelling. If you do buy that shop have it appraised as well.

OR.... sell you property, invest the money and work for in a different shop.

The value of many flower shops is in the property not the business, at least in smaller and maybe midsized shops and that is a problem.

Right now I have 4 florists wanting me to buy their shops. The property value on at least 3 of the shops is worth more than revenue derived from the shops. In other words, I could never successfully service the debt with the current Gross Sales these shops are producing. The 4th shop and I have not discussed price yet.

If I would buy these shops, the price would have to be drastically lower than the appraised property value.

Donna, you are in an enviable situation.

joe
 
What To Do?

Donna,
As you know, we are right up the road from you about an hour away. One of the biggest problems that all florist face is that there are simply too many florists. Not to mention grocery stores etc.

When there are too many florists, no one really wins. One thing to seriously consider may be buying your competitor. Many times there are two shops working hard to "break even", when there should be only one shop....which could make a living.

Mt. Pleasant, Texas is a classic example. Right now there are 5 - 6 florists in town, plus a Walmart, and grocery stores. I believe that every shop in town may be for sale. This is nuts!!!!

The problem is that just about anyone can put in a flower shop...it doesn't take a lot of capital or a lot of brains. It does take some brains and a lot of hard work to make these businesses successful.

All the best,
 
Donna...you asked "What would we do"?

One question...how much NET profit could be realized by selling your current location and paying off ALL debt? Once you have a hard number of NET CASH left over, then you can look at your options.

Let's assume that once sold, the property would generate enough cash to pay off all current debt and leave you with enough money to finance a new location.

Personally, since I would stay in the biz (for another year or two) I would take the money (provided it was enough to make the move above), I would downsize my facility ans streamline operations, retain staff (those needed) and continue in biz. I would probably look to rent a location until I decided *if* or how many years I planned to continue working(myself).

If there is enough cash to purchase another location, that *might* be a good option, but renting in the short term may be more cost effective, eliminating building maint. expense.

You have lot's of options...but like was mentioned, FIRST you have to decide what YOU want to do...with YOU!
 
Donna,
I asked myself the very same questions ten months ago when I had a baby (at 40!). I was very much leaning toward selling and getting out. In January of this year when I was preparing paperwork for taxes, I deliberated again about the worth of all the hours I was putting in versus the money I wasn't seeing. At the same time, the house and property next to us came up for sale at a mind-boggling low price. I put many hours into thinking, and then decided I did not want to give up, but I absolutely am not going to sit here another year without working smarter. So the other owner and I are scrutinizing every little thing we can do to make a difference in expenses. We also decided that at the asking price of the property next to us, we were idiots if we didn't buy it. We are going to fence off the property and remodel the house to use as a rental. In our area, a four bedroom house can rent for $600 or $625. After the payment, taxes and insurance, that will give us about $150 in profit. Not a lot, but the larger yard combined with our property will make a very nice sized garden center (as we grow in the next few years). We have increased our property's worth as we now have a very large corner property that we can hold onto and grow, or sell for a larger profit when the time is right.

I know I haven't answered any of your questions. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I can't make the florist business grow, then I do have a very valuable piece of real estate that I can sell off as a business or as two real estate properties/individual homes. If your business property is sought after right now, I think you should take them up on it, if the price is what you need and want. As you stated, only 15% of your business is walk-in. You can take the other 85% and open in a new location.
 
Donna:
Very good advice from everyone so far. Here's some more that I'll throw your way. This was quoted to me about7 years ago when I moved my business from its former location (inside a mall) to it's present location. The %s quoted are, as I have found, very universal.....in other words, location from/to does not really matter.

When you move your business, expect to lose 25% of your GROSS SALES.
After 1 year, thru heavy advertising, you will gain back 10 to 15% of the 25% that you originally lost. The second year after the move, you will regain another 5+ %. At the end of year 2 & going into year 3, there will still be about 10% + in GROSS SALES & THEREFORE CUSTOMERS that you will lose forever......and will have to then work at replacing with other sales $$ and growing again.

The recovery period, after a move, is generally targeted in retail at 3 to 5 years. By the 5 year mark, you should have surpassed your previous Gross Sales volume by a minimum increase of 20%. (This is over the last annual volume prior to your move).

For example: Gross Sales in 2007 was $100,000. Loss of volume would be $25,000.

Recovery at the end of the first year would be to $78,750.00.
Recovery at the end of the second year would be to $81,250.00

Targeted Sales volume at the end of 5 years would be $120,000, minimum.

My question to you, if you sell your building and move (to the other flower shop, or a new and different location), can you afford to lose 25% of your GROSS SALES VOLUME, at least initially??

Remember, this will all take place while you are also incurring the costs of moving, relocating, advertising, etc -- so your unanticipated expenses will be way up.

Just some food for thought!

Good luck.....

Cheryl
 
My question to you, if you sell your building and move (to the other flower shop, or a new and different location), can you afford to lose 25% of your GROSS SALES VOLUME, at least initially??

Remember, this will all take place while you are also incurring the costs of moving, relocating, advertising, etc -- so your unanticipated expenses will be way up.

Just some food for thought!

Good luck.....

Cheryl

I have a question.

If Donna would buy the other shop and move to that location, she has then increased her slice of the market pie by consolidating two flower shops into one. Correct? no? maybe? Wouldn't that mean that her Gross Sales should go up in the first year?

Joe

ok so that was four questions. ;)
 
Joe:
If Donna buys the other shop, then in theory, her sales should go up.

Then, If she moves & consolidates both shop operations into 1 new location, her overall sales will probably go down.

If she sells her building and buys the other shop, moving her operation into the other shop, everyone could think that Donna's shop has gone out of business! This could potentially be a "not good thing"...especially depending upon the reputation of the other shop, and how well she advertises the "merger".

This is a tricky & sticky question, which will require a LOT of number crunching and gut-pulling thinking. The decision will not be an easy one to reach (I don't think, based upon the limited amount of information we have been given).

Mike (Texas Flower Guy) had some very good points about the ability of small towns to support multiple flower shops. You have to have some amount of customer base to support any type of small business today....I'm just not sure how many people that really is.

And then we throw into the mix the whole "sky is falling" but the "good times are coming.......cause the Democrats are coming back into town" economic mentality.....and who knows what to do?? Are we in a recession? Or not? Will we go up from here, or further down?

MY GUT Reaction & advise would be the following:
1. If the Appraised value on my Present building is substantial, Sell the building and do it now!!! Quickly......
2. Pay off ALL debt.....Quickly.
3. Negotiate with the other shop owner, and buy her business.....See the books and negotiate to buy the building..... or better yet, get a lease that you can get out of within 1 to 2 years, if needed.
4. Move your present business & consolidate it with the business that you are buying. Advertise the Heck out of the "merger", or "consolidation" of the two businesses. Plan on doing all this and much, much more from the time you agree to buy the business and continuing for the next 2 years. Give all customers near & far a reason to seek you out & keep coming back.
5. Do NOT keep the old owner of the shop you are buying on, under any circumstances.
6. consolidate all accounts into 1 POS system IMMEDIATELY.
7. Buy only the business assets and goodwill (including all inventory, coolers, vans (if you need them ) -- do not buy any debt that the old owner has -- this must be paid off by her with the proceeds of her sale to you.
8. Examine the financial records carefully, especially looking for tax related issues that may be lurking.
9. Eliminate all duplicate wire services immediately.
10. Review all staffing -- you will not be able to keep the staffs of 2 shops on the payroll.

That's just to get you started...........
(and on the 7thday, you can rest!! )

Hope this helps!
Cheryl
 
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Hi Cheryl,

You and I are probably looking it this scenario from two different perspectives. You are Big city and I am small town. If I moved, everyone in town would know it.

This small town thing also bothers me in that most people know me but not me them. I am always concerned offending someone by not saying hello or talking to them.... its the they know me, but not me knowing them syndrome.

Joe
 
its the they know me, but not me knowing them syndrome.

Joe,
When I go to Texas ....I have the same problem. Here's how I cope....Someone says hey Mikey or Hey Roberts! I always smile and say

Hey Ace! How's it Going?

How Ya Doin Chief?

Angel, I haven't seen you since I was a little baby!

Hey Buddy! How's the family?

Actually, I have about a half million of these and have used them for up to five minutes till I figure out who the heck I am talking to.

Just an idea....
 
Joe:
Before I answered Donna's post, I actually googled Kilgor, Texas and read a little bit.

Donna's town has a resident population of 12,000 with about 160,000 in the Greg and Rusk counties. Pretty good population base. Kilgore appears to be on an annexation push to continue to grow.

My advice was based, not soley on a "big city" vs "small town" mentality -- although I think that comes into play.

In today's world, with everyone getting moved, relocated, pushed, pulled, etc I just don't think that we all know our neighbors as well as we used to. I wish tht tht wasn't the case.

I have a friend who is in a smaller sized town here in W. Pa. When he relocated his business about 5 or so years ago, everyone thought he closed his doors. (Small town, everyone "knows" everyone).........He forgot to advertise...."they all know we moved!" It jost about wrecked his shop and almost put him out of business.

Even though we are in a bigger town than you, I still smile at every person I pass and acknowledge them....even if I cannot remember or do not know their name. Probably dumb to do , but I'm a friendly person, and I was taught that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


Cheryl
 
so- it feels like the winds of change are blowing, I just can't see where they are coming or going.

What would you do???

thanks
Donna

the time to sell, is when you have a buyer, and NOT when you REALLY have to!!
Donna, you are cornered into a classic loopback scenario...you have TOO many choices.
Answer THIS....1)do YOU want to "grow" your business, and 2) do you STILL "enjoy" your flower business??
If ANY of the above come back with "no" then move on!!
IF you wait long enough....you'll have ONLY 2 options 1) you'll put the "other" shops out of business and be "forced" to expand, or 2) you'll be "old" and your middle will expand, as you tire of the hectic pace!!
What do YOU WANT??...never mind us!!
 
I have a question.

If Donna would buy the other shop and move to that location, she has then increased her slice of the market pie by consolidating two flower shops into one. Correct? no? maybe? Wouldn't that mean that her Gross Sales should go up in the first year?

Joe

ok so that was four questions. ;)
Maybe creative financing is in order...

A purchase order for the existing property with a 6 month occupation clause...with a partial upfront payment...

Purchase second shop with this financing (partial payment) and change name (now we have two locations under same name/ownership)...

Operate both for the 6 months, allowing time to tell every customer whats going on and what the future plans are...

In the 5th month of the buyout, throw a open house party at the new location, focusing all operations in this location. Timing if done in the next couple months would put us at Christmas again at the end of the 6 months, allowing for the newer location to be full tilt holiday...time for the open house...

Make arrangements with the owner of the old location to leave signs in that location through the end of the year...presto chango...
 
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Maybe creative financing is in order...

A purchase order for the existing property with a 6 month occupation clause...with a partial upfront payment...

Purchase second shop with this financing (partial payment) and change name (now we have two locations under same name/ownership)...

Operate both for the 6 months, allowing time to tell every customer whats going on and what the future plans are...

In the 5th month of the buyout, throw a open house party at the new location, focusing all operations in this location. Timing if done in the next couple months would put us at Christmas again at the end of the 6 months, allowing for the newer location to be full tilt holiday...time for the open house...

Make arrangements with the owner of the old location to leave signs in that location through the end of the year...presto chango...

I don't think that the customer base is that flexible...it's true, you 'could" operate both locations, you "could" attempt a duel location operation, to slowly recapture displaced customers, BUT, WE found that 6 months was fairly "aggressive" even when the economy was steaming.
We undertook an integration of two high demand businesses, that were 5 doors apart in a strip mall, and it took TWO YEARS to fully realize a return of the customer base.....
Donna, Boss's advice is sound...be prepared to retain MORE working capital, than you "think" you'll need!!( usually up to twice what you anticipated)
 
Great input

Thanks everyone for the great input. It helps to get a clear head that isn't emotionally wrapped up in this.

Joe - I did call the appraiser, it is $1000 since it is commercial property. They will be out next week. That will give me an idea to start.

FlowerGuy - I will try to give you a call soon because I have a question to ask.

Cheryl - wow - very important points to consider, thank you so much for your input!

Boss - there is a possibility of continuing to rent my current location from the folks wanting to buy it while they work on construction.

Things seem to flow when they need to. I started checking out real estate in town. Found a comparable size building - too much work needed, another one just not quite right enough, then I saw a sign behind the building that is across the street from me. Seems it is for sale, but they did not want to "disrupt the current business" by putting a sign out front. Price on it looks pretty good, I would have a chance to build what I want and my customers will still find me!

I can't imagine not being in the florist industry. I have had it in the blood since I was 12. Although I left for a while, I actually planned my "vacations" from my job to come work at the shop for Valentines and Mothers Day. My daughter goes to work with me every day. She is three and waits on the customers, has an incredible vocabulary, can identify colors, flowers, and count and I think it is because of the incredible people she interacts with daily. I get so jazzed about the message we bring. This valentines day I even put up a billboard! I actually have a great team right now, and not over-staffed.

Last night I was up at 4am crunching numbers, planning, thinking, looking, and then doing it all again.

Depending on the results of the appraisal, I will be making my decisions.
Thanks again.

Donna
 
Donna, wow a $1000!!!! Did you shop around for an appraiser? Also check with your local bank. Those loan officers probably have a list of appraisers. They could also recommend a good one and a less expensive one, hopefully.

Oh yea, I forgot to mention, since 1976, we moved the Breese shop three times. The 76 move was into the competitors old building. My dad bought the competitor out. Asking price back then was $60K +, my dad negotiated a $32K sale price. He just bought the building, coolers, and some work benches and displays. NO inventory and nothing for the business customer list. Afterall we were there first and had an established business.

We saw no setback in sales after that move, but actually an increase in sales since we eliminated the competition.

We moved again in 2000. this time business didn't grow, but it also didn't contract. We all know what business has been like in this new century.

This was a much larger and brand new building that we built.

Joe
 
Although I left for a while, I actually planned my "vacations" from my job to come work at the shop for Valentines and Mothers Day.
Donna
You're a sick puppy...are you feeling OK :rofl:
 
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