Wire Services vs My Customer

[OB1]

So I've been reading the wire service bashing threads for over a year now, and they all focus on the poor fate of the florist who has to fill the incoming order.
I have a clientel that travels extensively, so I send out alot of orders. Not many incoming orders to balance, which, I agree, is in my favor.
Trouble is, my clients are at a distinct dis-advantage, because, according to most of you, you do not fill to the value I give you.
I always quote high, so that my average out of town order is 75$ PLUS 10$ or more for delivery, but what I am hearing here is that you deduct the clearing house fees, and often other fees before you begin to examine my order to you.
I am trying to be fair by always giving more than the minimums listed, but apparently, that is not enough to guartantee my customers satisfaction. The result, because I have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, is that I have to refund them for the poor performance of you, my filling friends. On those occasions when I have called you for some sort of compensation, I am, more often than not, met with opposition, and usually anger. But wait, it's you who have done a crappy job, not me. If you don't want to fill orders, then don't be a member of a wire service. Seems pretty simple to me.
I've tried the credit card thing, and have faced the same problem, with florists deducting up to 12% of my order to cover cc fees.
Seems to me that there are a lot of very short sighted florists out there, many of them right here on FC, who feel that in order to keep in business, a buck must be made on every order, rather than thinking in order to grow a business, sometimes you have to do what is right.
Thoughts?

 

[emilymoonflower]

Joanne,
What's up with the 12% deduction to cover credit card fees - I've never encountered that (to my knowledge ), did they also do the 80/20 split on top of that?
I only handled wire-outs as a TF member and that was for the convenience of my customers who had out of town relatives.
Whenever I received an order from a FC member I always did a little extra ( not to brown nose, but in appreciation of receiving the business). I too had a 100% satisfaction guarantee and that went both ways.
Emily

 

[pdxdoug]

If we fill an order, the only deduction we make is the delivery charge.
$60 order, $8 delivery, order filled at $52. No extra deductions, It's my reputation too!

Because we don't carry poms, alstro, carns, fillers, mugs, baskets and balloons it limits us to what we can fill. That's why we're a 'poor' WS florist in their eyes, but you'll get full value from us.

Doug

 

[Dick Adgate Florist]

I think that maybe you're confused about the Net Profit thread. We're deducting things for the purpose of figuring what profit may be made from an incoming order. We are not actually deducting it prior to filling the order. As with the previous responders, we only figure for delivery,the rest goes to filling the order.

 

[sloan]

We don't deduct.

 

[Doug Munro]

So I've been reading the wire service bashing threads for over a year now, and they all focus on the poor fate of the florist who has to fill the incoming order.
I have a clientel that travels extensively, so I send out alot of orders. Not many incoming orders to balance, which, I agree, is in my favor.
Trouble is, my clients are at a distinct dis-advantage, because, according to most of you, you do not fill to the value I give you.
I always quote high, so that my average out of town order is 75$ PLUS 10$ or more for delivery, but what I am hearing here is that you deduct the clearing house fees, and often other fees before you begin to examine my order to you.
I am trying to be fair by always giving more than the minimums listed, but apparently, that is not enough to guartantee my customers satisfaction. The result, because I have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, is that I have to refund them for the poor performance of you, my filling friends. On those occasions when I have called you for some sort of compensation, I am, more often than not, met with opposition, and usually anger. But wait, it's you who have done a crappy job, not me. If you don't want to fill orders, then don't be a member of a wire service. Seems pretty simple to me.
I've tried the credit card thing, and have faced the same problem, with florists deducting up to 12% of my order to cover cc fees.
Seems to me that there are a lot of very short sighted florists out there, many of them right here on FC, who feel that in order to keep in business, a buck must be made on every order, rather than thinking in order to grow a business, sometimes you have to do what is right.
Thoughts?

Joanne,

As many on this board know I truly believe that in many cases the "Achilles Heel" of out of town flower delivery is the fulfiller. Like you the bulk of our wire business is outgoing and quite frankly we have dozens (if not hundreds) of stories of fulfillers who have let us down or did a shoddy job. Unfortunately when we ask for the probblem to be made right we are met with opposition in many cases.

I personally believe that the amount of wire service bashing that takes place is one of the reasons, a lot of florists ( as evident on this board) feel they are getting the short end of the stick in their dealings with wire services. As such although they will accept an incoming wire order, they feel they are being taken advantage of and being forced into losing money. Their solution in many cases is simply to fulfill to a greatly reduced value.

My solution would be a lot simpler, if a fulfiller is not happy with what they will legitimately receive as a net amount on an order don't accept it. If they feel that this is a problem with all incoming wire, quit the wire service. But under NO circumstances should they enter into a service agreement (with which they did so voluntarily) and then skim the order. As far as I am concerned that is dishonest and is part of what is hurting this industry.

I am certain that my comments will bring a flood of response about dishonest order gatherers and their business practices. If so, I have a question.
How do the dishonest practices of some (not all) senders make it ok for for some (not all) fulfillers to practice dishonest fulfillment and skim orders?
Do two wrongs make on right?

 

[BOSS]

I am certain that my comments will bring a flood of response about dishonest order gatherers and their business practices.

If so, I have a question.
How do the dishonest practices of some (not all) senders make it ok for for some (not all) fulfillers to practice dishonest fulfillment and skim orders?
Do two wrongs make on right?

No flood from me, said it all before, and will again at some point. But to answer your question...

No, two wrongs never make a right. And like anything else, many folks are hurting today because of practices of the past, and once you start shaving a little here, and a little there it simply carries over to every other aspect of life. You have to draw a line somewhere and say no.

I'd bet the florists that skim also short change their kids lunch money.

 

[RWK]

Joanne is right about one thing.......What about the customers? - We get so caught up in the wire service debacle of sending, filling, discounting, order gatherers, the dishonest practices.....yet we overlook one aspect continually.

At the beginning of every OG order, wire order, incoming order, outgoing order......they all begin with a real person, wanting to send real flowers, wanting to express a sentiment or feeling.

With all the commentary from both pro wire service/OG and non wire service/OG - no one mentions the customer. Is it wrong to exclude their real feelings just because they have not been educated about what is good and bad about who they use to send flowers? They suffer when their flowers aren't recieved by their loved ones. They are the ones who spent hard-earned money and hoping to get something in return, they are the ones who are hurt the most in all of this.

Let's not forget that ultimately, the beginnings are all found in REAL PEOPLE, with REAL EMOTIONS.

 

[conchandler]

Ricky is right, thank you. And that's why I could no longer fill for 1800 because even at value, the arrangements came up short, so that too many times I felt the need to "stuff". We always fill to value, because I once worked for a florist who did not, and always got complaints. I did not want that kind of business for myself. As for no longer being TF, most of our business was incoming, except in May and Dec, so the cost per order became too high to continue making a profit. So no OG bashing, just making the best business decision for us. But, we ALWAYS filled to value - never got complaints on that.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I'm going to run this past you, tell me what you think.......we received an order from a major OG, that is also a REAL FLORIST, so we accept their orders without question!! Anyways, the order arrived later on friday, for an earlier saturday funeral visitation, it had specific requests, with NO 2nd choice, and we called 4 shops in our area if THEY could fill the order, then we would transfer...NO LUCK.
Called a couple of local suppliers with no luck, so, called a couple of our Mississauga suppliers, and sure enough, they had what we needed, dropped everything and ran, we were so busy, at the time!!
The order was for $218.00....so, between delivery, and my time to and from Toronto, I deducted $35.00, and filled the order, almost to the "T".
The transmitting shop apparently didn't forward the card message correctly,but, there was nothing "glaring" or "red flag" on that either, so we followed the card message as received.
The following week, we got not so complimentary messages, from BOTH the sending shop, and the senders, that Holdens did a really crappy job, and that WE screwed up the card message, and we had a polite conversation with the sending shop, that perhaps, this "issue" stems from a poor transmittal of the card message, that "boiled over" to unhappy senders, that the order was to value, but, we filled to the best of our abilities.
So BEFORE any of you start jumping on the proverbial bandwagon, that you DON'T deduct, or DON'T have intentions of making money of filling orders, think about all the ramifications of getting things done, and the "risks" you take, on every single order that has such narrow to NO margins!!
Most filling shops do so, without question, but, EVERY market has it's own set of issues, and just because YOU got a great deal on product, and YOUR shop is paid for, and YOU "undersell" when you send out, the finger pointing is getting a little lame!
The 80/20 split, was designed for the $39.95 membership days, when most, if not all orders, were moved through the WS grapevine, the wire service model is broken!
Many of us live, and work in areas, that are NOT serviced by ANYONE, but ourselves, and the huge service areas, require massive support costs, to "enable" same day service as we claim, is our "claim to fame".
Anyways, to make a long story short, that OG/florist doesn't send us orders anymore...do I feel bad, well sure, their "perception" was that we let them down, BUT, how many times did we JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to get their orders out, and yet, it took just one, to destroy a relationship that spanned many years!
It is INCORRECT to just "assume" that so many shops do a crappy job of filling orders......MANY shops, DO NOT HAVE, the product availability that SOME of us have, and MUCH of this "problem" CAN and MUST be cleared up by selling your outgoing orders to customers, that are DULY ADVISED IN ADVANCE, that not EVERY SHOP, is equipped with what YOU have in stock, and offering NO 2nd choice/open order choices, are recipes for disasters/unhappy clients!
This is why, you are maybe "noticing" the number of shops, that are just REJecting your orders, and NOT FORwarding them, and NOT CO-operating with you when issues arise that are out of the norm!
Most of the "crappy shops" are out of business, the ones that are left, will make a "profit" whatever it takes, however thin, and get ready for higher prices, and DON'T think for one minute, that ANY of us, are gonna make it, by working for nothing, 'cause, that's how it was ONCE DONE!!

 

[master J]

Great thread Joanne! Yes, the fillers are a big problem, just as bad as the deceptive senders. The customers are the ones getting screwed in the end, which is why our industry has a black eye.

I am a sending only florist, I choose not to fill incoming, except a few from FSN. I just recently sent a funeral order out of state for a really good local customer. It was for his wifes mother. He ordered it 4 days in advance and spent $125

Well, he called me from the cemetary claiming the flowers were not delivered, he was furious, and his wife was in tears! I felt soooo helpless and embarrassed, and there was nothing I could do to fix it

Turns out the florist just decided not to fill it at all which is even worse than skimming, because they werent sure where to deliver it at cematary! We got the message the day of the funeral 30 minutes before it started! Some florists really suck! Sorry! We had a phone # and the delivery instructions clear as day on the order. All they had to do was call phone # and get the exact info...but they were too lazy to do that and decided to sit on order and not fill at all??

I had to aplogize over and over again to my customer which just wasn't good enough, there is no excuse for something like that to happen. Especially on a funeral order for their mother. I felt so helpless.

I have also experienced a lot of complaints from other wire outs.

So much for quality assurance.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Great thread Joanne! Yes, the fillers are a big problem, just as bad as the deceptive senders. The customers are the ones getting screwed in the end, which is why our industry has a black eye.

I am a sending only florist, I choose not to fill incoming, except a few from FSN. I just recently sent a funeral order out of state for a really good local customer. It was for his wifes mother. He ordered it 4 days in advance and spent $125

Well, he called me from the cemetary claiming the flowers were not delivered, he was furious, and his wife was in tears! I felt soooo helpless and embarrassed, and there was nothing I could do to fix it

Turns out the florist just decided not to fill it at all which is even worse than skimming, because they werent sure where to deliver it at cematary! We got the message the day of the funeral 30 minutes before it started! Some florists really suck! Sorry! We had a phone # and the delivery instructions clear as day on the order. All they had to do was call phone # and get the exact info...but they were too lazy to do that and decided to sit on order and not fill at all??

I had to aplogize over and over again to my customer which just wasn't good enough, there is no excuse for something like that to happen. Especially on a funeral order for their mother. I felt so helpless.

I have also experienced a lot of complaints from other wire outs.

So much for quality assurance.

Another "bain" in our industry...you want to "send only".....great idea...in theory, so, why would a shop want to "fill" you order, if they cannot "expect" you fill THEIRS??...IF you feel so inclined, do what MANY of us do, give the sender a couple of phone numbers, and be done with it!!...the responsibility, is OUT of your hands......oh, what a sec, YOU wanted a "commission??"....oh, silly me!!

 

[master J]

You may be right Mikey, there are a lot of "bains" in this industry, but I choose not to fill those orders through WS because I got too many junk orders and it was wasting my time. I am not trying to preach to anyone on what is right or wrong, I am just saying, if you choose to fill, you should fill without skimming, or in my case, at least fill the order at all when there is a funeral or something very important.

As for giving customer a number to call a florist direct instead, I do do that in a lot of cases, but most of my customers don't want to bother with that, so I provide that service for my customers who don't want to be bothered and yes I make money(commission) on that order.

The reason I use the WS for sending only is because it's easy for me to click button on my POS. I don't have time to be calling florists direct with orders, it take too much time.

I thought this thread was more about the filling florist not the usual sending florist problems....

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Listen kids, there's enough of us here, to have a frank discussion about the massive division, between the old era, and new age thinking when it comes to order transfer! Us "old timers" feel "compelled to fill VERY INCOMING ORDER, what ever the cost, the the new age kids, whom are much smarter than we EVER were/are, and saying "screw that", we want volume, smaller margins, and let's drive the McDonalds mentality, because Walmart competes with us, and we need a crutch to kick out, when we feel injured or have been done an injustice!
Month after month, year after year, we complain about our industry being poorly serviced, but, it's someone ELSE'S fault, NOT our own, let's point our fingers at the wire service of choice, and their stable of "lacking" members that do a "crappy job" as has been quoted in this thread, time and time again, but, GOD FORBID, that anyone should take a look in the mirror!!
We are NOT pizza shops, we are NOT chicken delivery shops, we are NOT generic suppliers to the masses, at the lowest price point, none of us sell milk, or bread, or eggs, or essentials, and few of us, can openly compete with the big box/grocery stores that CAN and DO contain many "mini departments" operating on slim budgets, but, once added together, make some pretty impressive profits, because in some cases, they entertain THOUSANDS of customers A DAY!!
We are very specific, VERY specifically tied to our local economies, with different needs, and different "overheads" and few of us get THOUSANDS of walkin customers in a WHOLE YEAR, let alone in a day!!
Selling is EVERYTHING, and "remembering" that when you "sell" an outgoing order, the trust is PUT ON YOU, as the sending shop, to do EVERYTHING in your power, to get the order filled correctly, INCLUDING CALLING a potential fill shop, when you CANNOT determine FOR SURE, that they CAN fill this order for you!!
For TOO LONG, sending shops, just take the order, send it, DON'T check, and EXPECT the fill shop to fulfill the order as given, often with little to NO leeway!!
Here's a "revelation" ....many "filling" shops have THEIR OWN customer base TOO you know, and when busy, sometimes DON'T check their Mercs, and sometimes DON'T get back to you RIGHT AWAY, and DON'T always have time to fill YOUR orders, or even WANT to deal with ridiculous requests, for flowers out of season, or undervalue, or timed deliveries to ridiculous areas!
When there is ANY DOUBT, pick up the stupid phone, yes, PICK IT UP, CALL, find OUT if there is ANY potential for failure, THAT is the job of the sending florist, NOT that of the filling florist!!

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

You may be right Mikey, there are a lot of "bains" in this industry, but I choose not to fill those orders through WS because I got too many junk orders and it was wasting my time. I am not trying to preach to anyone on what is right or wrong, I am just saying, if you choose to fill, you should fill without skimming, or in my case, at least fill the order at all when there is a funeral or something very important.

As for giving customer a number to call a florist direct instead, I do do that in a lot of cases, but most of my customers don't want to bother with that, so I provide that service for my customers who don't want to be bothered and yes I make money(commission) on that order.

The reason I use the WS for sending only is because it's easy for me to click button on my POS. I don't have time to be calling florists direct with orders, it take too much time.

I thought this thread was more about the filling florist not the usual sending florist problems....

Adam, you've "answered" the "bain" in our industry!
"Easy" is our "bain", with NO "backup" plan!
Adam, I missed you birthday...MY bad...Happy Birthday!!

 

[master J]

Well, Mikey, again you are correct, after the experience I had with the funeral order. I will be picking up the phone a lot more to follow up on a lot of the outgoing orders. It's unfortunate that it has come to that, but yeah, you are right! It's my fault, that I took the easy route of just clicking a button and hoping that the florist on the other end will take good care of my order. It's my responsibility in the end. If I choose to be responsible for taking a wire out, then I need to suck it up and be ready for what can go wrong.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

So I've been reading the wire service bashing threads for over a year now, and they all focus on the poor fate of the florist who has to fill the incoming order.
I have a clientel that travels extensively, so I send out alot of orders. Not many incoming orders to balance, which, I agree, is in my favor.
Trouble is, my clients are at a distinct dis-advantage, because, according to most of you, you do not fill to the value I give you.
I always quote high, so that my average out of town order is 75$ PLUS 10$ or more for delivery, but what I am hearing here is that you deduct the clearing house fees, and often other fees before you begin to examine my order to you.
I am trying to be fair by always giving more than the minimums listed, but apparently, that is not enough to guartantee my customers satisfaction. The result, because I have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, is that I have to refund them for the poor performance of you, my filling friends. On those occasions when I have called you for some sort of compensation, I am, more often than not, met with opposition, and usually anger. But wait, it's you who have done a crappy job, not me. If you don't want to fill orders, then don't be a member of a wire service. Seems pretty simple to me.
I've tried the credit card thing, and have faced the same problem, with florists deducting up to 12% of my order to cover cc fees.
Seems to me that there are a lot of very short sighted florists out there, many of them right here on FC, who feel that in order to keep in business, a buck must be made on every order, rather than thinking in order to grow a business, sometimes you have to do what is right.
Thoughts?

Joanne, a few years back, our funeral tributes started at $25.00, now they start at $75.00.......are there any "revelations" in that??

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Also Joanne....
Joanne, a few years back, our funeral tributes started at $25.00, now they start at $75.00.......are there any "revelations" in that??
A few years back, our delivery was $3.95, now it's $9.95, or $10.95, or $14.95, and if you send me $10.00 for a delivery, and I pay my drivers $9.95 per delivery, and it's less 20%, less 7%, less incoming order costs, less DelCon costs, less overhead costs, where do you think the difference will come from??
You're a pretty smart gal......give it a shot!...maybe you can clear up this little mystery!!

 

[OB1]

So many good points brought up already.
We ONLY call the filling florist, I don't use Dove, I prefer to speak directly to the filling florist.
We NEVER sell specific arrangements, only give general instructions, ie "pretty and pink", or "masculine with tropical flowers", or "her favorite flowers are freesia, so if you have some, please include them", etc. I totally understand the challenges of not being able to carry every flower in the world, and common sense must rule when requesting flowers in a different part of the country.
If a florist asks me to deliver something for them for which I do not have the product, I fess up, and say, sorry, I can't help you with that, try "So and So Florist", they often carry that type of product.We will then provide the phone number for that florist also.
Look, that's just the the polite and helpful thing to do, so we do it. It doesn't take any longer to be pleasant. Just seems like there is alot of anger out there that sometimes is directed where it doesn't belong. And in the end, the person who get's disappointed is our customer, and they begin to lose trust in us, and then they think, well maybe this time, Ill try sending one of those stupid fruit arrangements instead because the flower thing didn't work out last time, and then we've lost a customer. And that affects ALL of us.
JP

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

So many good points brought up already.
We ONLY call the filling florist, I don't use Dove, I prefer to speak directly to the filling florist.
We NEVER sell specific arrangements, only give general instructions, ie "pretty and pink", or "masculine with tropical flowers", or "her favorite flowers are freesia, so if you have some, please include them", etc. I totally understand the challenges of not being able to carry every flower in the world, and common sense must rule when requesting flowers in a different part of the country.
If a florist asks me to deliver something for them for which I do not have the product, I fess up, and say, sorry, I can't help you with that, try "So and So Florist", they often carry that type of product.We will then provide the phone number for that florist also.
Look, that's just the the polite and helpful thing to do, so we do it. It doesn't take any longer to be pleasant. Just seems like there is alot of anger out there that sometimes is directed where it doesn't belong. And in the end, the person who get's disappointed is our customer, and they begin to lose trust in us, and then they think, well maybe this time, Ill try sending one of those stupid fruit arrangements instead because the flower thing didn't work out last time, and then we've lost a customer. And that affects ALL of us.
JP

I'd love for Joanne's reply, to become the mantra of our industry...her shop is busy, what does THAT "tell" you.
I KNOW what it "tells" me........there's a LOT of LAZY florists out there, and THOSE are the ones that cause most of our industry's injustice, and the wire services have EVERY reason to be blamed for "allowing" it....... no longer are wires services, ANY of them, to be considered a worthy partner...just "tools"....