I am new to this site, I am enjoying it. I have found alot of interesting things. My sister and I are starting a flower shop in a small town. We thought about using a ws, then I read about some of them on here and would love your opinions on whether or not we should go with a ws?!
WS - Good or Bad?
- Thread starter cmdean
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Audra
New Member
That's a difficult question to answer because it depends on your clientele. My gut reaction is 'no, you don't need them' when talking to a new shop. Unless you end up sending a high volume of orders out of your own delivery area, you really don't need one. Many florists (and I would guess everyone here) will accept direct orders from other florists when placed on a shop credit card. Some of us even give a percentage off Florist to Florist orders.
Audra
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
With what Audra said...and you stating that you are *starting* a shop... I would say hold off for the time being, but thats just me.
More info needed to make a logical comment... how many other shops in the town, population demographics, nearest large cities, your experience...come to mind for starters.
Welcome to FlowerChat.... there IS an answer here for every question you may have, just might not be the right answer, depending on your point of view
More info needed to make a logical comment... how many other shops in the town, population demographics, nearest large cities, your experience...come to mind for starters.
Welcome to FlowerChat.... there IS an answer here for every question you may have, just might not be the right answer, depending on your point of view
I would learn the business and make your shop work. A wire service will not support a shop and the expense can put constraints on your ability to market your shop locally. Make your shop YOURS first.
Mikey the Flower Guy
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Or......
just to get the curiosity out of the way, approach a WS on a trial basis (often free)from the beginning of December to the end of May, and decide THEN, if you REALLY NEED IT!!
STILL boils down to your service area demographics!!
IF you are in a young community, spend your money on a good website, BUT get involved in the community either way!!
just to get the curiosity out of the way, approach a WS on a trial basis (often free)from the beginning of December to the end of May, and decide THEN, if you REALLY NEED IT!!
STILL boils down to your service area demographics!!
IF you are in a young community, spend your money on a good website, BUT get involved in the community either way!!
Wire srevices can be OK or Very Bad, I wouldn't use the terms "great" or "have to have". We have had recent success with 1800flowers and FTD over the last several months. You really have to watch the monthly statements and check everything - twice - and make sure you understand all of the nickel and dime charges. I have had billing issues with both of these wire services but they have returned my calls within 24 hours and resolved the issues to my satification thus far, so I have been pleased with the outcome. We certainly aren't getting rich using them, but they are a source of cash flow.
We have had terrible luck with TF. I suspect it was a result of our account manager and her supervisor screwing up our account so bad that it couldn't be fixed. TF service may vary from region to region - I can't believe they treat many of their customers the way we were treated - they would be out of business. I think we may have just had bad luck. In any case, their customer service is horrible and down right evil. Be very careful if you choose to do business with them. This is purely my opnion and opnions vary. I would ask other florists in the area whom they are using and generate some kind of score card to base your decision. One thing that is common to all of them will be billing issues, so score the ones that treat their respective customers the best the highest.
Hope this helps.
E
In line with what Mikey said, you can get a free trial membership and also explore the marketing and promotional materials available through TF & FTD. The prices are often as good or better than what a florist can produce on their own, and the images are far better.
Remember, this is a new florist: they won't have time to dedicate to creating marketing materials. There are ready-made or easily customizable materials from the WS that can be effectively used to start your marketing.
Ryan
Remember, this is a new florist: they won't have time to dedicate to creating marketing materials. There are ready-made or easily customizable materials from the WS that can be effectively used to start your marketing.
Ryan
A new florist should have their marketing concepts, product images and printed materials ready before they open.
I've seen a few recent start-ups that have had their branding, product photos and websites built before they opened their doors to consumers.
They will wax the competition - because they run their stores as businesses, have a vision and clear brand identity, and don't need to rely on the same old, same old as the rest of the stores in their communities.
Cmdean, welcome to FlowerChat. You'll get lots of opinions about the value of wire services here. If you're signing up to send orders for your valued local customers, a service makes sense. If you're signing up receive incoming orders in lieu of your own local marketing, get your calculator out first.
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
This is very good advice.
First off the only way you will learn is from your own mistakes. Trying out the Wire Service this way is good as long as you understand the basics of what your business needs to do to make a profit on every thing that you do. Pretend that you are paying the membership and fees and so on. Take everything into conserderation and determine how much you need to charge your customers to cover all of your expenses and leave yourself something as well. A business plan is the one thing that you should have in place before you bowrrow steal or use savings to start your business.
Good luck on your business.
Connie
New Member
We have recently become completely WS free. Our bottom line is blacker than it has ever been. We are free of the choking fees and charges. It takes a while to get out of a WS once you're it, so even if you accept a free trial membership, you might have to remain a member (pay fees) after you resign. That will happen if you resign after certain cut off dates.
We also had terrible experiences with TF, especially when we were new. They, IMHO (not so H), took advantage of our inexperience, big time. We had to get smart and tough and take control.
We also had terrible experiences with TF, especially when we were new. They, IMHO (not so H), took advantage of our inexperience, big time. We had to get smart and tough and take control.
12BucksFor2Dozon
New Member
Yes I think everyone here has a inkling about how I feel about the WSs, but since you are new, I'll give you the short version.
Mistake 1. we joined TF and FTD when we opened. Being new, we thought this would be a way to guarantee some cash flow and help establish our brand.
What we learned 1. Because we were new, no one knew about our shop, so we rarely received incomings. We learned that the "old-time" heavy volume senders network the profitable orders among themselves, and are not looking at new shops to fill nice orders. You will occasionally get a rejected order that someone with more experience than you tossed because it contained very little, if any, profit.
Mistake 2. Wow, we thought, people are going to be calling us all day, sending OOA orders and that 20% cut sounds like easy easy money!
What we learned 2. There are, at last count, 372 GADZILLON flower ordering sites on the web, many of which are spending upwards of $10 per click to capture OOA orders. Because of bad experiences with overcharging order gatherers (OG), and low price points set by direct shippers like Proflowers and FTD, people will most likely NOT use your shop to send OOA orders. I think we used to get 1 outgoing every other week, and we had a nice yellowbook presense and signage proclaiming our misguided "we send everywhere!" message.
Mistake 3. My partner, and GREAT designer but not so great with the numbers (this was 4 years ago, she gets it now) didn't realize that with all the fees, the neverending nickle and dime crap, and the fact that you have to wait 45 days to get paid for flowers you have to buy today, that you have to have AT LEAST $2k/month in WS sales just to break even, much less make any profit.
What we learned 3. That is, realizing that you are only getting 73% of the order, like 60-70 orders/month. That is 3 a day! And everyday you don't get any orders (like most of the summers), thats 3 more on top of the 3 you need today. Once the hole starts its pretty improbable you will ever climb out of it.
My hard-won advice? Try to build your business and brand the "old-fashioned" way, with a nice web site, lots of local marketing stuff, and never ending promotion. If you notice a lot of customers asking for OOA orders, THEN consider joining.
IF you need promo stuff, get it from John Henry. Gook luck, your are going to need your share...
Mistake 1. we joined TF and FTD when we opened. Being new, we thought this would be a way to guarantee some cash flow and help establish our brand.
What we learned 1. Because we were new, no one knew about our shop, so we rarely received incomings. We learned that the "old-time" heavy volume senders network the profitable orders among themselves, and are not looking at new shops to fill nice orders. You will occasionally get a rejected order that someone with more experience than you tossed because it contained very little, if any, profit.
Mistake 2. Wow, we thought, people are going to be calling us all day, sending OOA orders and that 20% cut sounds like easy easy money!
What we learned 2. There are, at last count, 372 GADZILLON flower ordering sites on the web, many of which are spending upwards of $10 per click to capture OOA orders. Because of bad experiences with overcharging order gatherers (OG), and low price points set by direct shippers like Proflowers and FTD, people will most likely NOT use your shop to send OOA orders. I think we used to get 1 outgoing every other week, and we had a nice yellowbook presense and signage proclaiming our misguided "we send everywhere!" message.
Mistake 3. My partner, and GREAT designer but not so great with the numbers (this was 4 years ago, she gets it now) didn't realize that with all the fees, the neverending nickle and dime crap, and the fact that you have to wait 45 days to get paid for flowers you have to buy today, that you have to have AT LEAST $2k/month in WS sales just to break even, much less make any profit.
What we learned 3. That is, realizing that you are only getting 73% of the order, like 60-70 orders/month. That is 3 a day! And everyday you don't get any orders (like most of the summers), thats 3 more on top of the 3 you need today. Once the hole starts its pretty improbable you will ever climb out of it.
My hard-won advice? Try to build your business and brand the "old-fashioned" way, with a nice web site, lots of local marketing stuff, and never ending promotion. If you notice a lot of customers asking for OOA orders, THEN consider joining.
IF you need promo stuff, get it from John Henry. Gook luck, your are going to need your share...
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
believe me -they do treat many of their customers this way. we are one of them.
12bucks post should be printed as gospel in the "what every new florist needs to know handbook"
question about BIG 2
As a shop with 25 year history, we have been members of both ws because that was the thing to do. Now I am evaluating and reevaluating these options. Could someone please help me to understand a few things.
Up to a year ago 3 of the 4 shops in town were both TF and FTD. We always had a large percentage of wire in business compared to local competitors.
Our outgoing has ALWAYS exceeded incoming by approx 3 to 1 in both services combined.
Now there are 2 FTD shops (us and one other) and we are the only TF shop. My outgoing still exceeds incoming, and yes, there is an increase in direct orders and people calling and saying they are looking at our website.
My biggest question is this: through the history, my incoming FTD is about 25% of incoming TF orders. What would cause this discrepancy?
In reviewing my statements, about half of my incoming orders are from shops I deal with daily (neighboring towns, etc) so my plan is to talk to them and work out direct or credit card plan.
I guess my second question would be about numbers. After learning from this board, I have "met" many people who have advised me directly and indirectly and who have taught me to look closely at wire service numbers. 2 years ago I was at a direct break even with both ws. It has been a few months since I ran the ws profit calculator on the numbers but I will do it again this weekend. Is there any estimate of the percentage of florists total that are members of the ws and percentage who are not?? This group is very vocal, and very business smart but it has made me change many attitudes and look much closer at my business. I know how much I pay each month before I ever get an order in. There is still a fear factor in letting go.
Thanks for all the help
Donna
As a shop with 25 year history, we have been members of both ws because that was the thing to do. Now I am evaluating and reevaluating these options. Could someone please help me to understand a few things.
Up to a year ago 3 of the 4 shops in town were both TF and FTD. We always had a large percentage of wire in business compared to local competitors.
Our outgoing has ALWAYS exceeded incoming by approx 3 to 1 in both services combined.
Now there are 2 FTD shops (us and one other) and we are the only TF shop. My outgoing still exceeds incoming, and yes, there is an increase in direct orders and people calling and saying they are looking at our website.
My biggest question is this: through the history, my incoming FTD is about 25% of incoming TF orders. What would cause this discrepancy?
In reviewing my statements, about half of my incoming orders are from shops I deal with daily (neighboring towns, etc) so my plan is to talk to them and work out direct or credit card plan.
I guess my second question would be about numbers. After learning from this board, I have "met" many people who have advised me directly and indirectly and who have taught me to look closely at wire service numbers. 2 years ago I was at a direct break even with both ws. It has been a few months since I ran the ws profit calculator on the numbers but I will do it again this weekend. Is there any estimate of the percentage of florists total that are members of the ws and percentage who are not?? This group is very vocal, and very business smart but it has made me change many attitudes and look much closer at my business. I know how much I pay each month before I ever get an order in. There is still a fear factor in letting go.
Thanks for all the help
Donna
PhillyPhlorist
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- Feb 7, 2004
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Welocme! Glad to have you on board here at FC!
You will find this topic WELL covered here...both from pro W/S and anti-W/s folks.
My only advice would be WHAT do you need from the wire service? What services other than transferring orders do you need? Credit Card clearing? Holiday Product? Web Site? Technology (i.e. a POS system)?
Some here will say you can do it all on your own - being wire service free. But see, that all depends! Do you need the services they offer, or can you do it on your own - getting all the things you need with less cost. Varies from shop to shop.
But, like Mikey said - give one a try! It may or may not work out for you. Do do yourself a favor and do NOT tie your options down by signing ANY long-term deal - technology wise or other. Some w/s will offer you something "FREE" but the fine print says you have to send 20-something orders a month or else you will be charged $XX.XX for not sending enough....
- Herb
Welcome to flower chat!
Here's my own general rule of thumb for starting a brand new, small retail store. First calculate the recurring fixed expense (rent, salary, utilities, debt service). Multiply that number by 10. Do you have at least that amount of cash in hand? If you don't, you will have a cash-flow problem sooner than you realize now.
Let's say you have only 100K in cash in your bank. Your fixed expense, including debt serice, must be less than 10K a month. Must be, otherwise, your chance of business failure would be quite high. This assumes that you don't have much business experience in the florist industry.
Starting a new store with a WS will add to the fixed expense. Too much risk, in my opinion if you are starting a new shop with not much experience. If you are buying a florist who already has a WS, then you need to figure out whether it makes sense to keep it.
The number of florists serving your town (6 FTD, 3 TF, according to our database) and the minimum $$$ you set for incoming orders, relative to other shops. Your TF listing says your store's minimum appears to be the least expensive among the three shops serving your town.
What's the average price for those orders sent by your neighboring florists. Chances are they are just forwarding the orders that they don't want to fill. We, for example, do that all the time. In that case, the orders did not originate from them, so you can't cut the deal with them for diret orders.
First I want to say WELCOME to the flower shop owner club. LOL and of course FC!
With little information provided it's hard to say rather you should or shouldn't be in a wire service.
I , unlike several are one of the few that really makes money being in a wire service. It's not the wire service that makes me money, it's how I take the incoming orders and run with it. You, not just have to know how to look at a picture and make it, that's the easy and loosing money way, you have to know the marketing strategies and know them well, decide which incoming will make you money and which won't. You can't just stop there in making your decision either. Know your competitors, your customers, your town. By this I mean competitors.... are they in WS's and which ones, your customers... young, old, high income/low income, professions, etc. then your town... is this an old town not moving with time or is it growing located outside a very large city, what type of businesses, corp, small, etc. After you do your extensive research, you need to have a business plan. Like several have suggested a brand.
In my case I am located on the border of Houston and 2 smaller towns, opened 10 yrs ago, and got into the wire services 5 yrs ago. Reason for that is the 2 smaller towns started growing at a rapid pace and are still growing, ex: Katy in 1990 pop. 5600 /// today: over 100,000 so I thought how could I let these newcomers know I exist, by deciding to join a service I would fill the order, add my newsletter , business cards and thank you postcard to the arrangement. It accomplished the recipient knowing I existed in the area, building loyalty to the original customer via thank you postcard. Then there is the 1st time buyer/recip. letter to get them to buy, along with that marketing you need a webpage, with me that was a monster so I have a what most call Cookie Cutter webpage thru FTD, but you just don't stop there! you market that webpage as well, you also need to network with the DOTCOMs to get the incomings from throwbacks (orders) to 150-200/monthly, that's what I get in the summer months! But in filling that many you need to have the cash reserve, because you are putting out before you get that money in 45 days earlier. do the 10x's on expenses like one suggested above. Send thank yous to the sending florists to get more incoming.
Does not matter which POS system you get but get that as in YESTERDAY!
Me personally if you are in a non growing small town, you probably will be sending more verses incoming, that is what happens in a smaller town, if that's the case I would not join a service, since you are computer oriented when sending out you just type in zip and whalaa you have a florist in that town direct order with a CC. On the webpage, just go with anyone of the million and one designers, but personally I would start right here at FC , there are several that can design one for you and get you up and running.
I hope I have given you another side of the picture in making your decision, if you need more information or have any questions on some of these techniques I use, you can email me.
Again, welcome to the flower shop world and good luck to you in whatever your decision is.
Regards,
Cyndi
With little information provided it's hard to say rather you should or shouldn't be in a wire service.
I , unlike several are one of the few that really makes money being in a wire service. It's not the wire service that makes me money, it's how I take the incoming orders and run with it. You, not just have to know how to look at a picture and make it, that's the easy and loosing money way, you have to know the marketing strategies and know them well, decide which incoming will make you money and which won't. You can't just stop there in making your decision either. Know your competitors, your customers, your town. By this I mean competitors.... are they in WS's and which ones, your customers... young, old, high income/low income, professions, etc. then your town... is this an old town not moving with time or is it growing located outside a very large city, what type of businesses, corp, small, etc. After you do your extensive research, you need to have a business plan. Like several have suggested a brand.
In my case I am located on the border of Houston and 2 smaller towns, opened 10 yrs ago, and got into the wire services 5 yrs ago. Reason for that is the 2 smaller towns started growing at a rapid pace and are still growing, ex: Katy in 1990 pop. 5600 /// today: over 100,000 so I thought how could I let these newcomers know I exist, by deciding to join a service I would fill the order, add my newsletter , business cards and thank you postcard to the arrangement. It accomplished the recipient knowing I existed in the area, building loyalty to the original customer via thank you postcard. Then there is the 1st time buyer/recip. letter to get them to buy, along with that marketing you need a webpage, with me that was a monster so I have a what most call Cookie Cutter webpage thru FTD, but you just don't stop there! you market that webpage as well, you also need to network with the DOTCOMs to get the incomings from throwbacks (orders) to 150-200/monthly, that's what I get in the summer months! But in filling that many you need to have the cash reserve, because you are putting out before you get that money in 45 days earlier. do the 10x's on expenses like one suggested above. Send thank yous to the sending florists to get more incoming.
Does not matter which POS system you get but get that as in YESTERDAY!
Me personally if you are in a non growing small town, you probably will be sending more verses incoming, that is what happens in a smaller town, if that's the case I would not join a service, since you are computer oriented when sending out you just type in zip and whalaa you have a florist in that town direct order with a CC. On the webpage, just go with anyone of the million and one designers, but personally I would start right here at FC , there are several that can design one for you and get you up and running.
I hope I have given you another side of the picture in making your decision, if you need more information or have any questions on some of these techniques I use, you can email me.
Again, welcome to the flower shop world and good luck to you in whatever your decision is.
Regards,
Cyndi
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