800Flowers lowers projections?

[BOSS]

Word on the street this morning...

800 has drastically cut projections on many of their preferred shops. Just confirmed it. Many shops, us included, have been cut by as much as 70%, without explanation. ( We have enjoyed a ranking with them of 97% or better consistently and were regarded as one of their highest rated shops)

The alternative, as many have heard through their current pitch is to upgrade to a premier shop, at significant monthly cost, above and beyond their already high fee structure. Some shops would be " giving " them another 5 to $12,000 annually, for a supposed guarantee and the ability to bypass customer service for our internal needs.

Three shops already called me today, one hysterical crying.
Very sad indeed that it has all come to this.

I have some questions...are they talking about Mothers Week or ongoing sales? Are there still enough silly florists out there willing to pay this much to get more discounted business?

Anyone else getting this type of communication from 800Flowers? If you don't want to publicly post send me a PM.

 

[sfox]

why

What is funny is that florists buy into this idea of preferred shop. 800Flowers plays on a florists own ego by rating shops and using that florists own ego to more extract money.

800Flowers is the grand-daddy of the OG's and yet florists rush to pay them money to get orders that used to be florist orders.

Boss, you should seriously look at paying 800Flowers more money to get to that coveted "Premier shop" status with 800Flowers. If you do they will give you some crumbs and next quarter they will report even highly profits to Wall Street.

I can't see why any florist would even consider filling any order for 800Flowers, at any time, no matter what the amount. By doing business with the Grand-Daddy of the OG's you are ruining the very business you are supposedly trying to build.

Yet, all those florists who are in the know are rushing to hand over their money to the very company who is trying to put them out of business. God, florists are financially saavy bunch.

 

[BOSS]

Boss, you should seriously look at paying 800Flowers more money to get to that coveted "Premier shop" status with 800Flowers.

Naw... I think I'll pass....

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Yet, all those florists who are in the know are rushing to hand over their money to the very company who is trying to put them out of business. God, florists are financially saavy bunch.

It's easier to say, many florists are financially STOOPID!!

 

[cherrie]

Does this surprise you?

800 flowers did this to me five years ago, because I refused to deliver a teddy bear that costs $7.50 for $15.00 total. I quit then.
Lowered my VD rose projection from 70 dz to 20 dz. A week before VD, after I had ordered product.
Look what is happening with roses. They are becoming devalued in the consumers eyes. Being sold way too cheap and lesser quality because the florist can't afford to send out the best quality for the prices they are given. So, the consumer isn't sending red roses anymore.
Note a thread that has been on this forum for a while.

When I quit 800 flowers, I had and 1.5 hour chat on the phone with their product developer from NYC. Not to scare me, I'm originally from New Jersey - I can talk their talk.
I told him that there was no way I could deliver a dz, top quality 70 cm roses for $49.99 total (and 71% of $49.99 to boot). I could deliver 40 cm for that price and asked if that was what they wanted. He proceeded to tell me that all florists were wrong in how they mark up their product and the concept of 20 percent labor was ridiculous. We were all wrong.
I proceeded to tell him that not only was 800 flowers doing an injustice to the consumer - because shops were forced to send lower grade product - but, he was doing an injustice to the floral industry as a whole. He was decreasing the value of floral gift giving. He was making them a cheap commodity, in the consumers eyes.

On this thread, 800 flowers is being called the OG granddaddy.
I call them the Antichrist of the floral industry.

 

[Kristine]

It's easier to say, many florists are financially STOOPID!!

just like the frog in the kettle on the stove. Up goes the heat and they never realize......

 

[CHR]

Cherrie - Your observations are dead on. Smart lady!

I don't know how many times RC has said it here, but florists are essentially buying orders from OGs and the price they've been willing to pay has turned into a game of chicken.

It's climbed from 27% to now 39% (in some cases) with fee after fee piled on top.

The cost of local delivery has gone up 30% or more in the last few years, yet WSs still tell you $5 or $7 discounted bucks is all you'll get. Ask for more and they'll drop your level of incomings.

Apparently, FTD is now telling shops (via Merc) their vases must be "free" to get some of their orders, too.

If you cannot or will not take responsibility for marketing your own company and growing your own local brand and business, the alternative is to go and buy orders from folks who do market well to consumers.

Just heard from a friend who's been a big BloomNet filler for years. They tried the 'you must upgrade to premier' BS (borderline-extortion IMO) and the shop told them to stick it. The margins on those orders were already razor thin, and the increased fees made them a wash or worse.

My guess is that 1-800 will lose the most in that area. They had an outstanding, quality company delivering their products and I don't care how many shop want those orders, many can't come close to handling the volume and delivering timely, beautiful, fresh designs.

This pre-holiday pressure from BloomNet sound like a way to force scared florists into paying even more. And florists have this way of forgetting that the WS are NOT their partners and NOT their friends. The timing of these reduced projections is truly Machiavellian.

They're businesses that will do what ever it takes to generate profits.

You want more orders from them? Then pay up.

 

[theRKF]

Let's think about this:

If a shop gets $100k in incoming in a year and gives up 30% to a WS, that's $30k spent to get orders where you don't own the customer info.

What if $1-2k was invested in building a nice website, $5-10k invested in still & video cameras, website marketing and product development? For less than half of the cost of those WS orders you can do some serious marketing!

But maybe it's just easier to pay a WS to do the marketing work?

Ryan

 

[Jerry]

There is only one problem with your thinking on this Ryan.

95% of florists don't have an extra 10k to put up. They stay with or sign up for the WS for other reasons then to just get orders. They need a banker, they need credit, they need there payments spread out over time. 10k up front hurts, 10k over a year does hurt bottom line, but they don't feel it or don't know it. It's a slow death.

Hopes and prayers is what this industry is all about.

 

[TOTO]

Let's start calling it what it REALLY IS!

These GAMES of SQUEEZE MO MONEY from their FILLER FLORIST FOOLS are nothing more than ADDITIONAL INCOMING ORDER ACQUISITION CHARGES. (aka: extortion fees)

It's become such a PAY TO PLAY SCAM on the florists that, the SKIMMERS honestly believe, they have the ability to SQUEEZE even more money out of them, albeit INCREMENTALLY with CREATIVITY!

The FUN PART, and as SFOX pointed out, is over the fact that, many florists will get duped into thinking they are really able to BUY into a PREMIUM LISTING, thus making them a PREMIUM FLORIST (in their own minds).

As he stated, this plays into DA FLORISTS' EGO rather than their BRAINS, after which, the PREMIUM really comes out of their WALLETS! Not to worry though, since they'll be mailing out a HUGE DOOR WINDOW DECAL which states: 900 PREMIUM FLORIST, unlike any other. That's sure to make those florists proud in knowing that, THEIR EXTRA MONEY IS PAYING OFF BIG TIME. Additional decals are available at only $49.99 plus shipping and handling. Limited supply, so order early!

And so, INCOMING ORDER ACQUISITION CHARGE is what we should be discussing in addition to the DUES, FEES, ORDER DISCOUNTS, and REVERSE the ORDER'S TRANSMISSION CHARGES, not to mention the FREE BEE DELIVERY $ERVICE they also require coupled with their TOO LOW 1980 SRPs

Why would they DOO THIS to their own FILLER FLORISTS?

Because THEY CAN and only because, their own florists LET THEM, OH MY!

 

[theRKF]

There is only one problem with your thinking on this Ryan.

95% of florists don't have an extra 10k to put up. They stay with or sign up for the WS for other reasons then to just get orders. They need a banker, they need credit, they need there payments spread out over time. 10k up front hurts, 10k over a year does hurt bottom line, but they don't feel it or don't know it. It's a slow death.

Hopes and prayers is what this industry is all about.

Jerry,

It's not a problem with the thinking, it's a problem with the reality that most florists, especially start-ups, are under-funded.

Besides, I wasn't talking about dropping $10k at once, I was talking about an annual approach. You can get some basic SEO services for what many shops pay in WS dues. (note: big senders are members to send, therefore are outside of this discussion) You can get a website for the COGS on one month's worth of incoming orders, and still have money left over to dabble in PPC advertising.

Ryan

 

[LJVF]

It's easier to say, many florists are financially STOOPID!!

Then there are thousands of stupid people in the flower business. What does this say about the retail floral industry as a whole?

BTW, I'm a 1800Flowers member but am probably going to cut ties very soon. Does this make me a little less stupid? :dunce

 

[Jerry]

Take the word "probably" out of your sentence, and you will be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Do it smartly though, you will have to address, excess labor, cogs, etc......................................................................................, if you were a big filler for them.

 

[clay]

Then there are thousands of stupid people in the flower business. What does this say about the retail floral industry as a whole?

Yes, I agree....but it is not just the florists. I know a lot of small business owners, in different fields, that are "business savy impaired". I can not say that percentage of "stupid people" in the florist business is really any larger that any other "easy to start' business.... IMO.

 

[LJVF]

Take the word "probably" out of your sentence, and you will be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Probably not the "sharpest" from your perspective, I will still be FTD and Teleflora. My stance on the subject is still formulating as we type (per wire services thread).

 

[MANORVILLE]

Isn't this just a big wake up call.
Almost spit my coffee all over my brand new monitor when I read this.
( Glad it wasn't Absolute, that would have been a crime )

Something is obviously wrong with this picture as right before Mother's day is not a good time to screw with your best shops. Must be something going on behind the scenes that hasn't been made public.

The people I deal with are usually quick to return phone calls and have always been very helpful and informative.
Gotta make a few calls and see if I get some answers to this as we are still one of their shops, but if this is true, and we're gonna lose any ground I will have no choice but to pull the plug.
Very glad this came out now as we have very little time to do any damage control.
By Monday, I'll have two 48' trailers full of flowers and a zillion boxes of containers and vases. If I have to back it down it'll have to be by the end of business today.

Thanks for the heads up on this one.
Will do my best to get some answers back later today.

****On a side note, I wonder if this could have something to do with all the new shops that they've been signing.
That just might be what is happening, and if that is the case I would guess that the poop will hit the fan after MDay

 

[inferno63]

Then there are thousands of stupid people in the flower business. What does this say about the retail floral industry as a whole?

BTW, I'm a 1800Flowers member but am probably going to cut ties very soon. Does this make me a little less stupid? :dunce

I sent a certified letter to cancel my membership with Bloomnet letting them know that I am done as of April 30, 2008. Told them I would not be filling or sending as of that date. I never heard anything from them and I have received 3 orders for May already.....I was curious so I checked. I rejected and turned off the software. I don't know about them, but I am done. They just need to accept the divorce and move onto the next florist. :hammer:

 

[ivygreen]

I sent a certified letter to cancel my membership with Bloomnet letting them know that I am done as of April 30, 2008. Told them I would not be filling or sending as of that date. I never heard anything from them and I have received 3 orders for May already.....I was curious so I checked. I rejected and turned off the software. I don't know about them, but I am done. They just need to accept the divorce and move onto the next florist. :hammer:

Get a hold of your rep, and document time and date of your conversation. Restate your quitting of 1-800, and get confirmation of this. Resend the letter if you have to, but shutting your machine off won't do the trick. You need to avoid another month of membership fees, and the hassle that WILL continue as you leave the wire service. Be sure to get someone in upper levels, and make sure it is confirmed that they have received your resignation from 1-800. Do it today, tomorrow, and as many days as it takes. If you turn the program on and you receive an order, your still in. Due dilligence is key, good luck.

 

[MANORVILLE]

Double Ditto

Get a hold of your rep, and document time and date of your conversation. Restate your quitting of 1-800, and get confirmation of this. Resend the letter if you have to, but shutting your machine off won't do the trick. You need to avoid another month of membership fees, and the hassle that WILL continue as you leave the wire service. Be sure to get someone in upper levels, and make sure it is confirmed that they have received your resignation from 1-800. Do it today, tomorrow, and as many days as it takes. If you turn the program on and you receive an order, your still in. Due dilligence is key, good luck.

The above advice is the only way !
Dotted i's and t's with time stamps detailing the who's , what's and when's !

 

[Chezbloom]

Being in a WS is a membership, and members have the right to quit.
You don't work for them. If you sent a certified letter and have proof, then I believe you quit. They will probably keep sending you membership bills. TF kept sending us bills for 15 months after we quit. For all I know they will start sending them again as they have NEVER acknowledged our quitting in writing. As far as I'm concerned ALL wire service are indeed the enemy of the retail florist. I am curious to know if any Wire services have actually taken a florist to court to get them to pay after the florist has quit and has paid what they believe they owe the WS as of the quitting time. I may have to limit my reading of any WS related stuff on FC as it truely makes me sick what they are doing to our industry.