AAA as Affiliate Partner?

[avenuegardensflorist]

...

......goes back to trying to make us think incremental accting
is in our best interest. B&M's who do not focus on expenses
wouldl never make it w/ the IA philosophy.

 

[Doug Munro]

Nicole,

Although I have not been a member of Teleflora for years you certainly have my sympathy. As a wire service you are dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.

Anyone with even a lick of sense knows that organizations like the one you speak of with their members numbering in the millions should be a natural to market to.They offer the ability to access millions of consumers through one communication channel, even better members of these groups tend to be loyal and support their partners. Naturally this comes with a cost.

I sometime truly believe that most traditional florists have a phobia (as yet unnamed) of actually being successful. One of the symptoms I suspect is an irrational fear that everyone else (particularly wire services) is out to steal your orders and discount them as a way to put you out of business.

If by chance you do sign up AAA with their millions of members, please feel free to send the orders to us, we will be happy to join Teleflora.

 

[theRKF]

Doug,

This might be a bit off topic, so I'll have to ask Nicole's forgiveness for threadjacking, but your theorized phobia intrigued me.

Do you think the phobia may stem from an under-appreciation for marketing and order acquisition costs?

We know that most florists:

• Spend around 3% of their budget on marketing (if they market at all)
• Think that marketing is too expensive
• Cut marketing first when things get tight
• Give up 27-30% to a wire service or sending florist

I'm speaking in very broad terms here, and likely not about most FC members (as they tend to represent the more progressive end of the spectrum), but could that phobia of success is based or driven by a fear of marketing? That it's the big scary thing no one wants to deal with, everyone resents, but must be dealt with?

Do you think that a better understanding of the value, theory and practice of marketing might help florists see the value in opportunities like AAA, wire services (applied with wisdom), websites and such?

 

[dhamil6490]

I appreciate that, Hal - thanks

I'm not lobbying for the wire services, just challenging the widely accepted mindset that every customer should order from a local florist, all the time. This just doesn't mesh with everyone customer's reality. So, if we accept that fact, the question becomes how do we grow business and acquire new clients in this circumstance? Can we afford to be completely independent and ignore clients of this size? Do we wed ourselves to the wire services hoping that big mama will send some nourishment down the pipe? Or are there other options? We're all supposed to be creative people, here, how can we address this?

I'd look forward to an improved relationship with TF, especially one that made orders I receive more profitable. I'll bet the times TF has been approached about this topic is astromonical, but they have yet to do anything positive ion this area. "Save The Florist" they shout, but the fact remains - their costs (membership, qa, marketing, etc) suck out all of the profit. If one more entity takes a piece of the pie, I'll be working at a loss!

 

[Doug Munro]

Doug,

This might be a bit off topic, so I'll have to ask Nicole's forgiveness for threadjacking, but your theorized phobia intrigued me.

Do you think the phobia may stem from an under-appreciation for marketing and order acquisition costs?

We know that most florists:

• Spend around 3% of their budget on marketing (if they market at all)
• Think that marketing is too expensive
• Cut marketing first when things get tight
• Give up 27-30% to a wire service or sending florist

I'm speaking in very broad terms here, and likely not about most FC members (as they tend to represent the more progressive end of the spectrum), but could that phobia of success is based or driven by a fear of marketing? That it's the big scary thing no one wants to deal with, everyone resents, but must be dealt with?

Do you think that a better understanding of the value, theory and practice of marketing might help florists see the value in opportunities like AAA, wire services (applied with wisdom), websites and such?

Ryan,

No if, ands or buts on this one.

The sad reality in our industry is that a large percentage of operators at the retail level view marketing as an expense, rather than as an investment. In many cases even when marketing is undertaken it is considered a failure and halted if it does not generate immediate results.

I always imagine myself as the consumer (funny enough , in my real life I actually am one) when looking at marketing. As a consumer I am under constant bombardment from every direction by retailers hoping to convince me to spend my hard earned money with them. So having said this, what would possess a retailer to think that they will get my attention with the occasional bit of hit and miss marketing or worse yet none at all?

My experience in this industry is that there are two key areas of expertise that most retail flower shop operators lack in order to run their business profitably, marketing and accounting. Its been that way for the last 30 years to my knowledge. Most are more concerned about their level of "design ability". So ask this question....... why do some many great designers fail miserably at operating their own business?

Better yet attend a floral conference, in many cases you could fire a cannon through the marketing and accounting seminars and not hit a soul, yet you can't find a seat at the design competition.

 

[theRKF]

Designers fail as shop owners for the same reasons doctors fail in operating their practice (happens a lot!), great mechanics close their garages, bakers their shops and so on ... I try to attend a lot of small business networking events and conferences, and see it again and again. Very talented people with great services / products that no one knows about because they can't/won't market themselves, and often can't run efficiently enough to get traction.

It's our unofficial motto at Strider that we are looking for interesting businesses who need a partner to help them tell their story.

Marketing is story telling, painting a picture for the customer of how the service / product is going to offer an enriching experience. On the other hand, advertising is dropping a bunch of generic flyers door to door, or printing something on the office ink jet and taping it to the window.

This conversation reminds me of the Florasaurus campaign we ran for the '08 Floral Summit. At one point the museum curator (who looks suspiciously like J Schwanke - but doesn't sound nearly as good) describes how prior to her extinction the Florasaurus engaged in futile stabs at random marketing efforts before retreating into the dark recesses of her shop to hibernate.

 

[CHR]

Not to pull this thread off track further, but this does have to do with TF and marketing to and for florists:

Way back when TF.com was launched, 100% of the order value flowed to florists and IIRC TF kept the service charge. Shoppers were presented with a list of local stores during the check-out process and the buyer could pick a florist if he/she so chose.

It was a far more favorable affiliate marketing relationship for florists than any other WS... and yet the loud complaining on one (formerly) popular florist forum was nearly endless.

Instead of understanding these orders were being paid at 100% (flowers + $5 for local deliver) many shop owners carped about not getting more for delivery, not liking the prices, getting sent orders they didn't have the stuff to make them with - all the same things still being complained about today - except those shops now get the orders for 30% less.

Doug & Ryan both hit the nail on the head.

Too much emotional reaction, not enough business logic.

I do believe the 3% industry marketing benchmark is understated. Florists paid for a lot of marketing through WS memberships for decades and those expenses were often not correctly recognized. With the added expenses of running websites, we're spending more now than ever, just not necessarily getting good ROIs across the boards.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

back on topic....Nicole is "phishing", in a philosophical sense.....in some places, it's called a "trial balloon", and in doing so, has already let the cat out of the bag. We, the real florists, will NOT have a "say" in the decision making when it comes to this "allegiance", and here's my "theory"....
Florists have SUCH "clouded" judgements, when it comes to making SOUND business decisions, that, any tactic used, to "defer" a reaction to a board room spin, gives "some" florists, a sense of belonging, in the process, and it "subsides" the rage and spite!
Listen, I would GLADLY accept the fact that TF wants to strategically place itself BETWEEN massive groups like AAA, and us, the fool follies, that resemble business people, that clamour, for incoming orders, while paying a MASSIVE price to just "receive" those orders!!
AGAIN, I would remind you all, that NO order passes through such a spider web, WITHOUT skimming, NON, ZERO, NADA...the "middlemen/women", have placed the honour of the SAME DAY delivery network at risk, time, and time again, by essentially REDUCING the total "value" of EACH AND EVERY order quite often into the MINUS bracket, when it comes to the fill shops!
As filling shops, we TRULY have NO ISSUES, with HOW and WHEN an organization like TF acquires it order stream, it TRULY is NONE of our business, and I say that in all honesty.
Our "EXPECTATIONS", however, is that ALL incoming orders CARRY their OWN weight, when they arrive at fulfillment centres (read REAL FLORISTS), or, I would suggest, that TF fill their own same day orders, and go head to head with PROFLOWERS, IF TF "thinks" that we'll do it for LESS, than we are remunerated for, and take RESPONSIBILITY for!
Teleflora in in a VERY unique position, and a very tough one as well...it needs to grow, it has a plan, and EVERYONE needs to seamlessly adopt the master plan, IF, the dragons are to be slain....it has TREMENDOUS upside in trust, an enviable position with marketing, and less, and less "competition" from FTD, which, for the record, is kinda neat, for a change!
I TRUST NICOLE, love her wit, am enamored by her credibility attainment, here on FlowerChat, so it stands to reason, that I need to "listen" to what she asks AND says, but, make NO mistake, TF is on a war path, and NEEDS to know, that IF, this companies spends big money to advertise AND acquire a large volume of orders, then, are WE, ready to row to a pounding drum, or do we "revolt" as has precipitated with FTD's ranks, or subjected 1800, to microscopic credibility issues?
IF were to sign on, I WOULD DEMAND territorial rights, I would EXPECT, sufficient volume to exceed my overheads, and I WOULD INSIST, that the devaluation process be remedied BEFORE, NOT AFTER, I commit, and in turn I WOULD FILL every order, would PROMISE to tow the party line, and would GUARANTEE, that BOTH ends of the order trail, are well taken care of without tarnishment, (and AS I wake up from this dream) I realize, the nightmare of "promises" from wire services AND OG's is just that...a "nightmare"....
There is NO BUSINESS ON EARTH, that EXPECTS 20% commissions, plus, Plus,PLUS, and equally expects to survive!!
Nicole, I, like Doug, would happily take these orders, join if you insist, BUT, put it on paper, that I TOO, will MAKE 20%...PERIOD!

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Second Quote of the Day!

Florists paid for a lot of marketing through WS memberships for decades and those expenses were often not correctly recognized.

And today they still are, paying that is, except today they are paying to market the wire service itself.

:spam:

 

[NicoleAtTF]

I'm not arguing with you, Mikey. Generally, our stance is that we can take a temperature reading but do have the responsibility to make decisions (usually) without specific instructions from the shops who partner with us. It's a difficult system for us, as you said, because we're beholden to the shops (you ARE our primary customers), but we get such a spread of opinion that we often have to act as though we didn't receive any feedback because 1) we can't make everyone happy and 2) we do have to think of our own ability to be a profitable entity.

However, I will say that in this particular case, we're not sure that it's worth approaching AAA. If they've already partnered with FTD and florists are not seeing sufficient orders incoming as a result, we certainly would not approach them. We generally work to make any partnership we enter into a source for enough incoming orders that it's profitable for the network (and therefore profitable for us).

Because florists are our primary customer base, we need YOU to be profitable so that WE can remain in business.

And I have to say, apologies that this is my first chance in a few days to hop back on and see the conversation! It's been fascinating to read. Thank you.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I'm not arguing with you, Mikey. Generally, our stance is that we can take a temperature reading but do have the responsibility to make decisions (usually) without specific instructions from the shops who partner with us. It's a difficult system for us, as you said, because we're beholden to the shops (you ARE our primary customers), but we get such a spread of opinion that we often have to act as though we didn't receive any feedback because 1) we can't make everyone happy and 2) we do have to think of our own ability to be a profitable entity.
However, I will say that in this particular case, we're not sure that it's worth approaching AAA. If they've already partnered with FTD and florists are not seeing sufficient orders incoming as a result, we certainly would not approach them. We generally work to make any partnership we enter into a source for enough incoming orders that it's profitable for the network (and therefore profitable for us).

Because florists are our primary customer base, we need YOU to be profitable so that WE can remain in business.

And I have to say, apologies that this is my first chance in a few days to hop back on and see the conversation! It's been fascinating to read. Thank you.

YOU, are "fascinating" me, more and more Nicole..my post was NOT intended as an "argument", and though you were in the "crosshairs" I cannot say you were a target, per se....my mouth just runneth off......I AM intrigued tho.....

 

[NicoleAtTF]

my post was NOT intended as an "argument", and though you were in the "crosshairs" I cannot say you were a target, per se....my mouth just runneth off......I AM intrigued tho.....

haha, yeah, I probably worded that wrong. I should have said that I couldn't argue with some of the points you made.

 

[David]

However, I will say that in this particular case, we're not sure that it's worth approaching AAA. If they've already partnered with FTD and florists are not seeing sufficient orders incoming as a result, we certainly would not approach them.

I think the FTD deal is bad for florists. 20 percent discount then add 3 percent for credit card clearing. Any FTD florist out there participating? Most likely it just works for FTD.com Realize it's still better then a wire in. I don't want to give it on cash and carry in store purchases.