about to drop TF, any suggestions?

[Eric S]

we're about to drop teleflora after over a decade of being with them. any suggestions for life after teleflora?

Well this will be a first for me.

Why might I ask are you quiting? Looking for suggestions for life after Teleflora means you needed them for something? Was it the sending? Or was it the filling?

Perhaps the codfied containers? Just curious.

 

[Tom Carlson]

Be Carefull!!!!!!!!!!

For every $1,000 in wires in that you will not be getting, make sure you drop your payroll by $200 to $250, IMMEDIATELY.

If you want to hear my story, call me at 608-755-7700.

Tom Carlson

 

[TOTO]

Their numbers are dropping..................

I really don't see the demise of the WS anytime soon. They have aggressively adapted to the ever changing times. The directories look as thick as ever full of willing filling florists.

As long as the internet is the biggest directory for consumers to find a place to order flowers, the WS and OG will continue to reap rewards. Look at the first page for keywords "Florist", "Flowers", "Flower Shop", etc... There a no mom and pop shops to be seen. If anything wire services have grown with the internet and there will always be a florist willing to take the orders from them.

TOTO, your continued promotion of the IFA on these boards did get my attention. I did sign up and am hoping to add to the success and growth of it. I also hope that I am wrong and you are right.

It's been suggested that, they are loosing close to 500 member florists per month now.

As to the WS directories, that's long been a farce since, most members don't even look in those books anyway. That information has long since been available on a data disk which made those directories MOOT.

All they are, or ever have been, since the advent of a POS system or a PC, is just another passive stream of revenue to the WSs and a WASTE OF MONEY for their member florists. As to why they may stay thick? Well, as far as any of us know, it could've been a bigger font size, or an aggressive selling effort to persuade other member florists to take out more of those ALSO-SERVED-BY listings in other member towns at $10 per pop to further dilute and pollute the own members in those towns, thus further reducing the total incoming order volume for EVERYONE! What a FEEDING FRENZY, ey?

All is can say is that, we threw them away when they were delivered, finding them to be a total waste of effort. One day, and before I threw it into our dumpster, I put in on a scale and it weighed a WHOPPING 10 POUNDS. Talk about starting a SAVE A TREE program?

Might as well add those ad dollars to the incoming order acquisition costs as well then because they are surely wasted on a non existent audience.

As to why any florist chooses to finally make a business decision and QUIT, that's based on the reality of their investment versus lack of any returns, or more likely, continued LOSSES.

Just like holding a stock that pays no dividends while watching the price go downhill like Bear Sterns, only to finally realize that, the $170 per share back in August has now fallen to $2 but is forced up to $10. For some, that might be a win, since they only lost $160 per share so far, and in fact, they may continue to HOLD THAT STOCK and despite the market reality.

After all, WHO KNOWS? It might go back up to $170 per share and most probably, SPLIT shortly therafter.:rofl:

As General Honore put it best: Don't get STUCK ON STUPID!

Or, Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe. -–Albert Einstein.

At least with IFA, and at only $20 month to enable me to transfer my orders, the cost is a steal. Add to that the fact that, IFA does NOT COMPETE with their own members for their customer's 100% sales, and in my ledger, that's good enough FORE MEE!

 

[LJVF]

It's been suggested that, they are loosing close to 500 member florists per month now.

For the month of March 2008, there are 109 no longer FTD, but 155 NEW members.

As to the WS directories, that's long been a farce since, most members don't even look in those books anyway. That information has long since been available on a data disk which made those directories MOOT.

All they are, or ever have been, since the advent of a POS system or a PC, is just another passive stream of revenue to the WSs and a WASTE OF MONEY for their member florists. As to why they may stay thick? Well, as far as any of us know, it could've been a bigger font size, or an aggressive selling effort to persuade other member florists to take out more of those ALSO-SERVED-BY listings in other member towns at $10 per pop to further dilute and pollute the own members in those towns, thus further reducing the total incoming order volume for EVERYONE! What a FEEDING FRENZY, ey?

All is can say is that, we threw them away when they were delivered, finding them to be a total waste of effort. One day, and before I threw it into our dumpster, I put in on a scale and it weighed a WHOPPING 10 POUNDS. Talk about starting a SAVE A TREE program?

Might as well add those ad dollars to the incoming order acquisition costs as well then because they are surely wasted on a non existent audience.

TOTO, I think you missed my point about the directories. I just used them as an example of the massive amount of members there are.

As to why any florist chooses to finally make a business decision and QUIT, that's based on the reality of their investment versus lack of any returns, or more likely, continued LOSSES.

Just like holding a stock that pays no dividends while watching the price go downhill like Bear Sterns, only to finally realize that, the $170 per share back in August has now fallen to $2 but is forced up to $10. For some, that might be a win, since they only lost $160 per share so far, and in fact, they may continue to HOLD THAT STOCK and despite the market reality.

After all, WHO KNOWS? It might go back up to $170 per share and most probably, SPLIT shortly therafter.:rofl:

As General Honore put it best: Don't get STUCK ON STUPID!

Or, Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe. -–Albert Einstein.

At least with IFA, and at only $20 month to enable me to transfer my orders, the cost is a steal. Add to that the fact that, IFA does NOT COMPETE with their own members for their customer's 100% sales, and in my ledger, that's good enough FORE MEE!

Well so far my ROI on IFA has been $0.00. Let's hope that will change.

 

[LJVF]

Petalsandbean, my apologies for the thread hijack.

 

[TOTO]

Ah, you're missing the point then!

For the month of March 2008, there are 109 no longer FTD, but 155 NEW members.
TOTO, I think you missed my point about the directories. I just used them as an example of the massive amount of members there are.
Well so far my ROI on IFA has been $0.00. Let's hope that will change.

As the old Holiday adage goes: "It's much better to GIVE than to RECEIVE!

We have posted the NUMBERS on this issue numerous times and they continually show that, ALL THE PROFITS in the WIRE SERVICE GAME are made on the OUTBOUND SIDE, not the filler side.

Which is why, DA SKIMMERS, DA OGs, DA DOGs, DA NON-LOCAL PHONIES, and now, even DA WSs are into the game.

If your only reason to join IFA was to get more incoming orders, that would be a mistake. The REASON to join IFA is to enable YOU to provide a $ERVICE to your customers by sending their out-of-town orders through a REAL FLORIST ORDER TRANSFER NETWORK to insure a quality product delivered at the other end, while you earn your sending commission at 20% plus your $ervice charge for $ERVICING YOUR CUSTOMERS.

While I'm always happy to fill an order from another REAL FLORIST at net to me of 80% in my bank account within 48 hours, that side of the spectrum is an accommodation, NOT AN OBJECTIVE!

Let's say I send out 20 orders averaging $75 each for a total of $1,500.00.

On those, I earn a 20% commission of $300 and another $260 in $ervice charges for a total profit of $560.00 less my $20 per month IFA membership dues, thus netting me $540.

On the flip side, I fill $1,500.00 worth of incoming from a wire service.

Less 20% sending florist commission nets me $1,200 less another $25 for the Free Order Transmission nets me $1,175, less another 7% clearing house fee nets me $1070. My monthly membership fee was $300 and so, I'm now down to $770 net payment to me.

The COGS (cost of goods) at 30% on that GROSS were $450, the COL (cost of labor) at 25% was $375, and the COL (cost of delivery) at 10% was $150.

My total costs on the inbound side totals to $975.00.

And my FINAL NET PAYMENT AMOUNT is $770 or a net loss of (-$205) or (-13.67%) per total amount of incoming orders filled.

Let MEE SEE HEAR ANDY?

I send out $1,500.00 worth of orders through IFA and make a $540.00 profit.

I fill $1,500.00 worth of orders through a WS and LOOSE ($205.00).

GEE WIZ, the choice is really hard, wouldn't you say?

OOPS! Almost forgot the rebate, EY?

Well, some would say that, IT'S ALL OK, because we got a $4 per order rebate when we sent our orders out through our WS.

My question would have to be: Where do you want to apply that WINDFALL PROFIT THEN?

If you add it to your OUTBOUND SIDE for the 20 orders, you wind up with another $80.00 to offset your monthly membership fees of $300, thus they only cost you $220.00 per month.

Since the cost of membership to you has dropped by $80, (cost shifting) the net losses you incurred on the filling side, only amount to (-$125.00) or only (-8.34%) per order.

And so, for those of you who join a WS or even IFA because YOU WANT MORE HIGHLY DISCOUNTED INCOMING ORDERS, be very careful for what you wish for since, you might just get it. That's not to say that, just because YOU WISH FOR IT, you'll LIKE WHAT YOU GET in the end.

In closing, and a question which I've posed over and over again:

Can ANYONE please show me anything different other than, what I've pointed out, over and over again, regarding WHAT THE REALITY REALLY IS, on THE SENDING SIDE, versus THE FILLING SIDE, of the floral order transfer system as it pertains to WHERE ALL THE PROFITS ARE MADE as it pertains to WHERE ALL THE LOOSES ARE INCURRED?

And, please don't tell me that, you make a little something on the inbound side, which is why, you get suckered into still DOO-ING IT!

That's called COST SHIFTING and that's when THEIR COSTS (your losses) gets shifted over to YOUR PROFITS, thus eating more of your profits away.

Then again, this is what all of DA SKIMMERS COUNT ON!

The same could be said for our HEALTH CARE INSURANCE problem.

Those that can pay DOO, and those that can't pay DON'T! For those that CAN'T PAY, their costs just get shifted over to those that CAN PAY, which results in HIGHER HOSPITAL COST, HIGHER TAXES in the form of MEDICAID and MEDICARE, and HIGHER INSURANCE PREMIUMS from our HEALTH CARE INSURANCE CARRIERS.

Don't even get me started on the Government's FAILED Ethanol Alternative Fuel mandates and what it's really costing wee taxpayers, not to mention the current World Food Shortage Crisis which is just starting to manifest itself.

In closing, the loss of 109 members coupled with an offset of 155 new members is questionable, since that's not what I hear. Regardless, how many of the 155 new members are REAL FLORISTS versus STUPERMARKETS, ey? And then, even if they are florists, how many of the NEWBIES were duped into signing onto their 3 month FREE MEMBERSHIP marketing offers, only to arrive at the reality of losses they face at the end of that 90 day highway?

Hey, this is not a critique of YOU and what you feel is right FORE YOU! It's just my usual observation of WHAT THEY USED TO BE versus WHAT THEY'VE TURNED OUT TO BE!

 

[LJVF]

TOTO,

Again you are missing my point, I am not arguing the advantages and disadvantages of wire services. It's my opinion that they are not going anywhere for a long time.

What's with the bold lettering? It feels like your shouting all the time.

 

[TOTO]

Call it my SIGNATURE!

TOTO,

Again you are missing my point, I am not arguing the advantages and disadvantages of wire services. It's my opinion that they are not going anywhere for a long time.

What's with the bold lettering? It feels like your shouting all the time.

Long ago, and before the Internet, (1988) and back in the day of FAXS, I also CAPPED important parts of my messages.

In those GOLDEN OLDIE DAYS, those faxes were sent to the old FTDA Board Members, Officers, and some trusted Staff.

Just can't teach this OLD TOTO DOG new TRICKS!

As to the WSs and if, or when, they are GOING or NOT GOING OUT of business, it's really not a matter that I care about or allow to effect my business strategy. What I can asure you is that, they will not be anything like what they are now, or what they were in our past. They have no other choice but to try and reinvent themselves AGAIN, just like they have had to do in the past, and suffer the consequences of their actions, with or without their current membership numbers.

My business objective is to separate myself, A REAL FLORIST, from their WRINGERS by educating DA PUBLIC into understanding the differences between DA MIDDLEMEN versus A REAL FLORIST.

In addition, and like BLOOMZ pointed out, we spend a great deal of time in fine tuning our KEYWORDS and working the search engines to insure that, when a consumer does a search for FLORIST 10530 or FLOWERS 10530, they will find us first, rather than any of the NON-LOCAL PHONIES and PAY to PLAY SKIMMER MIDDLEMEN.

We have also shared, in other posts, what we've learned, regarding the HOW TOs, in order to help other florists achieve the same goals.

It's nothing you have to pay anyone else to do for you. All it requires is YOUR OWN TIME to LEARN and then, IMPLEMENT on your own.

I can't begin to tell you of, just how many callers tell us that, they found us on the Internet and since they've gotten burned in the past by the MIDDLEMEN, they too, took the time to seek out and find a REAL FLORIST who could DOO THEIR DOO!

Suffice it to say that, DA SKIMMERS customer retention rates are DISMAL and DA CONSUMERS are getting WEB SAVVY real quick now. Having gotten burned by a MIDDLEMAN once, they ain't gonna allow that to happen to them, EVER AGAIN!

I really don't care about the WSs any longer as they are a NON ENTITY in our world now. My posts on them have no other objective, other than to point out the reality that, THEY HAVE BECOME A NON ENTITY for business savvy florists and are no longer THE BE ALL, END ALL, that they used to be back in the 1980s and up an until 1994 as far as being any REAL FLORIST'S business partner.

It is up to each florist to run their own numbers and either justify their WS business partnership, or force them to eliminate it, and based purely on their WS partner's ability to generate a PROFIT, OR NOT!

The days of their EVERYDAY and HOLIDAY KEEPSAKE CONTAINERS, as even COLLECTIBLES, i.e., CHACHKA, are over, so that's no reason to keep them as a partner. That's especially true when a member has to pay over $130 for a tie in ad which generates SQUAT in consumer 100% sales, and the only few orders the florist gets for them, is from that WSs website at a loss of (13.7%) per order.

They are what they've become, a ZERO on a Florist's 100% CONSUMER SALES SCALE!

As I indicated in an earlier post, the only question any florist must ask themselves is: When was it that, I can remember, when a NEW CUSTOMER either called or came into my shop and produced a 100% SALE FORE MEE, which I can directly attribute to my being a member of that WS?

Sadly, I haven't heard a PEEP from any florist on FC who could say that, their WS helped them capture a NEW CUSTOMER'S 100% SALE because of a WS keepsake they had in stock, or because that new customer saw an ad from that WS which drove them into that member's shop.

GAME, SET, and MATCH, as some would say, EY?

 

[marigold]

For every $1,000 in wires in that you will not be getting, make sure you drop your payroll by $200 to $250, IMMEDIATELY.

If you want to hear my story, call me at 608-755-7700.

Tom Carlson

And yet another reason to make this good business decision! Payroll to keep people busy loosing money for you by designing for teleflora or ftd! Did you really open your
flower shop just to be a mini factory? Keep the employees, but
be a smart business person and figure out how to bring more local business to you!
Make your shop the one people seek out...for being innovative.

 

[LJVF]

In addition, and like BLOOMZ pointed out, we spend a great deal of time in fine tuning our KEYWORDS and working the search engines to insure that, when a consumer does a search for FLORIST 10530 or FLOWERS 10530, they will find us first, rather than any of the NON-LOCAL PHONIES and PAY to PLAY SKIMMER MIDDLEMEN.

I agree with this. The organic search results for local keywords for a local flower shop and directories are the only hope to compete with the big dogs in the Google world.

 

[bloomz]

Sadly, I haven't heard a PEEP from any florist on FC who could say that, their WS helped them capture a NEW CUSTOMER'S 100% SALE because of a WS keepsake they had in stock, or because that new customer saw an ad from that WS which drove them into that member's shop.

GAME, SET, and MATCH, as some would say, EY?

Toto my friend - as much as I hate to rain on your parade.


PEEP


I get new customers every holiday.

They advertise them very well, so I advertise them, people look for them, people want them, people buy them, from me.

As long as they continue to sell well marketed junk I will be glad to continue to promote it to the suc, er I mean people who want to buy it.

solly.....

PS I love you.

 

[Tom Carlson]

Not sure what you are saying, Marigold

And yet another reason to make this good business decision! Payroll to keep people busy loosing money for you by designing for teleflora or ftd! Did you really open your
flower shop just to be a mini factory? Keep the employees, but
be a smart business person and figure out how to bring more local business to you!
Make your shop the one people seek out...for being innovative.

If a shop drops a WS and does not immediately reduce payroll, there will be no immediate benefit.

If a shop adds a WS anc does not add payroll, they can make money on wires in.

Final comment, we are either close to being in a recession or already in one. For the first 14 days of April cut flower sales are up over 20% from last year and last year includes Easter. Plant sales are obviously down, no Lilies to sell this month. Our local business is growing daily. No, I am not a new shop, we are in our family's 81st year. my 55 adult years.

 

[bloomz]

If a shop drops a WS and does not immediately reduce payroll, there will be no immediate benefit.

If a shop adds a WS anc does not add payroll, they can make money on wires in.

.

Sage words there - you can take those to the bank.

 

[TOTO]

No Longer part of THEIR PARADE JB!

Toto my friend - as much as I hate to rain on your parade.PEEPI get new customers every holiday. They advertise them very well, so I advertise them, people look for them, people want them, people buy them, from me. As long as they continue to sell well marketed junk I will be glad to continue to promote it to the suc, er I mean people who want to buy it.solly.....PS I love you.

I LOVE YOU TOO JB!

However, unless I'm missing something, and PLEASE CLUE ME IN! Just where do they advertise their CHACHKA other than, in those FLORIST TIE-IN ADS at $130.00 per pop or the marketing for their own DOT.CON websites?

Might be OK for you since, all you do is to CAPTURE THOSE WS CHACHKA SALES and subcontract them out to another REAL FILLER FLORIST, which is NO SKIN OFF YOUR TEETH, but for DA FILLER, it's an effort in futility.

How often have I heard from DA FILLER FLORISTS that, they stocked 12 or 24 of the WSs Holiday Branded, only sold a few, and had to give the rest of their UNCOLLECTIBLE JUNK AWAY or throw them back down in their basements?

Having BEEN THERE, DID THAT, I know of WHAT I SPEAK! lol

 

[Hollywood]

And yet another reason to make this good business decision! Payroll to keep people busy loosing money for you by designing for teleflora or ftd! Did you really open your
flower shop just to be a mini factory? Keep the employees, but
be a smart business person and figure out how to bring more local business to you!
Make your shop the one people seek out...for being innovative.

To Marigold,
Your words are golden here in our shop, Mari.......GOLD.
Glad to know you are there.
Warm regards........Hollywood:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Bruce Hatcher]

Dropping Wire Service

One thing I would suggest is that you send a number of orders before you quit so you owe them money instead of them owing you. If they owe you $'s you MAY never see it!

 

[floraldesignson99th]

wire services.........who needs them !

localflowershop.com or locateaflowershop.com

either do it yourself and charge a small transmission fee or give the customer the sites...........they appreciate it !

be sure to log in and register yourself or spend the $10.00 a month and get top billing in your zips !

 

[floraldesignson99th]

whoops I forgot ilocalflorist.com

 

[Hollywood]

You got that right, Bruce.
Been there, done that.
We owe some to TF , they will be paid, but they will have to wait, like we waited for their never coming orders.:bootyshak:bootyshak:buttwiggl
We understand and everybody should understand that we are in the boonies (sticks), not surrounded by a few million people.
So our main clientele is local.
Hard working people, with blood, sweat and mud on their boots.
Our kind of people.
The rich realtors were always cheap, but now they must have evaporated.
Good riddins.(not sure of the spelling) (don't use too often, just say "Get out") (did not learn it at school in France) (could check with my old friend WeBBy, A.K.A. Websters, but don't want to).
Pretty sure you got the idea, florists are some of the fastest thinking and acting people I know.
We love our group of customers and they love us and that is perfectly fine for all of us.lollollollollollollol
Happy day now....................hollywood :jester

 

[eastcoastrose]

I have been running the numbers on wire service payoff as well and am coming up short. How much do you value the benefit of fresh flower turnover and marketing to those customers? Kim