Change of Wire Service Commission Structure

[cherrie]

Is it possible?
Could a wire service give the receiving florist 81-83%, the sending 10%, and the rest for clearinghouse.

Opinions welcomed

 

[Joe Mioux]

I would rather see the wire services start competing against each otherj rather than working in lock step.

Instead of adding more and more fees to the florists' membership, the WS's ought to be lowering their costs. How about 20 pct to the sending florist, 2 pct to them, and a flat $59 per month memberfee including order transmission services, i.e. Dove/Mercury?

Imagine florists dropping one WS and moving to the lowest cost/largest florist network provider.

The problem is the WS's have an Oligopoly and they know it. Anyone up for a good old fashioned Anti-trust law suit?

 

[lori042499]

Is it possible?
Could a wire service give the receiving florist 81-83%, the sending 10%, and the rest for clearinghouse.

Opinions welcomed

Yes this could be done, but they would lose the OG's because they would not be raking in the money they are used to. Which then would lead to the major area fillers for those OG's to possible cancel membership because now they are not making enough volume to keep the 3 services that they have. Then it would make others want the membership fees drop because there are too little members to get the orders out to certain places. For the rest of us,(by us I mean florists not looking to foill a ton or send a ton) it would work. It would definately thin out the herd of OG's and even out playing field.

 

[sfox]

Food for thought

Is it possible?
Could a wire service give the receiving florist 81-83%, the sending 10%, and the rest for clearinghouse?

Opinions welcomed

Just for the sake of argument, why change anything? Getting a customer into your store is an expensive deal. It costs money to get a new customer and it costs money to keep a customer.

Why should the filling florists be entitled to more now when the costs to get a customer has been growing?

And if filling for the present commission structure is hurting your business, why belong to a wire service in the first place?

I'm not trying to be mean or to start a war. But what I am trying to do is get some thought going on the costs the sender has with getting and keeping people who buy flowers through florists. Remember, FTD 800Flowers, Proflowers and others are direct shipping and non floral retailers are all looking to get those potential consumers away from florists.

 

[Connie]

I'm trying to start a war. The wire services should PAY US a monthly fee for the privilege of getting their orders filled.

 

[BOSS]

BOSS's Second Quote of the day!!

I'm trying to start a war. The wire services should PAY US a monthly fee for the privilege of getting their orders filled.

Hear Hear!
You go girl!!!

 

[oaf]

war of words!!!

Just for the sake of argument, why change anything? Getting a customer into your store is an expensive deal. It costs money to get a new customer and it costs money to keep a customer.

Why should the filling florists be entitled to more now when the costs to get a customer has been growing?

And if filling for the present commission structure is hurting your business, why belong to a wire service in the first place?

I'm not trying to be mean or to start a war. But what I am trying to do is get some thought going on the costs the sender has with getting and keeping people who buy flowers through florists. Remember, FTD 800Flowers, Proflowers and others are direct shipping and non floral retailers are all looking to get those potential consumers away from florists.

I WOULD GLADLY ACCEPT 10% FOR TAKING SOMEONES ORDER,THE EXECUTING FLORIST HAS BEEN SQUEEZED AND THEN RE-SQUEEZED,AFTER ALL IF THE RECIPIENT AIN'T HAPPY WE ALL LOSE OUT....THE REASON IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT SO MANY ORDER GATHERERS AND WIRE SERVICES/RELAY ALIKE HAVE MOVED INTO OUR AREAS,.... IS .BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WE THE FLORIST HAVE LET EM, BY CONSTANTLY DILUTING DOWN THE MONIES GIVEN TO THE EXECUTING FLORIST,IF THERE WAS THE VALUE THERE FOR THE EXECUTING FLORIST, THE FINISHED ARTICLE WOULD DAZZZZZZLE THE DIRECT SHIP OFFERING OFF THE PLANET,INSTEAD WE MAKE DO WITH OURS IS OBVIOUSLY BETTER (which it is, but,....think what the offering could have been!!!!) ..AS FOR WHAT THE WIRE SEVICE GETS, MONTHLY FEES SHOULD JUST COVER CLEARING HOUSE COSTS, NO HIDDEN EXTRAS, SO LETS HAVE THESE FEES LOWERED, AFTER ALL THEY SEEM TO BE IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO EVERY INDEPENDENT OR AFFILIATED FLORIST WITH THER DIRECT SHIP POLICY.

 

[sfox]

Why?

I'm trying to start a war. The wire services should PAY US a monthly fee for the privilege of getting their orders filled.

They do pay you. And if you are so adamant about the payment structure, why do you pay them dues each month now? It seems by your comment that you feel they are cheating you. And if that is true and you don't like what the wire service is doing, why belong in the first place?

Just questions. It seems everyone wants incoming orders, and that they are willing to pay fees in order to get them, but they feel that the business that are sending them those orders don't deserve to be compensated for doing so.

 

[antherian]

"Wire Service"
To whom is it a service? For what purpose was it originally established?
Is it currently a service to the customer? Some would say "no" due to poor fulfillment and value on the filling/receiving side. Others would say "yes" on the order placement side.
Is it a service that benefits the industry? The answer used to be yes. But is it still? Maybe on the order gathering side? but regarding the image of the industry as a whole, it is not providing the "service" it once did. It now only services "wallstreet, and share holders".
The RF is becoming less important to the WS involved in OG.
One only needs to follow the quartery reports to see that revenues from the florist segment are decreasing and the consumer direct segment revenues are increasing, and dividends are to shareholders are high. Do you wonder why it seems at times that customer service from the WS to the RF is decreasing? They see us as a dying revenue source.
The OG issue was not concieved at the time of WS development, but came years after. Yet the WS industry has not evolved to keep the original objectives in focus. We "sold" our soul to wall street.
The topside of the equation now benefits with a net margin (Senders, and Clearinghouse) and the bottomside now loses (Fillers and Consumers). This inbalance hurts the industry.
It's left us vulnerable to outside predators (OG). We left an opening in our wagon circle and the heart of our organization has been attacked from outside.
We can give up the fight, by not being vocal, by fearfully fulfilling the dictates of the WS and by continuing to fill the orders that they send our way or...
We can circle our wagons again, gather our strength in numbers, and create positive solutions that will again provide the desired value to the consumer.
We must become vocal to our regional WS reps and National VPs. We must refuse to fill orders from OG when they are below our minimums. We must set higher local prices on the codified specials. We can develop and build our own Web Presence. We must continue to Network with each other to give support, suggestions and advice.

 

[sfox]

Another Issue

"Wire Service"
To whom is it a service? For what purpose was it originally established?
Is it currently a service to the customer? Some would say "no" due to poor fulfillment and value on the filling/receiving side. Others would say "yes" on the order placement side.
Is it a service that benefits the industry? The answer used to be yes. But is it still? Maybe on the order gathering side? but regarding the image of the industry as a whole, it is not providing the "service" it once did. It now only services "wallstreet, and share holders".
The RF is becoming less important to the WS involved in OG.
One only needs to follow the quartery reports to see that revenues from the florist segment are decreasing and the consumer direct segment revenues are increasing, and dividends are to shareholders are high. Do you wonder why it seems at times that customer service from the WS to the RF is decreasing? They see us as a dying revenue source.
The OG issue was not concieved at the time of WS development, but came years after. Yet the WS industry has not evolved to keep the original objectives in focus. We "sold" our soul to wall street.
The topside of the equation now benefits with a net margin (Senders, and Clearinghouse) and the bottomside now loses (Fillers and Consumers). This inbalance hurts the industry.
It's left us vulnerable to outside predators (OG). We left an opening in our wagon circle and the heart of our organization has been attacked from outside.
We can give up the fight, by not being vocal, by fearfully fulfilling the dictates of the WS and by continuing to fill the orders that they send our way or...
We can circle our wagons again, gather our strength in numbers, and create positive solutions that will again provide the desired value to the consumer.
We must become vocal to our regional WS reps and National VPs. We must refuse to fill orders from OG when they are below our minimums. We must set higher local prices on the codified specials. We can develop and build our own Web Presence. We must continue to Network with each other to give support, suggestions and advice.

You bring up a whole other issue. that is ordergatherers. I agree about NOT filling orders for the OG's. But the orginal post talked about changing the payment structure for all, florists included. To me, it costs a florist a lot of money to get a customer and keep them. They should be compensated. Now OG's, I could care less. To me the solution is not to fill for any OG, plain and simple, not just when the order is" below our minimums!"

 

[antherian]

You bring up a whole other issue. that is ordergatherers. I agree about NOT filling orders for the OG's. But the orginal post talked about changing the payment structure for all, florists included. To me, it costs a florist a lot of money to get a customer and keep them. They should be compensated. Now OG's, I could care less. To me the solution is not to fill for any OG, plain and simple, not just when the order is" below our minimums!"

The current commission structure feeds the OG. By changing the payment structure for all, we eliminate the incentive for OG and put the emphasis back to the customer satisfaction in order fulfillment. This is the best way to "Keep" a customer. The more satisfied they are with the WS experience, the more they will patronize our establishment vs calling an 800 number.
WS can't survive without the RF. OG can't survive w/o the RF. Yet they both have us on a short lease. We should have them on a leash!
I agree with prior posts about a flat monthly clearinghouse fee. I also feel that the sending percentage should be decreased and shifted more to the filling shop. It's true that WOuts are one of the most profitable items in my shop, but I'd rather give up some of that to make WIns more profitable and most importantly to give better "value" to the consumer.

 

[Bigted]

Sorry, but this thread is at best a pipedream. The WS need orders to keep the system going. They are not going to take actions that will reduce the flow of orders. It just isn't going to happen.

Let's say Teleflora changed to a 90/10 split tomorrow. For the first week the fillers would be happy as clams. The next week the people bringing in the orders (OGs) would start sending all of their orders through FTD. Then the Teleflora fillers would get a drastically reduced number of orders. This would make them very sad, so they would switch to FTD also.

None of the established wire services would be the first to do this.

 

[antherian]

Sorry, but this thread is at best a pipedream. The WS need orders to keep the system going. They are not going to take actions that will reduce the flow of orders. It just isn't going to happen.

Let's say Teleflora changed to a 90/10 split tomorrow. For the first week the fillers would be happy as clams. The next week the people bringing in the orders (OGs) would start sending all of their orders through FTD. Then the Teleflora fillers would get a drastically reduced number of orders. This would make them very sad, so they would switch to FTD also.

None of the established wire services would be the first to do this.

True that the WS need orders to keep the system going. That they will not be quick to change.....Remember they have us on a short leash.
The problem is most shops think that we need WS (as currently defined) to keep the system going.
Do we?

 

[lori042499]

They do pay you. And if you are so adamant about the payment structure, why do you pay them dues each month now? It seems by your comment that you feel they are cheating you. And if that is true and you don't like what the wire service is doing, why belong in the first place?

Just questions. It seems everyone wants incoming orders, and that they are willing to pay fees in order to get them, but they feel that the business that are sending them those orders don't deserve to be compensated for doing so.

Just because you pay the fees and belong to something does not mean that you are completely happy with its structure. As of right now, for most florists the WS fills a few needs. #1 good way to send and recieve with a moderator so as to not be screwed by another florist with questionable integrity #2 for most a website which is maintained for the florist who may not have the time or knowhow to DIY. #3 Credit for sending orders without having a platinum visa for this purpose #4 ability to provide pos sysytems on said credit if unable to get it elsewhere.

#1 is still the biggie with most I would say. There is no other way to send and recieve as efficient and safe as a WS. The whole Idea of getting incoming is that if you don't have enough out going to pay for the service you need tons of incoming to pay for it. Without one or the other or both it don't work.....

 

[antherian]

Just because you pay the fees and belong to something does not mean that you are completely happy with its structure. As of right now, for most florists the WS fills a few needs. #1 good way to send and recieve with a moderator so as to not be screwed by another florist with questionable integrity #2 for most a website which is maintained for the florist who may not have the time or knowhow to DIY. #3 Credit for sending orders without having a platinum visa for this purpose #4 ability to provide pos sysytems on said credit if unable to get it elsewhere.

#1 is still the biggie with most I would say. There is no other way to send and recieve as efficient and safe as a WS. The whole Idea of getting incoming is that if you don't have enough out going to pay for the service you need tons of incoming to pay for it. Without one or the other or both it don't work.....

It's too bad that we have to worry about questionable integrity within our industry (maybe this is the true problem to be addressed). Without trust, integrity and honor, no system will work. Is this where the current system fails?
The customer trusts us and we trust who? Another member who has passed some nebulous "quality assurance" program? Our "service" offering to the customer then becomes no better that their own "shoot in the dark" efforts via the internet.

 

[Chezbloom]

I agree. We don't need no stinkin Wire services.
This is sort of off topic but......I am putting up a shopping cart on our website this week (we want it up by Jan 1)
How many of you noticed a big difference in sales after getting a shopping cart on your independent website? Now that our site is getting better ranking on Google and other Search engines, I wonder how many sales we are loosing by not having e-commerce. In short, I think this will help kill OG's as well.

 

[theRKF]

Gotta agree with the Fox, here.

If getting orders is so easy and affordable that it's only worth 10% of the order, why aren't most florists doing that - getting customers - instead of hiring a WS to do it for you?

Or if, as most florists quickly figure out, getting a customer involves a lot of time, money and creativity, shouldn't the company doing all that work be properly compensated?

At last check FTD's customer acquisition cost was around $20-25 a person. How many florists here have really figured out what it costs them to acquire a new customer?

Ryan

 

[Jerry]

Very well put

It's too bad that we have to worry about questionable integrity within our industry (maybe this is the true problem to be addressed). Without trust, integrity and honor, no system will work. Is this where the current system fails?
The customer trusts us and we trust who? Another member who has passed some nebulous "quality assurance" program? Our "service" offering to the customer then becomes no better that their own "shoot in the dark" efforts via the internet.

I feel you have hit that nail on the head. This could be the next wave or is already, why florists and consumers don't feel confident in the broken down old system.

It's exactly why I don't send anymore outgoing, I don't want to be in the middle of a train wreck, with my name on it.

 

[Connie]

They do pay you. And if you are so adamant about the payment structure, why do you pay them dues each month now? It seems by your comment that you feel they are cheating you. And if that is true and you don't like what the wire service is doing, why belong in the first place?

Just questions. It seems everyone wants incoming orders, and that they are willing to pay fees in order to get them, but they feel that the business that are sending them those orders don't deserve to be compensated for doing so.

Well, Fox, you got me there! After being WS free for about 2 years, I rejoined TF. I began to believe that $$ could be made on incoming wire orders, that having those incomings would decrease our shrink (waste), and other things being told to me. In the 3 months that we have been members, we have received 1, ONE, wire-in. Since this membership was one of those freebies for a few months, we're going to be WS free again very soon.

Cheating??? The WSs do take advantage of many FWOAC, IMHO, but that's another topic.

And there are some highly respected folks on this forum who do make money, etc. on their wire-ins. We just cannot in our small community.

 

[lori042499]

Gotta agree with the Fox, here.

If getting orders is so easy and affordable that it's only worth 10% of the order, why aren't most florists doing that - getting customers - instead of hiring a WS to do it for you?

Or if, as most florists quickly figure out, getting a customer involves a lot of time, money and creativity, shouldn't the company doing all that work be properly compensated?

At last check FTD's customer acquisition cost was around $20-25 a person. How many florists here have really figured out what it costs them to acquire a new customer?

Ryan

Last time I checked the WS's were not supposed to be acquiring customers. The WS are going to spend so much money acquiring customers that florist will have no choice but to leave because we won't have any 100% paying customers. Most of us do the best we can with the money we have to acquire as many customers as we can.

Do you think that FTD and TF need all the extra 20% of the cash they take ontop of membership, wire fees, book fees, ad fees, web fees to acquire these customers? What will they do with all these customers if there are no more florists to fill orders? (I know that will never happen, and I know I am part of the problem)