CHEEPCHEEPCHEEP!! What would you do?

[anytimeflowers]

A woman came in today wanting to discuss centerpieces for 70 tables.....January 29,2011
Okay....great! Me -What's it for?

Her -Father-Daughter dance.

Me -Theme?

Her -Nope, but maybe black and pink. Want 20 of them to be really tall, maybe on those tower vases, something at the bottom and then a tray of some sort on the top. It doesn't have to be much, maybe a couple really big leaves on the top and a few flowers. The others can be shorter.

Me-Well, with that many tables, I would recommend staggering the height, probably three different ones, otherwise it has no interest, just a never-ending sea of blah.

Her -Oh yes, definately, last year they were all short and it looked terrible!

Me - Okay, I can get started on some ideas for you, did you have an estimated budget range that you'd like to stay within?

Her - Well I'd like to stay within $300-$400.

Me - For each table or just the large ones?

Her- No....like, $5 per table

 

[Palms]

Give her a quote for what she wants and then give her a quote for the cheapest thing you can do, you never know she may up her budget. If they are holding a party for 70 tables worth of people, they must have some money.

 

[BOSS]

I would not waste my time on this one....

 

[peggy70130]

I wouldn't bother with this one either. Even if she did up her budget, she's got a LONG way to go. It never ceases to chap me that people will spend so much on everything else for an event, but are so cheap about the flowers, if they spend on flowers at all.

 

[RWK]

This one has RED FLAG and BIG COMPLAINT written all over it.

 

[Victoria]

Just say no. Period. Waste no more time after you tell her the base price of what you can do.

V

 

[twiggy]

Palms has the best advise - stay professional, give her the high and low estimates and then let HER say no if she wants to.
Don't take that choice away from her. you really don't know what could happen- she could see what you do, decide to trust you, and justify the extra $$$. but you won't know that if you say no first.

 

[marie g bushnell]

I'm with Palms too. Just give her a price on what she wants and another price on the least expensive. She must be kidding with the $5 price!

 

[lori042499]

She's a crackpot, but give her realistic price quote, don't spend hours on end with the consult, just give her a realistic price quote ranges for centerpieces....now I can deal with many a small budget but that one even gets me...you could barely do a floating gerb for that kind of cash...

We used to do weluv bowls in the 80s for a $5.00 center with 8 pompom mums sprayed with your choice of color, bb and leather leaf..so pretty...but that was when iceberg mums were like 2 bucks a bunch and the were 10 stem standard bunches none of this sold by weight crap...

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Belive it or not- I agree with Palms too.

I think this is a heck of an opportunity to prove just how creative you can be! AND it's a great networking/marketing opportunity.

Rent the eiffle towers...Or even lend them- with them announcing just who did all the flowers ofcourse.

If she wants Pink and Black- give it to her.

On the big Eiffle towers... Take some hot pink sisal, make a loose meatball.
Then get 3 aspidistra painted with black glossy design master (buy the aspidistra on the auction cheap,,, they keep FOREVER!!) And the paint doesn't have to be a think coat...Just a "mostly coat" I imagine the room will be dark so no one will notice anyway.
Poke the aspidistra through the sisal. Viola! She has just what she wants for the "tall" arrangements....

On to the next size....
Go to family dollar and buy 7" cylindars for $1. Buy some hot pink SHORT rose for about .35 to .50. Buy some small floating white candles. for about .35- .50.
Let the roses blow open really big....you could even buy them really cheap at an end of the week special!
Fill the cylindar 3/4 up with water. take 1/2 the petals from a rose and place them on top of the water, then add the candle. Voila! style #2 is done...

On to style #3...

I like Loris Idea of floating Gerb, hot pink Please. Ivy bowls bought cheap at walmart or when they go on sale. May even be able to get them at Dollar tree.

Done! 3 styles and all.

That's what $5 per table will get ya

Other than painting the aspidistra, these are so simple anybody could do it.

 

[pdxdoug]

I think this is a heck of an opportunity to prove just how creative you can be! AND it's a great networking/marketing opportunity ...

That's what $5 per table will get ya.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but there is no way that you can do all that and make money for $5.00 each.
Somebody has to be paid to go to the Dollar store or Walmart and shop for the containers. Are you marking the containers up or giving them to them at cost?

And how much do you charge per hour for labor? $30 - $40? If it takes you 5 minutes to do each one at $35/hr that's $2.92 per centerpiece.

By the time all is said and done, I'm afraid you've lost money and worse yet, the cheapskates will expect you to work for nothing the following year.

Don't sell yourself short. Don't undervalue your work.

Doug

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but there is no way that you can do all that and make money for $5.00 each.
Somebody has to be paid to go to the Dollar store or Walmart and shop for the containers. Are you marking the containers up or giving them to them at cost?

And how much do you charge per hour for labor? $30 - $40? If it takes you 5 minutes to do each one at $35/hr that's $2.92 per centerpiece.

By the time all is said and done, I'm afraid you've lost money and worse yet, the cheapskates will expect you to work for nothing the following year.

Don't sell yourself short. Don't undervalue your work.

Doug

The owner of the shop will go get all the vases and whatnot- that's who.

If it takes a designer 5 minutes to put a gerb in a bowl, there is a major problem!

Literally it would take me all of 15 minutes to float 25 gerbs, if even that! MAYBE 30 minutes to do the cylindars.
The bulk of the work is in the eiffle towers, and it surly will not take 5 hours to do them!

Sometimes you have to go above and beyond to create relationships with your customers.

I think the bigger picture is being lost here. As I said before, this is a great marketing and networking opportunity.
Think of all the bouts and corsages you could get from this dance.
70 tables for goodness sake! Lets say they are only cocktail tables... 4 people per table, that's another 280 potential corsages or bouts. Lets say out of that 280 you only get 20 orders at an average of $20 per order...That's another $400 in sales!

In addition, I would expect to get repeat customers as well.....Lets say out of the 20 you gain 5 new loyal customers.
They spend an average of $150 per year.. That's another $750 in sales for this year that you didn't have last year.

But really, what do I know.....I mean- this year we have already done 55% of the TOTAL sales for the entire year last year. I have worked crazy hard to get those sales. I have formed relationships with lots of new customers....By just going above and beyond what anyone else ever did for their customers.

For instance-

Monday a woman somes into the shop. She says she waiting for her mom so they can go into the interiors shop next door. Says she's never been in the shop....sweet opportunity to wow a new potential customer. She sees all the premade wire bracelets I have displayed. She asks what they are, and I demonstrate. She says "oh wow!" So I show her my portfolio, she loves my work. She wants me to create about 200 wire butterflies and really only wants to spend about $3 each,,, I say well, lets see what I can come up with! Next week I have a consultation with her to do all the flowers for a Rainbow girls convention in June.

So then Yesterday, she comes back with a homegirl in tow. BTW- both of them are interior decorators. Both of them let me know they can design, but rather leave it to florists "sometimes". That statement used to bug the poo out of me....Now I know it's just a common thread.

Anyhoo- Sherry (the homie) falls in love with the shop, takes a look at my portoflio and just goes on and on about how amazing I am.....sweet! Tells me how the only other 2 florists in town who come close to my style are for lack of a better word "jerks" Then says the last time she came into this shop it was "horrible" yipes!!! and boss is hearing all of this....extra yipes.

Anyhoo-
She tells me that she will be back in the morning with a container so I can make something for her table for Easter. Cool. She shows up today with 3 containers to make arrangements in, and I get to do whatever I want. plus she buys 10 boxes of candy as favors for her guests on Easter. Total bill was $590 and some change.

THEN-
(yes it gets better)
She says, well how are you getting people to know where you are? I tell her with networking and marketing. I tell her about an ikebana demonstration I will be attending next wednesday at the Tanoan Country club. She says "well, that's just indusrty people" I say "no, it's for anybody! I imagine it will be mostly Tanoan Country club members, it costs $45 to attend"
She says "OH My God! I will go! I didn't know anything about it! I will bring Janice and INTRODUCE you to ALL OUR FREINDS!"

SCORE!!!!!

She write down all the info and calls her homegirl immediately.


All that because I said I'd give $3 butterflies a whirl.


So SO SO many opportunities are lost because the job seems like small potatos. All I'm saying is Look at the BIG picture.

Trust me Doug- I do not undervalue anything about myself.

 

[lori042499]

I have to agree with Shannon..Not every order has to be about making big money....sometimes it is about making the connection and relationship..I would definately be working out a deal to get an invite to this dance and network there and also get a mention or two or three because they need to know that you want something out of the deal ...

 

[twiggy]

I've been thinking more about this-

This woman came to you with no ideas.. no theme, no Ideas.. just that she needed flowers and there are 70 tables.

300 to 400 is a nice amount. what about suggesting to her 3 or 4 big arrangements to be placed in prominent locations that they can later raffle off.

if you can work with her on this, you have much to gain.. see Shannon's post. AND you have much to loose if you don't at least try to help her out.

If you just say no- (and someone else says yes) where do you think she will go with her future event orders? what about future everyday orders?

What would you all do? go to the person who said YES or NO??

 

[master J]

I've been thinking more about this-

This woman came to you with no ideas.. no theme, no Ideas.. just that she needed flowers and there are 70 tables.

300 to 400 is a nice amount. what about suggesting to her 3 or 4 big arrangements to be placed in prominent locations that they can later raffle off.

if you can work with her on this, you have much to gain.. see Shannon's post. AND you have much to loose if you don't at least try to help her out.

If you just say no- (and someone else says yes) where do you think she will go with her future event orders? what about future everyday orders?

What would you all do? go to the person who said YES or NO??

Sorry, I would love her to go to my competition and put them out of business. The $5 a table is a joke! These kind of people are disgusting and are not worth an ounce of my time. This is a losing battle, unless you are absolutely desperate for biz. JMO Yeah, you may get some dance orders from it, but they will ask for $5 corsages....:tread:

 

[Flowerchatter03]

Regardless of which way you decide to go, I would like to make this point: Even if the owner goes to Walmart, Dollar Store, whatever, YOU still need to get paid for what you do.

If you start discounting things because the "owner" is doing it, instead of paid help, that is a slippery slope. As an owner, your time is worth something too.

In the even that you can come up with a great idea that will put $$ in your pocket AND make the customer happy, then go for it and give her your ideas.

Let me give you an example on the other side of the coin:

I have a friend who does weddings on the side. She does not have an actual flower shop. She referred to me a bride and her mother because they wanted certain amount of flowers and my friend could not do them in the budget given. Since I have a shop, she thought I would be able to buy in bulk to save this bride money.

So, the mother comes in and speaks with me. Gives me her wish list and her budget which was $1500. That was for everthing including like 25 tables and they wanted huge arrangements there. So I worked to find a way and figured out that her girls could carry a single calla which would free up like over $300 towards the centerpieces and multiple other ideas to get this wedding under her budget.

No matter how much I worked on it or what I suggested, I was not able to get it within her requested budget but I did quote much more than my friend. For my hard work and my time, what did I get back? She went with someone else.

For some customers, it is all about the price and always will be. You need to determine if this customer is one like Shannons or more like what I described.

 

[Kristine]

Both sides make good arguments. One thing if you do decide to do this job. Make sure she know exactly what you can and can not do. So many time the beer budgets and champagne requests and changes and requests.... end up costing you more than any advertising/good will etc you get out of the deal

 

[pdxdoug]

Please understand that I'm not trying to argue with you.

The owner of the shop will go get all the vases and whatnot- that's who.
If it takes a designer 5 minutes to put a gerb in a bowl, there is a major problem!

Literally it would take me all of 15 minutes to float 25 gerbs, if even that! MAYBE 30 minutes to do the cylindars.
The bulk of the work is in the eiffle towers, and it surly will not take 5 hours to do them!

I want to bring up a couple of things:

First:

I am not a designer. I don't pretend to be. I have an accounting and computer science background. As such I look at things in an entirely different way than do my designers. I was tutored by a group of management consultants/accountants that specialized in turning around companies that were not profitable. They hired me to write job costing/process flow control software for them.
​

Second:

I knew the answer to my question about who was going to the Dollar store before I asked it. The point I was trying to have you consider is the owners time is worth something and cannot be discounted or 'free'.
​

Third:

My five minute estimate is realistic if you look at the process from start to finish. Unpack the containers, fill them with water, do whatever design and then repack for pickup/delivery. That 'extra time' has got to be accounted for. I quickly learned in the review of job costing numbers with the management group that time estimates are seldom ever correct.
​

Fourth:

Networking and creativity are great, but in this case look at your audience. This is a Father-Daughter dance. Having been to many a dance with my daughter as she grew up, none of the Dad's ever commented about the centerpieces (which we donated). We were too busy talking business, sports, vacations or colleges.

The girls ? They, too, were oblivious, always off in a group somewhere talking and squealing happily, as girls do. They could hardly sit at the table with us long enough to eat a portion of their dinner before dashing off with their friends. There were a few Mothers there, all volunteers who would probably not be pressed into organizing another event again.
​

I congratulate you for increasing YTD sales and seeing opportunities that others have missed, but I just want you to be profitable.

The best~
Doug

 

[lori042499]

I would never do something in kind for anyone's wedding, but a community dance function is different especially if you barter for recognition on supplying over the top arrangements for their small budget...but someone's wedding is way different...unless of course it is a local talk show celebrity that will name drop every minute of everyday like Star Jones did...but your average bride won't be doing that..

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Doug-

Glad you're not arguing with me.

5.83 hours is way too much time to do this event. I may be faster than the average bear, but even so, 5.83 hours is just too long!

And as you may or may not know,,,I have made a career out of turning around failing shops. Everything from shops that had hardly no sales and weren't making money to shops who were doing $2,500 to $4000 a day and not making money.

I have seen shop after shop close because they have turned up their nose at such events.

I'll agree the men couldn't care less about the flowers. But the women will, even if they are disgusted with their involvement of the dance. And so will the moms. I promise most of them will ask "what were the flowers like?"

Simple solution to the who-will-get-the-vases problem....Have the customer provide them. Have her do that work. And still charge $5 per table.

It can be done.

I hate to......no, I'm happy to remind people of the phrase "thinking outside of the box" That is what we must do to stay in business.

Flower shops are dropping like flies and we need to be revelant and necessary in order to stay as an industry. The 2 things that keep us revelant and necessary is our design skills and our customer service.


And to Flowerchatter-
Some people are just jackasses. That customer seems to fit that bill.
Like I said in another thread. I have been booking about 70% of the weddings I do consultations for. Some of them I've worked pretty dang hard on, but yet they still go somewhere else. Bummer. Sharon McGukin told the audience at a design show I attended a few years back "You must SELL the wedding. You Must make them not want to go anywhere else. You wouldn't want to pay a car dealer a fee for looking at a car would you?" That was a light bulb moment for me.
I try so hard to get the job, but sometimes, no matter what you do, they go else where. Just the nature of the business. it can be frustrating and heart breaking but we just keep tryin'