Co-branding by the wire services

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o.k. Mrs. K

flowerknife+us said:
Boss, Correct me if I'm Wrong, you stated that both Tel. and Ftd have those discount coupons in newprint, magazines etc. Difference is Teleflora coupons direct them to a florist to use them, FTD the last I was aware directed them to the .con site to be sent to the florist discounted. FTD never use to reimburse the coupon amount to the florist, Teleflora does. Do I have my facts wrong?

Thanks, Knife's Wife
They do reimburse $3.25 on the $3.00 coupon...

NOW, what said, what IF they started reimbursing FTD florists $3.25 for each TF coupon too... might start another form of REBATE, and they could escalaite by a quarter each time they matched oeach other...

Other companies already do this, pizza places, oil changes, even ourt shoe stores here do it...what matter does it make whoes coupon it is, if you already have your own as well, and this way it might bring CONsumers to the other company....

Yes I will take the $3.00 one, but like Infinita said, NONE of US can afford to handle the $10.00 variety...
 
I think you all are missing the point

Ten dollars to aquire a new customer is NOTHING!

The whole goal is to get buyers hooked on the service. We all know that the $10 just basically wipes out their 'sending' fee and they'll still have 27% of the product sale, the merc fees, and the container sales to the florists as part of the profit picture...

Shops would be smart to accept these coupons as long as they aquire the marketing information (address, phone, email) that FTD would be getting as well. Truth is, most florists are lousy marketers and only think of the 'lost $10' instead of the gained customer.

Customers DO NOT understand the nature of the order exchange business and as long as there are plenty of florists willing to pay dues to receive these deeply discounted orders and support companies whose primary goal is to redirect local orders AWAY from their member florists (while ignoring all the deceptive marketers using their logos) they will be around.

Take a look at this: -http://www.florist2000.com/Ftd-Florist.asp

"Florist2000 is a certified FTD Florist" EXCUSE ME - they are United Arab Emirates registered company that consists of a bank of phone operators sitting in India!!!!. (To view the page, open a new browser window and cut and paste the URL, removing "-" from the beginning.)

This whole scheme has gotten so dysfunctional....
 
Excuse ME

Rosiescenario said:
Take a look at this: -http://www.florist2000.com/Ftd-Florist.asp

"Florist2000 is a certified FTD Florist" EXCUSE ME - they are United Arab Emirates registered company that consists of a bank of phone operators sitting in India!!!!. (To view the page, open a new browser window and cut and paste the URL, removing "-" from the beginning.)

This whole scheme has gotten so dysfunctional....
Agree on the DYSFYNCTIONAL part ....but I think you missed something:

http://www.florist2000.com/Arkansas/Fayetteville2.asp

Not an FTD logo I see there, but a TF one !

There may be FTD as well, but I did not find one on the 10-12 pages I looked at...

I have been saying for 2 years now, that we will see a consolidation in the industry....this is only the beginning. Eventually there will be fewer florists associated with any WS, but these florists (WS) will control the majority of the order volume...
 
BOSS said:
I have been saying for 2 years now, that we will see a consolidation in the industry....this is only the beginning. Eventually there will be fewer florists associated with any WS, but these florists (WS) will control the majority of the order volume...

Boss,

There are only two reasons these companies exist -

1) They have SEO'd the Google search in an amazing fashion. When (not if, but when) Google tweaks their algo to downgrade spammy sites that have a duplicate page for every country, state and city...these guys will disappear from the top of the search engine results pages. Google did it to the Gift Tree sites last fall and these and their lot are next. (Hope it's sooner than later.)

2) They take in alot of orders...for now...BUT only because they mislead consumers about the character of services and misrepresent their locations. IMO, they violate several laws governed by the Federal Trade Commission and will eventually become more of a liability than an asset to the companies that allow them to use their deceptive marketing tactics.

They don't deliver anything and add absolutely no value to the purchase... nor do they support our industry - because they're not florists. These guys, Flora2000, don't collect sales tax, don't pay US taxes - they only suck out the profits....and spit back the real work to florists who don't have a clue where they're customers have gone...

Sorry to have taken this thread off track a bit. And you are right, they have affiliations with Grower Flowers, Interflora, Teleflora and FTD.
 
Like in a earlier post, the $10.00 is off the total charged from ftd.com site. So they had the chance to up any fees to make sure that is covered when the $10.00 is taken off. And of someone is not using that coupon, well the increase in price is added on to the next customer. Every chance I have to gain a new DIRECT customer, I do. I have been real successful since christmas to do this. Having coupons in Mcdonalds will take orders from you and other order gatherers out there. I thought I read somewhere that usually only 1 to 5% of people will redeem a coupon. In my town I havent had anyone redeem a coupon from any holidays from any wire service for the last 5 years I would say or more.
FTD will ssay they are doing this to get orders from you....
I say FTD is doing this to get more orders for them.
Luc
 
There has been a lot stereotyping of McDonald's customers. Maybe that is a statistic across the board, but one of the McDonald's near us (there's actually many) has a wide range of frequenters. Personally I HATE McDonald's, but my husband loves them so I get to see who goes there (drive-thru). How McDonald's got to be so popular must be by subliminal seduction because their burgers suck and their service is one big joke. Asked for lettuce to be added to a burger of some kind and they come back with, "That does not come with lettuce". Yes, I know, can you please add it? No, it does not come with lettuce, we can not add it. Charge me for it for crying out loud. No we cannot add anything. And stupid me - I forgot and tried it again - same routine. Sheesh - how did McDonald's get so popular? Price? Are people these days really that easy to please - where price is ALL they care about?

In Niagara Falls, Canada my husband got a cheeseburger at McDonald's with no burger on it, just the cheese. It is called a cheeseBURGER isn't it? Sure had them all laughing, though.
 
First and foremost, the coupon is for FTD.COM. How many 14-17 yr olds have a credit card? Darn few in my neck of the woods. As far as the $10 off, that is their problem not mine. I will not accept orders lower than I can profitably fill so their $10 may just come back to me in spades if they try to recoup on my end. Secondly, I will never take a coupon for $10 if I can not get reimbursed + for it. Teleflora coupons work and have worked since the inception, but the product sells.
And if my local customer thinks that getting $10 off by ordering on the internet or calling 800callftd then guess my education program isn't working properly in marketing to my local consumers. Just another case of FTDI and FTD.COM showing they are two separate entities. Remember that, they are not the same company (so they say)
IMHO Co branding with FTD in the past few years has been a no brainer...lower and lower status as far as the "Brand"
 
Rebuttal

Glad to see we have some people awake over here.

Just a couple of notes.

Luc- you said you aren't worried because if TF did this, it have to come through the TF site and that would be a full value order. I'm thinking it would probably come through the flowerclub site and would be discounted 27% just like any other order. Besides Flowerclub has more corporate contacts to make it work for them.

Infinite- you don't think this will have any real impact because it is being done through Micky D's. Well, I might disagree. It will be the women who will be eating the salads <Adkins and South Beach> and they are the ones that most likely will be ordering the Mother's Day flowers. And besides what is the last time you asked a portential customer to fill out a financial statement before you were willing to sell them flowers. They are not asking for credit. The FTD site has items starting at $35 and $10 off is very attactive to most people.

Rosie- Yes, you and others have indicated that accepting these coupons directly is a good thing. I respectfully disagree. At a major holiday, you want to do as much "full value" business as you can. You will already have your fair share of incoming wire orders at -28%, you don't really need more. Remember that coupon says ANY MOTHER"S DAY flowers. If you are offering a $35 arrangment for local concuption, that $10 off means you just discounted yourself 28%. All of this just to get some names and addresses will probably leave you with little money after the holiday. And if these were your regular customers who used the coupon, you lose again.

This is escalation of the battle over the internet. The interesting thing is 1-800, TF.com, Flowerclub and FTD.com and many other sites are all showing $9.95 sending fees. Some on the internet have advertised a 15% discount for early order. Fifteen percent on a $50 order is only $7.50. Some have offered FREE delivery, but that doesn't have much of an impact becasue it is an unspecified amount. Now we have the discount in dollars. Anyone can do this math.

Boss, for what it is worth your comments are getting very close to the heart of this issue. I'm surprised that hasn't bee more of an upheaval.
 
Griff said:
Infinite- you don't think this will have any real impact because it is being done through Micky D's. Well, I might disagree. It will be the women who will be eating the salads <Adkins and South Beach> and they are the ones that most likely will be ordering the Mother's Day flowers. And besides what is the last time you asked a portential customer to fill out a financial statement before you were willing to sell them flowers. They are not asking for credit. The FTD site has items starting at $35 and $10 off is very attactive to most people.

Not quite what I said (I think??). I said it will have an impact, because it will drive down the average FTD.com order. The average McD's customer is not a big spender.

Your Atkins & South Beach example is nice in theory, except that McD's has openly complained that no one buys their Light Menu Items.

I don't ask for financials when a customer is paying by VISA, but I sure don't market to budget-strapped clientèle, either. FTD is co-branding with a company that offers many coupons, discounts and Value Menu items, Deal of the Day promos and $1 or less hamburgers.
 
Mc D's salad

Mr Martin- can't disagree with most of what you said. McDonald's doesn't have much to lose and that is what co-branding is all about. Wendy's has the best salad down here. From what I can see, they have had to put very little into the pot to get FTD to work with them. And why not. FTD does not have much to lose either. Offering to give away the sending fee doesn't really happen in less there is a resulting order.

The point that I'm trying to get across here without pounding on everyone's head, is that this seems to be a new level of corporate co-branding. As is always the case, the florist is the one doing all the work and getting very little in return. I honestly think this one has been very well thought out. It directs customers to the website and helps bypass everyone else that may be there because the coupon is only good for ONE website. I think that this really is the start of who controls the florist internet market. The florist might have a website for his or her town, but this coupon helps bypass their site. Other sites can offer discounted delivery, early order discounts and whatever, but the $10 is a concrete number, not a percentage. Other wire servcies WILL FOLLOW. They have to.The local florist can't afford to go into a discount war because they will lose, And if this program doesn't work with McDonald's, oh well. There are thousands of other companies to try something else with. In the meantime, your local customers see endless examples where floral arrangments are discounted to sell something else. We are on the losing end everytime and most of the responses here and on the other board have been less than concerned.

Just my thoughts on only two cups of coffee.
 
Griff said:
Rosie- Yes, you and others have indicated that accepting these coupons directly is a good thing. I respectfully disagree. At a major holiday, you want to do as much "full value" business as you can. You will already have your fair share of incoming wire orders at -28%, you don't really need more. Remember that coupon says ANY MOTHER"S DAY flowers. If you are offering a $35 arrangment for local concuption, that $10 off means you just discounted yourself 28%. All of this just to get some names and addresses will probably leave you with little money after the holiday. And if these were your regular customers who used the coupon, you lose again.

Griff -
Any florist can match that FTD discount. All you need to do is NOT charge the customer a $10 sending fee and you've matched their price....... If it's a local order, there is still $5 padded into FTD's prices for delivery. If it's a wire out, you get to keep 20% plus a rebate.

I find this coupon and the 1-800-flowers requiring Bloomnet members to eat part of their 20% discount programs a VERY bad thing. The funny thing is, all these guys are having problems competing with their own gatherers....LOL ..and it still puzzles me why florists support these networks.
 
Rosiescenario said:
Griff -
The funny thing is, all these guys are having problems competing with their own gatherers....LOL ..and it still puzzles me why florists support these networks.
How true !!

Florists still controll the majority of the order volume... I have friends that, if we were to put lets say, 15 shops orders together, would rival the volume done thru dot.com....

Why they support the network...simple...$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
O.k.

Griff said:
Glad to see we have some people awake over here.

Boss, for what it is worth your comments are getting very close to the heart of this issue. I'm surprised that hasn't bee more of an upheaval.
Gimme the thought of which you speak and I will elaborate...

As to an upheavel...keep in mind, that "MOST" florists have NO CLUE !~ Only the ones here on the web have any idea as to what is happening... I KNOW, I am in 1-2 shops in different states each week....

Glad to see this forum generating some education...THANKS Ryan... Best place on the web for REAL Florists....
 
Random Thoughts

Sorry, I didn't mean to wander away. As I started this converstaion, think that it is time to bring it to a conculsion.

Here is just some random thoughts on the subject of co-branding.

When anyone starts a local business we all know that most cusotmers are going to be drawn to your business within a 5-7 mile radius around your business. It doesn't matter whether you open a dry cleaners, a nail shop, a small restuarant or a flowier shop, the vast majority of your customer base is going to come from the 5-7 mile circle around your business location.

Florist, however, had a very special situation. They have the ability to extend pass the "outer ring". It is accoumplished by the use of a wire servcice. It gives the florists the ability to deliver flowers well pass that outer ring without having to actually deliver the flowers themselves. It also brings in business from outside that ring from people that the florist did not even know existed.

It is now apparent to me that the greatest tool we had is rapidly becoming our greatest weakness. The ability to send and receive orders outside our customer base and the discounting program attached to it is now being used against us by the same people who helped create it. That goes not only for the WS, but also for some of the larger florists in this country. Co-branding is just another example of the progression as to how some can think up ways to use this special facet of our industry against us and then refer to it as a marketing tool.

What this special hybred version of co-branding brings to the table is that now anyone will be able to take advantage of the discounting between florists. If you have a grand opening for a gas station and you want to promote "fill up your tank", promote flowers. If your want to encourage people to use their credit card more often, promote flowers. If you want to promote a new salad, get them to buy the salad and offer a discount coupon to promote flowers. What's wrong with you ask? THEY ARE PROMOTING DISCOUNTED FLOWERS! And worse yet to your customers in the 5-7 mile ring.

It is rapidly getting to a point that the consumer isn't going to want to go to a flower shop to buy flowers, they are just going to look around for the best deal. They will look first at the internet and see who is giving the best discount. And don't even think they are going to try and find YOUR site because there are so many others to look at that are offering some price break. If you don't have time to look on the internet, sort through your coupons and see who has a flower special this month. In other words, YOUR flower business and creativity are only as good as the amount of the deal on the coupon. This is literally, discounting your whole business by people having nothing to lose by how they present the discount BECAUSE THAT DISCOUNT COMES OUT YOUR POCKET, NOT THEIRS. Even in the case of giving $10 off, florists know that it is coming from the sending fee, but don't expect the consumer to always figure this out. And you can't keep trying to educate the consumer because eventually you are going to have to "fess up" to that dirty little secret that the sender has been getting a discount and rebate all these years.

For some reason, most realize this is problem and yet we can't get over the hump. It really isn't that difficult to figure out. Yet we have some who refuse to change and have all sorts of reasons why they can't. This discounting is going to hurt their large shops just as much as it hurts the small shop, yet here we are still debating the subject.
 
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