Curiouser and curiouser

[bloomz]

I think Sher may be very right and I also think we just lost a very valuable poster (one of the very best) due to a couple undeserved (IMO) red dots.

 

[Tracy D'Amico]

I'm sorry to hear that something so trivial as "rep power" can cause so much ruckus, especially enough to make someone leave the board, and most especially if they were a valued poster here ....

On one hand maybe we need to be nicer to each other, and on the other, maybe we need to thicken our skins a little about these things.

 

[felicityflowers]

Is a "red dot" really worth leaving the forum over? Really?

We are a diverse community here and sometimes it's just best to agree to disagree. Rep systems are a part of 95% of communities on the internet and I can't understand why a group of adults are seriously still discussing the durn dots!!

It EXHAUSTS me to read about the "dots" again for the blue-millionth time. I don't know why I even click on the thread but, I guess it's like a car accident - you just can't look away.

:bouncy: (he's a happy red dot )

 

[CHR]

I do not think Admins really need TO HAVE REPS...

'Cuz if they/we didn't, our 'atta boys/girls' to others would mean zilch. (Every member as a rep score.)

if they so chose, can manipulate whatever they want

We (admins) could just rep each other back and forth and really throw the scale, but that's not what anyone on the admin team is about. We don't get any more pay for our rep levels. :tongue

There is way too much discussion over reps, too much use of red dots as retaliation for a post that may not be a "concensus" post and so on. It diminishes the value of FlowerChat.

I've never seen more trolling nor disrespect for fellow boardies as I have recently. Maybe it's the stress at work, or maybe it's false empowerment to think it's OK to repeatedly beat a dead horse and insult fine folks while not irritating them.

I started a thread recently and put a "if you do "this" in this thread, you'll get a red dot from me" just because I'm tired of a discussion being derailed by the SSDD.

A little bit more respect would go a long way to restore decorum and collegiality.

I have handed out very, very few red dots and they were for very, very bad behaviour.. None recently, BTW... and have only every received 1... and it was for defending an OG friend.

Just posting so this can go to a third page, just for Ryan.

:blowkiss:

Silly girl! I set my interface to display 20 posts per page (less flipping - I like it) so I'm still on Pg. 1. :> UserCP ---> Edit Options ---> Scroll down to 'Thread Display Options" and set "Number of Posts to Show Per Page" to "Show 20 Posts Per Page".

I think Sher may be very right and I also think we just lost a very valuable poster (one of the very best) due to a couple undeserved (IMO) red dots.

I hope we don't lose anyone over dots unless they're pushed over the edge earning red ones.

maybe we need to be nicer to each other, and on the other, maybe we need to thicken our skins a little about these things.

Amen!

 

[Sher]

This was my complete quote.....

"when everyone knows that as an admin of any forum , Admins , if they so chose, can manipulate whatever they want...this is not to imply that FC Admins do, but that they really should not have "reps" ...THEY ALREADY HAVE IT BY BEING AN ADMIN...."

And I still think that the very nature of being in an exalted position of an admin does not require having a "rep"...nor do I believe that every little sneeze..I call them that when it is a back and forth conversation of two words between two people should boost up a rep ...I think the value of ones posts means more than the volume of the back and forth..again IMHO it diminshes what reps were suppose to be..or at least what I understood.
As to the reason somene might chose to leave...well, look at the browbeating some have taken or the rudeness some have rec'd..who would want to place themselves in a position to be on the receiving end of such nastiness/aggresivness..especially someone who actually has contributed significant meaningful posts...as we get more and more folks here, our behavior seem to have become less and less kind...again JMHOs and I do not mean that it is from the new folks, please do not misconstrue that sentence, but I have seen a drop in posts from some of the long standing posters..can't say that I blame them.
Nite all
Sher.

 

[Victoria]

Yes it is getting "less kind" in here. As a community expands so does the diversity of it's people. Unfortunately humanity, in all it's glory is not kind by nature. Kindness is something that must be worked at and nurtured. It's easier being mean spirited and nasty because the actions don't really have to be defended. All the person has to do is push, pick and bully until the target crumbles or finally breaks and joins the nasty fray.

For the most part, the nasties are still part of the minority in here, thanks to the inherent strength and goodness in so many others... those who are more inclined to express themselves thoughtfully while offering positive support to other members in the community.

Yes, the bigger we get, the less insular is our part of the world.

V

 

[CHR]

look at the browbeating some have taken or the rudeness some have rec'd..who would want to place themselves in a position to be on the receiving end of such nastiness/aggresivness..especially someone who actually has contributed significant meaningful posts...

I think that applies to a number of members recently, and especially our host who has taken a lot of bullets while trying to keep this place in balance and from turning into a degraded FB free-for-all.

IMO he's owed our thanks for his commitment to empowering locals and keeping this place free and welcome to all real florists.

 

[elmo]

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:


Just pass it on, it works wonders!
I'm glad to have a place to go,
THANKS

 

[Connie]

I came here from "the other board," and I can tell you that it could be, and often was, way nastier, less kind than FC has ever been.

Dots! What does it really matter? I just want to talk about growing my business, but as with Heather, it must be the rubber-necker in me that draws me to these threads.

I'm with Elmo on this one. I need a place to come.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I think that applies to a number of members recently, and especially our host who has taken a lot of bullets while trying to keep this place in balance and from turning into a degraded FB free-for-all.

IMO he's owed our thanks for his commitment to empowering locals and keeping this place free and welcome to all real florists.

Members leaving FC because of "dots".....REALLY??...long time posters avoiding FC because of dots??......YOU want lottsa "dots" be an FC'er that contributes a lot, become an admin...if that's what makes your world go around!!
You're right...admins DON'T need dots......it's NOT about vanity.

 

[Victoria]

it's NOT about vanity.

It's not about vanity for most of us Mike. It's about a feeling of appreciation and value. We all need to feel that on occasion... even in cyberspace.

Regarding a "valued" poster leaving because he or she received unwarranted red dots, that's is an unfortunate decision on their part. If any of us who have been given nasty, unsigned red dots left, Flowerchat may be a barren wasteland.


V

 

[Sher]

Not so much about leaving because of dots but for attitudes about the dots and some really nasty sparring...it is unneccessary...getting ones point across is just as easy voicing it in a pleasant mode as it is is to be hurtful or mean..then to cap it off with an anon red dot is just way over the top...I think..
The only time I have ever used a red dot was on 12bucks...and that was aftr he stole images from CHR...and maybe one person trying to join who was a jerk....maybe we should eliminate red dots and have a system for reviewing new applicants...like a simple yes or no....
And Mikey everyone knows you Admins do not do this for fame and glory...it is time consuming and not always does it reap any reward much less a thank you...so here is my thank you to you for the time you spend! Thank you!
Sher

 

[lori042499]

The dots are definately important...they let you know who you touch with your words, kind of the same as making connections with real life acquaintences that turn into friends...The red dots also are helpful if signed so you can be warned that you rubbed someone the wrong way or offended someone...Every signed red dot that I have gotten I have learned from, the unsigned ones are silly because I have no way to learn from them, sometimes the writing or phrase that goes with an anon dot doesn't even make sense...these tend to make me mad because as a normal and functioning person of social character I like to resolve issues and by giving a signatureless red dot someone is not letting me do the correct social thing...I deem these people as silly, and insignifigant to my life and would love to be able to identify them and in the future have no dealings with them...I will whole heartedly accept any red dot with a signature as valid even if I don't agree with it because they signed it...and they have given me the change to open up dialog with them to understand why I ticked them off, thus offering to help me learn about my shortcomings or agree to disagree....To leave because of red and green dots, would be the equal to picking up all of your toys and leaving a sandbox because the other kids weren't letting you have your way, silly just silly...

I also agree with V, in that this place and its squabbles are much more tame than FB where they are just downright mean, nasty and unfit for humankind with their words. Not everyone, but a good bunch of complete a holes...I would much rather take this place where you know who and where the crap is coming from and can steer clear of it if you choose to...

 

[LJVF]

I think the departure of this valued poster that everyone is referring to has little to do with dots and everything to do with the continued adjustment of the system.

Yes the host and admin's have the right to make any adjustments they deem necessary, after all it's their board and they're doing all the work operating it. But the integrity of the reputation system is questioned when it is continually adjusted to favor one poster over another. This does not allow for an equally weighted environment.

When there are no repercussions on this "ranking" for certain posters, but there are for others, this creates an unequal playing field. A vulnerable poster may feel they cannot openly express their feelings without the fear of jeopardizing their reputation if it is against the non vulnerable ones.

If this dot system were not in place, this whole thing would be a non issue. Posters could freely post and moderators have the power to moderate. But when a poster is numerically rated by "rep power", no matter how trivial people feel this is, it still ranks one poster over another.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just offering an explanation as to why some members are becoming annoyed with the adjustments to the rep power formula, or the reputation system in general.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I think the departure of this valued poster that everyone is referring to has little to do with dots and everything to do with the continued adjustment of the system.

Yes the host and admin's have the right to make any adjustments they deem necessary, after all it's their board and they're doing all the work operating it. But the integrity of the reputation system is questioned when it is continually adjusted to favor one poster over another. This does not allow for an equally weighted environment.

When there are no repercussions on this "ranking" for certain posters, but there are for others, this creates an unequal playing field. A vulnerable poster may feel they cannot openly express their feelings without the fear of jeopardizing their reputation if it is against the non vulnerable ones.

If this dot system were not in place, this whole thing would be a non issue. Posters could freely post and moderators have the power to moderate. But when a poster is numerically rated by "rep power", no matter how trivial people feel this is, it still ranks one poster over another.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just offering an explanation as to why some members are becoming annoyed with the adjustments to the rep power formula, or the reputation system in general.

Darrell...this is the BEST post in this thread!!
Little is "trivial" on FlowerChat.....behavioral altercation is often the platform for "grading" posters, and their "issues" with being scrutinized by their peer group tends to give them "pause" prior TO POSTING their opinions.
Many an angry banter has been "avoided" by a poster's re-reading of their words, BEFORE hitting the post button.
We, as a floral community, can ONLY do so much, to "appease" everyone, and somewhere along the line, someone is GOING TO BE annoyed, and "leave"!!
I VERY MUCH appreciate my customers who TELL me they've been annoyed, instead of JUST STOP being customers...a sage lesson I learned long ago!!

 

[lori042499]

I think the departure of this valued poster that everyone is referring to has little to do with dots and everything to do with the continued adjustment of the system.

Yes the host and admin's have the right to make any adjustments they deem necessary, after all it's their board and they're doing all the work operating it. But the integrity of the reputation system is questioned when it is continually adjusted to favor one poster over another. This does not allow for an equally weighted environment.

When there are no repercussions on this "ranking" for certain posters, but there are for others, this creates an unequal playing field. A vulnerable poster may feel they cannot openly express their feelings without the fear of jeopardizing their reputation if it is against the non vulnerable ones.

If this dot system were not in place, this whole thing would be a non issue. Posters could freely post and moderators have the power to moderate. But when a poster is numerically rated by "rep power", no matter how trivial people feel this is, it still ranks one poster over another.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just offering an explanation as to why some members are becoming annoyed with the adjustments to the rep power formula, or the reputation system in general.

When I first came on this scene, I was never afraid of speaking my mind...I regularly argued my points against many of the senior posters...I never ever got a red dot for speaking my mind. I did it professionally and unemotionally...because I was unafraid I made my points and now have a pretty good rep...if you think about it this is how it works all over real life, you meet people and immediately make judgemnets on them as to where they fit in your life mentally giving them red and green dots for things they say and actions they portray, they don't necessarily know it unless they can read your mannerisms or you tell them, but if people are at all socially inclined, you pretty much can tell by body language where you stand with most people....

Without the rep issue it is very hard to make these evaluations because with typing and reading you do not get mannerisms, voice tones and such as we are all used to using to judge if we are getting our point across and how it is being recieved...I find that the younger generation say 25 and younger have a wonderful time getting across their whole persona on the computer where people in their thirties and forties get by ok and people older than that struggle(just very vast generalizations)...This could be the major reason why this gets talked about so frequently on here....There is a such a vast array of ages, tech ability and generations all with a differing understanding on social ways...bridgeing gaps is often difficult especially when it is generational or technological...

 

[Audra]

Members leaving FC because of "dots".....REALLY??...long time posters avoiding FC because of dots??......YOU want lottsa "dots" be an FC'er that contributes a lot, become an admin...if that's what makes your world go around!!
You're right...admins DON'T need dots......it's NOT about vanity.

I didn't leave because of dots, I have stepped away because I got very tired of the base rudeness and nastiness in certain forums. I still check the board occasionally but not like I did before - I just don't get the same enjoyment from the board.

 

[theRKF]

the integrity of the reputation system is questioned when it is continually adjusted to favor one poster over another. This does not allow for an equally weighted environment.

Is that what you really think?

If you think that's possible with our system, you're mistaken.

If you think that's the intention, you're so far off base that ... I don't even know what. It's just pathetically wrong. I'm sorry you feel that way - but if you believe that then there is no point in addressing this any further because you won't believe our answers.

When there are no repercussions on this "ranking" for certain posters, but there are for others, this creates an unequal playing field.

Again - not sure where you're going with this. But I am surprised, as you seemed to be one of the most savvy in regards to the system. You have a good idea how vBulletin operates. I'm miffed.

Ryan

 

[LJVF]

Is that what you really think?

If you think that's possible with our system, you're mistaken.

If you think that's the intention, you're so far off base that ... I don't even know what. It's just pathetically wrong. I'm sorry you feel that way - but if you believe that then there is no point in addressing this any further because you won't believe our answers.



Again - not sure where you're going with this. But I am surprised, as you seemed to be one of the most savvy in regards to the system. You have a good idea how vBulletin operates. I'm miffed.

Ryan

Ryan, my goal wasn't to stir the pot, but it looks like that's what I've done. I was only making an attempt to explain why some posters are not happy with system and the adjustments.

Some posters rep powers are awarded periodic adjustments upward, where the others don't have this same opportunity. These adjustments appear to be an attempt to offset the weight that some other high rep posters carry. If a high rep power poster surpasses or threatens to surpass, say an admin, then the admin seems to be awarded more rep power points without acquiring them through the normal process. For example, this latest system adjustment allowed for all the admins to raise their rep power to 169, while the rest of us were lowered. If my observation is off base, please explain to me otherwise.

Red dots really do not carry any weight when given to these particular posters (admins), because the periodic adjustments will always keep them ahead of everyone else. It was disappointing to see certain invulnerable high rep powered posters use their power to threaten vulnerable posters with red dots if they spoke their opinion.

Why do the moderators need to use the reputation system to moderate the boards when they have the ultimate power of locking threads, suspending and/or banning posters if these posters choose to become hostile?

Ryan, I appreciate everything you've done with FlowerChat and all the hard work you've put into it. It is your board and you call the shots, it is your right and you deserve it. But there is no denying that some posters ("customers" as mikey put it) are not happy with the current state of reputation system.

I apologize to those that may be offended by my posts in this thread, I'm just sad and disappointed that one of my favorite posters here has decided to leave.

 

[BOSS]

Some posters rep powers are awarded periodic adjustments upward, where the others don't have this same opportunity. These adjustments appear to be an attempt to offset the weight that some other high rep posters carry. If a high rep power poster surpasses or threatens to surpass, say an admin, then the admin seems to be awarded more rep power points without acquiring them through the normal process. For example, this latest system adjustment allowed for all the admins to raise their rep power to 169, while the rest of us were lowered. If my observation is off base, please explain to me otherwise.

Red dots really do not carry any weight when given to these particular posters (admins), because the periodic adjustments will always keep them ahead of everyone else. It was disappointing to see certain invulnerable high rep powered posters use their power to threaten vulnerable posters with red dots if they spoke their opinion.

Why do the moderators need to use the reputation system to moderate the boards when they have the ultimate power of locking threads, suspending and/or banning posters if these posters choose to become hostile?

Hmm...since I've been mentioned (Admin) I'll throw my 3 cents into the mix as well. Personally, I'd like to see the reputation system disappear, it means little to me, and is something I rarely use good or bad.

Yes, I do have the power to lock threads, I can change just about anything on the site, and it is true I can make people disappear. Do I? On rare occasions, yes, when it is warranted by individual posters behavior, but in every case where I have applied this power it has been toward someone personally attacking another poster, myself not included, I have thick skin and generally consider the source. I would NEVER abuse the power granted to me for personal reasons, and I know neither would Ryan or any of the other admins. We tend to hold off, enter private discussions and then try to err on the side of caution.

Yes, the top rep point is now 169, as we hit another threshold and the system auto-adjusted everyone evenly across the board. There was a time when my rep was 158, it stayed there for many months, and I received 15-20 green dots without it changing...who cares...the whole thing is silly.

It's also a good example of what happens when someone or some group takes things a bit too far, and gets their panties in a bunch over something so trivial.

When they system "adjusts" it's across the board, not individual by individual. There are "ranges" that adjust starting out by the 100 up to 1000, then by the 1000 up to 10,000 and then by 10,000 on up. These are for the Green Dots. The numerical point system is a whole other thing.

If we really want to get down and dirty we could turn on the User Ranks, but alas, it's not necessary and would only create more crud.

I love this community, and every one of you!