Direct Sending Discount Controversy

[MANORVILLE]

Imagine.....The Media Reports " Mass Exodus from the Wire Services "

We've belonged to either FTD or TF or both for 27 years. Plus some of the other medium to large WS's like Redbook, AFS, and Florafax now and then thrown in there over the last 27 years. The one I joined is small and suits our needs. I will not name it since I am not their cheerleader. They just happen to suit our needs like I said.

But what I am trying to get at is that if a lot more florists who have always belonged to one of the big two quit then the impact would be felt and the more florists' that quit the bigger the impact.

I suppose it's more of a fantasy than anything else to hope that a few thousand florists' would all wake up at once. LOL

I'm with you Patty, and it should be far more than a dream, or wishful thnking. At least one of ours is going this week and the other soon to follow if all goes well.

 

[Carrington]

I'm with you Patty, and it should be far more than a dream, or wishful thnking. .

I don't feel it is wishful thinking.

While it's a great shame that a once successful and embracing business model is losing support because of a need to drive share value up, the fact is it is not working for a lot of florists.

The only thing holding a lot of UK florists back from leaving the WS over here is the lack of an easy way to send out orders that have been generated as a result of positioning/marketing themselves as a florist of choice in their local area.

Having observed all that is going on in the UK and now over there I am convinced it will happen and that after our Mother's Day (March 18th) there will be a lot of UK florists reviewing their position in order to have plenty of time to prepare for the next round of peaks.

If anyone is interested we have published a feature in our March issue on a florist who resigned their membership of a major relay after 40 years and their reasons for doing it. It's embargoed till 8/3/07 but if you would like a PDF version send me a private e-mail and we’ll send it over to you.

It probably won't please the WS's but as a totally independent magazine we have a duty to report all the things that are affecting our readership so that they can make a valid judgement based on both sides of the coin.

The tide is turning ... with a lot of regret in many cases ... but reality says there has to be a better/fairer way for both florist and more importantly consumer

Kind regards,

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

...
The tide is turning ... with a lot of regret in many cases ... but reality says there has to be a better/fairer way for both florist and more importantly consumer

The tide is turning alright...against small mom n pops. The existing wire services aren't going anywhere, but what is happening is that the number of subscribed WS shops that used to sit back and make a nice profit from filling and sending WS orders will fall precipitously. It is the classic capitalistic battle between the big guys v. the little guys..

What is going to happen is that areas will have "regional filling shops" (well, they already do, but TFTD is loath to tell existing small "member/partner" (ha!) florists this fact), where the big OGs will always be able to get their skimmed orders filled. In fact, when we were a TFTD drone, we were almost always getting the rejected orders from the "preferred" or "established" filler, in other words orders that were not profitable. Add to that the DS marketers, and the vast majority of customers who think that TF and FTD own/franchise their affiliate shops, and you have a recipe for the eventual grinding to a slow trickle of everyday orders, the bread n butter of the industry.

Basement betties learned this long ago, and I am sure chuckle every time a new, fresh-faced "florist" opens a new storefront and expects the everyday sales to support the place.

Hah!

 

[TOTO]

Some of you JUST TOO FUNNY!

I know we're going to beat this DEAD HORSE to CHOP MEAT over the issue of a F2F earned sending commission (order acquisition commission), but come on folks, GIVE ME A BREAK!

For those of you with the OLD CLUB MENTALITY, you have NO PROBLEM sending or filling at NET 71% (less another -10%) with all those DUES and FEES on top of you.

But HEY, not going to grant that 20% to another REAL FLORIST who is your conterpart and does your doo!

Then on the flip side and for some of you, it's OK to give your funeral director a discount of 20% to 30% or your caterer or that concierge, or toque that receptionist or secretary.

Ya know, if the same folks who DENY their counterparts an order acquisition commission also deny OUTSIDERS those discounts for the same reasons, then I would have to say, GOOD FOR YOU since, AT LEAST YOU ARE CONSISTENT!

Facts bee known, the people who need (earned) it the least, (funeral directors, caterers, order gatherers, etc., etc.) seem to be the people who GET IT THE MOST.

Otherwise, BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE! There is NO INTELLIGENT LIFE in those FLOWER SHOPS!

 

[Joe Mioux]

I don't give discounts..... period!

I also resent the implication that I am stupid , based on my WS affiliation.

Now, I am going back to work.

Joe

 

[Jerry]

Welcome TOTO

I know we're going to beat this DEAD HORSE to CHOP MEAT over the issue of a F2F earned sending commission (order acquisition commission), but come on folks, GIVE ME A BREAK!

For those of you with the OLD CLUB MENTALITY, you have NO PROBLEM sending or filling at NET 71% (less another -10%) with all those DUES and FEES on top of you.

But HEY, not going to grant that 20% to another REAL FLORIST who is your conterpart and does your doo!

Then on the flip side and for some of you, it's OK to give your funeral director a discount of 20% to 30% or your caterer or that concierge, or toque that receptionist or secretary.

Ya know, if the same folks who DENY their counterparts an order acquisition commission also deny OUTSIDERS those discounts for the same reasons, then I would have to say, GOOD FOR YOU since, AT LEAST YOU ARE CONSISTENT!

Facts bee known, the people who need (earned) it the least, (funeral directors, caterers, order gatherers, etc., etc.) seem to be the people who GET IT THE MOST.

Otherwise, BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE! There is NO INTELLIGENT LIFE in those FLOWER SHOPS!

To the WIRE FREE WORLD of insanity!!!!!!!!:hammer:

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

I don't give discounts..... period!

I also resent the implication that I am stupid , based on my WS affiliation.

Now, I am going back to work.

Joe

Ditto here, Joe. I've given up justifying my affiliation with W/S's to anyone...they just don't want to or can't see my reasons...so - whatever.

BTW - Mark - good question!
I simply do not give a discount on a discounted C-card order. Plain and simple. If you want to give me a direct order NO PROB! Won't charge you tax, will run the c-card for whatever you want me to fill the order for. Give me a $100 order, then THAT'S what I fill it for and charge you for. You want a commission - then take it out on your end before giving me the order.

- H.

 

[MANORVILLE]

Joe and Herb

Just curious as to what you thought about the S.E.C. posting by FTD dated 2/21/2007.

Nice to see that are publicly phasing us out.

 

[TOTO]

Who implied that Joe?

I don't give discounts..... period!
I also resent the implication that I am stupid , based on my WS affiliation.
Now, I am going back to work. Joe

I haven't read that implication anywhere on this board Joe.

As to who you wish to partner up with, regarding a WS, is certainly your business and I don't know of anyone on FC who implied that you're stupid.

What I pointed out was the Hypocrites who say one thing while DOO-ING ANOTHER!

They say; NO DISCOUNTS TO OTHER REAL FLORISTS unless they are a member of my CLUB and factor their outgoing through a WS just like we doo.

Then, and from the other hand, they're more than happy to stuff real money into the hands of NON FLORISTS just because they are getting BUSINESS from them, albeit as a third party vendor.

Don't make any cents to mee, but as a friend of mine always told me:

" Watch what the hands do, not what the mouth says! "

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

Joe and Herb

Just curious as to what you thought about the S.E.C. posting by FTD dated 2/21/2007.

Nice to see that are publicly phasing us out.

Dunno! Didn't have time to read it...was too busy today - we had kickin' Day!!!

Still going too! We're open till 9pm tonight for our local First Friday event. Runs monthly, and we get 70-100 folks in the store b/t 6 & 9pm. Very good... Oh, and I'm the CHAIR of the First Friday committee!

Focus on the LOCAL - baby! We USE the w/s to get orders out of town...sent 12 out today FTD alone. (called one TEL )
Gotta run..a CUSTOMER!!!! (yea!)

- H.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe and Herb

Just curious as to what you thought about the S.E.C. posting by FTD dated 2/21/2007.

Nice to see that are publicly phasing us out.

My response was to Merc # 90-xxxxAA. "Please terminate FTD membership." The rest of what I am about to say is a paraphrase. The amount of incoming business does not allow for a profit. I do not need the outgoing service as I have other services that provide this function.

Joe

 

[Joe Mioux]

I haven't read that implication anywhere on this board Joe.

As to who you wish to partner up with, regarding a WS, is certainly your business and I don't know of anyone on FC who implied that you're stupid.

What I pointed out was the Hypocrites who say one thing while DOO-ING ANOTHER!

They say; NO DISCOUNTS TO OTHER REAL FLORISTS unless they are a member of my CLUB and factor their outgoing through a WS just like we doo.

Then, and from the other hand, they're more than happy to stuff real money into the hands of NON FLORISTS just because they are getting BUSINESS from them, albeit as a third party vendor.

Don't make any cents to mee, but as a friend of mine always told me:

" Watch what the hands do, not what the mouth says! "

Toto:

The implication is generalized over your comments and everyother vocal WS-free florist.

I am sick of it, and I am in a real foul mood right now, because of this nonsense.

 

[CHR]

Joe -

I respect your opinion and think it's up to each of us to run our businesses as we see fit.

Why can't we just keep bumping old threads that rehash this same issue (there certainly are plenty of them. ) and talk about something productive.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Joe -

I respect your opinion and think it's up to each of us to run our businesses as we see fit.

Why can't we just keep bumping old threads that rehash this same issue (there certainly are plenty of them. ) and talk about something productive.

Isn't that what I said?

Joe

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Why not just LOP off the customers head while your at it.

Charge a fee and then LOP off a %, Mikey you should stay with the WS, it will be cheaper for your outgoing customers.

I'm glad that you said that......
I meant it as an eye opener of reflection!!

 

[TOTO]

Don't shoot the messenger Joe!

Toto:
The implication is generalized over your comments and every other vocal WS-free florist.
I am sick of it, and I am in a real foul mood right now, because of this nonsense.

WEE REAL FLORISTS are all in FOUL MOODS right now.

However, it's because of what has effected our floral industry regarding THIRD PARTY MIDDLEMEN as they insist on coming in between US WEE BEES and OUR CUSTOMERS for the SKIM.

Suffice it to say that, I've been waging this same battle against any and all of the 800 and FLORAL DOT.CON SKIMMERS since 1989 and while some folks did not heed my warnings back then, (i.e. Black Hat Chairmen, Presidents, and Board Members in the Old Member Owned and Operated Association), the proverbial VULTURE has come home to roost.

Anyway, not withstanding the reality of the damage which they have done to WEE REAL FLORISTS, both WSs are enablers and are more than willing to continue to SLEEP WITH OUR ENEMIES.

Amazing to me that, so many OUTSIDERS in the form of either COAT TAILORS, LEECHES, or PARASITES, insist on having a piece of our pie and without them having to DOO any of THE DOO!

Especially since, OUR PIE gets smaller every day!

One either sees the problem for what it is and acts accordingly, or simply chooses to remain in denial.

In either case, please don't shoot the messenger JOE!

There is truly HOPE, especially when we have FC and FLORISTDETECTIVE and the hard working folks in our floral industry who have become MAD AS HELL, and THEY AREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

 

[Joe Mioux]

In either case, please don't shoot the messenger JOE!

There is truly HOPE, especially when we have FC and FLORISTDETECTIVE and the hard working folks in our floral industry who have become MAD AS HELL, and THEY AREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

I make business decisions based on my financial and sales trends and records.

My problem with anti-WS florists is that they do not know the market, the financial details, or the business scope of other florists, and to make blanket assumptions that all WS business is evil or unprofitable is short-sighted.

Joe

 

[Connie]

Joe, even as a WS free florist, I have absolutely the greatest respect and highest regard for you and your opinions. If you found any offense in any of my posts, I do humbly apologize. I was simply stating my viewpoint. As Patty said (sort of), I don't mean to be a cheerleader. You are actually one of my favorite posters here. You are one of the best teachers/sharers on this board. Each of us operates our own shop in the way that he/she finds best, and that's as it should be.

 

[TOTO]

Oh well then Joe, nothing else can I say!

I make business decisions based on my financial and sales trends and records.
My problem with anti-WS florists is that they do not know the market, the financial details, or the business scope of other florists, and to make blanket assumptions that all WS business is evil or unprofitable is short-sighted.Joe

Absolutely Joe! You and every other REAL FLORIST must always make their own business decisions.

And YES Joe, I am NOT YOUR PROPHET! "]

A prophet can see into the future and since, the future warnings I made back in 1989 regarding the 800 and FLORAL DOT.CONs to include ALL DA SKIMMERS, OGs, and NON LOCAL PHONIES as well as the WSs sleeping with them, ARE ALREADY HERE in OUR PRESENT.

On another point, I was always a PRO WS FLORIST, but that was back in the day when, ALL ORDERS were transferred between ONE REAL FLORIST to ANOTHER.

That's when the BALANCE OF TRADE was FAIR and EQUITABLE between FLORISTS and we could all absorb the losses incurred by the FILLING with the profits incurred by the SENDING.

Since that is no longer true, this is when any WS becomes a LIABILITY rather than an ASSET on FLORIST'S spreadsheet.

Besides, I just can't partner up with any company who insists on going after MY CUSTOMERS with THEIR 100% SALES while expecting me to send em MO of MY MONEY.

 

[Tom Carlson]

That goes for pro-WS florists as well

I make business decisions based on my financial and sales trends and records.

My problem with anti-WS florists is that they do not know the market, the financial details, or the business scope of other florists, and to make blanket assumptions that all WS business is evil or unprofitable is short-sighted.

Joe

Joe
In all due respect for your knowledge and understanding, I would ask you a question or two.

1. Do you sanction what FTD and other WS are doing to its members? Y or N

2. If you do not sanction what the WS are doing to our retail side of the flower business, then:
A. Would you consider yourself an enabler? Y or N

3. If you agree that you and all others with your business policy are enablers, then:
B. What is your suggestion of how WS Florist Members combat the WS who take our membership fees and our local customers away from us.

4. My last question. If you did not get rebates, would your position remain the same as it is today? Y or N

I believe that we cannot impact the market dilema we all face with each florist acting on his own. Somehow there has to be a unified action. That is, unless you think the high fees we have and the loss of revenue is just fine.