F U Flowers

[sfox]

soul

After reading this string of posts the one thing I get from it is that most florists are willing to sell the soul, if the price is right.

If 800FLOWERS opened a store next door to them, they would be posting horror stories on how every florist should do something about ordergatherers.

If Proflowers takes out a full page ad in their Yellow Pages, uses a local phone number, that makes ordergathers evil.

If Tom Meola create 20 phoney florist shop listings in their town they want the government to step in.

But if any ordergatherer sends them an order, they say is "profitable" then ordergatherers are OK. The reasoning being that if I don't fill it some else will. PLEASE!

Ask yourself some of these kinds of questions........

Will filling an ordergatherer order make a big change in your retirement plans?

Will filling an ordergatherer order create a huge difference in your businesses profit picture for the month? Year?

Will filling an ordergatherer order give you the funding needed to market your business to the same degree they do? Newspaper ads, TV, Radio?

Will filling an ordergatherer order make the difference between you driving a Chevy or a BMW?

I post these questions because if you are willing to fill orgatherer orders then why @@@@@ when they hurt you?

Why cry on this board about how the wire services are killing our business.

Better yet why should anyone put any faith into what you post since you are willing to sell your soul if the price is right?

Am I being harsh, you bet ya. The reason being people post about how we need to hold a meeting somewhere this summer to discuss how to promote independent florists. We need to work on intergreting communication systems. We need to create an independent florist Brand. WHY? WHY? WHY? If we will sell our soul to these same people we say are hurting our business, then all the rest of the talking is just cow dung.

 

[Villageman]

villageman

Amen, sfox

 

[master J]

applause sfox

great post!sfox!!:musical:

 

[Chezbloom]

I could never have said it better.:thumbsup

 

[felicityflowers]

I would love to hear that people turn away business that is either not from their area or not going to their area

I do. When I get calls from out of the area I give them a number of a florist in the area they are sending to. Since I'm not a WS member taking orders from customers outside my area doesn't do me any good. I would have to charge the customer just for taking their order and sending it somewhere else. Isn't that one of the reasons why consumers are losing faith in our industry? There are too many hands in the cookie jar the way it is...why add one more?!

Do all of you who are so dead set against OG's accept orders from people who are from other states going to an area that is not your own??? What would be the prupose of having a website that is nationally available be if not???

No, I don't accept orders from OOA customers that are going to a location out of my delivery area. The purpose of having a nationally available website is notto gather orders, IMO, it is to gain orders from out of town customers that are coming into my local area INSTEAD of allowing dOG's to have them!

Yes Lori...we ALL accept orders on our sites from out of our direct delivery area going to areas we do not directly deliver to, and anyone that tells you they do not, is fibb"n...

I don't and I'm not fibb'n either. If another florist chooses to do so that's their choice... as long as they are open and honest about their location and they don't skim orders.

Those that continue to fill for the likes of 800Flowers, FTD.com F.U. Flowers, Just Flowers and more are only helping to perpetuate the monster. That's OK though, it's your choice, just don;t complain when the bottom completely falls out.

Amen.

But if any ordergatherer sends them an order, they say is "profitable" then ordergatherers are OK. The reasoning being that if I don't fill it some else will. PLEASE!

I couldn't agree more. If you knowingly fill skimmed orders don't beeotch and complain about dOGs.

If we will sell our soul to these same people we say are hurting our business, then all the rest of the talking is just cow dung.

Couldn't have said it better myself but, I don't think that the majority here intentionally fill for dOG's...or am I just that naive?

 

[CHR]

Well said, Sfox.

Rather than talking about OGs in general, I'd like to address filling for FU in specific.

#1 - Many of F U's orders originate at ProFlowers - you know, the guys that loudly tell the world we florists deliver old, dead, over-priced product. I simply refuse to align my local brand with PF - which is what you do when you fill one of their orders.

#2 - It's been a while since I've actually seen one of their orders (they have honored our do-not-send request finally) but when we did receive them, they were over-promised, undersold and read like complaints waiting to happen. Lika a Dz. roses arranged for $35 or a vase of Casa Blancas for $40.

I am not satisfied to fill those 'orders to value' and then push any complaints back on them. We choose to fill, our name's on a card and either we deliver something we're proud of or we don't deliver at all. No one 'makes' us fill orders. We do it by choice so passing the buck back adbicates responsibility for our own decisions.

 

[Jerry]

Heather, your last question is everything S Fox was eluding to.

The answer is, "which way is the wind blowing today"?

We have lost some very good posters thru the years because of all the flip flopping on these boards.

The wind will never be in the right direction for a national movement.

 

[Bigted]

In my not so humble opinion, it's a waste of time to whine about OGs on this forum. At various times, me and several other posters have tried to muster support against the most egregious OGs and tactics. All of those efforts failed--and failed big.

For me, I'm left with cutting out the worst offenders, and dealing with the rest. Eventually, the scales will tip and we'll stop taking them all--

 

[lori042499]

Heather, your last question is everything S Fox was eluding to.

The answer is, "which way is the wind blowing today"?

We have lost some very good posters thru the years because of all the flip flopping on these boards.

The wind will never be in the right direction for a national movement.

The flip flopping is only because some of us do fill our WS orders because we have to to pay our rent. Whether we are new to the area and using it as a crutch until we can hold our own or there just isn't enough flower orders to go around. I have said this before and I will say it again. I may not like what the Major OGs do to get their business and they may be hurting the industry, but until I hear of an across the board boycott of all WS orders I feel that I cannot give up the profitable dollars to my local competition who will fill these orders.



Felicity,
Florists have been taking orders from locals for out of town areas for many, many years. They have been taking a service fee for many, many years. The service fee covers the time it takes to take the order, phone it out and deal with any complications should thy arise. It is a convenience charge of sorts. Years ago it was more difficult to find a florist outside your immediate area. the internet has changed this fact. Now it has made a free for all. The OG have found this to be a strong money making opportunity and a weak point with most florists. If it wasn't for TF and FTD the majority of florists would not even have a website never mind try to compete for what the OGs have taken advantage of.

You choose not to have a WS affiliation and that is fine, but how many orders do you get from your website that you freely give out the names of florists in other areas. Where do you get the names of other florists? Is this time you spend not worth a service charge to take care of their order and make sure it gets done right? How many local orders do you get from your website and does it make the website a profitable tool?

Don't think that I am beating you up, I am not. I commend you for doing everything that you think is good for your business and being true to what you want. Maybe in 3-4 years I will be ready to tell bunches of my friends who live far away that I can not help them as I always have. but for now I take every order from my website or over the phone from wherever the come from and handle them in my own special way as I take every wirin order and take care of it in my very own special way(and people do notice) I have lured away many a local customer because they liked what they got from my shop better than another through a WS.

 

[lori042499]

One more note on the who to fill for issue. There are no easy answers to any of the OG questions. If there were this chat board probably would not exist like it does. I think that some people have really great ideas and i also think that someday someone will figure out how to change the face of our business. Until then there will always be differing opinions and business models will change sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse. We are all in business for the same reason, to make money. The way we go about it may be different, but it is all our purpose. Not many people strike it rich being a florist, even big florists struggle from time to time. I don't expect to get rich doing this. I do this because it is what I love. I love making flower arrangements whether it be a 10.00 budvase or a 600.00 exotic arragement. After 22 years, i still walk through the flower market and marvel at the smells and sights even though the lilac are exactly the same as last year and the fresh local grown snaps still smell as fresh as they did last week, i still feel the need to bury my nose in them and take a big whiff. This is why I do this. If I fail at being a business owner, I will get a job as a designer and stay put in the business that I love!!!!

 

[felicityflowers]

Felicity,
You choose not to have a WS affiliation and that is fine, but how many orders do you get from your website that you freely give out the names of florists in other areas. Where do you get the names of other florists?

If it's an order that I can't deliver then I give the customer a name of a florist in that area every time. With the internet it literally takes me less than five minutes.

Is this time you spend not worth a service charge to take care of their order and make sure it gets done right?

What if I charged a local customer a "finders fee" for telling them where to find a product that I don't carry. Sounds silly, doesn't it?

Now, with that said...I do charge for my time if I must take the order from a local customer and send it to another florist. Why? Because I am held responsible if something goes wrong with that order. If it doesn't get sent, it's the wrong thing and if the receiving florist refuses to refund the money then I must refund the customers cash. Maybe those situations don't happen with a WS but, since I am not a member, I have no idea.

How many local orders do you get from your website and does it make the website a profitable tool?

I get quite a few new local customers weekly who have seen my website and liked something that they saw and, to me, that's just a bonus. My website isn't for local customers. It's for customers that are out of town looking to place an order in my area. It costs me $10.00 a month to have my website, obviously it is a very profitable tool. If I only got one order from the site each month it would more than pay for itself.

Don't think that I am beating you up, I am not.

I don't feel like you are beating me up Lori...I have a much thicker skin that that

Okay, I guess this is a serious case of thread drift!! Sorry Cathy.

 

[sfox]

Lori

The flip flopping is only because some of us do fill our WS orders because we have to to pay our rent. Whether we are new to the area and using it as a crutch until we can hold our own or there just isn't enough flower orders to go around. I have said this before and I will say it again. I may not like what the Major OGs do to get their business and they may be hurting the industry, but until I hear of an across the board boycott of all WS orders I feel that I cannot give up the profitable dollars to my local competition who will fill these orders.

Lori,

First let me state that my shop does fill wire orders. We fill every wire order that comes into our shop if it comes from a real florist. We do not fill orders from ordergatherers, period. We fill every real florist wire order at 100% just as if they were a walk in customer paying cash.

Second, there must have been at least 50 strings of posts on this board from people like Mikey and Eric that have addressed the profitibility of filling wire orders. Some posted spreadsheets showing how much money is lost by filling wire orders.

Third, you say you fill this wire orders because you need to pay the rent. Well, if you have read those posts, and for the most part those posters were correct in their number crunching, then the only way you can make money filling wire in orders, is NUMBER ONE, either be sending out a lot of outgoing wire orders or NUMBER TWO you are skimming the order by underfilling that order.

Why do I fill wire order from real florists at 100% when I know that I am losing money of every one of those orders? That is because I send out a lot of wire orders and my hope is that the filling florist at the other end is doing the same for my customer. If both parties fill like I have stated, then maybe we florists can convince the consumer to buy only from florists.

My biggest reason for not filling ordergatherer orders is that when I need someone to fill an order, they can't help me. A wire service is supposed to be a two way street. Too many florists only want to live on only one side of that street and it doesn't work that way.

PS, there are a few real florists that we won't fill for because they act like ordergatherers when they send out their orders, hoping to make a killing on both sides of the street.

 

[lori042499]

Lori,

First let me state that my shop does fill wire orders. We fill every wire order that comes into our shop if it comes from a real florist. We do not fill orders from ordergatherers, period. We fill every real florist wire order at 100% just as if they were a walk in customer paying cash.

Second, there must have been at least 50 strings of posts on this board from people like Mikey and Eric that have addressed the profitibility of filling wire orders. Some posted spreadsheets showing how much money is lost by filling wire orders.

Third, you say you fill this wire orders because you need to pay the rent. Well, if you have read those posts, and for the most part those posters were correct in their number crunching, then the only way you can make money filling wire in orders, is NUMBER ONE, either be sending out a lot of outgoing wire orders or NUMBER TWO you are skimming the order by underfilling that order.

Why do I fill wire order from real florists at 100% when I know that I am losing money of every one of those orders? That is because I send out a lot of wire orders and my hope is that the filling florist at the other end is doing the same for my customer. If both parties fill like I have stated, then maybe we florists can convince the consumer to buy only from florists.

My biggest reason for not filling ordergatherer orders is that when I need someone to fill an order, they can't help me. A wire service is supposed to be a two way street. Too many florists only want to live on only one side of that street and it doesn't work that way.

PS, there are a few real florists that we won't fill for because they act like ordergatherers when they send out their orders, hoping to make a killing on both sides of the street.

I too fill all my orders to the full value. I under no circumstances skim anything from any orders. I shop for the best value on flowers. I do not buy crap but I do look for the cheapest possible price on nice fresh flowers so that I can make my wire orders profitable for myself.I have quite a few corporate clients and out of state friends that I send out of town orders for. I can appreciate your reasons for not filling for sending only, there are quite a few that I will not fill for because I have had problems with them. as soon as a problem crops up they go on the list. There are so many of them it is hard to keep up.

Let me make this very clear, I do not market to or go after business outside my direct area. I do not have that kind of money. I do however take any orders that come over the phone and my website from wherever thay come from to whereever they are going. I do select florists that are quality florists whereever I send them and I do reciprocate to florists that have sent to me provided I like their information. I do fill for any order I can make money on, even if it is just a few bucks above cost.

That being said from you flowers has not given me any problems as of yet that i know of so I fill for them until they get on my bad side. If I don't someone else will. Their 2-3 orders a month is not going to kill my business. They are not aggressivly advertising in my city. I do not like the fact that the WS allow OG to exist, but I will take the few bucks I can from them so sally down the street from me does not get it. That is business. I need a wire service to send orders and if I am going to pay the fees to have them I may as well fill and get some money that way too.

The only thing I flip flop on is the fact that I do not like OGs but I fill for them until they cause me some sort of grief. Some florists are just as bad to deal with and they get cut off, too. The day someone tells me that no one will be filling for the OGs then I will stop until then it is every man for himself in the battle of business.

 

[master J]

1 florist at a time!

LORI said---The day someone tells me that no one will be filling for the OGs then I will stop until then it is every man for himself in the battle of business.[/QUOTE]


This is the problem, too many florists won't do anything until there is a major movement!

We can make a difference 1 florist at a time, you just need to stick to it, and refuse those og orders.....

Do you vote ? A lot of people don't vote, with the attitude that, oh, my vote won't make a difference......it kind of reminds me of what you are saying....

 

[Rhonda]

Every show I go to, every design seminar, class I take, I try to educate one if not more shop owners! as well as their "manager". The last show I was at, I was talking to one friend, got quite a crowd around us as we were speaking about FU, FST, Mr. Meola's phony phone listings, etc. By the time we were done, there was quite a bit of interest.
I know alot of you don't attend Teleflora seminars (great networking BTW as well as educational) or State Association shows (there doesn't seem to be as many active associations as I think there should be :hammer: ) Even greater networking there.......But that is where we as anti OG fillers can educate our fellow florists. And it may seem the slow way to go, but in this area I am attempting to fill in as many as I can as to what a shop is actually paying vs what they are getting by filling those orders (or any ws orders) especially in the areas that the small mom & pops are servicing. If you're not a large sender, you're filling............yeah, you're getting a check but how much have you spent to get that check?
Okay done........(for now)
:soapbox:

 

[lori042499]

LORI said---The day someone tells me that no one will be filling for the OGs then I will stop until then it is every man for himself in the battle of business.

This is the problem, too many florists won't do anything until there is a major movement!

We can make a difference 1 florist at a time, you just need to stick to it, and refuse those og orders.....

Do you vote ? A lot of people don't vote, with the attitude that, oh, my vote won't make a difference......it kind of reminds me of what you are saying....[/quote]


That is kind of what I am saying except this here directly affects my money. There are far too many small shops that will fill these orders and take what money could be mine than I can control. If I knew that tomorrow noone in my delivery area would be filling these orders, I would be right in line to teach them a lesson.

Last year, the immigrant population in MA decided that they were going to teach all of us Americans a big lesson. They decided that they would have a walk out to let us see how much we needed them in the workforce and how much of a voice they had in our communities. They all took the day off and guess what no one cared. It didn't affect anyone, it did not make any difference in anyone's life. It only affected their community with loss of pay and revenue because this is the world we live in today. When people call in sick to work they get more people on to do the work or someone works extra hours, one's loss is another's gain. I am using this as an example and do not neccesarily care about this subject one way or another just using it because it fits this subject in a different way.

 

[CHR]

Lori -

I hope you don't think anyone is picking on you. Filling incomings works for some and has been disasterous for many others.

Those of us that have been around this board have had years of conversations with new/newish owners who come here to say how they love getting checks from WS and how that's what's keeping them in business.

Some of those same florists then later ask us to help them sell or close their shops because they're in debt up to their eyeballs.

Yes, there are exceptions - but they are few and far between.

My husband has a basic class in session right now and one of the students, a gal opening a new shop, has already decided to join two wire services and purchase a WS POS system. He asked her, "Why would you join two services?" and she replied "Because I want to." :hammer:

This class will get my floral math lesson next week. But I can only teach to students open and willing to learn.

 

[sfox]

Lori

We can all understand your financial pain. But the real question you have to ask yourself.

If I am dependent on those ordergatherer orders to pay my bills, when if ever will I be able to stand on my own two feet? Filling those orders seems like the easy way out but really maybe your time should be spent more on getting more local orders. Marketing your shop, not putting in your hard work making the corporation..ie orgatherer..look good. Think about it. You do a great job on the order. But the sender says to themselves, wow I really got a nice arrangement when I ordered thru corporation X.

I can't remember how many times, back when I was FTD, customers would make remarks about how FTD was a florist's boss and that is why they ordered from them because FTD told florists what to do. So while you feel you are getting ahead filling those orders, really you are just falling further behind.

 

[Bigted]

Lori -

Those of us that have been around this board have had years of conversations with new/newish owners who come here to say how they love getting checks from WS and how that's what's keeping them in business.

I'm going out on a limb here and say "If you are getting a check from your wire service, look twice at your business model" You need to be sending them a check every month, and I'm not talking about your membership fee.

Janice Joplin said it: "Freedom is just another word for nothin left to lose" I'm not sure what that means but it seems to fit here.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

#2 - It's been a while since I've actually seen one of their orders (they have honored our do-not-send request finally) but when we did receive them, they were over-promised, undersold and read like complaints waiting to happen. Lika a Dz. roses arranged for $35 or a vase of Casa Blancas for $40.

I am not satisfied to fill those 'orders to value' and then push any complaints back on them. We choose to fill, our name's on a card and either we deliver something we're proud of or we don't deliver at all. No one 'makes' us fill orders. We do it by choice so passing the buck back adbicates responsibility for our own decisions.

After reading this post, on a hunch, I took the 3 minutes and looked to SEE how many orders I got from F U Flowers...only 6 in the month of May... I suppose my refusing so many over time has lowered my 'ranking' or whatever...

Anywho...much of this is a mute point b/c I figure the wire service as we know it now will have gone the way of the Do-do in 10 years... We'll see how it's done then...

MEANWHILE...I am positioning myself for the FUTURE...

- H.