First thing this morning TF makes me ill..long rant...

lori042499

lori042499

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May 3, 2006
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Melrose, Massachusetts, United States
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I just got a marketing call this morning that made me ill....

Some of you may know that TF members will be getting a whole new selection guide, this is good we need one, I guess..at least it will be updated...now those of us with TF websites are getting website make overs, again not a bad thing...

Now this is the part that makes me a little ill...I have not gotten to see the new book or the selections in the new book...I do know there are 500 designs in the new book made up of new arrangemnets and some best sellers with a makeover...OK here comes the awful part, some of the new arrangements are made in 11 new TF specific containers repeated through 20 or so designs each, the containers range from 5.99 to 7.99 in 24 packs before delivery and delivery runs about a dollar a piece...some are very specific, some are less specific but will be hard to fudge if you need to...now 11 containers times 24 is 264 containers at and average of 8 bucks a container is 2112 bucks plus the 200 or so dollar book...Is TF nuts wanting me to make a 2300 dollar investment in arrangements I don't know will sell, in October probably the hardest month to buy anything unforeseen in, with it all hinging on my website and my membership dollars...Who are the trying to save?? I feel like the 800-flowers thing is happening all over again...I don't want to buy their containers, I want to be able to buy my containers locally, in the amount I want to buy, when I want to buy them, I don't want to pay shipping for anything, I want to get it myself...

Am I off base here, should I be mad at this, they really are making it very hard to keep control of your own store...but thanks TF for making it very very clear, that your brand continues to be the most important thing, even when it come to forcing your brand into our stores...when many of us don't want it there completely...

I am my own boss, I make the decisions at MY store...and the decision to let you go TF is getting glaringly more simple, now if I can just figure out how to get support for what could end up being a 14000.00 paper weight....AAAARRRRGHHH! I am so frustrated with this...
 
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Yuck! Not to add to your pain but there is another thing to consider - you'll have to cost every single arrangement and adjust the prices for your area for both the selection guide and your TF online selection.
Emily
 
Am I off base here, should I be mad at this, they really are making it very hard to keep control of your own store...but thanks
TF for making it very very clear, that your brand continues to be the most important thing, even when it come to forcing your brand into our stores...when many of us don't want it there completely......[/QUOTE]

I would get up on the "soapbox" but there's no room. Loir, keep preachin......
 
OK So a few minutes ago I decided to get on flower chat and ask for some help. SO what is the first thing i see when getting on is this thread, EXACTLYwhat I was going to write about, EVERYTHING that Lori wrote about TF. I belong to TF & Bloom. It takes me a VERY LONG TIME to make a decision, but I had already made a previous decision to quit 1 of the wire services, I just was not totally sure which one but I was leaning towards TF. The main thing holding me onto TF is my website with them. I have a website with flower shop network & I am also working on an independent one through websystems that sells Visual Ticket which I use in my store. People seem to really like the TF site & TF keeps me on the front page of the search engines, on the top or near the top, so it is scary to quit them BUT I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH THEM & ALL THE FEES & CONTAINERS & EVERYTHING! I THINK I AM GOING TO HAVE A FIT! LOL! Anybody want to join me? :) I've finally make a decision to quit TF Jan 1st 2011. I do not know how that is going to affect my placement on the search engines. Does anyone have any info on that? Also the 1 question I was going to ask EVERYONE is: If you were going to quit 1 wire service & keep 1, which one would you keep & which one would you quit, and why? I would appreciate all of your input.
 
Funny thing is that I chose to keep TF and get rid of Bloomnet...The reason was because I was tired of having to carry 800's crap and not my own, but now I feel as though I ma being kind of force fed tf containers...I like their containers but I also like to be incontrol of my inventory and buy things at a good price and sales, i change up my vases all the time...This is where I get so darn frustrated with the web and all of its glory...I can give much better value to my customers if they just leave it up to me to be the judge of what is priced right and looks great together...rather than buy some unrealistic picture from a webpage that may or may not be in season, available, good or otherwise...

The artist in me has had enpugh with paperwork, owning a business, decisions and copy catting someone elses crap arrangements...just having a bad day, hopefully my attitude will adjust later...

Got my mom-in-law coming in today to see if we can get a handle on my paperwork, budgets, bills and such..I am giving this ownership thing one more round of holidays, if I cannot get a handle on it all, up for sale it goes...
 
I have a very good friend who is w/s rep and he's told me on numerous occasions that "alot" of profit" is made on the container side of the business. Example, we have to ordedr holiday (if we buy) buy the 20th of August. They in turn add 7% to the total ordered and then they call you up and say "we're almost" out. The Florist who are on "floral crack" (another form) then buy until they are "SOLD OUT". So they go into the holiday with one "platform" already sold out".........and profit accounted for..........the florists have to sell what we buy and try to match all the industry expectations, predictions, etc. to our stock. If a "blizzard" came the week before Christmas, no sympathy would come out way for the return of not sold items. I have 2 now, but by Dec. 10 I will be done to one..........and I don't know which one.
 
FANCIES said:
The main thing holding me onto TF is my website with them. I have a website with flower shop network & I am also working on an independent one through websystems that sells Visual Ticket which I use in my store. People seem to really like the TF site & TF keeps me on the front page of the search engines, on the top or near the top, so it is scary to quit them BUT I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH THEM & ALL THE FEES & CONTAINERS & EVERYTHING! I THINK I AM GOING TO HAVE A FIT! LOL! Anybody want to join me? :) I've finally make a decision to quit TF Jan 1st 2011. I do not know how that is going to affect my placement on the search engines. Does anyone have any info on that? Also the 1 question I was going to ask EVERYONE is: If you were going to quit 1 wire service & keep 1, which one would you keep & which one would you quit, and why? I would appreciate all of your input.
Click to expand...

OK, I was with the same two WS. Quit 1800 first because there was no profit in filling their orders. Then I quit TF in May, as I saw the new book out there on the horizon and knew what it was going to mean. It was scary leaving TF because they held my website and CCs. After moving my merchant account to a local vendor, I moved my website to FSN so that I could continue to relay orders (mostly for those customers who can't do it themselves). We did notice a drop in placement with the search engines, but we also changed our domain name with a couple of months overlap. Not sure how that affected our placement (was hoping to get an answer on that at last month's webinar that didn't happen). As long as you have FSN website, not sure why you would keep either WS. My stress and frustration is at a bare minimum since leaving the WS - I'm sure you'll find that too. Good luck with your decisions.
 
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The only real reason to buy wire service containers is (1) that you want to fill their incoming junk, (2) you can't get better deals some place else, (3) that your customer beat the doors down to get them (i hear this happens in some markets) and (4) "their style" fits "YOUR STORE".

Hard to justify over paying for inferior quality, style, design.
 
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Joanne makes a valid point........No one SAYS you MUST buy those containers.......Even more......No one SAYS you have to use those containers JUST for the illustrated designs.

If you do not want to carry the items in question.......In that selection guide......Write over them.....NOT AVAILABLE or SOLD OUT or something like that.

If they start appearing on youir website..........then raise HELL with tech and FORCE them to take those images off.........and do that each time they try to sneak them back on.

FTD tried that every so often with our old website at the shop where I used to work...........After hearing ME ( I managed the site ) enough.......they stopped trying to sneak stuff in on me.
 
I am going to find out if I can OPT OUT of the new selection guide... I don't want it and the expense of it plus you can get the recipes on my teleflora.com.
 
Why pony up to the WS. You don't need them for zip.

All they do is nuture the OG, and dump on fill florists.

The average profit on a WS order is $10 or less. At the end of the day your designer will take home more money than you will on the profits the designer earned you on all your filled orders.

You'll have the burden of all the additional administrative work as well.

Check out my little free spreadsheet in my sig. You can evaluate WS statements and see if you are making money form WS.

It was also mentioned you have to buy all the WS vases, because they promote them on all WS photos for yours or their site.

You can analyze the numbers until you are blue faced. The OG are making all the profits.
 
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To add insult to injury, going over my statements yesterday, the month of june cost me in membership fees, tech fees and foolishness 50.00 per order, incoming and outgoing..it was a really bad month..My mom-in-law, took one look and was like are you crazy, why do you still have this service....now she is going to go over all of them and we will really be seeing the forest for the trees...OH God, well the way I feel about it is if I want to thrive I need to cut the money suck out of my business...I cannot do it myself, so she will help. Not that I am stupid, but when you are always running behind on paper work you certainly cannot be 100% on top of it...

Looking into pos software today and making an exit plan...sooner than I thought but, if I wait much longer the levy might just break.

My hubby's only concern is that without a wire service I will look small...any thoughts on that?

I told him that people really don't identify with the WS anymore and as long as I get the orders out still without a hem or a haw, they won't be the wiser...
 
FANCIES said:
I have a website with flower shop network & I am also working on an independent one through websystems that sells Visual Ticket which I use in my store. People seem to really like the TF site & TF keeps me on the front page of the search engines, on the top or near the top, so it is scary to quit them... I do not know how that is going to affect my placement on the search engines. Does anyone have any info on that?
Click to expand...

Simply put, as we're all in the mode of speaking our minds in this thread, TF web sites are terrible for SEO. The only ones that are worse are the IFN sites (criminally bad), and the FloristBoard sites. Even the Bloomnet sites are better than TF, and FTD beats them both if you have to have a WS site. You are better off with an independent site, but just being indie does not automatically mean better.

conchandler said:
I moved my website to FSN so that I could continue to relay orders (mostly for those customers who can't do it themselves). We did notice a drop in placement with the search engines, but we also changed our domain name with a couple of months overlap. Not sure how that affected our placement (was hoping to get an answer on that at last month's webinar that didn't happen).
Click to expand...

FSN does ok with their SEO, but if you changed domains (why??) that would definitely impact your rankings.

RWK said:
If they start appearing on youir website..........then raise HELL with tech and FORCE them to take those images off.........and do that each time they try to sneak them back on.

FTD tried that every so often with our old website at the shop where I used to work...........After hearing ME ( I managed the site ) enough.......they stopped trying to sneak stuff in on me.
Click to expand...

Sadly, this is common practice. In talking with people at the TN State Convention this past weekend, it's still a problem for WS sites. Both TF & FTD operate on a system where every site is essentially the same, and they can push down updates to thousands of users at once. It shouldn't override the customizations, but it does. Also, this adds products to your site that you wouldn't normally sell. It's not malicious, just a consequence of their system.
 
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lori042499 said:
My hubby's only concern is that without a wire service I will look small...any thoughts on that?
Click to expand...
No worries..... the consumer is smarter than we give them credit for... many I talk to have known the "game" for years, and all are thankful that we took ourselves out of the "middle" and that they are getting full value...
 
lori042499 said:
some of the new arrangements are made in 11 new TF specific containers repeated through 20 or so designs each, the containers range from 5.99 to 7.99 in 24 packs before delivery and delivery runs about a dollar a piece
Click to expand...
The price points of the containers would make it difficult to generate profits on LOCAL orders, let alone incomings. Let's do the math...

Even the lowest priced item - 5.99 plus freight - will cost $7. On a $50 order (average order value for many stores), our target COGS for the entire design (hardgoods, flowers and accessories) would range from 27% to 30% or $13.50 to $15. That container would represent half the target value and leave far less dollars for flowers than the typical $50 design. Most of our customers would be disappointed at the lack of flower volume and/or size. So we would be tempted to stuff in more flowers to meet the consumer's expectation - and that's a quick way to kill profits.

Our target cost for the container and accessories used in a $50 arrangement would be about $3.50. Some customers do appreciate keepsakes and are willing to spend more to get them. Are they the norm? For everyday work? We'll see...
 
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CHR said:
The price points of the containers would make it difficult to generate profits on LOCAL orders, let alone incomings. Let's do the math...

Even the lowest priced item - 5.99 plus freight - will cost $7. On a $50 order (average order value for many stores), our target COGS for the entire design (hardgoods, flowers and accessories) would range from 27% to 30% or $13.50 to $15. That container would represent half the target value and leave far less dollars for flowers than the typical $50 design. Most of our customers would be disappointed at the lack of flower volume and/or size. So we would be tempted to stuff in more flowers to meet the consumer's expectation - and that's a quick way to kill profits.

Our target cost for the container and accessories used in a $50 arrangement would be about $3.50. Some customers do appreciate keepsakes and are willing to spend more to get them. Are they the norm? For everyday work? We'll see...
Click to expand...



This was my reaction to the sales woman on the phone....The only place I use a 15.00 container is weddings and very specialty items, that customers demand...most people I deal with come to my flower shop to buy flowers, many want me to whip up a specialty custom design for 25-30 dollars, it can be done and is done everyday, but I tell you my containers never ever cost me 7 or 8 dollars ever...it just takes way to much volume out of the normal 30-60 dollar design....If I was doing 75-125 dollar designs for the home every day it would be a different story...then on top of it, all of these containers are smallish, 4 inch openings like regular typical teleflora holiday crap...so they are made for small arrangements that feature the container, my customers would rather an understated container featuring the flowers and/or techniques used, I tend to like to ramp up my designs with techniques rather than expensive containers, that is what wow's the consumer any run of the mill florist can upgrade the container to bring a small arrangement to a higher value, it takes skill to wow them.
 
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