Isn't it there already? Wasn't it the lack of 'meaningful investment' that caused the loss of a staggering amount of orders just two weeks ago?
FTD Amendment to S3
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prestonway
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if I'd buy, but...
Always want to know WHY...before I totally go off the deep end.
Why are ALL these people selling at the same time? Grand Master Plan to broaden the share base to the public? Lock-in a profit while the share price is up?
Why NOW? So close after V-DAY, but it must have been in the works for weeks. Crappy timing tho
Looking at it as a potential investor and not a member florist, FTD's future is painted in a glorious light as leaders in almost every category, with a fantastic future.
Why then are the insiders selling-off half their stock...???
If they are reducing their investment, why should I invest?
Always want to know WHY...before I totally go off the deep end.
Why are ALL these people selling at the same time? Grand Master Plan to broaden the share base to the public? Lock-in a profit while the share price is up?
Why NOW? So close after V-DAY, but it must have been in the works for weeks. Crappy timing tho
Looking at it as a potential investor and not a member florist, FTD's future is painted in a glorious light as leaders in almost every category, with a fantastic future.
Why then are the insiders selling-off half their stock...???
If they are reducing their investment, why should I invest?
Joe Mioux
Well-Known Member
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
Put a little article on my Newsvine Feed about this SEC filing...
Hopefully some of you can link to it, and boost it's relevancy.
Thanks to the other FC member who helped get the article done in short order.
Hopefully some of you can link to it, and boost it's relevancy.
Thanks to the other FC member who helped get the article done in short order.
Eric S
Demoted Webmaster
A must read for all flower shop owners!!!
Good reading and great feedback from everyone.
All of the information needed is out there and I don't understand why it is so hard to make the right decision. This company has no intention of doing your work anymore (Advertising & Bringing In Customers For Its Members).
But don't be fooled
Its the same for any florist to florist sending and recieving company. The shops that don't get it (relying on incoming orders to keep their business going) will be in serious trouble. It will be the ones that know how to promote their own business by marketing their own name and branding.
800FLOWERS IS GOING TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING PEOPLE!!!!!
Good reading and great feedback from everyone.
All of the information needed is out there and I don't understand why it is so hard to make the right decision. This company has no intention of doing your work anymore (Advertising & Bringing In Customers For Its Members).
But don't be fooled
Its the same for any florist to florist sending and recieving company. The shops that don't get it (relying on incoming orders to keep their business going) will be in serious trouble. It will be the ones that know how to promote their own business by marketing their own name and branding.
800FLOWERS IS GOING TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING PEOPLE!!!!!
YOU ASKED AND THE ANSWER IS: THERE ARE NOT MANY FLORISTS IN THEIR RIGHT MIND.
It appears to me that the "florist who are in their right mind" are monitoring forums like FlowerChat and should already know what FTD is doing. what is going on. But the florists who particiape on this and other forums are very few in number.
I feel that FTD is playing very much on the fact that the vast majority of florists are standing out in the dark, have no clue as to what they are enabling and the longer florists are kept in the dark, the better it is for FTD.
There is a huge number of florists who do not have a clue as to what our/their destany is. Maybe that is good because there are too many florists anyway. I sure don't like to see anyone "hurt" but it will/is happening.
Unfortunately, we cannot use the media that is visible to the florist trade to alert the florists who don't know. THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE MESSAGE, THEY REMAIN CLUELESS.
Does anyone know how we can communicate with the clueless?
What would it take for FlowerChat to do a Fax Broadcast to a data base of florists? There has to be a 25,000 florist data base somewhere.
I sure wish I had the resources to do something. I can speak [see footnote] to groups, but where are the groups that want to listen?
Tom Carlson.
[see footnote] I have been active in Toastmasters for 38 years and competed in the semi-finals of the 1992 Toastmasters World Public Speaking Contest. That placed me in the final 27 contestants in the world of public speaking. Give me an audience and I can speak!
MANORVILLE
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- Oct 2, 2006
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Couldn't agree more, especially about the 1800 statement.
I think though, but am shaky on this position, that if people want to dump
the WS outright and make the temporary jump over to 800, it may buy them some time, as 800 will not be foolish enough to jump on the FTD bandwagon for a while.
Would be suicide for them at the moment.
They are enjoying all the controversy and are signing in record numbers.
All they have to do right now is sit back and watch the chaos, and run all the way to the bank.
But..............the future however...........is a very different story.
Boss
Mark Smith
Posted a comment on NewsVine. Please critique when you have the time.
Also FTD is not responding still !!!!!!!!!
No surprise !
I think though, but am shaky on this position, that if people want to dump
the WS outright and make the temporary jump over to 800, it may buy them some time, as 800 will not be foolish enough to jump on the FTD bandwagon for a while.
Would be suicide for them at the moment.
They are enjoying all the controversy and are signing in record numbers.
All they have to do right now is sit back and watch the chaos, and run all the way to the bank.
But..............the future however...........is a very different story.
Boss
Mark Smith
Posted a comment on NewsVine. Please critique when you have the time.
Also FTD is not responding still !!!!!!!!!
No surprise !
prestonway
Well-Known Member
It's now a day later, with two major announcements coming forward regarding FTD's offering and the $500/month fee for "dual citizenship".
Call these events "accelerants", or things that are only going to speed up the natural progression (contraction) of our industry.
The more I think about this, the more I like it!
I have always said that survival is dependant on one of three things...you are either a Big Filler, an Order Gatherer, or have a strong Local market. You can play at being all three, but chances are that you have a strength in one of these areas.
As a big filler/order gatherer, you are dependant on one of the three wire services. There is no way to accumulate incoming orders or to send orders without them.
You might not like these recent events, but never forget...they are both well thought out business decisions with no room for emotions.
But if you really don't like these events, please get out now.
With fewer florists, both the filling & gathering sides will become further concentrated. Those that are left however, will necessarily be stronger due to less competition.
Call it economies of scale.
I guess "if you're not with me, you must be against me"...so either stay with the club or go it alone & build your local market.
But like FTD, make it a business decision & not one based on emotions.
The time for hobbyists, newbies, & unprofessionals is now officially dead.
...just my opinion, now go at me if you will...
Call these events "accelerants", or things that are only going to speed up the natural progression (contraction) of our industry.
The more I think about this, the more I like it!
I have always said that survival is dependant on one of three things...you are either a Big Filler, an Order Gatherer, or have a strong Local market. You can play at being all three, but chances are that you have a strength in one of these areas.
As a big filler/order gatherer, you are dependant on one of the three wire services. There is no way to accumulate incoming orders or to send orders without them.
You might not like these recent events, but never forget...they are both well thought out business decisions with no room for emotions.
But if you really don't like these events, please get out now.
With fewer florists, both the filling & gathering sides will become further concentrated. Those that are left however, will necessarily be stronger due to less competition.
Call it economies of scale.
I guess "if you're not with me, you must be against me"...so either stay with the club or go it alone & build your local market.
But like FTD, make it a business decision & not one based on emotions.
The time for hobbyists, newbies, & unprofessionals is now officially dead.
...just my opinion, now go at me if you will...
Amen...You have a firm grasp on the future of the floral industry.
MANORVILLE
New Member
- Oct 2, 2006
- 1,607
- 337
- 0
- State / Prov
- NEW YORK
Unfortunately, we cannot use the media that is visible to the florist trade to alert the florists who don't know. THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE MESSAGE, THEY REMAIN CLUELESS.
Does anyone know how we can communicate with the clueless?
What would it take for FlowerChat to do a Fax Broadcast to a data base of florists? There has to be a 25,000 florist data base somewhere.
I sure wish I had the resources to do something. I can speak [see footnote] to groups, but where are the groups that want to listen?
Tom Carlson.
Interesting reading Tom,
Getting people to see the big picture and the light at the end of the tunnel is quite the task, especially if there's no easy way to reach them.
Been working on an email directory but it's going to take a lot of time.
A fax directory is another good idea, but will also take a great deal of time.
The problem is the man/woman power to make it happen, but I do believe that a comprehensive informational network must be established and maintained. Too many florists are uninformed.
We know, we were among the unlucky group.
Sucked in by the " Two Legged Rats " that now don't return any calls.
I feel for many of the small shop owners that have a tremendous passion for the industry and what they do. Many will be unfairly forced out.
Guess that's in part the reason that I am so committed to getting something organized. I just can't justify or condone what has been done to these small shop owners.
In conversation, earlier today, one of our clients made an interesting point about the true definition of a florist and the attempt by corporate America to monopolize the industry by way of extinguishing the breed.
He called it Florist genocide and made several very bold suggestions as to the way our industry's real florists should play the hand.
Though I agreed in part, I feel that the task at hand is massive for all florists, even the bigger WS independant shops who will eventually feel the same crunch that the smaller shops are feeling.
The big guns will eliminate the small fish from the pond at first because they can, but will eventually focus on the potential savings that can be generated by scaling down the bigger fish. They're next, though I'm certain I will be fought on that revelation.
Left unregulated, their long range goals will eventually become reality and there will be no room for independant shops of any kind.
They will discount to the point that no reputable shop will be able to compete. I see it now. Many of their adverts price us right out of the game.
The consumer then looks at the Real Florist in disbelief at the difference in pricing.
( Today one of our first corporate clients, who lives in our town, came in for a bouquet and we talked. He was approached by 800 and FTD
and gave me a general idea of what they were offerring. Gave me the whole speach about cost effectiveness and loyalty, then very nicely explained that if we could not come close to their incentives the corporation would have no choice but to give them the business.)
I can't compete at that level. The prices were insane.
$25,000 yearly out the door if he makes the jump.
So, in reality, who is exempt from all of this ?
In my humble opinion........no-one !
Does anyone know how we can communicate with the clueless?
What would it take for FlowerChat to do a Fax Broadcast to a data base of florists? There has to be a 25,000 florist data base somewhere.
I sure wish I had the resources to do something. I can speak [see footnote] to groups, but where are the groups that want to listen?
Tom Carlson.
Interesting reading Tom,
Getting people to see the big picture and the light at the end of the tunnel is quite the task, especially if there's no easy way to reach them.
Been working on an email directory but it's going to take a lot of time.
A fax directory is another good idea, but will also take a great deal of time.
The problem is the man/woman power to make it happen, but I do believe that a comprehensive informational network must be established and maintained. Too many florists are uninformed.
We know, we were among the unlucky group.
Sucked in by the " Two Legged Rats " that now don't return any calls.
I feel for many of the small shop owners that have a tremendous passion for the industry and what they do. Many will be unfairly forced out.
Guess that's in part the reason that I am so committed to getting something organized. I just can't justify or condone what has been done to these small shop owners.
In conversation, earlier today, one of our clients made an interesting point about the true definition of a florist and the attempt by corporate America to monopolize the industry by way of extinguishing the breed.
He called it Florist genocide and made several very bold suggestions as to the way our industry's real florists should play the hand.
Though I agreed in part, I feel that the task at hand is massive for all florists, even the bigger WS independant shops who will eventually feel the same crunch that the smaller shops are feeling.
The big guns will eliminate the small fish from the pond at first because they can, but will eventually focus on the potential savings that can be generated by scaling down the bigger fish. They're next, though I'm certain I will be fought on that revelation.
Left unregulated, their long range goals will eventually become reality and there will be no room for independant shops of any kind.
They will discount to the point that no reputable shop will be able to compete. I see it now. Many of their adverts price us right out of the game.
The consumer then looks at the Real Florist in disbelief at the difference in pricing.
( Today one of our first corporate clients, who lives in our town, came in for a bouquet and we talked. He was approached by 800 and FTD
and gave me a general idea of what they were offerring. Gave me the whole speach about cost effectiveness and loyalty, then very nicely explained that if we could not come close to their incentives the corporation would have no choice but to give them the business.)
I can't compete at that level. The prices were insane.
$25,000 yearly out the door if he makes the jump.
So, in reality, who is exempt from all of this ?
In my humble opinion........no-one !
Don't forget to let them compare apples to apples.
A 1-800 $50 product = $43 arr, $7 delivery + 12.99 service charge = 62.99 (in effect, costing $20 for delivery & service chrg)
With a 10% corporate discount, the company would still pay $57.99 for a $43 arr delivered.
With a 20% discount, the company would pay $52.99 for a $43 arrangement delivered.
If your delivery charge is $9.99, your price to the company is the same as 1-800's 'discounted' deal - but without the smoke and mirrors.
I've often wondered if we all shouldn't just inflate our prices to give these 'discounts' because they seem to be very attractive to buyers.
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati
New Member
The future looking thru my crystal balls
Boy Preston,
If we could only predict the future…
Let’s take a look into the future at your three models thru my crystal balls.
The Big Filler - He becomes dependent on the integrity, or lack of integrity, of the large company feeding him orders. He is always vulnerable, as at any time the carpet can be pulled out from underneath him. He is also always being asked to do more for less because there is always another filler waiting in the wings to replace his position.
The Independent Order Gatherers – As the natural progression (contraction) of our industry (as you put it) accelerates, there will be less revenue for the wire services from membership fees do to fewer florists. As this happens the wire services will no longer look toward these Independent Order Gatherers to supplement wire volume. These independents will increasingly be viewed as costly and undesirable competition that easily can be done away with. First the wire services end rebates, and then start charging fees aimed at these undesirables making it impossible for them to operate.
The Strong Local Market Florist – This is the category where a new florist model will be born. As most of the industry become more dependent on highly discounted orders with ever increasing costs and shrinking margins, they will continually need to cut corners and raise prices. This will just exasperate their problem. At the same time The Strong Local Market Florist, who is not burdened by the costs and inefficiencies associated with the wire services, will be able to increasingly separate himself from the rest of the industry. He will become the only one that is able to actually give the consumer what they want, quality value and service. As the natural progression (contraction) of our industry accelerates, the distinction between The Strong Local Market Florist and the rest of the industry becomes even clearer, and no amount of advertising by the wire services and Order Gatherers will be able to counteract the momentum The Strong Local Market Florist has started.
_________________________________________________________________
Quality, value, and service are not out-of-date words. The age of the Internet did not make them obsolete. Marketing and advertising, no matter how much money is thrown at it, will never overtrump those words. Oh sure, advertising and marketing, in the short term can lure a customer away, but in the long haul, quality, value, and service will prevail. The wire services and Order Gatherers can make all the promises they want. They can spend millions of dollars advertising, but they will never be able to offer the consumer what they really are looking for.
RC
`
The future looking thru my crystal balls
Boy Preston,
If we could only predict the future…
Let’s take a look into the future at your three models thru my crystal balls.
The Big Filler - He becomes dependent on the integrity, or lack of integrity, of the large company feeding him orders. He is always vulnerable, as at any time the carpet can be pulled out from underneath him. He is also always being asked to do more for less because there is always another filler waiting in the wings to replace his position.
The Independent Order Gatherers – As the natural progression (contraction) of our industry (as you put it) accelerates, there will be less revenue for the wire services from membership fees do to fewer florists. As this happens the wire services will no longer look toward these Independent Order Gatherers to supplement wire volume. These independents will increasingly be viewed as costly and undesirable competition that easily can be done away with. First the wire services end rebates, and then start charging fees aimed at these undesirables making it impossible for them to operate.
The Strong Local Market Florist – This is the category where a new florist model will be born. As most of the industry become more dependent on highly discounted orders with ever increasing costs and shrinking margins, they will continually need to cut corners and raise prices. This will just exasperate their problem. At the same time The Strong Local Market Florist, who is not burdened by the costs and inefficiencies associated with the wire services, will be able to increasingly separate himself from the rest of the industry. He will become the only one that is able to actually give the consumer what they want, quality value and service. As the natural progression (contraction) of our industry accelerates, the distinction between The Strong Local Market Florist and the rest of the industry becomes even clearer, and no amount of advertising by the wire services and Order Gatherers will be able to counteract the momentum The Strong Local Market Florist has started.
_________________________________________________________________
Quality, value, and service are not out-of-date words. The age of the Internet did not make them obsolete. Marketing and advertising, no matter how much money is thrown at it, will never overtrump those words. Oh sure, advertising and marketing, in the short term can lure a customer away, but in the long haul, quality, value, and service will prevail. The wire services and Order Gatherers can make all the promises they want. They can spend millions of dollars advertising, but they will never be able to offer the consumer what they really are looking for.
RC
`
RC, I think your assessment is right on target. I have been advertising for over 50 years and I still feel unsure of how, when, and where to advertise. Wasn't it Wannamaker, the department store legend, who said, "Half of our adveristing works, just not sure which half." But if we offer Quality, value, and service, we cannot go wrong. Hang in there, the ride is going to be rough. Tom Carlson
Randy -
A senior staffer of a major investment company made similar observations to me (long term outlook for OG/WS model). Why do you think Leonard Green hasn't been able to find a buyer?
Thanks for your insightful thoughts. "Strong Local Market Florist". I like it.
I made a brief post about the S-3 on the RF Blog and hope other bloggers consider linking into it and the Newsvine article by Mark.
A senior staffer of a major investment company made similar observations to me (long term outlook for OG/WS model). Why do you think Leonard Green hasn't been able to find a buyer?
Thanks for your insightful thoughts. "Strong Local Market Florist". I like it.
I made a brief post about the S-3 on the RF Blog and hope other bloggers consider linking into it and the Newsvine article by Mark.
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