FTD and SCI Corp-

[anytimeflowers]

I got a call a little bit ago (very reliable source) and the word is that SCI has in the past demanded and gotten 40% as a kickback from the florists they deal with. Some that have books at the funeral homes, mark-up the pricing to include the 40% discount, thus the CONsumer pays the 40% and not the florist.

Now that said, even if that same florist is a member of FTD, now there will be no guarantee that that same florist will get the work, based on FTD's weighted distribution system, especially in cities with many affiliates.

......and it is quite possible that this could actually gain more members for FTD. Sad. Very sad.

 

[bootcampguy]

......and it is quite possible that this could actually gain more members for FTD. Sad. Very sad.

This is yet another example of killing customer confidence of our industry. Today's customers are not "stupid" they just don't have the time to investigate, so they can be led down any path by anyone (good or bad). Mark is so right, the local person here give's 40% from a store or did I should say. They send me "an opportunity ot bid" letter every year. We use them as a spare in the bathroom.

 

[duanermb]

I got a call a little bit ago (very reliable source) and the word is that SCI has in the past demanded and gotten 40% as a kickback from the florists they deal with. Some that have books at the funeral homes, mark-up the pricing to include the 40% discount, thus the CONsumer pays the 40% and not the florist.

I see nothing wrong with the highlighted, as long as the funeral home is not bashing the florists for high prices when he sells. Mostly, it is a value added service for the funeral home, saves the bereaved a trip and allows easier coordination by the funeral home.

I would absolutely offer a FH a deal that included the markup in the price. This is how it SHOULD work, not the current commission based, fill to value model that we have now.

I would be willing to offer the FH 40% on top of a 10% discounted price for their book. I would even brand it with their name, not mine. Let them sell elevated pricing with their name, and reap the benefits of the orders. They have a great motivation to sell flowers for you, and you have a really nice agreement. It happens in many industries and is win win for both parties.

Those who require a 40% discount just to send you the order are being greedy, and aren't good salespeople. Their sell is relatively easy, so they should treat it accordingly. There is lots of work out there that isn't worth doing, and this would be in that category.

 

[Eric S]

The florist a town over is going to join FTD to keep the order.. so she will be all three wire service.

Extortion, outwresting, and/or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups.

 

[CHR]

According to the FTC Funeral Rules (PDF):

The Funeral Rule requires funeral providers to disclose to you in writing if they charge a
fee for buying cash advance items. Cash advance items are goods or services that are
paid for by the funeral provider on your behalf. Some examples of cash advance items
are flowers, obituary notices, pallbearers, and clergy honoraria. Some funeral providers
charge only their cost for these items. Others add a service fee to their cost. The
Funeral Rule requires the funeral provider to inform you ahead of time when a service
fee is to be added to the price of cash advance items or if the provider gets a refund,
discount, or rebate from the supplier of any cash advance item.

Not sure if the disclosure is buried in the small print, but I'd sure like to see how SCI complies with this rule.

You can bet that attorneys from other WSs (and from some large florists who will be losing their FH deals) will be looking at how this all plays out.

 

[BOSS]

I see nothing wrong with the highlighted,

You don't see a problem with a CONsumer being charged 40% more than the value they are receiving?... Really? Seriously????

Smacks of collusion...

And today, considering how many people "pre-arrange" their funerals, they stand a very good chance of having to add an additional 40% to just get the most basic spray...

This is just wrong, and should be outed at every opportunity. Any florist that would go this route, should not be in the sympathy business. Hitting a family when they're at their lowest point, is beyond arrogant, it's sinful, unethical and should be illegal.

 

[Carol Bice]

You don't see a problem with a CONsumer being charged 40% more than the value they are receiving?... Really? Seriously????

Several years ago, I was in the office at a funeral home. I was waiting in there because I was the organist for the funeral. In between songs, I saw a book on the desk that said "flowers". I couldn't help myself and walked over and looked at the pages.

The funeral home was charging the family 50% more than he was giving the florists for the order and still getting a 20% discount from the local florists.

I wonder what percentage of funeral directors do this? I guess it is something we can't control. Since, I was not suppose to have seen it, I certainly couldn't talk to them about it.

 

[concord]

The funeral director that I'm married to does not add on to any of the things he purchases on behalf of the family. All cash advances are billed to the family at the exact amount they were charged from the organist, minister, newspapers and florist, even if the florist is not me! I know that is not always the case and it's sad when people are taken advantage of in their time of need.

 

[anytimeflowers]

When I first opened, I approached the local funeral homes, bringing them books and a letter of introduction. In that letter, I offered them 10% on all orders referred by them. They were horrified, said they would never do that and it was against ethics.

I was embarrassed because I thought that was how the other florist got the business. I have since learned what the funeral directors want, and in our town, it isn't a cut of the extra take, it's about service and quality. The funeral homes right around here for the most part are still family operations and perhaps that's the difference.

 

[Doug Munro]

Flip side of the conversation is that FTD is providing new value to their members. As an FTD member, you're now more likely to get funeral business.

As much as I find the overall aspect of this distasteful, I have to applaud FTD for doing something that provides a tangible benefit and distinction for their members.

Here we go again, woe is me.

The overriding sentiment on this board is generally one of " quit the wire services, your better off on your own as they provide no value"

So now FTD goes out and cuts a deal that in fact will provide value to it's members (as Ryan points out) and the nay sayers (and non- members) find this somehow distasteful.

The reality of today's world is that stand alone mom and pop businesses are losing ground everyday to the "big boys" whether it be wire services, hardware stores, funeral homes, toy stores, etc. The bottom line is that they simply have the resources to do a better job in areas like marketing, purchasing, etc. Not to say that small business will not survive in years to come, of course it will. However the survivors will be the ones that adapt to the changing business environment , not the ones that whine and cry about the forces they perceive as being arrayed against them.

Although technology has opened Pandora's Box, ultimately it is the consumer making the choice as to where to spend their hard earned money (that has never changed).

Maybe I have a different perception of the wire services than most on this board due to the fact that we are a franchiser and are continuously striving to provide value added services to our franchises to help them succeed, something that in some aspects FTD/Teleflora are also attempting to do for their members. However, like any business we are in it to generate a profit (note that "profit" contains 6 letters, not 4) just like our own franchisee's, wire services members, and those on this board.

If the general consensus is that FTD has scooped a big chunk of funeral business on this deal and locked you out as a local guy, maybe in some circumstances its time to become a member. Just food for thought.

 

[BOSS]

Um... uh.... never mind....

Have a good weekend Y'all....

 

[Doug Munro]

You don't see a problem with a CONsumer being charged 40% more than the value they are receiving?... Really? Seriously????

Smacks of collusion...

And today, considering how many people "pre-arrange" their funerals, they stand a very good chance of having to add an additional 40% to just get the most basic spray...

This is just wrong, and should be outed at every opportunity. Any florist that would go this route, should not be in the sympathy business. Hitting a family when they're at their lowest point, is beyond arrogant, it's sinful, unethical and should be illegal.

I have been in the flower business for over 30 years, during that time many florists I dealt with (in my wholesale carreer) and many of the ones our own stores compete with have exclusive arrangements with Funeral homes. Many of these deals are structured whereas the Funeral Home is provided with a selection guide by the florist to show FH cutomers where the reatil prices are shown to allow the FH a 40 - 50 % cut.

I am stunned that this practice comes as news to individuals on this board.

 

[Doug Munro]

You don't see a problem with a CONsumer being charged 40% more than the value they are receiving?... Really? Seriously????

Smacks of collusion...

And today, considering how many people "pre-arrange" their funerals, they stand a very good chance of having to add an additional 40% to just get the most basic spray...

This is just wrong, and should be outed at every opportunity. Any florist that would go this route, should not be in the sympathy business. Hitting a family when they're at their lowest point, is beyond arrogant, it's sinful, unethical and should be illegal.

Mark, Quick question

Who decides the "value they are recieving"?

I would suggest that is the job of the purchaser not the seller. Lets take the case of roses, Costco sells two dozen 50 cm for under $20.00, the average florist would be in the $80-120 range.

So tell me, what is the "value" of 2 dozen 50 cm roses? I would suggest that to consumers buying them at Costco the value is under $20.00. That would also suggest that in the eyes of these Costco consumers that the average florist is changing far more than the "value received".

This statement is not intended to start a discussion on all the costs the average florist faces, but simply to point out that when we all live in a glass house we shouldn't be throwing stones.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I would be willing to offer the FH 40% on top of a 10% discounted price for their book. I would even brand it with their name, not mine. Let them sell elevated pricing with their name, and reap the benefits of the orders. They have a great motivation to sell flowers for you, and you have a really nice agreement. It happens in many industries and is win win for both parties.

Those who require a 40% discount just to send you the order are being greedy, and aren't good salespeople. Their sell is relatively easy, so they should treat it accordingly. There is lots of work out there that isn't worth doing, and this would be in that category.

Thanks Duane, this seems reasonable.

But, I think this is the reality.

According to the FTC Funeral Rules (PDF):


The Funeral Rule requires funeral providers to disclose to you in writing if they charge a
fee for buying cash advance items. Cash advance items are goods or services that are
paid for by the funeral provider on your behalf. Some examples of cash advance items
are flowers, obituary notices, pallbearers, and clergy honoraria. Some funeral providers
charge only their cost for these items. Others add a service fee to their cost. The
Funeral Rule requires the funeral provider to inform you ahead of time when a service
fee is to be added to the price of cash advance items or if the provider gets a refund,
discount, or rebate from the supplier of any cash advance item.


Not sure if the disclosure is buried in the small print, but I'd sure like to see how SCI complies with this rule.

You can bet that attorneys from other WSs (and from some large florists who will be losing their FH deals) will be looking at how this all plays out.

However the survivors will be the ones that adapt to the changing business environment , not the ones that whine and cry about the forces they perceive as being arrayed against them.

I adapted to changed business practices by quitting WS. I found through good, sound tracking that I would be much better off without them. For some, it works very well. If I were Karen though, I would be LOUDLY proclaiming to ALL area consumers just why she won't be doing the flowers for those funerals anymore. That is why your next statement hits me as a paradox, and also the statement that spurred me into posting.

Although technology has opened Pandora's Box, ultimately it is the consumer making the choice as to where to spend their hard earned money (that has never changed).

Now this I completely DIS-agree with. Here is where my biggest problem lies, and perhaps it is because I am a capitalist pig. The consumer is NOT given a choice in this partnership, unless it is clearly stated to them in their consultation, that they will pay a premium of an additional 40% for the added-value service. I think it is taking advantage of the grief-stricken family.

I would suggest that is the job of the purchaser not the seller. Lets take the case of roses, Costco sells two dozen 50 cm for under $20.00, the average florist would be in the $80-120 range.

So tell me, what is the "value" of 2 dozen 50 cm roses? I would suggest that to consumers buying them at Costco the value is under $20.00. That would also suggest that in the eyes of these Costco consumers that the average florist is changing far more than the "value received".

Here is where we can agree. Of course, I don't sell 50cm roses at $80, I sell a dozen 80cm at $50 in a vase. However, each consumer has their own perceived value. I won't argue that, they are FREE to make their own choices, and probably are not in a weakened state of grief, either.

That is the big difference to me. It is with every confidence that I conjecture the out-come. Those funeral directors will be forced to sell the whole package, and will manipulate a normally strong person into being swayed to a more expensive tribute with less value.

You can say that they won't know the difference and will feel fine with it, but as with a deceitful og, the true fact remains that if the consumer KNOWS they are being charged a HEFTY "service" surcharge, they don't go for it.

Are you honestly saying that if your child died, (in this example "you" are NOT a professional florist), and when you go to make the funeral arrangements the funeral home says they will take care of all of the details for you, just pick from this and that, you wouldn't go for it? But then, you find out that the funeral home, in addition to the ten grand you laid out for the coffin, printing, etc., made an extra $200-$400 SERVICE FEE for ordering your flowers for you? Nope, you would be outraged, be honest.

I usually agree with a lot of what you say Doug, because I believe in free enterprise. I don't believe in deceit. This is not a consumer choice, this is, as Eric so eloquently put it....

Extortion, outwresting, and/or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups.

 

[concord]

Linda, Thanks for such detailed responses. I agree with you 100% It's all about the deception. That's what makes my blood boil. People say it's ultimately up to the consumer, but the consumer has no clue it's happening. Ultimately, when they see what a small bouquet they get for their money, they are even more inclined to say In lieu of flowers, and who can blame them? So while FTD, Funeral Directors and OG's keep taking bigger and bigger pieces of the pie, we florists are just supposed to go along with it because that's the changing business model. I'm not inclined to go along with it just because someone tells me to stop complaining and change with the times.

 

[Florist Doctor]

I got a call today from my favorite funeral home asking me if I was an FTD florist..... I told her no... she told me she had some bad news... Corporate has partnered with FTD and only FTD florist can fill their orders.

We are both sad as I have provided exceptional flowers and service for them for the last year and a half. Some times with a call at 5 and delivery by 10 am the next am.

I have lost this business to my competitor in town who boast that they are the Top Teleflora/FTD florist in town. UGH!

I hate corporate greed... I guess CSI have a link to FTD from their website... OH YEAH!

I will go collect my books and see if they will still refer me when people choose not to purchase their flower packages.. I am hoping!

Hi Karen - thats tuff news to bear. Its difficult to see how an association with FTD fits in. More probable is that SCI found a better business deal with the other florist. Our SCI funeral homes have their own central florist that supplies their needs.

Whilst funeral packages will very often include for casket flowers, a good association with the funeral homes will always be productive. They get to see your standard of work and they will begin recommending you. Offering a superior product is very important

Having discounted business is not always good for the florist. Relying on a big percentage of your work to be "wire ins" is equally counter productive and profit sapping. ( 20% or less if possible) Its very easy to do business, but doing business that makes a profit is another thing.

I would bow out very gracefully. Concentrate on making a good name for yourself, both with customers and other florists. There is always a demand for a "good" florist

 

[Florist Doctor]

Roses are worth as much as somone is prepared to pay for them.

Mark, Quick question

Who decides the "value they are recieving"?

I would suggest that is the job of the purchaser not the seller. Lets take the case of roses, Costco sells two dozen 50 cm for under $20.00, the average florist would be in the $80-120 range.

So tell me, what is the "value" of 2 dozen 50 cm roses? I would suggest that to consumers buying them at Costco the value is under $20.00. That would also suggest that in the eyes of these Costco consumers that the average florist is changing far more than the "value received".

This statement is not intended to start a discussion on all the costs the average florist faces, but simply to point out that when we all live in a glass house we shouldn't be throwing stones.

Hi Doug - the value of 2 dozen roses is the price you can convince someone to pay for them. Perception of somethings worth is just as important. Make your roses a big arrangement and be creative, with different greens and filler, and someone will pay the $150 that our shop charges.

Do not be restrained by what other florists charge. There is room for us all. Some ladies will buy a dress at Macys for $150 and others will buy the same dress at the outlet stores for $70. Its the same difference. - Your perception is your reality

Be your own boss, be creative and offer a superior product and you'll be surprised what people will pay for their flowers. The florist doctor

 

[Florist Doctor]

Linda, Thanks for such detailed responses. I agree with you 100% It's all about the deception. That's what makes my blood boil. People say it's ultimately up to the consumer, but the consumer has no clue it's happening. Ultimately, when they see what a small bouquet they get for their money, they are even more inclined to say In lieu of flowers, and who can blame them? So while FTD, Funeral Directors and OG's keep taking bigger and bigger pieces of the pie, we florists are just supposed to go along with it because that's the changing business model. I'm not inclined to go along with it just because someone tells me to stop complaining and change with the times.

Hi Helen - Good for you. Florists need to take the bull by the horns and be their own boss again. We need to realise that any business relationship,( including the wire services), that we may have will want to maximise their benefit often at the expense of your business.

Florists need to be more choosy about the business they get. The only business that the florist has full control over is the full retail one they sell from their web site or shop. The florist doctor

 

[LOTAKIDS]

Hi Karen - thats tuff news to bear. Its difficult to see how an association with FTD fits in. More probable is that SCI found a better business deal with the other florist. Our SCI funeral homes have their own central florist that supplies their needs.

Whilst funeral packages will very often include for casket flowers, a good association with the funeral homes will always be productive. They get to see your standard of work and they will begin recommending you. Offering a superior product is very important

Having discounted business is not always good for the florist. Relying on a big percentage of your work to be "wire ins" is equally counter productive and profit sapping. ( 20% or less if possible) Its very easy to do business, but doing business that makes a profit is another thing.

I would bow out very gracefully. Concentrate on making a good name for yourself, both with customers and other florists. There is always a demand for a "good" florist

Thank you for your words of encouragement!! Since writing this and finding this out from the Funeral home, I had two familys, one I did their daughters wedding and another lived out of town has used my services for flowers, call and I did $1000.00 worth of funeral work in 2 days. This is all on the reputation I have built with them. It is also the same reputation I built with the FH. I supply superior product and great service.

I will keep woking hard to make sure my designs are cutting edge, fresh and memorable for the receipients.

As said... it's best to join the franchises.. I think NOT! I enjoy not having to be dictated as to what goes into the design.. but letting the customer dictate by creating repore with them and their occasion by delivering awsome flowers.

Yes this whole situtuation was like a bursting bubble... but now that I have had my pitty party, I am ready to battle on!!

Yes, the FTD Florist in town can copy the book, but when it comes to more creative designs... they fall flat (flowers arrangers) and that is where my business comes in fantastic floral design with a twist.

Thank you Linda and Helen.... I so appreciate both of your insight! Linda you have such and eloquent way of putting things.

Doug... I am glad that you are finding you nitch as a franchisee but that is not the road for me. Copy and pasting is not my style now nor has it ever been. Some of us are a bit more independent.

Thank you all for your foods for thought!

 

[Doug Munro]

Now this I completely DIS-agree with. Here is where my biggest problem lies, and perhaps it is because I am a capitalist pig. The consumer is NOT given a choice in this partnership, unless it is clearly stated to them in their consultation, that they will pay a premium of an additional 40% for the added-value service. I think it is taking advantage of the grief-stricken family.

That is the big difference to me. It is with every confidence that I conjecture the out-come. Those funeral directors will be forced to sell the whole package, and will manipulate a normally strong person into being swayed to a more expensive tribute with less value.

You can say that they won't know the difference and will feel fine with it, but as with a deceitful og, the true fact remains that if the consumer KNOWS they are being charged a HEFTY "service" surcharge, they don't go for it.

Are you honestly saying that if your child died, (in this example "you" are NOT a professional florist), and when you go to make the funeral arrangements the funeral home says they will take care of all of the details for you, just pick from this and that, you wouldn't go for it? But then, you find out that the funeral home, in addition to the ten grand you laid out for the coffin, printing, etc., made an extra $200-$400 SERVICE FEE for ordering your flowers for you? Nope, you would be outraged, be honest.

A funeral home provides a valuable service to individuals and families in a time of need. I believe that the key word here is service, the reality is that many portions of that service can be purchased or obtained elsewhere at a lower cost by the consumer. However what the funeral home does very well is wrap them all up in a neat and tidy package so that they become a one stop shop for the consumer during their time of grief. Is this taking advantage of a grief stricken individual, I don't think so.

Do they charge for these services? Of course they do, after all the bottom line is that they are a business. No different than any retail florist who purchases something and marks it up. I don't know how many times I have heard florists brag to their peers about how "cheap" they bought something on clearance, at a "dollar store", or even at Costco and how much they were able to mark it up to their own customers.

Many businesses will purchase a product from the very same source as a consumer does (and frequently at the same price) and then add a mark up and labour charges, a perfect example of this is the home renovation trade. Many times your contractor will purchase his material for the job he is doing for you at the same big box store you shop at and pay the same prices.

As for pricing, we work in an industry where 10 retailers can pay exactly the same cost for a product yet price it to the consumer at 10 different prices. So again I would ask who determines the value of the product and what "customer service" is worth?