FTD.COM's order volume decreases

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Sorry so long, but I can't help it!!!

The difference is not in the increase or the decrease. The real information to learn here is what direction FTD is steering people who visit & order from FTD.COM.

It is clear that FTD is betting on more people buying more products that are directly shipped from them and by-passing the florist model.

I do not see a problem with private companies selling directly shipped items from their own websites to consumers. I have a problem when a partner, and in this case a partner in business takes for themselves and only leaves expense for the other partner (their members).

In this case we have FTD raising fee’s to its membership. Technology, incoming order fees, transaction fees, quality assurance fees and a related number of others soon to be released. While this takes place FTD introduces new direct shipped products and lowers the bar on price of arrangements sent through their deeply discounted system. This is in my book a partner taking money from the register and putting it into their pocket. They are not worried about paying the electric bill.

If FTD chooses to be direct competition of its members (customers) FTD should by all rights increase the gross amount transmitted to those shops on orders generated by FTD itself. Give back at the very least the clearinghouse fee. After-all FTD does charge a service fee. FTD’s CEO admits that he understands that florists are under increased pressure for rising fuel costs and require more monies to make deliveries. However he refers to the arrangements in our trucks as “Our Bouquets” meaning FTD. So apparently FTD claims ownership of the property in our coolers and our vehicles. Today’s business world is fueled by LEGAL words, and LEGAL issues. Using the term “Our BOUQUETS” leaves no question in my mind on who should be responsible to foot the costs associated with delivery of THEIR products. Hmmmmmmm. I encourage everyone to listen to the call. It’s a sneak peek in the very dark world of BIG BUSINESS and a tell all of things to come. I would never expect a fellow florist that collects a service fee to hand it over to another shop. But I would expect a for profit company collecting fees from customers to be a little more flexible especially when they tell their STOCKHOLDERS that the products in our trucks is THEIRS!

You won’t have to convince me that FTD would never do this, however I do think that FTD’s management is failing the investors of the company to see beyond the next quarter. No doubt the actions that they are taking now and over the coming weeks will continue to cause FTD to loose more florists. The only thing that I hope for is that the damage that they cause does not reach beyond their members and cause the Retail Florist Industry to suffer greater than we apparently have been. Unfortunately, FTD’s damage causing practices reach much further then the boundaries of membership. They hit us all, in every market on every street.

In order to beat FTD, one has to find a way to discredit the company’s creditability and reliability. FTD takes the position that they deserve the reputation they have earned. The ironic part is FTD never earned an individual reputation. The reputation enjoyed today by the company was once shared with the true achievers, the Florists of FTD. Sure, times change and so does business. No doubt we are all experiencing changing times. Making the best of the situation is not an impossible task. It requires creativity and a passion to excel and succeed.

Florist are, and will always be, accepting orders, manufacturing arrangements, coordinating deliveries for same day gifting for customers. This is unique to our industry. In many cases we go from phone call or online order to delivery completion in just a matter of an hour or two. We take risks everyday, we gamble with inventory, staffing and speculate holiday buys. If our industry as a whole could operate more like a business and recognize competition when we see it, I think the future of many would be more secure.

If only, if only I wasn’t dreaming. Am I? Are you? Can we?

Remember that book we all read when we were kids?

The lines went from, I think I can, I think I can.
to
I Know I can, I know I can.
 
No, Daz - I don't take things personally - ESPECIALLY on this board!
(I disagree with bloomz on his politics, but like the man as a florist! Some PRETTY harsh posts during the election, but FUN ones at that! Where DOES he get some of those links...anyway...)

Even your 'drinking' comments don't bother me - hey, went to Penn State, remember? I *LIVED* in a house surrounded by fraternities for TWO YEARS, and dorms before that...was in the Blue Band, and when road trips to places like West Virginia & Notre Dame occurred, those busses morphed into rolling wet-bars.......been there, done that. Drinkin' ain't my thang anymore.

As far as misreading posts, I don't think so. I quoted each section to TRY and understand your points. If I mis-read them, then maybe JUST MAYBE they were not clear. OR...I just didn't understand your logic.

NOW...yea, florists can fill at 100% - BUT that's not how a w/s works! The ONLY way to use this model is to do what you are doing now - by-passing the w/s - FINE - do it! But I can't do that, MAN!!!! What part of this do you NOT understand! My wire volume is too big. OH!!! Did I say that...OH BOY! I guess I'm ...oh great googley-moogley...an ORDER GATHERER!

Yup. Since 1928 big guy. One of the very first OG's. But, see - back then we were REAL florists just transferring an order to another REAL florist. Hmmm...sounds like what you want to do.

We USED to bleed the black and gold of FTD.
I do not trust big Mike. Nor ANY of the top Brass - especially since what they have done to Advantage over the years. .COM is what it is...the truest of OG's, and clearly their focus. If it were not, then we wouldn't be trading posts like this.

Complain all you want about FTD, but you need to understand that some shops need FTD to handle their wire out volume until a VIABLE alternative comes about.

- H.

PS - as an FYI, my .COM filling is nearly zilch (or soon will be...) I fill orders for OTHER florists...even yours.
 
When you said *gulp* and I need Tylenol, I thought you had a few beers. :)

Listen, the entire gist of the post was I am a new florist that was never locked into a WS, which makes me lucky. You on the other hand are a well established and successful florist and can't just quit the WS like that without some revenue loss. This is why I feel bad for the florists caught in the catch 22. That is all. Do you understand that logic?

You said you don't rely on the WS, but yet you said you'd lose $1000s of dollars. Which is it? You don't need them or you do for the extra money? I'm a bit confused on that.

NOW...yea, florists can fill at 100% - BUT that's not how a w/s works!

Dood? What are you talking about? Did I say a WS works like that??? I know how a WS works. I think you need to re-read my posts man.

But I can't do that, MAN!!!! What part of this do you NOT understand! My wire volume is too big. OH!!! Did I say that...OH BOY! I guess I'm ...oh great googley-moogley...an ORDER GATHERER!

You are lost my friend. I know you could never do that.. never said you could. THE ORIGINAL POST WAS ABOUT A NOOB FLORIST LIKE ME HAVING IT EASIER THAN AN ESTABLISHED FLORIST LIKE YOU. Hello? *knock knock* lol Come on man.. where's the hidden camera? :)

We USED to bleed the black and gold of FTD.
I do not trust big Mike. Nor ANY of the top Brass - especially since what they have done to Advantage over the years. .COM is what it is...the truest of OG's, and clearly their focus. If it were not, then we wouldn't be trading posts like this.

Huh? Yeah I agree. What did that last paragraph infer? OGs are anyone who gather's orders online, I.E FTD, the biggest OG. I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with OGs. It’s the people who deceive who are gathering orders I have a problem with. We’re all OGs some of us better than others is all. There needs to be a term coined for an OG who is ok and an OG that is deceitful. I brought this up a couple months ago.

Complain all you want about FTD, but you need to understand that some shops need FTD to handle their wire out volume until a VIABLE alternative comes about.

Right, because I was the only one complaining here. And as to that the above... I agree and tried to express my empathy in my first reply about the catch22 you guys are in, but you missed it I can see.


P.S. – I’m a big Steelers fan too! :)

P.P.S.
Big guy? Hmmm, you must of been talking to Jerry. ;)
 
There is a great big difference between a shop with 1 full time employee whose owner works at another job while trying to build the business (that is what you said in another post I think).. and a large organization employing many many people whose owner relies on the profit of the company to pay his salary..
I think you have lots of good ideas and I am learning lots watching you learn this industry..but you really did take off on Herb (in my opinion) telling how much better a situation you were in and how sorry you felt for him.
Transferring of orders is a big issue.. that is why this whole thing started in 1919.. and few florists can afford to going back to the old routine of calling out orders and keying in cc info and repeat orders..I remember the late nights like Feb 13th and Dec 23rd.. till all hours calling the west coast etc
This board can be a free for all at times but it pays us all to remember who the big, successful guys are and who the newbies with small, maybe growing shops are..
There are lots of things I can do because I am in a small town that a large metro florist can't do and visa versa..
Go ahead & feel sorry for Herb.. but remember his company is making money & supporting an industry and is happily sharing his knowledge gained from running a successful company.
while you have great new ideas and a wonderful breath of fresh air... don't try to act like you know what is right for everyone & the industry until you have been around long enough to prove you are a keeper!
 
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There is a great big difference between a shop with 1 full time employee whose owner works at another job while trying to build the business (that is what you said in another post I think).. and a large organization employing many many people whose owner relies on the profit of the company to pay his salary..

Ya think? That's what I said before. *sigh* What is it with you guys? I never felt sorry for Herb, it was florists locked into the WS scam and can't easily get out. How many more times can I say that? You too, please go back and re-read my post. I feel sorry for all of you caught in the problem. I WAS SAYING SINCE I WAS KNEW I DIDN'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM. Not sure how many more times I can say that. I am sorry you and Philly assumed I was attacking him. I like Herb, very smart guy and he has helped me in PMs, why would I attack him? Miscommunication.

Go ahead & feel sorry for Herb
*taps the mic* IS THIS THING ON????? Am I speaking English? COME ON.

don't try to act like you know what is right for everyone & the industry until you have been around long enough to prove you are a keeper!
*PUKES*

Carol you are a great designer, great person, and thanks for the nice things you said, but buy a clue please. I never said I had the answers; your assumptions here are making you look silly. You obviously didn't read my post and are playing off Philly's last reply. I was trying to be empathic for florists like Philly caught in the WS, and now I think I know it all?

Herb, I am really sorry if you took it the wrong way, I consider you a friend and would of never attacked you. I really think this is a big miscommunication. In the past (6 months ago) I have been hard on FTD/TF members, but I figured it out and understand their problem. I do get upset when I see people complain about FTD and then support them. That boggles my mine and that is what gets me going. I wonder how many people who complain about FTD, but support them have an exit strategy? Why would a FTD member have an exit strategy when they pull in the dough each month? I can't answer that and will keep my thoughts to myself.

I know I am still naive about the biz Carol and maybe one day when I say the right things I can join the club, but something I do know is when a florist gives $$ to FTD and supports them and their logo and DOESN'T have an exit strategy, they are in for rough waters. But this is nothing new to any of you.

I know I am not popular here on this forum Carol, but I want apologize to Herb if I sounded like I was attacking him or whatever. But I will stand by what I said about what really upsets me about WS members... those who awe WS members and support them without an exit strategy. It sounds like Herb has one, that's awesome. I always liked Herb and he is the man when I have questions about floral biology.
 
Dazeal said:
Carol you are a great designer, great person, and thanks for the nice things you said, but buy a clue please.
.

Thanks for compliment, and I am a Master Designer and @@@@ good, but I think you have me mixed up with Carol Bice from Texas..she is the one who did lots of the designs at the FTD Convention

I am the florist from NH who has been to lots of shops to help them with their Gen Ledgers and financial reports. I have FTD Advantage software and know the ins & outs of florist accounting so I have been paid by FTD to help others (both large & small shops, ) with figuring out their income statements and how to generate actual, correct & auditable financials.

I am the one who says you need to sell what you make a profit on and not sell those things which lose you money. and you need a valid method of deciding which is which .. the reason why I am so in favor of techonolgy and POS systems that make sense.

There is no question the industry has taken a strong left (or maybe u) turn).. it is the ones who know what is happening in their shops that will make it to the end of the game.. not just guessing but really knowing where & why they are making (or losing) money.

It is very easy to blame this all on the wire services (and I mean all , not just FTD..remember it was not FTd who put in the rebate game..in fact I think FTD was the last one to finally climb into the mudpuddle)
but the truth may be more that our industry has been easy to get into with little capital and less knowledge.. and so it is hard to keep fighting against start-ups who lowball prices to get traffic into their store.

And of course the non-florist OG's who make a killing by plying the 20% against us.. but even they did not become successful until the rebate game was conceived of.. that is when it became more than profitable to play that game..now no one will give it up.. and not just the big guys.. the little florists complain bitterly if they do not get incoming orders (yeah it is stupid but they do and they are willing to fill them) so there is no motivation for the wire services to change their course of action.
 
Either way Carol, I've known you for a lil while and still think you are a great person. ;)
 
Daz - no apogies needed...

However I think you understimate this 'catch 22' thing...it's not about the revanue, it's about the service(s) wire services offer. Take FTD Cashflo - one of the BEST rates you can get on c-card processing. Yes???
I happen to think that a NEW shop just starting out may be able to wire orders direct, or get on a system where they can re-key orders online or something. However, if that shop goes for the wire out biz, there may be a point in which he/she will HAVE to join something in order to keep productive...

I know, there is a lot of moaning & groaning about FTD - and I am one of the moaner & groaners! However, those are unavoidable in today's w/s envornment. No matter WHO you use to relay orders, there will be something not kosher - FTDTEL are the biggest offenders hands down.
But again, WHO is going to handle the SERVICE - a shop my size, in a big market city, needs the end points...

Anyway...with regards to my $1000 of dollars - yes, I can't just tell my customers to go somewhere else with their C-mas orders! We have handled some of them for 40+ years... That's what I meant. SERVICING them...not telling them to go somewhere else to buy their flowers...

- H.

PS - Erra - a - NO, not the Steelers...EAGLES MAN!!!
"Fly Eagles Fly".... will be tough game in Denver...Eagles 21, Denver 17
 
Here's a few random hopefully rational thoughts from a victim (love the word) of hurricane Wilma who's enjoyed a couple to possibly few martinis this evening.

WHY DO YOU WANT TO PAY (membership fees) TO YOUR COMPETITION (ftd.com direct) TO TAKE YOUR CUSTOMERS AWAY?

Ya been in business 40-100 years but there was no internet 40-100 years ago, times a changin!!

Good ol Hopeful from flowersandcents.org voiced his most rational post a few months back about growing your market area. Those are not the correct words (martinis fault). Flowers need to be more for self consumption if the industry has a chance to grow. (hopeyism again)

Most households have their own vases that beautiful bouquets look great in. That's why the supermarkets have so many bouquets available. They have gotten so wise they have 30 stem bouquets for 19.99. You all have an incredible opportunity and ability to create a better bouquet at the same $$$ sale. From my experience in discussing this topic with florist it's that they can't have the supermarket bqt look. Most flower shops I've visited or worked in have so much fluff and frills (be it ribbon, paper, cool novelty flowers), a florist could sell a phenominal 20 stem bqt fot 19.99. The margin could be similar to the supermarket with alot less overhead.

I guess if the walk in traffic is not there that would be tough... but instead of a print ad why not make a sample bouquet deliver to a high end neighborhood for free and push a weekly or bi weekly standing order. You could even offer a delivery fee. Just remember it's the neighborhoods with the daily housekeepers to accept the flowers. The disposable income is very important.

Well those are my rambling possibly coherent flower thoughts. It's been a rough week!
 
nonbitter said:
Well those are my rambling possibly coherent flower thoughts. It's been a rough week!

Seems pretty coherent to me :SUI:

God Speed down there! We be thinking of ya all!
 
Being a member of a wire service to send orders out of town to a network of other reliable florists, is a sound reason for membership. That is why they were started in the first place.

Whoring oneself out to fill wire service generated orders is another matter alltogether.

Florists have only 3 options to curb or end the abuse they suffer.

1. Leave the wire services altogether.
2. Change wire services.
3. Stop filling for them.

#1 is an option for some, but not really enough(in my view) to insure change in wire service policies

#2 may only result in each side experienceing an equal migration due to conflicting reasons for leaving one for the other. For this option to work. members would need to leave one service in enough numbers to convince the other service to ammend their policys to reflect the desires of this new flood of member wishes.

#3. Is an option that can be used to great effect upon any wire service irreguardless of ones afilleation.

The membership has always had and still does have the means to end the ills this segment of the industry has. If the members had the collective will not to fill.

It is obvious that people want to buy flowers and wish to send them to other people. be they next door to across the country. If they can no longer buy from who they were used to buying from. then they will only seek out another outlet to make their floral purchase.

When a dept. store or a home improvement store goes belly up. it's not like the consumer stops buying those products. they just suffer having to become used to the services/products the others provide.

Think of all the florists over the last 12 years that have filled 1-800fls. orders at a discount. only to have that business pulled out from under them. While 1-800 set up their own fulliment centers. Where the realities of the ecomonics under the situation just removed any "discounts" the orders used to suffer from.

Irrreguardless of how 1-800 may "account" for the moneys involved. The reality is is that they retained 100% of its monetary value.

How long will it be before 1-800 uses the in-house information obtained from their "partners" clearings, as a basis for developing fulliment centers in the secondary markets? Knowing that the commissions formerly paid out are sufficent to support doing the work themselfs.

Filling their orders and complaining about the results and conciquences seems to be the only actions taken by anybody, save a few.

If doing the work themselfs, or to pass it off to large fulliment centers ,where they can leverage the ultimate pay out for the services provided, is their long term goal. Then I don't understand the reasons so many choose not to force the issue at a time they can do the most good. By forcing the issue at a time that none of them can respond effectively.

Florists are prisoners of their own mindset, the doors are unlocked but they choose to remain behind bars.
 
flowerknife+us said:
Being a member of a wire service to send orders out of town to a network of other reliable florists, is a sound reason for membership. That is why they were started in the first place.

[...stuff deleted..]

Florists have only 3 options to curb or end the abuse they suffer.

1. Leave the wire services altogether.
2. Change wire services.
3. Stop filling for them.

#1 is an option for some, but not really enough(in my view) to insure change in wire service policies

#2 may only result in each side experienceing an equal migration due to conflicting reasons for leaving one for the other. For this option to work. members would need to leave one service in enough numbers to convince the other service to ammend their policys to reflect the desires of this new flood of member wishes.

#3. Is an option that can be used to great effect upon any wire service irreguardless of ones afilleation.
[...stuff deleted...]
This post was very interesting (although severely "spelling-challenged"), and summarizes the dilemma that faces the industry today. I think this industry has been hit with a series of "disruptive technologies", and has changed for good. PhillyFlorist ofter talks about "elimination of the Order Gathers", but that is no longer an option. To steal a metaphor, the genie is out of the bottle, and no amount of force or cajoling will put it back in.

What needs to happen at this point of time is something akin to the "open source software" (OSS) movement. Years ago, many *very* smart individuals decided that Microsoft, Oracle, and others (re: FTD, TF, 1-800) could NOT be allowed to have complete hegemony over the software industry. They started creating a set of tools under the GNU/FSF license that allowed users THE CHOICE to opt-out of the monopolistic path that it was heading down. It's success has been astounding...one person, working pretty much alone, managed to do something that several large government could not, and that was to slow the Microsoft juggernaut from controlling almost all of the world's personal computers.

Why do I bring up this seemingly unrelated topic? Because I see THIS HISTORY as THE FUTURE of our industry. What we need is to start competing against the hegemony of the WSs for delivering out-of-area orders. I have been advocating that we all get out of the wire-sending business, but I can now see that this answer is too simplistic for many here. Your long history of handling out-of-area orders is a viable revenue stream and should not be discounted. So here what is currently swimming through my mind...

We need to create a FREE, OPEN system to put out-of-areas on, to be filled by a shop in the area that is necessary. This system would be FREE to any registered and verified florist, and the software would be OPEN SOURCE to eliminate anyone's megalomaniacal tendencies to want to control and proprietize the system. It would be loosely (and I mean *loosely*) overseen by the group of florists that created the system, similar to all open source projects. The technology could (and I say could because it is too early to drill-down any design specs) be as simple as a Napster/Limewire interface (I only use this example because I figure, perhaps wrongly, that many of you here have at least seen this software). THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE TO FACILITATE THE CUSTOMER, NOT TO "GET RICH" FROM. As soon as people start talking about this as a "business plan" or as the "future profit center" blah blah it's over, we've failed. The OPEN part of this system is what would give it it's INCREDIBLE power, and would be OUR DISRUPTIVE ANSWER TO THE WIRES PREVIOUS DISRUPTIVE BUSINESSES OF ALLOWING ORDER GATHERING AND DIRECT SHIP.

WE WILL NOT CREATE ANOTHER WIRE!! This will be a system run BY FLORIST, FOR FLORISTS and nothing else. The tech development would be cheap, although time consuming...but could you imagine the upside if a system was created? In one stroke we have taken control back from the WS AND solved the messy "out-of-area" problem that plagues any shop that now wants to disconnect from the wires.

Finally, *imagine* the publicity this system would get from the local papers (forget about national pubs they are bought and paid for by corporate America), and among many tech users. Its the classic David v. Goliath story. It is, in my mind, THE ONLY POSSIBLE ROAD TO TAKE to try to help the small-to mid-sized florist to survive the coming onslaught of local fulfilling centers and direct shippers.

Yes, sure, it all sounds pie-in-the-sky, but I would really like to hear any debate any of you here might have for/against such a system. Its getting late and I am tired, but its not like this couldn't happen. I hope if nothing else it might get some of you thinking about the possibility of regaining control back from the wires before they completely destroy the local bouquet business.

- mark

P.S. flowerknife+us. please consider this IE add-on for spell-checking, its free and has no ad-ware...I really think your fine words would have considerably more impact with less spelling errors...call me old-fashioned but I still think spelling and grammar are important when crafting a persuasive message.
 
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12BucksFor2Dozon said:


Yes, sure, it all sounds pie-in-the-sky, but I would really like to hear any debate any of you here might have for/against such a system. Its getting late and I am tired, but its not like this couldn't happen. I hope if nothing else it might get some of you thinking about the possibility of regaining control back from the wires before they completely destroy the local bouquet business.

- mark

Umm... no Mark, it really does not sound "pie-in-the-sky" to many...

Several of us have been thinking on this very process for some time. Problem is, as I see it, that every time someone comes out with a **plan** everyone else starts to shoot holes in it. I must say, your;s has merrit. The other thing is, that a new plan needs to be developed outside of influence, by like you said a small group, and then laid on the table for those that choose to, to use. No new plan/method will please everyone, but one that solves 7 of the 10 problems would be a good start.

I'm tired too....nite folks...
 
Reply Part #1

flowerknife) Florists have only 3 options to curb or end the abuse they suffer. 1. Leave the wire services altogether. 2. Change wire services. 3. Stop filling for them. #1 is an option for some said:
I agree with Mr C that all florists have 3 options. However, option #1 never has been about insuring or effecting any change in the direction of a WS. Leaving the WS is about self-preservation.It's about not having to accept discounted orders or payment of dues and fees to subsidize someone who is competing against you and showing you how they are going to do it! Too many florists today think that if they apply enough pressure in the right places, the WS will "see the light" and florists will again be able to have input. The only input is the florists checks being mailed "in to" the WS.

And refusing orders has never been a viable alternative. No matter how you spin it, it not only inhibits the sender of the order,but the customer never understands these "internal wars" and the fact of the recipient not getting the flowers only continues to generate 3 unhappy people everytime - the customer who sent the flowers, the recipient who didn't get them and the OG or florist who tried to transmit the order. The industry loses!

Yes, Mr C, florists are prisoners. The vast majority are not willing to do what is necessary to free themselves. Pure and simple. It's not about filling or not filling. IT IS ABOUT WALKING AWAY.
 
Reply Part #2

12BucksFor2Dozon said:
What needs to happen at this point of time is something akin to the "open source software" (OSS) movement.

Why do I bring up this seemingly unrelated topic? Because I see THIS HISTORY as THE FUTURE of our industry. What we need is to start competing against the hegemony of the WSs for delivering out-of-area orders. I have been advocating that we all get out of the wire-sending business, but I can now see that this answer is too simplistic for many here. Your long history of handling out-of-area orders is a viable revenue stream and should not be discounted. So here what is currently swimming through my mind...

We need to create a FREE, OPEN system to put out-of-areas on, to be filled by a shop in the area that is necessary. This system would be FREE to any registered and verified florist, and the software would be OPEN SOURCE to eliminate anyone's megaloma....

WE WILL NOT CREATE ANOTHER WIRE!! This will be a system run BY FLORIST, FOR FLORISTS and nothing else.

12 Buck, your comments are all well directed, however, any debate about OSS (open source software) can not even begin until you settle the debate on the subject of commissions. It is commissions that brought in all the outsiders and it is the commissions and rebates that keep them all around us. You can't solve the industry problem unless you first solve the question of commissions. You can't have a 20-80 program and expect to get rid of OGing. You can't talk about 25-75 or 15-85 or even 10-90 as possible solutions and expect that pure OG's are not still going to be around to get between the florists and the customers. The financial reward is still greater to send rahter than fill. The only way is 0-100!!! The sad thing about this aspect of any debate is, that FLORISTS will ALL do better on 0-100 commission eventually and that includes FLORISTS that are OGING. Why, you ask? Because it gets rid of the pure OG's as their competition. A pure OG can not survive on only a sending fee and if all florists decided to accept only undiscounted orders, the pure OG's would be gone almost overnight or would have to decide to ship flowers in a box and there would be too many people doing that for them to survive there either.

And as for technology that would be free and open, please Mark, think about this for a minute. The reason many florists can't seem to move away is the sending system they CURRENTLY have. These people don't want to give up THEIR system for someone elses. THEY want any new system to conform to the requirements of sending and receiving of THEIR current equipment. And we know that's not possible. And the second sad thing about these discussions of debates is that new technology isn't really needed. You can already find directories on the internet that already include FAX numbers and e-mail addresses so communications can be sent. These same directories also have links to florists websites so anyone sending orders can actually see what kind of a florist they are sending to. And standard computer, off the shelf, can go to these directories and send communications to these forists today and if the receiving florist really insisted on "seamless" entry, the order could be transmitted through their website - if they weren't connected to the WS directly into their current equipement. The answer is provide a central point for a data base of florists and make everyone come up with their own solution to get to that point.

So 12 buck, please don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone on these boards really wants to eleminate the WS and come up with a OSS approach. Many of these people can not even imagine how they would function without a "clearinghouse" let alone being able to send and receive orders that are undiscounted. The DEBATE never goes very far when these 2 subjects are brought up. And if you think I'm mistaken about this, maybe someone can explain why any attempt at supposedly providing independent alternatives to the other WS are all connected to the same 20-80 programs as in the past and no one is willing to depart from that concept??
 
Griff said:
The answer is provide a central point for a data base of florists

Done....

Griff said:
And if you think I'm mistaken about this, maybe someone can explain why any attempt at supposedly providing independent alternatives to the other WS are all connected to the same 20-80 programs as in the past and no one is willing to depart from that concept??
Again.... *almost*done...

And done so that those wishing to go 0-100 can and those that still feel the need to use some other avenue can too...all in one database...

The problem really arises when you tell folks it'll cost them a few bucks. Monitoring, maintaining and furthering this type of network is not free, and the truth is, we need alot more than the 600+ members of FlowerChat to make it fly...

You will never get everybody off the WS tit, but you will see many of the best florists in the country decide that ethics are more important than dollars and eventually this will all come together....
 
Griff said:
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So 12 buck, please don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone on these boards really wants to eliminate the WS and come up with a OSS approach. Many of these people can not even imagine how they would function without a "clearinghouse" let alone being able to send and receive orders that are intersected. The DEBATE never goes very far when these 2 subjects are brought up. And if you think I'm mistaken about this, maybe someone can explain why any attempt at supposedly providing independent alternatives to the other WS are all connected to the same 20-80 programs as in the past and no one is willing to depart from that concept??
Griff, thanks for your input...as always many of your thoughts echo mine and you bring up 2 great points that perhaps I have the glimmers of a solution for.

1. The "clearinghouse" would be the server that everyone tied into, through either a web-interface or a client-server setup (the client-server would be perhaps more secure), or perhaps similar to ebay (more on that later). All it need do is log orders and then display them to be "bid on" (again, later) by a fulfilling florist. No OGs would be allowed access to this server, and for sure the OS florists in the group would have a keen eye on this. Its like the concept of bugs in OSS...the saying is "all bugs are shallow when so many eyeballs are watching for them". I KNOW that the same would be true of OGs and "Real Florists". The tech to create a server that logged and displayed orders is quite simple (I created such a client-server system at AT&T in Jacksonville in the late 90's, it took less then 2 months using the RAD tool C++ Builder).

2. No doubt the commission debate could be a contentious one. *I* truly believe that the originating florist deserves something for the effort of servicing the customer, just like any salesman is owed a commission for his effort. BUT, perhaps we could look at this creatively and MAKE THE FUFULLING FLORISTS BID LOW FOR THE ORDER! Think of it as a reverse EBAY...the "lowest" bidder gets the order and the sending florist gets the spread. This automatically rewards "efficient" florists, those who purchase well and could afford to fill a dozen reds w/ vase at $29 and still make a good profit. I'll bet you have never heard THAT solution before. Creative thinking is what is needed here, but not complicated thinking.

I believe with all my heart that over the next 3-5 years florist in DROVES are going to finally figure out that TFTD have become their competition, not "partners", and will be leaving them, looking for an alternative. What will NOT work is another attempt to recreate the past WS glory. We need fresh, modern ideas, and the willingness to try something that is NOT what was before. This is the whole secret behind "disruptive technologies" and why is so HARD for existing companies to come up with and/or compete against newer companies that deploy such strange and seemingly wrong-headed ideas.

A disruptive technology is a new technological innovation, product, or service that eventually overturns the existing dominant technology in the market, despite the fact that the disruptive technology is both radically different from the leading technology and that it often initially performs worse than the leading technology according to existing measures of performance. A disruptive technology comes to dominate an existing market by either filling a role in a new market that the older technology could not fill (as more expensive, lower capacity but smaller-sized hard disks did for newly developed notebook computers in the 1980s) or by successively moving up-market through performance improvements until finally displacing the market incumbents (as digital photography has come to replace film photography).
Please, anyone, READ THIS BOOK! Abstract what it saying about the various other industries FOR THE FLORIST INDUSTRY. There are deep truths contained in the ideas within it. I love the above bold, italicized part, because it tells that the new system WILL INITIAL LOOK AND PERFORM WORSE THAN THE EXISTING SYSTEM. This is exactly what a FREE and OPEN wire system would do! Here is one more quote from his book....

"Generally, disruptive innovations were technologically straightforward, consisting of off-the-shelf components put together in a product architecture that was often simpler than prior approaches. They offered less of what customers in established markets wanted and so could rarely be initially employed there. They offered a different package of attributes valued only in emerging markets remote from, and unimportant to, the mainstream."

This is a blueprint for the OSS system to be developed! Make is simple, make it free, make it OPEN...build it, THEY WILL COME!
 
12BucksFor2Dozon said:
2. No doubt the commission debate could be a contentious one. *I* truly believe that the originating florist deserves something for the effort of servicing the customer, just like any salesman is owed a commission for his effort. BUT, perhaps we could look at this creatively and MAKE THE FUFULLING FLORISTS BID LOW FOR THE ORDER! Think of it as a reverse EBAY...the "lowest" bidder gets the order and the sending florist gets the spread. This automatically rewards "efficient" florists, those who purchase well and could afford to fill a dozen reds w/ vase at $29 and still make a good profit. I'll bet you have never heard THAT solution before. Creative thinking is what is needed here, but not complicated thinking.

Oh my.......this means that in the bigger the cities that I send orders to, the better commission I'll get (100 florists bidding for my little order), and if you have to send an order to me (I'm the only game in town) I can bid high.....you get no commission from me!! I like that plan, but don't think it will fly either!
 
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