FTD out of roses?

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Thank you Lori for clarifying the point I was trying to make.

And that philosophy of large companies creates big problems for small companies like yours and mine. All they have to do is lure our customers away by big unrealistic promises, and then give them a few offers they can't pass up.

We don't have that luxury. We can't afford not to deliver on our promises. We need our customers coming back to us for many years.



RC

 

[goldfish]

Even with many complaints it seems there marketing and price points still drive business there way. I'm guessing they have many happy customers.

People don't see much difference between local florists and Internet "florists" in terms of the qualities of products and services they receive. Why don't they see the difference? Because there isn't any. Not much anyway.

The biggest problem I see in this industry (or to some extent in this forum) is that of self-denial. The bottom line is that if more and more consumers are buying flowers from supermarkets, Proflowers, FTD.com, etc, that's because for one reason or the other, they are "better" than us local florists. We can't keep demonizing them just to console our feelings.

 

[bloomz]

People don't see much difference between local florists and Internet "florists" in terms of the qualities of products and services they receive. Why don't they see the difference? Because there isn't any. Not much anyway.

The biggest problem I see in this industry (or to some extent in this forum) is that of self-denial. The bottom line is that if more and more consumers are buying flowers from supermarkets, Proflowers, FTD.com, etc, that's because for one reason or the other, they are "better" than us local florists. We can't keep demonizing them just to console our feelings.

Excellent point - demonizing them up in here doesn't change a thing out in consumerland.

 

[lori042499]

People don't see much difference between local florists and Internet "florists" in terms of the qualities of products and services they receive. Why don't they see the difference? Because there isn't any. Not much anyway.

The biggest problem I see in this industry (or to some extent in this forum) is that of self-denial. The bottom line is that if more and more consumers are buying flowers from supermarkets, Proflowers, FTD.com, etc, that's because for one reason or the other, they are "better" than us local florists. We can't keep demonizing them just to console our feelings.

There are three or four points they are not better than us in....

one is design, not that that is important to most flower buyers.

two is care and handling, our flowers may start out the same quality, but after a few days its a whole different ballpark. The consumer that gets the flowers on the first day at a BB may not see a whole lot of difference, but they do notice when they get flowers that are a few days older.

Because of the 2nd point we have better consistancy in quality...

We deliver....

The bottom two are really the ones we should be concentrating on to get the customer that purchases at the grocery store. Especially the consistancy one...

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Know what??....

FTD is acting like a bunch of "no name" companies now, with the same "attitude" towards it's customers as the rest.
They DON'T care about their customers, and they DON'T care about their florists, and they DON'T care, whether WE care or not!!
It's dog eat dog, and for those of you that consider FTD a "partner" are on the wrong side of sanity.
There are NO "friendships" in business.....florists have GOT to learn that it's ALL about business, and has little to do with skillsets, and emotional attachments.
Of COURSE, those shops that DO demonstrate business, design, & service WILL be still here, when the rest are sunk, regardless of the "competition"!!
IF FTD/TF makes you some money it would be ridiculous to give it up...however, the moment that FTD/TF sinks YOUR shop(s) into negative territory, run, do NOT walk...RUN!!
For some shops, this happened long ago, for some shops, just recently, BUT, KEEP A CLOSE EYE on YOUR bottom line with the wire services....
They are NOT your friends OR allies.

 

[CHR]

consumers are buying flowers from supermarkets, Proflowers, FTD.com, etc, that's because for one reason or the other, they are "better" than us local florists.

Here's where I think consumers believe they're 'better':
Supermarkets & Big Boxes: 'All hours' convenience, foot traffic, cash & carry prices
Proflowers: Marketing, Advertising, Price points, convenience
FTD. com, 1-800, TF: Marketing, Advertising, convenience, Price points for drop-ship flowers.

Have you read Amy Stewart's 12 Reasons to shop at a Local Florist? We have our own list of why we're 'better', but do a fairly poor job of conveying them as a group.

 

[CHR]

my last fiscal year ending August 31st, showed a 17.4% sales increase over the previous year, 12.2% NET and thats AFTER/including my salary.

That's a terrific level of growth!

Since your business has products & services not offered by most of us (gallery, art classes, extensive giftware lines), did success in those categories strongly influence the sales increase? In fresh flower sales, was it a particular segment that shined (weddings, events, cash & carry, funeral, etc...?)

 

[lori042499]

FTD is acting like a bunch of "no name" companies now, with the same "attitude" towards it's customers as the rest.
They DON'T care about their customers, and they DON'T care about their florists, and they DON'T care, whether WE care or not!!
It's dog eat dog, and for those of you that consider FTD a "partner" are on the wrong side of sanity.
There are NO "friendships" in business.....florists have GOT to learn that it's ALL about business, and has little to do with skillsets, and emotional attachments.
Of COURSE, those shops that DO demonstrate business, design, & service WILL be still here, when the rest are sunk, regardless of the "competition"!!
IF FTD/TF makes you some money it would be ridiculous to give it up...however, the moment that FTD/TF sinks YOUR shop(s) into negative territory, run, do NOT walk...RUN!!
For some shops, this happened long ago, for some shops, just recently, BUT, KEEP A CLOSE EYE on YOUR bottom line with the wire services....
They are NOT your friends OR allies.

This is the full truth. You absolutly need to watch every penny and cent with all wireservices....go through statements with a fine tooth comb and drop any and all extras that are costing you money....it does not make sense to keep any service that you can not recoup your fees on...and by all means get your websites optimized especially if you are opaying a WS for them.

 

[goldfish]

Let me play the devil's advocate here...

one is design, not that that is important to most flower buyers.

I respectfully disagree. Of course there are many local florists who do unique, distinctive arrangements. But most are either incapable of making distinctive arrangements or unwilling to make them. Sorry if I sound insulting, but as far as I can see, that's the truth.

if in doubt, here's a test any of us can do. Take one of our everyday arrangements and place it right next to a 1-800-flowers arrangement with the same value. Ask anyone which design they like better.

You might be surprized to find that, in the case for most local florists, people may not see a difference.

This test is not hypothetical. Actually, I did it right after I took over the operation of this store two years ago (I wasn't a florist by the way). I wanted to convince our designers that, contrary to what they might have fantasized, their designs weren't distinctive enough. Yeah, it was mean, but we can't run the business if we are blind to our weakness.

two is care and handling, our flowers may start out the same quality, but after a few days its a whole different ballpark. The consumer that gets the flowers on the first day at a BB may not see a whole lot of difference, but they do notice when they get flowers that are a few days older....

I agree that's the way it should be. But in reality, flower qualities of many (if not most) local florists are bad. Really bad. I'd even say that it's as bad as supermarkets'.

It's not difficult to explain why the qualities of local florists' flowers are bad. The main reason is that these florists purchase flowers based on the prices only. They almost always go after the cheapest flowers.

Secondly, especially for micro florists, the sales turnover is too low. Ideally, every flower we purchase should be sold within a few days. But who among us can honestly say that's what we always do? How many days are we keeping some of the flowers in fridge? Or for that matter, how many days are our wholesalers keeping these flowers in their fridge?

I really, really hate to say this... but, you know, ProFlower's ad does have a point. And consumers can see that, no matter how hard we want to deny it.

Because of the 2nd point we have better consistancy in quality...

As far as I know, qualities of local florists are totally inconsistent. In fact it's not easy to control the quality of fresh flowers when the sales volume is low. Same can be said of most local wholesalers.

We deliver...

One of our local supermarkets (STOP&SHOP) delivers too. They are even a member of FTD. They do an OK job.

The bottom two are really the ones we should be concentrating on to get the customer that purchases at the grocery store. Especially the consistancy one...

I agree. But the point I really wanted to make is that it's time for some of us to wake up and smell the coffee. In my humble opinion, it's not FTD or ProFlowers or 1800 or any "stupid" florists that are killing our business. If we want to find out who is hurting our own business, all we have to do is to look at the mirror.

Many local florists are doing so many things wrong. By saing this, I don't exclude our own store. I hope we've improved for the last two years, but I think it will take another year or so to change all the bad habits.

 

[goldfish]

Here's where I think consumers believe they're 'better':
Supermarkets & Big Boxes: 'All hours' convenience, foot traffic, cash & carry prices
Proflowers: Marketing, Advertising, Price points, convenience
FTD. com, 1-800, TF: Marketing, Advertising, convenience, Price points for drop-ship flowers.

Here's my take...

Supermarkets: Everything you mentioned PLUS low-expectation from customers in terms of quality. Supermarket flowers are expected to be bad, which is a big advantage compared to florists' flowers which are expected to be in better quality.

ProFlowers: I'd also add Acceptable Quality and Guarantee. If you haven't ordered flowers from ProFlowers, you might want to try. They are not bad. I've seen worse in some of our wholesaler's flowers.

FTD/TF/1800: There's one more factor: peace of mind. When a consumer purchases something over the Internet, they play safe by choosing a well-known company. Even when they call, they still prefer to call a well-known company, rather than a small florist in a distant town.

Have you read Amy Stewart's 12 Reasons to shop at a Local Florist? We have our own list of why we're 'better', but do a fairly poor job of conveying them as a group.

I just read. They are all good, with one problem: these lists seem to be basically a flower-lover's (Amy's) wish-lists, not the reality of what an average local florist does everyday.

For instance #1 "Our flowers are better" (than supermarket flowers). True, *some* local florists sell high-quality, "up-scale" flowers. But I suspect they are minority. For various reasons, many local florists can't or won't purchase high-quality up-scale flowers. These florists tend to cater to the general public, not necessarily to a niche market of flower lovers like her.

 

[lori042499]

Here's my take...

Supermarkets: Everything you mentioned PLUS low-expectation from customers in terms of quality. Supermarket flowers are expected to be bad, which is a big advantage compared to florists' flowers which are expected to be in better quality.

ProFlowers: I'd also add Acceptable Quality and Guarantee. If you haven't ordered flowers from ProFlowers, you might want to try. They are not bad. I've seen worse in some of our wholesaler's flowers.

FTD/TF/1800: There's one more factor: peace of mind. When a consumer purchases something over the Internet, they play safe by choosing a well-known company. Even when they call, they still prefer to call a well-known company, rather than a small florist in a distant town.



I just read. They are all good, with one problem: these lists seem to be basically a flower-lover's (Amy's) wish-lists, not the reality of what an average local florist does everyday.

For instance #1 "Our flowers are better" (than supermarket flowers). True, *some* local florists sell high-quality, "up-scale" flowers. But I suspect they are minority. For various reasons, many local florists can't or won't purchase high-quality up-scale flowers. These florists tend to cater to the general public, not necessarily to a niche market of flower lovers like her.

In my small town, I will veture to say that 3 of the 6 florists in town(myself being one of them) carry the best flowers that are available to us. My shop probably carries the best of the high end flowers and the largest variety. The rest carry the basic flowers of pretty good to ok quality. I try to bargain shop on the things that last longer poms, carns, alstro. I can usually tell if they are such a good buy because they are old. Sometimes I get burned. Generally those are just for the crappy 30.00 wire ins and I have to keep the price down. I do not use the stuff I get burned on I get credit. I do pay out the nose for the better high quality stuff because there is no sense in buying highend flowers at a bargain price.

 

[bloomz]

Let me play the devil's advocate here...

I respectfully disagree. Of course there are many local florists who do unique, distinctive arrangements. But most are either incapable of making distinctive arrangements or unwilling to make them. Sorry if I sound insulting, but as far as I can see, that's the truth.

if in doubt, here's a test any of us can do. Take one of our everyday arrangements and place it right next to a 1-800-flowers arrangement with the same value. Ask anyone which design they like better.

You might be surprized to find that, in the case for most local florists, people may not see a difference.

This test is not hypothetical. Actually, I did it right after I took over the operation of this store two years ago (I wasn't a florist by the way). I wanted to convince our designers that, contrary to what they might have fantasized, their designs weren't distinctive enough. Yeah, it was mean, but we can't run the business if we are blind to our weakness.



I agree that's the way it should be. But in reality, flower qualities of many (if not most) local florists are bad. Really bad. I'd even say that it's as bad as supermarkets'.

It's not difficult to explain why the qualities of local florists' flowers are bad. The main reason is that these florists purchase flowers based on the prices only. They almost always go after the cheapest flowers.

Secondly, especially for micro florists, the sales turnover is too low. Ideally, every flower we purchase should be sold within a few days. But who among us can honestly say that's what we always do? How many days are we keeping some of the flowers in fridge? Or for that matter, how many days are our wholesalers keeping these flowers in their fridge?

I really, really hate to say this... but, you know, ProFlower's ad does have a point. And consumers can see that, no matter how hard we want to deny it.

As far as I know, qualities of local florists are totally inconsistent. In fact it's not easy to control the quality of fresh flowers when the sales volume is low. Same can be said of most local wholesalers.

One of our local supermarkets (STOP&SHOP) delivers too. They are even a member of FTD. They do an OK job.

I agree. But the point I really wanted to make is that it's time for some of us to wake up and smell the coffee. In my humble opinion, it's not FTD or ProFlowers or 1800 or any "stupid" florists that are killing our business. If we want to find out who is hurting our own business, all we have to do is to look at the mirror.

Many local florists are doing so many things wrong. By saing this, I don't exclude our own store. I hope we've improved for the last two years, but I think it will take another year or so to change all the bad habits.

Excellent post and excellent points - I would shoot a guess that at least half of the flowershops in America (very conservative guess at that) are what I would call substandard, with way less than the freshest flowers.

I actually wish they would hurry up and go out of business because they also do huge damage to the industry - and are why people buy at Supermarkets - thinking "flowers don't last anyway, so why buy expensive ones?"

I sure wish we could get freshness dating on boxes - nothing stays in our store over a week, yet I know much of the stuff we get probably already has too much time on it before we get and prep it, as well as lousy cold chain management. And at Valentine's Day we all get the worst roses of the year, held for ridiculously long times before getting sent out to retailers.

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

Excellent post and excellent points - I would shoot a guess that at least half of the flowershops in America (very conservative guess at that) are what I would call substandard, with way less than the freshest flowers.

I actually wish they would hurry up and go out of business because they also do huge damage to the industry - and are why people buy at Supermarkets - thinking "flowers don't last anyway, so why buy expensive ones?"

I sure wish we could get freshness dating on boxes - nothing stays in our store over a week, yet I know much of the stuff we get probably already has too much time on it before we get and prep it, as well as lousy cold chain management. And at Valentine's Day we all get the worst roses of the year, held for ridiculously long times before getting sent out to retailers.

Dang, in TOTAL agreement with JB...again.

1st paragraph: JB actually using the word CONSERVATIVE in a positive manor...but dead on right.

2nd P: Sad to say, but yea...some shops are doing more harm than good. BUT - a small point of disagreement here - we NEED to EDUCATE the CONsumer about flowers, longevity, REALISTIC expectations on how long a variety will last. This is a HUGE problem - especially with "7 day freshness guarantees" being put out there.

3rd P: I have RETURNED 1000 or more Roses on a V-day if they come in crappy. My wholesalers are learning NOT to send me crap, I do NOT nor can afford to put up with it. EVERY STEM is checked...no crap.

- Herb

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

Dang, in TOTAL agreement with JB...again.

1st paragraph: JB actually using the word CONSERVATIVE in a positive manor...but dead on right.

2nd P: Sad to say, but yea...some shops are doing more harm than good. BUT - a small point of disagreement here - we NEED to EDUCATE the CONsumer about flowers, longevity, REALISTIC expectations on how long a variety will last. This is a HUGE problem - especially with "7 day freshness guarantees" being put out there.

3rd P: I have RETURNED 1000 or more Roses on a V-day if they come in crappy. My wholesalers are learning NOT to send me crap, I do NOT nor can afford to put up with it. EVERY STEM is checked...no crap.

- Herb

Kind of "pees" you off a little doesn't it?? (agreeing with Jon)
There are TOO many shops, with TOO LITTLE understanding of this business...better they are gone!!
Do NOT, for one lapse of a split second, think that selling sub-standard product to the consumer does NOT go un-noticed, and THOSE are the VERY SHOPS that WILL 1) disappear soon, and 2) disappear sooner!!
IF a customer says "your flowers died way too soon", you'd better absorb the wake up call, and dang fast, and make SURE your flowers can stand the test of time shelf life!
The proverb " you have only ONE CHANCE" to make a great impression on customers that DO choose to come to YOUR shops, EMPHASIS "HAVE"...if you blow it, change emphasis to "HAD".
Betcha YOU wouldn't settle for crap...what makes you think your customers would??
STILL kinda pees me off that we're agreeing with JB!!oke:oke: