FTD's "new" direction?
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steve
Well-Known Member
Everything you wrote there makes since Boss and one would think Teleflora has to make a move soon as they are losing ground also . So having said that were does that leave the independent florist if we continue to do nothing?
Ya know . . . the FTD U thing would have been a great idea 5 or 10 years ago . . . for florists who aspired to be FTD. Unfortunately, all too many florists who are now FTD were allowed to use their canceled check as their only diploma. And what we see today is partially the result of that flawed thinking.
I don't think that the "New Direction" is going to save FTD from the inevitable. IMHO nothing short of a change of management philosophy that would get them back to the basics that built them could do that. And that's just not going to happen.
They still refuse to recognize what has supported and subsidized all of their other "New Directions". They, apparently, are victims of their own BS. They seem to believe their own "cooked books". I look for the "crutch" that has kept them afloat through the last few years of attempts to morph into an internet overpriced junk "dime store" to completely fall out from under them during the next 12-24 months.
I don't think that the "New Direction" is going to save FTD from the inevitable. IMHO nothing short of a change of management philosophy that would get them back to the basics that built them could do that. And that's just not going to happen.
They still refuse to recognize what has supported and subsidized all of their other "New Directions". They, apparently, are victims of their own BS. They seem to believe their own "cooked books". I look for the "crutch" that has kept them afloat through the last few years of attempts to morph into an internet overpriced junk "dime store" to completely fall out from under them during the next 12-24 months.
From a different angle:
Perhaps this new direction can be of some benefit to florists? We've long bemoaned the mass-marketer's degradation of the image of flowers, cheapening them into a nickel & dime commodity with low prices, inexperienced labour and poor designs.
Recently, some grocery chains have improved their image, hired career florists, offered same-day delivery, and even started offering wedding & funeral services. Flowers Canada long ago decided to include grocery stores and bucket shops in their membership. Since these retailers aren't going away, isn't it somewhat positive that they might at least improve their image and hopefully drag the concept of floral gifting out of the mudhole created by low-end florists and poorly run floral departments of mass-market retailers?
Since they are handling an increasing percentage of the retail flower sales in North America, and are perceived by many as being the low-end of the industry, isn't it nice to see them taking steps to improve?
What will this mean for retail florists? Will we have to further raise the bar to keep the distance between grocery & floristry?
<insert Dazeal comment about unique floral products here>
Let's hear your thoughts ...
Ryan
Perhaps this new direction can be of some benefit to florists? We've long bemoaned the mass-marketer's degradation of the image of flowers, cheapening them into a nickel & dime commodity with low prices, inexperienced labour and poor designs.
Recently, some grocery chains have improved their image, hired career florists, offered same-day delivery, and even started offering wedding & funeral services. Flowers Canada long ago decided to include grocery stores and bucket shops in their membership. Since these retailers aren't going away, isn't it somewhat positive that they might at least improve their image and hopefully drag the concept of floral gifting out of the mudhole created by low-end florists and poorly run floral departments of mass-market retailers?
Since they are handling an increasing percentage of the retail flower sales in North America, and are perceived by many as being the low-end of the industry, isn't it nice to see them taking steps to improve?
What will this mean for retail florists? Will we have to further raise the bar to keep the distance between grocery & floristry?
<insert Dazeal comment about unique floral products here>
Let's hear your thoughts ...
Ryan
12BucksFor2Dozon
New Member
FTD is, IMO, toast. This move is simply a desperate attempt to take a stab at what they see as the last "hail-mary" attempt to stay relevant in an age where the "T" in FTD (transmission) has a value quickly approaching $0.00. What baffles me is why supermarkets would even *consider* co-branding with FTD?? I would think that most supermarket chains would be wary of introducing a potential competitor into its aisles...
Like I've said before...there was a time where it was *worth* the fees to send flowers to loved ones across our great nation, but that is no longer the case. The internet has made it basically free to find a local florist or direct ship wherever, thus making FTD a horse carriage in today's information superhighway.
Like I've said before...there was a time where it was *worth* the fees to send flowers to loved ones across our great nation, but that is no longer the case. The internet has made it basically free to find a local florist or direct ship wherever, thus making FTD a horse carriage in today's information superhighway.
I think that FTD is going to have to hire some designers before they're going to be able to improve any grocery client's image.
It seems to me that most of the "designs" that they've come up with since the last selection guide (whether ftd.com or codified) have either been drop-in or very simple elementary "designs" (and I use that term loosely).
One would almost think that they were intentionally designed for untrained employees with no floral experience to put together for sale. You gotta wonder what kind of designer would allow FTD to put his/her name on most of those "designs". It's been obvious for a while that either their remaining designers just aren't very good or they're looking for a way to sell flowers without designers. I suspect an element of both.
It seems to me that most of the "designs" that they've come up with since the last selection guide (whether ftd.com or codified) have either been drop-in or very simple elementary "designs" (and I use that term loosely).
One would almost think that they were intentionally designed for untrained employees with no floral experience to put together for sale. You gotta wonder what kind of designer would allow FTD to put his/her name on most of those "designs". It's been obvious for a while that either their remaining designers just aren't very good or they're looking for a way to sell flowers without designers. I suspect an element of both.
What effort do you see in regard to the low-end florists? AFAICT these educational efforts are strictly geared towards and offered to mass marketers.Infinite said:
Also in the mix is a selection of FTD branded loose bouquets strictly for supers and mass-marketers.
If a consumer believes the FTD brand stands for 'florist quality' what reason do they then have to buy 'FTD' from a traditional shop when supers are so convenient and work on smaller margins?
If FTD reaches its goal of being synonymous with grocery store flowers, the further we can get from their brand, the better our chances to distinguish ourselves will be.
CHR said:
Hence my comment about florists having to raise the bar. Long gone are the days of FTD doing it for us ... now, they are doing it for the supers
And yes, I only want to be known by the "Martin's" brand, not FTD, TF, 800, PF, Rio, or anyone else. When my customers only think "Martin's" for flowers, then I've succeeded. I'm sure as hell not going to wait for FTD to make that happen
Ryan
Yes, I left this oput of my original comments, but Cathy is reffering to the "FTD Gold Bqt" Special wrap, Gold Logo, complete with care and "Design Tip's" made ONLY for the MASSmarkets....CHR said:
BTW... I agree with Ryans comments almost completely...guess that why he's the "Infinite One"...
FTD's design team is steeped in experience and ability so that's not an issue.hcflorist said:
There are three schools of thought as to why designs have been 'dumbed down':
1) The average consumer doesn't care about design and just wants flowers. If you believe this, then PF and bunched flowers win. OR
2) 'Designed arrangements' can't be shipped in a box well and that's the area FTD is most interested in growing. Michael Skaff's signature bouquets are not made by 'designers' but by bouquet assemblers. FTD then only needs one designerr and a whole lot of low-priced manual labor. OR
3) The average florist can't recreate the more artistic, unique designs at the local level. On a national scale, I believe that's true. BUT, celebrating signature styles and unique varieties carried by individual stores is antithetical to the type of national advertising FTD does. They need Re-creativity, not creativity.
Sell flowers without designers? For the most part, I believe that's right.
Supermarkets work on such a high margin I just wonder how FTD will make any money out of this. The growers and importers spend a fortune dancing to the supermarkets needs and though the volume is high you gotta wonder how anyone makes money. Will the supermarkets sell higher priced bouquets on a daily basis? I doubt that. Where does FTD's cut come from? membership fees?
I do agree that raising the bar in floral in supermarkets will be a great thing for the rest of the industry. We have seen that here at our biggest grocery store Publix. They had the worse floral depts. for years and it was a huge embarrassment since they were in the land of flower imports. But one bouquet company Natures Flowers changed all that and with great success.
I do agree that raising the bar in floral in supermarkets will be a great thing for the rest of the industry. We have seen that here at our biggest grocery store Publix. They had the worse floral depts. for years and it was a huge embarrassment since they were in the land of flower imports. But one bouquet company Natures Flowers changed all that and with great success.
12BucksFor2Dozon
New Member
I don't believe that the supermarkets make much, if any, profit from the flower department. At least in my area, they are throwing away up to half the flowers on display. Unless they are buying at 1/10 of what we are paying (and that is a distinct possibility), I just don't see it making them much money.nonbitter said:
PhillyPhlorist
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Agreed. Around here, a local market chain makes very little on their flower sales - they carry a lot of gifts which they DO make money on. I went into one on the 27th of December, and they had BOXES of Poinsettias left - all yellowing by the second. Boy, they HAD to lose money on those!12BucksFor2Dozon said:
But, I still think their floral dept. does make money - if they did not overall, I would think taking up that much space in a VERY tight grocery store would be too much for a "loss-leader"...
- H.
TOTO
New Member
Re: Stupermarkets work on pennies!
Stupermarkets work on small gross profit margins of 2% to 3% in favor of volume.
With FLOWERS, FLOWERING PLANTS, and FOLIAGE, the margins on those average 20% which is BIG MONEY to them.
Even when they use those items as a LOSS LEADER to get mo traffic into their stores, they still glean a few points.
The problem I have is that, EF-DT has chosen their partners and suffice it to say that, IT AIN'T US WEE BEES.
With the new FU University approach, they are modeling themselves after every other FRANCHISE out here which sends their NEW FRANCHISEES to school for 2 to 4 weeks to train them in the ART of operating an idiot proof venture.
One thing I DOO NO is that, STUPERMARKETS don't PAY FOR BRANDS. IN all cases, those vendors actually LEASE SHELF SPACE at these STUPERMARKETS. EYE LEVEL is PREMIUM and at the end of the aisle is PLATINUM.
When Coke or any other BRAND wants to run a PROMO and use the PLATINUM SPACE at the end of the aisle near the entrance, they supply those cases to the STUPERMARKET at BELOW COST plus another 50 to 100 cases FREE.
So, the question I would have is, HOW MUCH IS EF-DT paying the STUPERMARKETS to get THEIR BRAND into those stores?
Because, I sure as heck NO THAT, da STUPERMARKETS ain't about to PAY THEM one red cent up front for a promise and on a WING and A PRAYER.
As to any PISSING MATCH on my part over what they've become and how they continue to USE YOU, well;
Been there and did that! And for any of you folks who are still HANGING ON to any hopes that things will change and they'll make it all better FORE YOU someway/someday, best to get out one of those HUGE GOLF UMBRELLAS and open them up.
Because, and as they say on Broadway; URINE-TOWN and we ain't talking RAINING MEN here.
12BucksFor2Dozon said:
Stupermarkets work on small gross profit margins of 2% to 3% in favor of volume.
With FLOWERS, FLOWERING PLANTS, and FOLIAGE, the margins on those average 20% which is BIG MONEY to them.
Even when they use those items as a LOSS LEADER to get mo traffic into their stores, they still glean a few points.
The problem I have is that, EF-DT has chosen their partners and suffice it to say that, IT AIN'T US WEE BEES.
With the new FU University approach, they are modeling themselves after every other FRANCHISE out here which sends their NEW FRANCHISEES to school for 2 to 4 weeks to train them in the ART of operating an idiot proof venture.
One thing I DOO NO is that, STUPERMARKETS don't PAY FOR BRANDS. IN all cases, those vendors actually LEASE SHELF SPACE at these STUPERMARKETS. EYE LEVEL is PREMIUM and at the end of the aisle is PLATINUM.
When Coke or any other BRAND wants to run a PROMO and use the PLATINUM SPACE at the end of the aisle near the entrance, they supply those cases to the STUPERMARKET at BELOW COST plus another 50 to 100 cases FREE.
So, the question I would have is, HOW MUCH IS EF-DT paying the STUPERMARKETS to get THEIR BRAND into those stores?
Because, I sure as heck NO THAT, da STUPERMARKETS ain't about to PAY THEM one red cent up front for a promise and on a WING and A PRAYER.
As to any PISSING MATCH on my part over what they've become and how they continue to USE YOU, well;
Been there and did that! And for any of you folks who are still HANGING ON to any hopes that things will change and they'll make it all better FORE YOU someway/someday, best to get out one of those HUGE GOLF UMBRELLAS and open them up.
Because, and as they say on Broadway; URINE-TOWN and we ain't talking RAINING MEN here.
Supermarket's Make Big Money
Your local supermarket makes big money on flowers, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY THROW AWAY!
The reason is they operate on "pay per scan" They only pay the supplier for product that actually goes thru the scanners, so if they are hung with huge amounts of leftovers, it's the supplier who eats the loss, not the supermarket.
Your local supermarket makes big money on flowers, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY THROW AWAY!
The reason is they operate on "pay per scan" They only pay the supplier for product that actually goes thru the scanners, so if they are hung with huge amounts of leftovers, it's the supplier who eats the loss, not the supermarket.
flowerknife+us
New Member
I would forward all FTD.coms orders directly to the supermarket who is a member, Let them deal with FTD. Get a taste of what it is really like.
Especially if their are more than one. Send it to the one farthest away from from the delivery address. Let them make the hard choises of what to do with the order.
If FTD is going to help them improve operations. Then the members should make sure they get their moneys worth. Their the ones financing the program.
No matter what the wire services do. they all have to face the problem of who can preform the required tasks without incurring for them an exorbiant expence in cash and reputation.
If given time. all these companys will raise the bar of their operations. If their committed to it.
So the question still remains.As well as its solution.
The solution stares you in the face every time one of their orders prints out.
Do I really need to repete my self after 3 years????
Especially if their are more than one. Send it to the one farthest away from from the delivery address. Let them make the hard choises of what to do with the order.
If FTD is going to help them improve operations. Then the members should make sure they get their moneys worth. Their the ones financing the program.
No matter what the wire services do. they all have to face the problem of who can preform the required tasks without incurring for them an exorbiant expence in cash and reputation.
If given time. all these companys will raise the bar of their operations. If their committed to it.
So the question still remains.As well as its solution.
The solution stares you in the face every time one of their orders prints out.
Do I really need to repete my self after 3 years????
flowerknife+us
New Member
sfox said:
If this were true in all cases. the suppliers would be eating a ton of money. There must be some limit on the volume of dumpage they can eat.
The pay per scan suits the plant business better than Flowers.
I am of the opinion that the product is purchased for a song. At a set price and the store is responsible for the dumpage. They can easily dump 1/3 of it and still clear a higher % than many other Item classifications they stock.
Do the math on the Items you see avaliable. Most shops can compete on many of their items simply by controling their dumpage.
The dump is figured into the price. Only the fickle buying habits of the consumer will make that level go up or down.
It is the Service end of the business that doesn't make alot of sence. The level of personality involved in the servicing of peoples emotions. Doing the job in such a way so as to keep them comming back for more.
The mass markets dumb the consumers level of expectation down While the Florist sells his talents for a song by servicing those whos intrest is removing the florist from the forfront of providing those services. In a mostly unpersonal manor at that.
3rd party vendors CANNOT Exhist without the support of the florist. It is a REALITY.
Supermarkets are not equipted to handle the specialized nature of the work.
Florists cannot re-claim their Industry without each others support.
Nor will they ever make an impact of any relivence unless they work in consert and towards a comon GOAL.
Most of the problem will simply go away with a BIG BANG if they just did what???
Raising the bar? WHEN DOES IT GETS TOO HIGH
Everytime there is a post about the wire services or direct shippers in the flower industry, the standard reply to what is needed to fix the problem is to "raise the bar", ie increase the level of service. And when talking about wire services, it's seems florists are the greatest at figuring out costs associated with belonging to them.
My question is "has anyone actually figured out the costs to raise the bar?" Because in my mind raising the bar means increasing costs. Remember service costs. If you have your employees spend more time on the phone helping a customer, it costs. If you have a clerk work for 30 minutes to create the perfect design with a customer, it costs. If you increase you delivery capablilites to handle special delivery requests, it costs. If you have your staff work to create the unique design so that you can make your flowers stand out as a way of staying ahead, it costs.
Now we all know that the consumer expects florists to offer service. The real issue is how much is the consumer is willing to pay for those services? And by how much, I mean, are they willing to spend $50 a dozen for roses, when they see roses for sale at the Big Box stores for $12.99 for 25 roses? Sure when a florist creates that $50 a dozen roses, they are not the same as the Big Box store, but does the consumer feel that the price being asked is not worth the added service the florists has provided.
And as the direct shippers increase their market share, is the consumer willing to spend their money at florists shops, when they know they are going to have to spend more, or are they willing to accept less service because they are getting a lower price? Remember there is only so much room at the top end of the marketplace. Chevy could not move up to a Mercedes class and expect to sell the same number of cars.
The real problem I see that florists face is that the big companies entering the flower business are working real hard to eliminate costs associated with the old flower business model. And at the same time, florists are working hard on increasing costs as a solution to the problems they are facing. And in the larger business community, corporations that operated on the business model of high levels of customer services are struggling or falling by the wayside. Each is looking to lower costs. Dell computer became the market leader by building great computers for reasonable prices and offering great service after the sale. Today, they are suffering because offering that high level of service costs big money and so they moved the service to third world countries. They tried to keep or increase their service while at the same time keeping costs under control. But the move compounded the problem. And at the same time, the consumer is unwilling to pay higher prices for Dell computers for higher levels of service. Offering great service, doesn't necessarily mean the consumer will spend more for the end product.
These are just my thoughts!
Everytime there is a post about the wire services or direct shippers in the flower industry, the standard reply to what is needed to fix the problem is to "raise the bar", ie increase the level of service. And when talking about wire services, it's seems florists are the greatest at figuring out costs associated with belonging to them.
My question is "has anyone actually figured out the costs to raise the bar?" Because in my mind raising the bar means increasing costs. Remember service costs. If you have your employees spend more time on the phone helping a customer, it costs. If you have a clerk work for 30 minutes to create the perfect design with a customer, it costs. If you increase you delivery capablilites to handle special delivery requests, it costs. If you have your staff work to create the unique design so that you can make your flowers stand out as a way of staying ahead, it costs.
Now we all know that the consumer expects florists to offer service. The real issue is how much is the consumer is willing to pay for those services? And by how much, I mean, are they willing to spend $50 a dozen for roses, when they see roses for sale at the Big Box stores for $12.99 for 25 roses? Sure when a florist creates that $50 a dozen roses, they are not the same as the Big Box store, but does the consumer feel that the price being asked is not worth the added service the florists has provided.
And as the direct shippers increase their market share, is the consumer willing to spend their money at florists shops, when they know they are going to have to spend more, or are they willing to accept less service because they are getting a lower price? Remember there is only so much room at the top end of the marketplace. Chevy could not move up to a Mercedes class and expect to sell the same number of cars.
The real problem I see that florists face is that the big companies entering the flower business are working real hard to eliminate costs associated with the old flower business model. And at the same time, florists are working hard on increasing costs as a solution to the problems they are facing. And in the larger business community, corporations that operated on the business model of high levels of customer services are struggling or falling by the wayside. Each is looking to lower costs. Dell computer became the market leader by building great computers for reasonable prices and offering great service after the sale. Today, they are suffering because offering that high level of service costs big money and so they moved the service to third world countries. They tried to keep or increase their service while at the same time keeping costs under control. But the move compounded the problem. And at the same time, the consumer is unwilling to pay higher prices for Dell computers for higher levels of service. Offering great service, doesn't necessarily mean the consumer will spend more for the end product.
These are just my thoughts!
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