Spoke to TF Canada today; the new guide will be sent out between Oct 1 & 10; it will include a workbook, posters, counter pad, marketing guide; at 449.00 chocolate loonies!!! If you're a member you can see online (sample images) at myteleflora.com; sort of reminds me of FTD's guide.............
FYI re Teleflora's New Selection Guide
- Thread starter Rock
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Do Florists have the option of spreading the $449.00 over 4 months or is it all in one statement?
I guess I should prepare to have more members in late October, early November.
Once again thank you Teleflora for more business.
I guess I should prepare to have more members in late October, early November.
Once again thank you Teleflora for more business.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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The way I SEE IT....Peter's gonna like it...
either ONE or BOTH of the current WS's is gonna price themselves OUT of the marketplace!!
You're going to HAVE TO choose ONE, as oppposed to having membership in BOTH...and YOU will be forced to make that choice!
I only WISH, I could tell you all some of the "politics" that's going on right now...this is NOT the industry it once was, and is NOT the business model that MOST florists can understand!!
BOTH FTD and TF are doing battle for "supremacy" and "may" kill each other in the process...Peter is just gonna eat this up.
1-800-flwrs, FTD, TF, and the likes can ONLY really survive if WE are good little florists, and they KNOW better than that, so THEIR profits centres' DO NOT INCLUDE you and I in the business model!
IF you read the financials of FTD (since they are public, and good for them) there has been hardly ANY profit margins at the florist to florist business, but, other revenues have skyrocketed, and it "appears" that TF's "commitment" to "florists only" will prove not doable for the forseen future, and it's getting real ugly out there!!
I ONLY WISH that MORE people in THIS biz paid more attention to the "ONLY the STRONG WILL SURVIVE" theory!!
IF I may be blunt....I'm no "grunt" for ANY wire service..I AM a willing participant in FTD's business programs as they presently unfold...
Just me, spewing my little brain...... :fdevil:
Mike
either ONE or BOTH of the current WS's is gonna price themselves OUT of the marketplace!!
You're going to HAVE TO choose ONE, as oppposed to having membership in BOTH...and YOU will be forced to make that choice!
I only WISH, I could tell you all some of the "politics" that's going on right now...this is NOT the industry it once was, and is NOT the business model that MOST florists can understand!!
BOTH FTD and TF are doing battle for "supremacy" and "may" kill each other in the process...Peter is just gonna eat this up.
1-800-flwrs, FTD, TF, and the likes can ONLY really survive if WE are good little florists, and they KNOW better than that, so THEIR profits centres' DO NOT INCLUDE you and I in the business model!
IF you read the financials of FTD (since they are public, and good for them) there has been hardly ANY profit margins at the florist to florist business, but, other revenues have skyrocketed, and it "appears" that TF's "commitment" to "florists only" will prove not doable for the forseen future, and it's getting real ugly out there!!
I ONLY WISH that MORE people in THIS biz paid more attention to the "ONLY the STRONG WILL SURVIVE" theory!!
IF I may be blunt....I'm no "grunt" for ANY wire service..I AM a willing participant in FTD's business programs as they presently unfold...
Just me, spewing my little brain...... :fdevil:
Mike
and of course you do realize that FTD is hot on TF's tail. They are in the process of bringing out another selection guide for next year...
This monkey see monkey do business with TF and FTD is really getting ridiculous
This monkey see monkey do business with TF and FTD is really getting ridiculous
Yes, and the sad thing is, it's Florists who literally pay. TF knows they can't raise the monthly fee's without taking heat, so this is a slick way.
Ah! do I need THE BOOK?
I'll just tell TF since they have made my day so easy on the DOVE with their TF selections thanks to Duck 7.0 that I will print off those pictures in COLOR no doubt and stick those printouts in MY OWN BOOK since "I'm a member and I pay for doing THAT"..
:cuckoo:
Or I can download those new pictures without the 400 dollar charge? Hey my Membership fees pay for those PERKS:idear:
I'll just tell TF since they have made my day so easy on the DOVE with their TF selections thanks to Duck 7.0 that I will print off those pictures in COLOR no doubt and stick those printouts in MY OWN BOOK since "I'm a member and I pay for doing THAT"..
:cuckoo:
Or I can download those new pictures without the 400 dollar charge? Hey my Membership fees pay for those PERKS:idear:
Re: Ah! do I need THE BOOK?
With the price of printer inks, it would cost you far more to print the images yourself. Really.
Our shop has been ready for some new images for some time now. We create many of our own. We just shot ten here and with the cost of the flowers and time, the expense was more than the entire new selection guide (in US $.)
How much money have you made off your old book? I think it's about 5 years old which translates to less than $.25 per day per use. And that includes web-ready images as well as those in print.
IMHO the lack of marketing materials (especially high quality images) from smaller wire services helps keep those companies small. Most customers and florists want and need a large array of images from which to buy/sell - not just a few.
Just a thought....
With the price of printer inks, it would cost you far more to print the images yourself. Really.
Our shop has been ready for some new images for some time now. We create many of our own. We just shot ten here and with the cost of the flowers and time, the expense was more than the entire new selection guide (in US $.)
How much money have you made off your old book? I think it's about 5 years old which translates to less than $.25 per day per use. And that includes web-ready images as well as those in print.
IMHO the lack of marketing materials (especially high quality images) from smaller wire services helps keep those companies small. Most customers and florists want and need a large array of images from which to buy/sell - not just a few.
Just a thought....
FTD, I believe, has stated plans to issue (sell) a new selection guide every 2 years or so. For those of us who follow their stock, it's been interesting to read posts of sharholders on various bulletin boards lament that the guide isn't printed every year because it really spikes earnings!
Unfortunately Rosie, I think that is the true reason that they do it. What a cash cow. A forced sell to the members resulting in a huge cash influx. And given the way that corporations work and the need to maintain their bottom line, I would bet that at some point there will be a yearly production of the selection guide. If there are any FTD members left that is.....
and also to answer the question of how much money we have made off of the book? I would say that in our shop we are still running at a negative $300. Unless of course you want to add interest to that wasted money then it would be more. I can honestly say that I have not sold a single arrangement out of the FTD book since it got here. For the shops that do get use out of them great! All the more reason to make them optional...
Are you speaking about all your selection guides or just the FTD one in particular? WE have found the TF book to be a very useful tool.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
- 9,206
- 3,792
- 113
- 72
- State / Prov
- Ontario
REMEMBER THIS....
you DO NOT have to accept the new selection guides when they arrive by mail/courier....should you chose not to!!
So the decision remains....WHICH, if ANY WS are you going to support in full,or in part??
SHOULD you decide to chose ONE or THE OTHER, like you SHOULD, why would you NOT buy the selection guide..and I DON'T mean that they should be printed every year/2 years/3 years etc!!
Books DO wear out, styles DO change, and the problem IS, developing these selection guides takes TWO YEARS!!...it's a LOT of work!!
Maybe we ought to be able to order the WORKROOM manuals ONLY, and perhaps refer to our WS websites when a customer needs to look at stuff!!
This COULD be solved by keeping a PC close to, if not right ON the sales desk (like WE do) and use THAT medium to allow our clients to look through selections!!
STILL, the production of the bible, to keep it fresh, MUST be changed from time to time, and IF you want to be part of the WS game, THEY have to be able to justify all the work, by making MONEY from you guys and girls....
Mike (IMHO)face
you DO NOT have to accept the new selection guides when they arrive by mail/courier....should you chose not to!!
So the decision remains....WHICH, if ANY WS are you going to support in full,or in part??
SHOULD you decide to chose ONE or THE OTHER, like you SHOULD, why would you NOT buy the selection guide..and I DON'T mean that they should be printed every year/2 years/3 years etc!!
Books DO wear out, styles DO change, and the problem IS, developing these selection guides takes TWO YEARS!!...it's a LOT of work!!
Maybe we ought to be able to order the WORKROOM manuals ONLY, and perhaps refer to our WS websites when a customer needs to look at stuff!!
This COULD be solved by keeping a PC close to, if not right ON the sales desk (like WE do) and use THAT medium to allow our clients to look through selections!!
STILL, the production of the bible, to keep it fresh, MUST be changed from time to time, and IF you want to be part of the WS game, THEY have to be able to justify all the work, by making MONEY from you guys and girls....
Mike (IMHO)
faceIt's just a bureacrecy , that needs to do something to justify why its there. The wire services were set up to be a clearing house for orders not a parasitic thing that latches onto your cash flow and sucks it dry, I haven't paid for any selection guides yet and will not be paying for any, they are nothing more than dust collectors. I pay my dues to be able to send and receive orders , don't participate in any of the other garbage( credit cards, containers , etc) . If this was unacceptable to either service , I wouldn't be there. Standup to them , they need you more than you need them.
Lady Biker Florist
Well-Known Member
I find the longevity of the books to be short lived, but especially the workbooks. The FTD sympathy section of the selection guide ALWAYS falls apart. The sympathy section of both books is the most used in our shop and falls apart way before it should. I called FTD one time to complain. They told me extra copies are available for $39.99, but they sent me one at no charge. One year we removed the sympathy section since it is a book of its own to see if this helped and it got wrecked just the same.
The TF sympathy section is just like the rest of the book and lasts longer, being thicker glossy pages. The TF workbook falls apart real quick. I called and complained and they sent me a new workbook and it fell apart real quick too. You should see it. No, maybe you shouldn't. If the new one is going to have the same kind of binder it will be no better. I can't believe more florists have not had problems and complained. It's all in the binder.
We have TF's newest wedding book and that workbook fell apart in a few months too. I called and complained and they sent me a new one. that was over 6 months ago and I haven't opened it yet. I know what's going to happen, I'm trying to hold off.
Ridiculous, Sheesh!
Anyone else have workbook problems like we do? :dunno:
Patty
The TF sympathy section is just like the rest of the book and lasts longer, being thicker glossy pages. The TF workbook falls apart real quick. I called and complained and they sent me a new workbook and it fell apart real quick too. You should see it. No, maybe you shouldn't. If the new one is going to have the same kind of binder it will be no better. I can't believe more florists have not had problems and complained. It's all in the binder.
We have TF's newest wedding book and that workbook fell apart in a few months too. I called and complained and they sent me a new one. that was over 6 months ago and I haven't opened it yet. I know what's going to happen, I'm trying to hold off.
Ridiculous, Sheesh!
Anyone else have workbook problems like we do? :dunno:
Patty
I am refering to the FTD book. Our customers use the TF book alot. They sit side by side on the display counter. The customers open the FTD book, close it and then pick something out of the TF book. I would have to say that this is more the norm than not. In the past year we have recieved maybe 5 FTD specific orders and those have been from FTD.com. I can't remember when the last time I got an FTD specific order from a real shop.
But then again, lets face it. The selection in the TF book is much better when it comes to perceived value. FTD likes to scrunch the flowers too much, in many cases there are little to no greens and when finished you have this little tiny arrangement that costs a lot of money.
Now that is just my opinion....
Another thing in regards to that is the amount of times that I get an order from an FTD shop that asks me to make up a design out of the TF book. Happens a lot...
The arguement that we need to have the book for incoming orders is not a valid one. We can look up the recipe on the merc cd.
The arguement that we need to be able to show pictures to customers of outgoing orders is not valid either. Heck, half the time even when you do that , the flowers recieved don't look anything like what the pic in the book is.
In my shop anyway, a good 90% of the orders that go out, the customer looks in the books and then just says "send something pretty for X$" I would bet that in the majority of the shops in this country that do use the book, maybe 10% of the designs are used. I can't even find alot of the flowers that are in some of those recipes. A while back I posted on the FTD board that I needed to know what a particular type of flower was. It was called for in the recipe and not a single person knew what it was. Even the people on the design board could not tell me. My flower suppliers could not tell me. What the heck are these people thinking when the make up a design for the book that no one can fill? Talk about a waste of time and money...
Jim
Re: Re: Ah! do I need THE BOOK?
IMHO, we teach our members how to market their own business if they want to know, from someone who actually has did it, opposed to using the big 2's crutch. A lot of our members joined our company because they felt their designs would fall outside of the cookie cutter designs they seen in other guides. My goal is to be able to show a shop how to build the local brand, and get feet in the door. I'm not interested in building my brand to the consumer, if I wanted to deal with consumers, I would be in the retail side. A wire service should remain invisable to the consumer.
The big reason some companies remain small is because the big 2 have them so tied to credit card clearning, and other things that have them tied to them for years, (this is done on purpose)some shops don't wish to move away from the comfort zone.
Everytime TF or FTD does something like mentioned above, shops quit them. Another reason some companies remain small is because they wish to, also provide a higher level of service, and quite often other companies aren't even asked to be part of various state functions as Teleflora has it all locked up with their Units etc.
There once was another little company that started with Zero and ended up with 25,000 members, you might have heard of AFS.
If you spent almost as much doing your own designs and images as a selection guide, the difference is with your stuff is you OWN it, not a wire service. When you use a seletion guide you are simply using it under license by a wire service.
In addition we are going to be working with a company to buy some selection guides, it's a matter of picking what source it comes from, either out of Canada or the USA.
Look at all the crap Teleflora sends out, I know I read a ton of newspapers and rarely ever see a ad that's not a co-op group of shops at hoilday time featuring a dishware product. Teleflora has gotten people so hooked on this stupid dishware idea, where people are picking dishware over FLOWERS. Are Florists, dishware stores or Florists? PROMOTE FLOWERS in everyday dishes, affordable dishes to the consumer, what's a couple of Billionaires know about what the average consumer wants? Not a thing.
Try and sell a TF product to a senior citizen sometime who lives on less than a $1000.00 a month, and out of that, they pay rent, they will not buy a 25-30 dish, they want to see flowers, they don't see value in the dish, of course there are some others who do see value in the dishes, I've found lots of these dishes at yard sales and similar places, heck I even bought my dog a Teleflora bowl to drink out of at a yard sale.
Just a thought from someone who has seen both sides of the business.
IMHO, we teach our members how to market their own business if they want to know, from someone who actually has did it, opposed to using the big 2's crutch. A lot of our members joined our company because they felt their designs would fall outside of the cookie cutter designs they seen in other guides. My goal is to be able to show a shop how to build the local brand, and get feet in the door. I'm not interested in building my brand to the consumer, if I wanted to deal with consumers, I would be in the retail side. A wire service should remain invisable to the consumer.
The big reason some companies remain small is because the big 2 have them so tied to credit card clearning, and other things that have them tied to them for years, (this is done on purpose)some shops don't wish to move away from the comfort zone.
Everytime TF or FTD does something like mentioned above, shops quit them. Another reason some companies remain small is because they wish to, also provide a higher level of service, and quite often other companies aren't even asked to be part of various state functions as Teleflora has it all locked up with their Units etc.
There once was another little company that started with Zero and ended up with 25,000 members, you might have heard of AFS.
If you spent almost as much doing your own designs and images as a selection guide, the difference is with your stuff is you OWN it, not a wire service. When you use a seletion guide you are simply using it under license by a wire service.
In addition we are going to be working with a company to buy some selection guides, it's a matter of picking what source it comes from, either out of Canada or the USA.
Look at all the crap Teleflora sends out, I know I read a ton of newspapers and rarely ever see a ad that's not a co-op group of shops at hoilday time featuring a dishware product. Teleflora has gotten people so hooked on this stupid dishware idea, where people are picking dishware over FLOWERS. Are Florists, dishware stores or Florists? PROMOTE FLOWERS in everyday dishes, affordable dishes to the consumer, what's a couple of Billionaires know about what the average consumer wants? Not a thing.
Try and sell a TF product to a senior citizen sometime who lives on less than a $1000.00 a month, and out of that, they pay rent, they will not buy a 25-30 dish, they want to see flowers, they don't see value in the dish, of course there are some others who do see value in the dishes, I've found lots of these dishes at yard sales and similar places, heck I even bought my dog a Teleflora bowl to drink out of at a yard sale.
Just a thought from someone who has seen both sides of the business.
Perhaps the DOJ needs to look at Teleflora and FTD, once they are done putting Martha where she belongs.
Good points Peter!
We carry the smallest amount of keepsakes that we can buy and only at holidays. We don't carry any of the everyday containers. My local customers want flowers not vases and bowls. One thing that I have found is in doing local work here, when a customer buys a $50 arrangement from me they get a nice big full showy arrangement. When we wire out for $50 I have to tell my customers that they are going to get a small arrangement. I fail to understand why so many shops put a lot of inventory dollars into expensive containers. Sure there are the occasional customers that want a fancy bowl or vase but in most cases they ask for them. I buy my vases in bulk so that I get the best prices and rarely pay more than a $1.59 for a nice looking clear glass blown vase. When a customer buys a $50 arrangement they are getting most of that in flowers, not in some tacky looking bowl that costs $8 and has to retail for at least $16.
I had a customer yesterday that came in with pics of an order that we wired out to his father for his 80th birthday. The father is blind so our customer asked for fragrant flowers. He brought the pic in and there were 9 carns, 3 stems of stock, 3 stems of delph, some daisy poms and two stems of alstro in a vase. I sent an ask telling the filling shop that my customer was very unhappy etc.
Their response was that the Vase was a $30 cut glass vase and there was a $5 bow on the arrangement. Huh? Why on earth would a shop think that a blind man with a request of fragrant flowers would want a $30 vase? But I digress, my point was, for $80 here they would get a huge arrangement of fragrant flowers in a minimal cost vase unless the customer asked for a more expensive one.
Jim
We carry the smallest amount of keepsakes that we can buy and only at holidays. We don't carry any of the everyday containers. My local customers want flowers not vases and bowls. One thing that I have found is in doing local work here, when a customer buys a $50 arrangement from me they get a nice big full showy arrangement. When we wire out for $50 I have to tell my customers that they are going to get a small arrangement. I fail to understand why so many shops put a lot of inventory dollars into expensive containers. Sure there are the occasional customers that want a fancy bowl or vase but in most cases they ask for them. I buy my vases in bulk so that I get the best prices and rarely pay more than a $1.59 for a nice looking clear glass blown vase. When a customer buys a $50 arrangement they are getting most of that in flowers, not in some tacky looking bowl that costs $8 and has to retail for at least $16.
I had a customer yesterday that came in with pics of an order that we wired out to his father for his 80th birthday. The father is blind so our customer asked for fragrant flowers. He brought the pic in and there were 9 carns, 3 stems of stock, 3 stems of delph, some daisy poms and two stems of alstro in a vase. I sent an ask telling the filling shop that my customer was very unhappy etc.
Their response was that the Vase was a $30 cut glass vase and there was a $5 bow on the arrangement. Huh? Why on earth would a shop think that a blind man with a request of fragrant flowers would want a $30 vase? But I digress, my point was, for $80 here they would get a huge arrangement of fragrant flowers in a minimal cost vase unless the customer asked for a more expensive one.
Jim
Hi Jim,
Yes it's terrible when a customer can't get more value in their outgoing orders, and it's not the customers fault or the sending Florists fault, sometimes it's the shop filling the order who has fallen for the hook line and sinker idea of expensive vases.
In your case when you sent the order to the filling shop, I wonder if they read what you put down in the special inst. section telling them it was for someone with eye sight problems, all this filling Florist did was lose a sale for future incoming orders from your customer, and perhaps your customer might not buy any more Flowers to be sent out of town or even lost sales in your shop for your own product. That's why the Flowers by Wire industry needs to re-think some things right now, and stop doing things that is unfriendly to consumers, at this time we need to be showing the consumers out there, they can in fact get more value when ordering floral gifts. Push the sale of flowers, plants etc that is the Florist's core business, promote the ALWAYS FRESH concept. BN is pushing all Florists across the industry to promote the term ALWAYS FRESH. Consumers need to get it into their minds as second nature that Flowers are ALWAYS FRESH, Affordable, and have value, no matter the occasion, not the idea come into a flowershop and get some cheesecake and a tacky dish. Get back to the basics while we still can. We can all turn the tide back if we act now, the window is closing more and more every year.
Peter
Who's puting Flowers First and ALWAYS FRESH in his life.
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