Grid?
- Thread starter BloomingFlorida
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Snapdragon Studio
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Palms
Well-Known Member
Just a slant from over here if anyone is interested.
We have flower arrangers and commerical florists. Flower arrangers tend to grid vases and use structures as they have more time to do this.
Commerical florist hand tie anything that is sent out or design in foam as a general rule that is. We do use structures though but for more bespoke work. Obviously i am only talking generally here.
If you hand tie any design, it will not move when delivering.
That is not me saying that there is something wrong with gridding, just a take from this side of that little old pond!
We have flower arrangers and commerical florists. Flower arrangers tend to grid vases and use structures as they have more time to do this.
Commerical florist hand tie anything that is sent out or design in foam as a general rule that is. We do use structures though but for more bespoke work. Obviously i am only talking generally here.
If you hand tie any design, it will not move when delivering.
That is not me saying that there is something wrong with gridding, just a take from this side of that little old pond!
We never grid with tape. Every vase arrangement always, always gets the water changed before it leaves the store! It always surprises me how many florists arrange in glass and don't bother to change the dirty water that is an inevitable part of designing in glass.
We either lace our greens, use a swirl of wire as a support, or do a handtied.
Also, I believe the Japanese term for the stick and branch structure inside the vase is hanakubari if you're googling.
We either lace our greens, use a swirl of wire as a support, or do a handtied.
Also, I believe the Japanese term for the stick and branch structure inside the vase is hanakubari if you're googling.
I grid if I need to. 4" cubes, in particular, are something I consider using a grid on. Especially if I am working with a lower price point. Like Shannon, if it makes the job quicker, cleaner and more efficient, then I go for it. Zip ties work great for different effects as well, and the wire, willow, and whatnot are beautiful. I make my decision on the day, the price, and the time.
Let's assume for professional courtesy that those who grid aren't slapping tape willy-nilly over the vase. And if you are, don't
As for water changing, I don't do it. I want a clean looking vase to go out the door, but changing the water, or lifting an arrangement out of water and plopping it into a clean vase, isn't my technique. And I never tell customers to do it, I just recommend keeping it full. There are other ways around it, it depends on individual design.
I think griddding for party work in these short vases makes good sense, for quick prep, or assembly line style, and also in delivery.
I'll tell on myself here, I grid all the vases at valentines, because I always have extra "help", not designers.
And after I read this thread Friday day, I had four 4" cubes to the hospital for boss's day(which someone forgot), that needed to go in under 30 minutes, from the time the call came to del. inside the ER. A grid across the top, four and out the door, with a few minutes to spare. I was thinking of this conversation while doing it, and decided the need for speed, and security made the grid work for that moment. You just have to weigh it out.
Let's assume for professional courtesy that those who grid aren't slapping tape willy-nilly over the vase. And if you are, don't
As for water changing, I don't do it. I want a clean looking vase to go out the door, but changing the water, or lifting an arrangement out of water and plopping it into a clean vase, isn't my technique. And I never tell customers to do it, I just recommend keeping it full. There are other ways around it, it depends on individual design.
I think griddding for party work in these short vases makes good sense, for quick prep, or assembly line style, and also in delivery.
I'll tell on myself here, I grid all the vases at valentines, because I always have extra "help", not designers.
And after I read this thread Friday day, I had four 4" cubes to the hospital for boss's day(which someone forgot), that needed to go in under 30 minutes, from the time the call came to del. inside the ER. A grid across the top, four and out the door, with a few minutes to spare. I was thinking of this conversation while doing it, and decided the need for speed, and security made the grid work for that moment. You just have to weigh it out.
"Hana" means flower in Japanese
so does "bana" as in ikebana. Ike= arranging Bana= Flower
BTW, we also do A LOT of leaf wraps in our vases.
but we will change the water out regardless if it gridded or not before it leave the store IF it's necessary
lori042499
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The total number of schools that teach floral decoration throughout Japan in the 20th century is believed to number from 2,000 to 3,000, varying in size from several thousand to millions of adherents. Each school has its own rules of arrangement, though styles may differ only slightly from one another. All arrangements are asymmetrical and achieve a three-dimensional effect. The traditional styles are still taught, many with modern variations, but the bolder, less restrained, and unconventional free-style forms of arrangement now seem to be the most popular. The material used in Japanese floral arrangements is held in position by various artifices, the most popular of which are the kubari, forked twig, and the kenzan, needlepoint holder.
This is the definition of what kubari is from a japanese design article...Looking on the internet there are many, many interpretations of this, but this is also very true of ikebana, not many here in America do true ikebana styles with the complete symbolism and true forms as the Japanese do...to be honest we murder such applications because of the disciplines the Japanese use, there is just so much more that goes into these designs than just flower placement. Kubari can be used in Ikebana, the kubari is the method of steading the flowers with some sort of branch or twigs, I have seen many examples, but it is hard to tell true Kubari as most I have seen are American designers and not Japanese, their renditions can be very far off.
Rikka is another type of flower arrangement like ikebana, just with different symbolism and disciplines...definition to follow...
Early styles were known as tatebana, standing flowers; from these developed a more massive and elaborate style, rikka (which also means standing flowers), introduced by the Ikenobō master Senkei around 1460. The early rikka style symbolized the mythical Mt. Meru of Buddhist cosmology. Rikka represented seven elements: peak, waterfall, hill, foot of the mountain, and the town, and the division of the whole into in (shade) and yō (sun). (In Chinese the characters for in and yō are read yin and yang, the passive or female and the active or male principles.) Formal rikka is arranged out of nine main branches and some accessory ones. Three branches are placed so that their tips form a triangle with unequal sides. From this pattern all later styles of Japanese floral art developed.
This is the definition of what kubari is from a japanese design article...Looking on the internet there are many, many interpretations of this, but this is also very true of ikebana, not many here in America do true ikebana styles with the complete symbolism and true forms as the Japanese do...to be honest we murder such applications because of the disciplines the Japanese use, there is just so much more that goes into these designs than just flower placement. Kubari can be used in Ikebana, the kubari is the method of steading the flowers with some sort of branch or twigs, I have seen many examples, but it is hard to tell true Kubari as most I have seen are American designers and not Japanese, their renditions can be very far off.
Rikka is another type of flower arrangement like ikebana, just with different symbolism and disciplines...definition to follow...
Early styles were known as tatebana, standing flowers; from these developed a more massive and elaborate style, rikka (which also means standing flowers), introduced by the Ikenobō master Senkei around 1460. The early rikka style symbolized the mythical Mt. Meru of Buddhist cosmology. Rikka represented seven elements: peak, waterfall, hill, foot of the mountain, and the town, and the division of the whole into in (shade) and yō (sun). (In Chinese the characters for in and yō are read yin and yang, the passive or female and the active or male principles.) Formal rikka is arranged out of nine main branches and some accessory ones. Three branches are placed so that their tips form a triangle with unequal sides. From this pattern all later styles of Japanese floral art developed.
FloralFantasies
New Member
I only grid the short cube vases (and sometimes not even those.) The biggest issue I see with gridding is that the customer will not be able to recut the stems of the flowers every few days and change the water.
Interesting. I wonder why they didn't say the reason for the asymmetry. They started to touch on it with the rikka description and the "three tip triangle"
The reason for the 3 tips or the asymmetry is all ikebana should represent Heaven, man, and earth. Tallest point being heaven, center point being man and lowest being earth.
I don't know any designer in the states that can make true ikebana. Ikebana is more than just arranging the flowers. It's the relationship between the flowers, materials and the designer.
Even Hitomi says she is not an Ikebana master teacher or sensi. (I hope I spelled that right)
Ikebana is so deep and involved, so much more than what we think it is.
When customers ask if we can do an ikebana design I always respond "oh I can do a beautiful asian inspired design". I say that out of respect for ikebana.
I love it when we have discussions on Ikebana. BTW.
The reason for the 3 tips or the asymmetry is all ikebana should represent Heaven, man, and earth. Tallest point being heaven, center point being man and lowest being earth.
I don't know any designer in the states that can make true ikebana. Ikebana is more than just arranging the flowers. It's the relationship between the flowers, materials and the designer.
Even Hitomi says she is not an Ikebana master teacher or sensi. (I hope I spelled that right)
Ikebana is so deep and involved, so much more than what we think it is.
When customers ask if we can do an ikebana design I always respond "oh I can do a beautiful asian inspired design". I say that out of respect for ikebana.
I love it when we have discussions on Ikebana. BTW.
Rhonda
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lori042499
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Everytime someone votes and doesn't leave a post it comes up as being unread because there is new info...
Tracy D'Amico
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You can go to the "thread tools" and "ignore thread" if you don't want to keep being updated on the votes or thread.
Gridding is a valid technique that has it's place in the repetoire of tools, tricks, techniques that we as designers use to create beautiful, stable, pleaseing arrangements and floral designs.
For instance......I love the look of curly willow swirled inside of a vase or bowl........but find that the tips and stems can slip out.....having a grid of the clear tape aids in keeping the curly willow stable, secure, and within the confines of the container.
We as designers, in order to best meet and exceed our customers needs and wants, should have all a wide and vast knowledge of tricks, tips, techniques, in order to enable us to be the best florists we can be..........IN THE EYES OF OUR CUSTOMERS.
For instance......I love the look of curly willow swirled inside of a vase or bowl........but find that the tips and stems can slip out.....having a grid of the clear tape aids in keeping the curly willow stable, secure, and within the confines of the container.
We as designers, in order to best meet and exceed our customers needs and wants, should have all a wide and vast knowledge of tricks, tips, techniques, in order to enable us to be the best florists we can be..........IN THE EYES OF OUR CUSTOMERS.
alisonm1215
New Member
I don't grid.
I'm tape challenged--it seems to stick where it is not suppose to or only stick to itself.
I use a similar technique to Carol's. I twist my arrangement with a chenille stick and plop it fresh treated water. The nice thing about the pipe cleaner is that if I need to adjust the arrangement, I can loosen the chenille and then tighten it again. I also do this with all of my hand-tied bouquets.
The stems look clean in the cubes or bubbles and it is very easy to change the water.
I'm tape challenged--it seems to stick where it is not suppose to or only stick to itself.
I use a similar technique to Carol's. I twist my arrangement with a chenille stick and plop it fresh treated water. The nice thing about the pipe cleaner is that if I need to adjust the arrangement, I can loosen the chenille and then tighten it again. I also do this with all of my hand-tied bouquets.
The stems look clean in the cubes or bubbles and it is very easy to change the water.
We don't tape. For most vases we green after half the "outer" flowers are in and work toward the center. For other vases we green last. We find you get a better overall spread, making the design wider. You will also use half as many greens. Many greens cost more per stem than some flowers. If it's a cube or bowl with top heavy flowers we will use willow or foliage in the water (or wire for a funky design), a branchier green like var pitt, or a filler with substance like solidaster, limonium, etc. Sometimes we use cable ties or chenile stems. We also use cable ties for all of our handtied bouquets.
Real florists don't tape. It is a total waste of time. Not a big deal with one vase or cube, but a huge waste of $ in labor when you're doing 25 for an event or 100 for a holiday. You're teaching your staff to use a crutch. Neither you or the recipient can change the water, without a hassle. Plus then they are aware that you needed to "cheat" to arrange flowers. This is something Martha teaches on HGTV, not what you purchase from a quality flower shop.
Real florists don't tape. It is a total waste of time. Not a big deal with one vase or cube, but a huge waste of $ in labor when you're doing 25 for an event or 100 for a holiday. You're teaching your staff to use a crutch. Neither you or the recipient can change the water, without a hassle. Plus then they are aware that you needed to "cheat" to arrange flowers. This is something Martha teaches on HGTV, not what you purchase from a quality flower shop.
Tracy D'Amico
Well-Known Member
::BSThat's kind of like saying real florists don't use carnations/leather/gyp, or don't belong to a wire service, or are open on Sundays. Sometimes, it's just about getting it done efficiently, crutch or no crutch. :iwuvyou:
lori042499
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I agree Tracy....I think that every florist could use this method on ocasion...they should all know it, just like taping a corsage, not too many do it anymore but it should still be taught and learned, I find that there are many applications that it just works better, gridding especially works well with less expensive cubes where you just don't have the money to "fill" the arrangement and need extra support, many reasons to use this method...although I don't use it often, because of many reasons cited here, I have used it for many others..and have not felt bad about it, and i am not an amatuer and not using a crutch....just happened that that method worked best for my application at that time....