Ha ha, Macs lost. :P

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Dazeal

Dazeal

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This is for all those Mac people out there who have defended their brand name to only be turned into a PC clone. lol

All my Mac friends should of listen to me years ago. Most mac people say, but we still have our OS, OS X. Yeah yeah, you can kiss that bye bye in 5 years or so too. lol You think I'm wrong? You probably would of thought I was wrong if I would of told you you 1 year ago that a MAC will be a PC clone too.

Dell, Gateway and a Mac all in the same boat... how cute.

In conclusion, Mac lost. *pokes Herb* :)

Ahhh capitalism, the same thing that made us, will destroy us. In 50 years 50 corps will own it all.
 
Lost? No...only getting BETTER!

Hey Daz-man... Mac Clone? Nothing new there... Between 1994 and 1997, Macs were cloned - by companies such as Power Computing and UMAX. Both machines ran to Apple specs, and ran well! I personally bought (and still have) a Power Computing Power Base model. A great computer, that ran well for 5 years, then the hard drive started going. So, I bought a G3, then a G4.

If you are referring to the switch from PowerPC chips to Intel chips, then - yea...PC's and Macs will have one thing in common - the manufacturer of the processor. BUT THAT'S IT MY FRIEND! The processors themselves will be TOTALLY different.

Macs will ALWAYS run the Mac OS architecture, and the processors will run better and just as fast if not faster than any Windows run system (um, can Wintels run 64 bit yet???). Macs will be able to run virtually any windows program via emulators, and I do see the day in which Macs will eventually be able to run ANY program.

The PowerPC chips had limitations - and Motorola was not moving fast enough to develope faster, cooler chips. Intel was. Hence the switch. We'll see how the new chips work - the first Mac-Intel systems are now shipping.

I venture to say that my next Mac will be a Intel processor Mac...

Nice try, Daz-man, but nope...ain't gonna work... Oh, by the way, any virus attacks on your PC lately??? HMMMM.....

- H.

PS - just loaded Tiger on my two G4's and added a bunch of RAM... TOTAL performance boost...rock-solid operating system. Dashboard an Spotlight are REALLY nice... Oh, you don't know what Dashboard is??? Or, what Spotlight can do? GOOGLE them my friend!
 
Not so true, H ... AMD & Intel have had 64bit chips for years (running a few myself), and there are different flavours of Windows 64bit OSs.

Oh, and the difference in architectures? Not so different. People are already running windows on the Intel-based Macs, and only Apple's legal department is keeping people from trying Apple's OS on PCs.

And fast ?? Only for the (few) native apps. Non-native apps run very poorly on the Intel Macs, according to recent studies.

Ryan
 
Infinite said:
Not so true, H ... AMD & Intel have had 64bit chips for years (running a few myself), and there are different flavours of Windows 64bit OSs.

Oh, and the difference in architectures? Not so different. People are already running windows on the Intel-based Macs, and only Apple's legal department is keeping people from trying Apple's OS on PCs.

And fast ?? Only for the (few) native apps. Non-native apps run very poorly on the Intel Macs, according to recent studies.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Wasn't being sarchasitic about the 64 bit thing - really, I didn't know....there are so many versions of windows... know that the personal Win XP version is 32 bit... Intel Macs are currently 32 bit as well....PowerPC G5's are 64 bit....hmmmm.....

As far as the architecture: Here's how I understand it: (after spending 5 min. on the net...)

Macs use EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), which is open source. EFI is the modern replacement for BIOS. EFI does support legacy BIOS, however it's up to the distributor (Apple) to include these options (hence your legal issue).

Also, Windows XP requires BIOS. Windows Vista is compatible with EFI. So if Apple chose to include legacy BIOS support in their EFI implementation, then Windows XP and other Windows versions will be bootable. If not, Windows Vista will be the only bootable version of Windows.

All in all, I would LOVE to have a duel-bootable Mac. One that will boot Mac OS and Win XP on the same machine. Why? I personally would have a very occasional use for XP, but it would be nice to have it "in my back pocket" whenever I would need it....

Regarding apps: I venture to say that just as the switch from OS 9 to OS X, most apps will be re-written to fully support Intel Macs....just give it a year or so...

Besides, it's just a matter of time until someone hacks XP to run on the Intel Mac....

- H.
 
It's been done. The EFI coding is a minor issue, and some enthusiasts have overcome this problem already. While it's not common place, this is all new stuff so I'm willing to let the people with the $$$ play around.

Expect to also see flavours of Linux on the Mac soon :)

Ryan
 
Done...on the PowerPC

Infinite said:
Expect to also see flavours of Linux on the Mac soon :)

Ryan
Click to expand...

Yup...done - Yellow Dog Linux runs on PowerPC...
Heard from a friend that it runs very well...

SO....it all ends up running whatever OS on the BEST hardware around - a MAC :)

...as Bloomzie says, 'opinions vary'

- H.
 
*Shakes his fist at Herb!* I'll get you some day!! lol

Herb, you're still the man, but I will say this... 5 years or less, there won't be a Mac OS, it'll be some type of Linux Hybrid that will run with Windows Vista as well as a Mac. (Just my guess)

As for viruses, nope haven't had one in years, but I have great protection!

I'm going to go get more info and ammo and will be back to get you Philly! ;)

P.S. - Quack
 
Ok Daz-man...

...care to place a Gentleman's wager???

Which goes FIRST... the "Wire Service" as it is today, or the Mac OS?

:)

I'd say with all that Apple is doing with Intel, Mac OS is here to stay. AND, will evolve into the PC of choice, when dual-bootable systems are mass-produced, and marketed to both Mac and Windows users, on the BEST hardware around.

Let it be a profitable day!

- H.
 
I love the new logo Herb :) I really do.

No need for a gentelman's bet! *hands Herb a 70cm Eskimo* I challenge you to a duel!

*pulls out his weapon of choice, a 70 cm Fancy Amazon*

On guard!

The problem with Macs are a lot of software doesn't run on them and they aren't as fast as PC. MAC servers are faster than PC servers, I do knwo that. NOW.. the new Intel chips will make Macs fast again, but befroe these chips came out, the PC was faster.
 
Dazeal said:
The problem with Macs are a lot of software doesn't run on them and they aren't as fast as PC. MAC servers are faster than PC servers, I do knwo that. NOW.. the new Intel chips will make Macs fast again, but befroe these chips came out, the PC was faster.
Click to expand...

TOTALLY disagree on the 'a lot of software' part. Yea, in the gaming world, maybe, but for the most part, you can do almost anything on a Mac as well if not better, than on a PC. Just by running an emulator on a fast Mac, you can run a good bit of programs. Also, MANY software companies are writing code for both platforms - especially now that OS X is moving forward.

PC' s faster? Hmmm...not sure on that one since you can't go by the Mhz label for the processors - PowerPC processors run much faster, at a lower Mhz label. I.e - a 900 mhz PowerPC runs much faster than an Intel 900 mhz. - their not equal... Also, much of it has to depend on the bit depth, RAM, etc.... clear as mud??? :)
(the whole speed thang is confusing to me...all I know is that if I am happy with the rate stuff is being done on the machine, then that's fine for me....)

You do not have to wait for the 64bit Intel Mac's for speed....the Quad PowerPC G5's do the job nicely!

- H.

PS -
 
PCs have moved beyond 64bit CPUs ... that's so 2003.

AMD has the smokingest CPUs on the market, with their Dual Core chips spanking Intel like the family pig.

Ryan
 
Infinite said:
PCs have moved beyond 64bit CPUs ... that's so 2003.

AMD has the smokingest CPUs on the market, with their Dual Core chips spanking Intel like the family pig.

Ryan
Click to expand...

Well...at least he didn't make any 'desk lamp' comments in this thread...

-H.

(family pig? you have a pig???)
 
Hey Ryan,
I know you and Janis bought your own house there but a farm in the middle of Mississauga??? :)
 
Just spoke with my best friend, who was at Mac World for a week and is the head Mac admin at MusicainsFriend.com. The new Mac Intel ships run in Dells or any other new PC motherboards out there, there is just a Bios flash you have to do and it's a PC clone. She admits that PCs are fasters than Macs, except when it comes to servers. She’s pretty upset about the defeat too. She still holds on to the Mac OS, but like I said, I think their OS in 5 years will be gone too or some type of Micro Sun hybrid.

As for software, yes gaming, but a lot of my vendors, farms, customers, etc... don't have a Mac, so I'm not going to send it to them in a foreign file type. Sure I can get some type of Word/Excel hybrid or whatever but how annoying. Macs can't be updated, like their video card, but maybe the new ones will. I mean their onboard video chipset is Radeon, which is real limiting. I never liked the fact that a company tied your hands to not be able to customize the hardware, I.E. a Mac. Not only that, it's harder to find a MAC tech and more expensive and how many options do I have when it comes to florist POS out there? In business, why tie your hands? I hate hate hate hate conforming :) but when it comes to business, I'll make an exception. Plus Macs in general are more spendy.

When MS Vista comes out, it'll run on a Mac, the insides will look like a Dell. They had to conform to the PC, not the other way around. Now if all PCs started to use something like... OS X, then Mac would of won, but the MAC was swallowed by capitalism and popular demands.

Name one software that a Mac runs better? That is such a myth if you name any graphic/video software. Plus Mac software is always a lot more expensive and harder to find. I can drive 5 min and get anything for a PC, for a Mac, special order. *yawns* Macs are better looking and protected a lot better than a PC running Windows, I'll agree with you, but the test I found that the Mac ran a certain software faster, was 3D studio and Maya. I'd be surprised if anyone here had that $1000+ software or ever knew what it was. But I will say this test was not tested on the new Intel Chip Set, I couldn't find new tests. But hey, if this new Intel chip set is faster, I'll just buy the guts along with the motherboard and run Vista on it, I.E. PC clone. *ducks*

Herb, when MS vista comes out, their next operating system that will run a MAC(PC clone), what will be the difference from buying a Dell? Heck I might buy a MAC in a couple of years, I have nothing against them now that they will be more diverse. When the guts are Intel and other well known PC parts runnign MS vista, what is going to make this computer a MAC? Just the name. A Dell doesn't run faster than the computers I build, only the name seporates it along with the OS. So in conclusion, this is why I think Mac lost, they took a step towards the PC side, not the other way around.

Read this about Mac and MS Vista: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/d.../wfaa060111_wz_cc_intelduovista.69133393.html

Read about Dell Macs:
http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/713/
 
Lots to digest...let's break this down...

Dazeal said:
Just spoke with my best friend, who was at Mac World for a week and is the head Mac admin at MusicainsFriend.com. The new Mac Intel ships run in Dells or any other new PC motherboards out there, there is just a Bios flash you have to do and it's a PC clone. She admits that PCs are fasters than Macs, except when it comes to servers. She’s pretty upset about the defeat too. She still holds on to the Mac OS, but like I said, I think their OS in 5 years will be gone too or some type of Micro Sun hybrid.
Click to expand...

I really think it's more than a BIOS flash... She's not a Mac loyalist if she is talking the way she is....

Dazeal said:
As for software, yes gaming, but a lot of my vendors, farms, customers, etc... don't have a Mac, so I'm not going to send it to them in a foreign file type. Sure I can get some type of Word/Excel hybrid or whatever but how annoying.
Click to expand...

Hybrid??? Excel and Word run native in OS X, hence send the files in ANY format needed. I have no problem sending docs to PC users - they are able to open them up as any other Office file. Macs - the same - will open any Word, Excel, Power Point, etc. file...no matter what OS it came from.

Dazeal said:
Macs can't be updated, like their video card, but maybe the new ones will. I mean their onboard video chipset is Radeon, which is real limiting. I never liked the fact that a company tied your hands to not be able to customize the hardware, I.E. a Mac.
Click to expand...

Not true. You can put tons of diff. hardware on Macs - PCI, etc. I can upgrade my G4's video card - it's in PCI slot 1... Apple is far from tying your hands on hardware!
Geezzz... Let's keep going...

Dazeal said:
Not only that, it's harder to find a MAC tech and more expensive and how many options do I have when it comes to florist POS out there? In business, why tie your hands? I hate hate hate hate conforming :) but when it comes to business, I'll make an exception. Plus Macs in general are more spendy.
Click to expand...

*BUZZ SOUND* El Wrong-o there! Plenty of Mac techs around...same cost as bringing a PC to a repair shop. But, this is really a non-issue, since, well...you don't need to bring Macs to the shop - except if you don't feel like doing an upgrade yourself. Florist POS - Ummm...FloristWare, Advantage, and I'd bet you that you could figure a way for a Mac to be used with MAS (yes, Ryan, BOSS, Hal...I said it! Come on...you guys KNOW it could be done...some "creative" fellow could do it...I got it done with Advantage - and I'm just a florist!)

Macs "in general" more spendy??? Disagree on that one. New Intel iMac duel core $1300 - with display, and loaded with software - a TRUE plug and play...SUPER fast too...

Dazeal said:
When MS Vista comes out, it'll run on a Mac, the insides will look like a Dell. They had to conform to the PC, not the other way around. Now if all PCs started to use something like... OS X, then Mac would of won, but the MAC was swallowed by capitalism and popular demands.
Click to expand...

Flaw in the logic there, big guy... You forgot about THIS scenerio (got it from the article YOU referred to...)
And now that Apple has released its Macintosh operating system for Intel's digital architecture, don't be surprised if some enterprising software experts come up with a scheme to turn a generic Windows PC into a Mac clone.

I could SURE use some CHEAP pc's to create my MAC OS network on!!!

Dazeal said:
Name one software that a Mac runs better? That is such a myth if you name any graphic/video software. Plus Mac software is always a lot more expensive and harder to find. I can drive 5 min and get anything for a PC, for a Mac, special order. *yawns* Macs are better looking and protected a lot better than a PC running Windows, I'll agree with you, but the test I found that the Mac ran a certain software faster, was 3D studio and Maya. I'd be surprised if anyone here had that $1000+ software or ever knew what it was. But I will say this test was not tested on the new Intel Chip Set, I couldn't find new tests. But hey, if this new Intel chip set is faster, I'll just buy the guts along with the motherboard and run Vista on it, I.E. PC clone. *ducks*
Click to expand...

GOOD! You're getting it - you can buy a SUPERIOR machine, and run whatever OS you want on it! It will just have that Apple Logo on it :)

Dazeal said:
Herb, when MS vista comes out, their next operating system that will run a MAC(PC clone), what will be the difference from buying a Dell? Heck I might buy a MAC in a couple of years, I have nothing against them now that they will be more diverse. When the guts are Intel and other well known PC parts runnign MS vista, what is going to make this computer a MAC? Just the name. A Dell doesn't run faster than the computers I build, only the name seporates it along with the OS. So in conclusion, this is why I think Mac lost, they took a step towards the PC side, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

You just took a step back in the logic. What if (as a side note) Steve Jobs had the CRAZY idea, oh say, of running Vista on a Mac - say TO SELL MACHINES!!! Heck with OS - it's worth about $129...the MACHINES make the $$$ for Apple. And, if you haven't figured it out yet, a Mac is made by the OS - not the machine... (my logic proven correct by history and the orig. Mac clones back in the 90's...)

Ta-DAHHH! (whewww....this was long...I need a beer...)

- H.

Ps - Macs rule!
 
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