How can small shops learn/use SEO effectively without paying an arm and a leg?

[wdestar]

It is all about content

Hi Dorothy

I did a check on your website using my software and here's what I've come up with - on the left are the number of occurrences for the top 50 words on your home page, and on the right - the words:

0022:flowers
0010:summerland
0006enticton
0005:us
0005:to
0005:flower
0004:delivery
0004:day
0004:bc
0003:your
0003:you
0003:shop
0003:roses
0003lants
0003eachland
0003:about
0002:weddings
0002:we
0002:valentine's
0002:valentine
0002:satisfaction
0002nline
0002:gifts
0002:free
0002:corporate
0002:contact
0002:call
0002:any
0002:250-494-0200
0001:years
0001:www
0001:we're
0001:well
0001:wedding
0001:way
0001:victoria
0001:v0h
0001:upcoming
0001:trusted
0001:tropical
0001:toll
0001:thank
0001:sympathy
0001:store
0001:serve
0001:seller
0001:saturday
0001:same
0001:romance
0001:read

After viewing the list, maybe you missed something? Hope this helps

Dan

 

[wdestar]

The future of Search Engines

And by the way, while we're on the subject, the future for ANY Search Engine is definitely in returning accurate results.

I don't care how many pages are "linked" to your website, if the web page that's returned highest in rankings does not display the keywords I searched for - IN ORDER - they're doing a disservice to everyone. Somebody better wake up Google and the rest of the bunch.

I'm certain that I do not speak for myself in this regard - When I do a search for something - anything - and the top ten returns have little at all to do with what I've searched for, I get upset and have little respect for their search algorithms.

So... as far as keywords go - use them and use them wisely - they won't fail you in the future. And as far as links go - I wouldn't worry too much about that... Any search engine that places a higher value on the "number of links" pointing to your website and places "ACTUAL CONTENT" as secondary, will surely fall by the wayside soon. I don't care how big they are. Do you remember Prodigy? I do.

There's always someone smarter watching and waiting.

Anyway, just my humble advice -

 

[theRKF]

And by the way, while we're on the subject, the future for ANY Search Engine is definitely in returning accurate results.

I don't care how many pages are "linked" to your website, if the web page that's returned highest in rankings does not display the keywords I searched for - IN ORDER - they're doing a disservice to everyone. Somebody better wake up Google and the rest of the bunch.

I'm certain that I do not speak for myself in this regard - When I do a search for something - anything - and the top ten returns have little at all to do with what I've searched for, I get upset and have little respect for their search algorithms.

So... as far as keywords go - use them and use them wisely - they won't fail you in the future. And as far as links go - I wouldn't worry too much about that... Any search engine that places a higher value on the "number of links" pointing to your website and places "ACTUAL CONTENT" as secondary, will surely fall by the wayside soon. I don't care how big they are. Do you remember Prodigy? I do.

There's always someone smarter watching and waiting.

Anyway, just my humble advice -

Sure ... if this was 1998.

It's nice that you don't care - but advising people to ignore what Google thinks is important is just irresponsible.

Ryan

 

[wdestar]

I did not say merely "I don't care..."

What I said was, "I don't care how many pages are "linked" to your website, if the web page that's returned highest in rankings does not display the keywords I searched for - IN ORDER - they're doing a disservice to everyone."

And, "Any search engine that places a higher value on the "number of links" pointing to your website and places "ACTUAL CONTENT" as secondary, will surely fall by the wayside soon. I don't care how big they are."

And I stand by both of those statements.

Furthermore, I NEVER stated that anyone should ignore Google or any other search engine. I try to optimize my website as best I can for good returns in all search engines. But I also make sure that the most important purpose on my website is providing relevant information for the terms people are searching for.

If one feels it important to have all those links, go for it! I won't deny it may work today. My opinion, and that's all it is, is someone smarter is going to pick up the ball and actually place the highest relevance on content.

Dan

 

[Sarah Botchick]

One thing that many companies ignore is free listings on sites like 411.com, maps.google.com, and local.yahoo.com and superpages.com. Your store and phone number may be listed but your website not listed. Be sure to go in to these sites and edit your listing so that your website appears. More and more consumers are getting into these sites. Also check your listing on yelp.com and macraesbluebook.com. This costs nothing and takes very little time. It won't change your life, but it will help.

 

[Sarah Botchick]

Sure ... if this was 1998.

It's nice that you don't care - but advising people to ignore what Google thinks is important is just irresponsible.

Ryan

Ryan is absolutely right! It doesn't matter what ANY of us think. All that matters is what Google (and maybe somedays Yahoo) thinks. Links are huge, keywords aren't so huge.

 

[BamaE4U]

Learn SEO from G. . . . .

A .PDF you will want to download.

http://tinyurl.com/GoogleSEOguide

 

[wdestar]

Ryan is absolutely right! It doesn't matter what ANY of us think. All that matters is what Google (and maybe somedays Yahoo) thinks. Links are huge, keywords aren't so huge.

No offense, but I did a search for "ohio wholesale florist" and "ohio wholesale flowers". On the latter search, you came up on number 42. You were nowhere to be found on the previous. Perhaps more links are required?

Anyway... here's your competition... and by the way, KEYWORDS DO MATTER! These keywords were gathered from both your home page and the competitions.

Springbrook Gardens Top 50 Keywords

0005:wholesale
0005:to
0005:springbrook
0005erennial
0005:grasses
0004lant
0003lants
0003erennials
0003rnamental
0003hio
0003:inc
0003:gardens
0003:association
0002:welcome
0002:we
0002:varieties
0002:us
0002:united
0002:suppliers
0002:states
0002:spraying
0002:rare
0002ur
0002rder
0002ne
0002:nursery
0002:mentor
0002:map
0002:mail
0002:located
0002:largest
0002:has
0002:hard
0002:growers
0002:ground
0002:flower
0002:find
0002:cover
0002:company
0002:catalog
0002:bare-root
0002:also
0002:-
0001:zone
0001:years
0001:yarrow
0001:wort
0001:wormwood
0001:world
0001:woodruff

Pioneer Wholesale Co Top 50 Keywords

0019:wholesale
0013:silk
0011:to
0007:you
0006ioneer
0006:co
0006:baskets
0004:website
0004:ribbon
0004lants
0004:here
0004:greenery
0004:decor
0004:click
0003:we
0003:trees
0003:shop
0003:see
0003ur
0003:metal
0003:home
0003:gift
0003:flowers
0003:customer
0003:containers
0002urchased
0002roducts
0002rder
0002ffer
0002:new
0002:never
0002:glass
0002:flower
0002:event
0002:do
0002:best
0002:below
0002:basket
0002:area
0001:years
0001:within
0001:winward
0001:will
0001:what
0001:wedding
0001:view
0001:vases
0001:value
0001:use
0001:take

 

[wdestar]

Just so I'm not taken as discriminant, anyone else (up until Feb 12, 2009) - I'll analyze your website free of charge for the keywords you seek.

You may be surprised - I was.

 

[Sarah Botchick]

No offense, but I did a search for "ohio wholesale florist" and "ohio wholesale flowers". On the latter search, you came up on number 42. You were nowhere to be found on the previous. Perhaps more links are required?

Anyway... here's your competition... and by the way, KEYWORDS DO MATTER! These keywords were gathered from both your home page and the competitions.

Springbrook Gardens Top 50 Keywords

0005:wholesale
0005:to
0005:springbrook
0005erennial
0005:grasses
0004lant
0003lants
0003erennials
0003rnamental
0003hio
0003:inc
0003:gardens
0003:association
0002:welcome
0002:we
0002:varieties
0002:us
0002:united
0002:suppliers
0002:states
0002:spraying
0002:rare
0002ur
0002rder
0002ne
0002:nursery
0002:mentor
0002:map
0002:mail
0002:located
0002:largest
0002:has
0002:hard
0002:growers
0002:ground
0002:flower
0002:find
0002:cover
0002:company
0002:catalog
0002:bare-root
0002:also
0002:-
0001:zone
0001:years
0001:yarrow
0001:wort
0001:wormwood
0001:world
0001:woodruff

Pioneer Wholesale Co Top 50 Keywords

0019:wholesale
0013:silk
0011:to
0007:you
0006ioneer
0006:co
0006:baskets
0004:website
0004:ribbon
0004lants
0004:here
0004:greenery
0004:decor
0004:click
0003:we
0003:trees
0003:shop
0003:see
0003ur
0003:metal
0003:home
0003:gift
0003:flowers
0003:customer
0003:containers
0002urchased
0002roducts
0002rder
0002ffer
0002:new
0002:never
0002:glass
0002:flower
0002:event
0002:do
0002:best
0002:below
0002:basket
0002:area
0001:years
0001:within
0001:winward
0001:will
0001:what
0001:wedding
0001:view
0001:vases
0001:value
0001:use
0001:take

No offense, but Springbrook Gardens is not our competition. They sell live flowers, we sell silk. Since we only sell silk flowers, we are very careful of what market we target. Do a search for "ohio wholesale silk flowers" in google. We come up number 1. I would rather be #1 on a targeted keyword string than #5 on a vague one. Anyone who is experienced in SEO will agree on that.

Except for the words "wholesale" "ohio" and "plants", there is not one of their keywords that in anyway applies to anything that we sell. If you are going to make comparisons, you might want to make sure that you are comparing apples to apples.

And I didn't say that keywords don't matter, I said they were not as huge as links. The industry changes constantly. In a year it will be different again. All of these factors, links, keywords, content, etc. come together to make the whole picture of this thing called "SEO."

I was simply agreeing with Ryan (who is, by the way, is certified by Google) that the search engines are the boss of us. Yes, in time they may fall by the wayside, anybody remember "Hotbot"? But while they are still big and strong, we have to play according to their rules, not according to what we think is right. I agree wholeheartedly that content is the most important thing. And anyone who works in SEO will tell you that too. But unfortunately there are other factors.

 

[wdestar]

Sorry Sarah

I assumed (my fault) that you were a wholesale florist seeking returns for "ohio wholesale florist".

My mistake.

 

[Sarah Botchick]

Thanks for the apology.

 

[theRKF]

Just so I'm not taken as discriminant, anyone else (up until Feb 12, 2009) - I'll analyze your website free of charge for the keywords you seek.

What exactly are you "analyzing" for? I keep seeing you listing a bunch of keywords - but what's the context? Are you pulling keywords from their existing pages? Are you listing the kw that are currently driving traffic to their site? Are you building a keyword list that they should target?

Anyway... here's your competition... and by the way, KEYWORDS DO MATTER! These keywords were gathered from both your home page and the competitions.

I don't dispute that keywords matter - but not with the significance you're giving them. When you say "gathered from your home page" are you listing them based on keyword frequency?

I would rather be #1 on a targeted keyword string than #5 on a vague one. Anyone who is experienced in SEO will agree on that.

And I didn't say that keywords don't matter, I said they were not as huge as links. The industry changes constantly. In a year it will be different again. All of these factors, links, keywords, content, etc. come together to make the whole picture of this thing called "SEO."

Yes, in time they may fall by the wayside, anybody remember "Hotbot"? But while they are still big and strong, we have to play according to their rules, not according to what we think is right. I agree wholeheartedly that content is the most important thing. And anyone who works in SEO will tell you that too. But unfortunately there are other factors.

Amen to the targeted search term

Yes, I remember HotBot - which probably would have been influenced by Wade's obsession with KW Frequency. Thing is, HotBot only went away because someone else did the job better. Google may or may not pass away, but it will only happen when someone does a better job, and that day is far, far away. Search won't die - it's completely entrenched in our lifestyle, now

Ryan

 

[wdestar]

Is there a difference between "keywords" and "content"?

 

[theRKF]

Is there a difference between "keywords" and "content"?

Absolutely - a huge difference.

Keywords = the particular targeted phrase or term

Content = the entire offering to the user on the page, including all text, images, video, audio. Content is the entire package shaped to be relevant to the targeted keywords. Content must be useful, engaging and semmanticly relevant, not just a collection of precise terms or words.

 

[theRKF]

Someone on this board was saying he belongs to a WS to "move flowers." By that, I think he means he will stay with WS even if he makes no profit, as long as he doesn't lose money.

So, he is willing to give out ~65 cents of every sales dollar to someone else.

Ryan, you have a very generous customer base in our industry. I just wanted to remind you of _that_.

P.S. I'm not _that_ generous. 30-40% maybe....



There will always be some florists who complain. That's inevitable.

But as long as your income and your customers' growth go hand-in-hand, I think most customers will be happy. That's why contingency pricing is attractive.

WS? Their income grows at the expense of ours, so it's hard not to dislike. I'm still an FTD member though, not because of love by the way.



That's an extremely important point, Ryan. And it will cost you a fortune. But I think it's worth it.

If you can help small florists like us to grow our business (and grow your business as the result), you are helping our industry to rid "floral order brokers". That's the main thing.

This article posted today by Stoney deGeyter (still the best name in search marketing!) addresses the problems with the pay-for-performance model, so I thought I'd post a link here:
www.searchengineguide.com/stoney-degeyter/is-the-payforperformance-seo-model-still.php

One thing Stoney didn't mention in the article, that Aaron Wall has stressed for some time, is that if the SEO is going to be given that much control - why settle for a percentage of the profit? Aaron has moved from doing client work to running his own sites because it's more profitable and less stressful than managing clients for a fee.

Ryan

 

[bloomz]

One thing Stoney didn't mention in the article, that Aaron Wall has stressed for some time, is that if the SEO is going to be given that much control - why settle for a percentage of the profit? Aaron has moved from doing client work to running his own sites because it's more profitable and less stressful than managing clients for a fee.

Ryan

Sounds like what we were just talking about with flowerpetal.

Anyone can join a wire service these days...

 

[toppertom]

I have tried just about everything. I have tried:
Doing it myself (Big Mistake)
Using the SEO services of my webhost. OK but not great.
Hiring an outside consultant. 1 bad, 1 good but then they sold the company. Arrrgh!
After hours of research on the web I found Submitit Express. I have seen amazing results in a very short period of time. Far faster and better than the other two I have used in the past. http://www.submitexpress.com/
They have plans starting at $500 a month (after $1000.00 set up). Yea I know that is a lot for many, but I have been truly impressed with the results.

 

[duanermb]

Blog article, FYI (I have probably done them all!)

12 Easy Mistakes that Plague Newcomers to the SEO Field
Posted: 03 Mar 2009 05:02 PM CST
Posted by randfish
I've been working with a lot of newcomers to SEO lately thanks to our PRO membership Q+A (BTW - sorry for the delays, the volume's tripled in the last 3 weeks, so we're a bit overwhelmed). It's been a great learning experience and I've gotten to see many of the struggles and misconceptions that affect entrants to the subject. As a partial remedy, I thought I'd take some time tonight to cover a few of the worst offenders:

1. Repetitive Keyword Targeting
   If you're targeting a specific keyword term or phrase, it's not necessary, and often ill-advised, to place that keyword in the title tag, H1 and body text of every page on your site. It's certainly OK to use the term/phrase in passing and when relevant, but remember that pages target rankings, not sites - a good rule is to target one specific keyword term/phrase per page, sometimes more, but only in rare circumstances (like when you're trying to get a secondary, indented listing) do you actually want to targe the same term on multiple pages.
2. Splitting Efforts Across Many Domains
   If you've found 10 reliable sources to get links, don't fall into the trap of thinking you can register 500 domains, get them all links from your 10 sources, then link from those sites back to your main domain and suddenly appear to have a diverse domain backlink profile. Splitting up your efforts on multiple domains is, in my opinion, rarely advisable (see this post for more) and can seriously detract from your goal of gaining rankings on a single site. The days of link farms and link islands are long gone - with link acquisition, quality is slowly but surely getting the upper hand on quantity, so use strategies that will get you the right links, not just any link.
3. Reciprocal Linking
   I'm not sure what happened, but reciprocal linking seems to be making a comeback (and both Google & Yahoo! have been doling out some penalties recently for sites engaging in it). It's not that reciprocal linking is inherently bad - if I link to Aaron's SEOBook (a great site, BTW), and he links to me (which he sometimes does), that's not what I'd call "reciprocal linking." I'm referring to the practice of creating link list pages on websites and then trading with other link list pages on other sites - the "you link to me and I'll link to you" phenomenon. These aren't hard to algorithmically spot and we see penalty after penalty (or at least, devaluation) hitting sites that leverage this tactic.
4. Keyword Stuffing
   If you're not ranking for a given keyword, placing a few dozen more instances of it on your page is very rarely the answer. Folks have been asking about modified versions of their keywords, whether they need to add more related text content, whether they need to use it more times per sentence of per paragraph and my answer is always the same. Once you've got your keyword in your content a few times, in your H1, title and URL, and maybe in the alt tag of an image, you're 80-90% of the way there with on-page optimization. The content needs to be valuable to a human (so you can earn links and interest and return visits and sharing) not more "optimized" for search engines with repetitions of your keyword.
5. Blocking Bots Access to Duplicate Content
   I think fear plays a major part in this one. People read that duplicate content causes a penalty, so they block bots from accessing duplicate versions of their content. The problem is that you lose the link juice those pages may accumulate and potentially restrict access to pages that would let the engines better crawl and index your site. If you want to fight duplicate content, try either 301 re-directing the duplicate version back to the original or employing the new canonical URL tag (if & when appropriate). Don't just go blocking bots from pages unless you're sure you know what you're doing.
6. Avoiding XML Sitemaps
   Maybe it's my fault for previously recommending that webmasters don't submit Sitemaps. Let me just go on record again as saying that I haev come 180 degrees on this and now completely endorse sitemaps for nearly every kind of site. In every instance we've seen them used properly, they've added significant boosts in search traffic over a very short period. If you want an easy win, and haven't yet invested in the sitemaps XML protocol, go do it.
7. Blocking Bots Rather than Using Nofollow
   I think there's been some confusion about how PageRank sculpting works. You should NOT block bots access to pages you don't want to send link juice to - in fact, this doesn't even accomplish that goal. If a link points to a page, even if that page is blocked via robots.txt or meta robots noindex, it still accrues link value metrics. The only way to stop a link from passing juice is to use a nofollow (or to make it via an externaljava_script redirect or embed in a non-HTML-parseable object). Please be careful about what you noindex or block to bots and why - you don't just hurt that page, you can hurt downstream areas of your site by walling off navigation paths too (and even stop link juice that flows in from flowing out).
8. Paranoia About Registering with Google Webmaster Tools
   Unless you truly are nefarious and have designs around link manipulation and scheming, there's really nothing to fear by registering your site with Google's Webmaster Tools. The value of having their metrics on hand and knowing what they report (especially with non-accessible pages) almost always outweights the tinfoil hat thoeries.
9. Ignoring Non-Google Search Engines
   Why limit yourself to Google!? Just because they're the market leader doesn't mean that another 15-20% of search traffic from Yahoo!, MSN & Ask isn't worthwhile. Most people salivate at boosting SEO 15-20% but continue to ignore the other engines. As a first step, at least register with Live Webmaster Tools and Yahoo! Site Explorer and send them your sitemap. Beyond that, Ben's research next week will go into a bit more about the ranking algorithm differences between these three engines.
10. Using Google's Link Command
    The Google link: command presents a (very) small sample of the links Google knows about, and while, for comparison purposes, it does appear to have some degree of accuracy, the actual links reported by it are in no way particularly significant. Just because a link does or does not show via this command doesn't make it better/worse/more interesting than any other link you have (or should try to acquire).
11. Submitting Articles for Links
    I'm not always agains the practice of submitting articles or content to other sites (heck, YOUmoz is one of the best links an SEO can get, IMO), but beware of submitting tons of the same article over and over to sites in the hope of getting more links. The value passed is not high (at least, from 99% of these sites) and you do lose the value of having great content on your own site (and earning the search traffic and links that might have flowed to it naturally). Just be smart about why you're pursuing this strategy and mindful of the benefits and drawbacks.
12. Chasing DoFollow Blogs
    When did dofollow blogs become the link acquisition practice du jour? Honestly, I have yet to see competitive rankings earned from a dofollow blog link strategy, and the focus on it to the exclusion of other, more valuable and scalable linking tactics is a cause for concern. When you're starting a link building campaign, remember the immortal words "nothing worth having comes easy."

Please feel free to contribute your own frequently-seen misconceptions or mistakes made by new SEOs. And for those reading this who are new - don't feel bad at all! I can't enumerate the number of pitfalls I suffered in my first few years tackling organic search. From 2002-2004, I was as green as they come, and it really took a half dozen campaigns and lots of help from the good people in the SEO industry to pull me out.

 

[bloomz]

I always thought #6 was wrong. GWT in my opinion is a great tool set.