How much do you really get for wire ins

[Joe Mioux]

Heather took the words out of my mouth this time.

At Holiday time, I staff according to increase in local business, not for the increase in WS business.

Like Heather's shop, my pct of WS business stays fairly constant, as a percent of overall increased sales, during peak times. Therefore, labor still remains fixed as it pertains to WS sales.

 

[Dorothy]

Labor is a fixed expense. Period. WS or not. (and, I'll add, if you're not charging labor on WS, well, that just does not make $ense and you're losing even more than you already are on WS orders).

 

[bloomz]

Labor is a fixed expense. Period. WS or not. (and, I'll add, if you're not charging labor on WS, well, that just does not make $ense and you're losing even more than you already are on WS orders).

Right and wrong.

the right: Labor is a fixed expense period in my world.

the wrong: I don't do any order I lose money on, including wire orders.

and I'm not that bad at math.....


Here's the beef:

If you don't like wire service orders - get the #$%&! (expletive deleted) out of the wire services!

and quit b1tching about them.

Period.

The number one thing I keep hearing from every florist is

"I don't have enough time"

How would you account for the inordinate amount of time we all spend up in here then?

hmmmm

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Right and wrong.

If you don't like wire service orders - get the #$%&! (expletive deleted) out of the wire services!

and quit b1tching about them.

Period.

EXACTLY!! Best post I have seen in days!!!
(can you tell I'm just trying to get $1 now in casino cash?)
I would click "thanks" but I lost my thanking privileges for some reason.

 

[HeatherTuckey]

Hmmm. The thanks worked. Don't get the error page I keep getting.

Another $1.

BTW bloomz, I need my $10 back.

 

[ivygreen]

CHR deserves credit for her tireless effort to educate florists, and owners alike about the perils of W/S dependency. Time and time again she posts about the lastest scheme, scam, and schmuck that gets pulled off in our industry. Many are wiser (or should be) for her efforts.

Joe, Bloomz and Heather (and others) are running successful operations with or in spite of the W/S affliations, by managing their labor costs, and buying habits. Their tightly run organizations show that careful and judicious use of the W/S can enhance success.

Boss and Eric are advocating for individual florists, maintaining our industry, and less reliance on orders being hand fed to us. Their dismay at the W/S industry is real and deserved and many feel the same or stronger (TOTO )

What they have in common is that they have shaped their own business, paid close attention of all the issues, and carefully chosen the path to success they work tirelessly for.

None of it was acheived by simply complaining. Not one bit of it. Nor are they waiting for the W/S prince to ride in and carry them away to richness and easy times.

Learn from the discussion, evaluate your own shop needs, and get in or get out of the W/S. But if your not paying as close attention to every detail that these people are, your in trouble in this economy.

The w/s business has an undeniable slimy side that is hurting our industry. Their goal is to make money off of us. None of us our going to make money by only waiting for the W/S to bring us business anymore. And we are not going to make it by just complaining either. Do what works for you, until it doesn't work any more. Then do something different. JMHO

 

[prestonway]

Can we do a quick review?

Just a quick review of what should be considered fixed & variable expenses on an incoming wire order.

We have one major assumption which is Excess Labour Capacity...a.k.a. we already have staff that COULD be filling more orders than they already do.

Although I'm running the risk of missing something (chime in Joe!), the primary costs are as follows:

Variable Expenses consist of flowers, containers, wire service incoming charge, and delivery charges.

Fixed Expenses include labour, rent, utilities, advertising, and all membership fees & dues from the wire service (these fees are fixed whether we fill one order or a hundred orders a month).

The math is easy after that.

Revenue minus Variable Expenses equals CONTRIBUTION MARGIN (CM), which is the amount that "contributes" to paying for your Fixed Expenses.

Although CM will be less than for a local customer, the point to remember is that the sale still "Contributes" something to paying for fixed costs.

Whether it's $20.00, $10.00, or even $1.00, it still contributes something...and as long as I'm a member of a wire service, I would rather have it than my competition!

 

[TOTO]

Ah, but the DIFFERENCE is......................

If you don't like wire service orders - get the #$%&! (expletive deleted) out of the wire services! and quit @@@@@ing about them.

It's not the TRANSFER of ORDERS between one real florist to another, and vice versa, which I have a problem with.

It's the invasion, interference, and interception of the 100% customer orders by the MIDDLEMEN SKIMMERS that s-crewed up our former level playing field JB.

How would you account for the inordinate amount of time we all spend up in here then? hmmmm

That's just GOOD THERAPY in my book, not to mention RYAN'S CONTINUING PROGRAM IN EDUCATION.

How about this option? You agree to STOP @@@@@ING about "W" and I'll agree to stop @@@@@ING about the 800 and DOT.CON SKIMMERS along with the WS's and the filler florists who ENABLE THEM, albeit marginally, even if it's ONLY FOR A BUCK.

NAW! You'll continue with the "W" mantra for the next FOUR YEARS as an excuse for why, BHO can't deliver on all the promises he made.

In the meantime, the FEDS (Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi) will print up TRILLIONS like there's NO TOMMORROW (for our children and grandchildren) and hand it out like HALLOWEEN CANDY in an effort to shore up the damages they caused with their CRA, ACORN, and FANNIE and FREDDIE NINJA MORTGAGE debacle.

Ah, but it's all GOOD JB! Catch any more FRESH BUS?
lol

 

[Joe Mioux]

PW, I can't add much more to your post other than, the only thing a shop needs to be aware of is their FC v VC on deliveries.

Like you once said, delivery pool, contract drivers are definitely VC

A shop's own delivery vehicle costs' and delivery labor has elements of both VC and FC.

i.e. insurance, depreciation/lease payment is FC

some delivery labor might be FC as well.

gas, oil changes, maintenance, is more VC.

So, we need to really segregate some of that delivery cost out where applicable.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

Flowers are a fixed cost as well.

Therefore, you can fill for your competition for free and still come out Good. Right?

Sure is nice living in never-never land. Ain't it!

RC

PS: Sorry if I'm off topic a bit. I don't read these posts anymore. Already know what everyone's going to say, ...must be clairvoyant.

 

[Joe Mioux]

Flowers are a fixed cost as well.

Therefore, you can fill for your competition for free and still come out Good. Right?

Sure is nice living in never-never land. Ain't it!

RC

PS: Sorry if I'm off topic a bit. I don't read these posts anymore. Already know what everyone's going to say, ...must be clairvoyant.

you just did.

joe

p.s. Are you a wire service member?

 

[TOTO]

So, what have we learned for today, boys and girls?

Since the WS DEBATE will probably continue to go on forever, the last remaining statement from MEE will ALWAYS BE:

"If your shop insists on NOT BEING A PART of THE SOLUTION to the 800 FLORAL DOT.CON MIDDLEMAN PROBLEM, then obviously, your shop will continue to remain A PART OF OUR ENTIRE RETAIL FLORAL INDUSTRY'S PROBLEM!"

As such, the thought (to me) that, any REAL FLORIST would continue to be willing victims for these MIDDLEMAN INVADERS, albeit at marginal profit contributions to one's operating expenses, is an INSULT to the intelligence of any other REAL FLORIST who considers themselves to be INDEPENDENT BUSINESSMEN, versus DEPENDENT UPON third party DEALERS whose only goal is to STEAL YOUR OWN 100% CUSTOMER SALES out from underneath YOU!

Having said that for too many times than I can remember, I continue to be saddened and frustrated over the fact that, so many HARD WORKING MOM and POP slobs, just can't see the FLORISTS for THE FLEAS!

You can CRUNCH and WORK your numbers all you want, but in the end, you're still never going to be able to make any REAL IMPACT, unless and until, you give up the CHUMP CHANGE JUSTIFICATIONS, cut them off, and SHUT EM DOWN at YOUR PASS, and agree to take back the consumer floral marketplace that, you have rightly earned!

All you have to do is to "JUST SAY NO!"

After which YOU, by MAJORITY DEFAULT, become the only REAL FLORIST those customers are FORCED TO CALL, if in fact, they NEED THEIR FLOWERS DELIVERED in YOUR TOWN U.S.A..

The SOLUTION to YOUR PROBLEM is OH, SO EASY!

YOUR PROBLEM continues to be in the fact that, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT, and I continue to hope that, SOMEDAY, SOMEWAY, you might decide to give up the SHORT TERM CHUMP CHANGE SMALL MARGINS for the LONG TERM FAT CITY BIG PROFITS.

After which, you'll become KING OF THAT HILL, and your WS's will learn (the hard way) that, they are once again, going to have to WORK FOR YOU, rather than, VICE VERSA!

MARGINAL CONTRIBUTIONS? OH PLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK!

How ANYONE can agree to settle for SCRAPS FROM THEIR TABLE when they have always HAD THE POWER TO HAVE IT ALL, is beyond ME!

 

[bloomz]

Hmmm. The thanks worked. Don't get the error page I keep getting.

Another $1.

BTW bloomz, I need my $10 back.

I'm still trying to figure out how I got it...

 

[HeatherTuckey]

It's ok... I was graciously gifted $ from marigold. My gamblers anonymous sponser told me to take it easy for a few days, even though its only virtual money.

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

you just did.

joe

p.s. Are you a wire service member?

Yes Joe, Can't you tell joe's-favorite-florist.com



I'm a member of one wire service because outgoing wires accounted last year for seven to eight percent of my sales which put me in the top 25 of that wire service's membership. I also freely accepted incoming wire orders as they represented less than one half of one percent of sales.

You're a numbers guy so you should be able to see the numbers work in my favor. Unfortunately, the numbers don't work so well for the vast majority of florists.

RC

 

[Joe Mioux]

Yes Joe, Can't you tell joe's-favorite-florist.com



I'm a member of one wire service because outgoing wires accounted last year for seven to eight percent of my sales which put me in the top 25 of that wire service's membership. I also freely accepted incoming wire orders as they represented less than one half of one percent of sales.

You're a numbers guy so you should be able to see the numbers work in my favor. Unfortunately, the numbers don't work so well for the vast majority of florists.

RC

yes they do.

but if you or others discourage the vast majority of florists from being members who will fill your orders?

 

[RC in Dayton and Cincinnati]

but if you or others discourage the vast majority of florists from being members who will fill your orders?

Florists will still fill my orders,

but instead of large senders being rewarded so heavily for sending orders, the wire services will reward florists more for filling orders. In short there will be a better balance. Large senders may lose their rebates in favor of more compensation for the vast majority of florists.

This is a win-win situation for everyone, except maybe ordergatherers who rely heavily on large rebates. The consumer gets a better product, the filling florist gets compensated properly, and the wire service gets the rewards of customer satisfaction and a healthier industry that might start growing again.

But this will never happen if florists continue to willingly participate at a loss. It’s simply not healthy to allow one important link (filling florists) to be decimated the way they are.


RC

 

[Dorothy]

"The 2008 online holiday shopping season has declined 3 percent versus year ago, falling behind our expectation of flat sales this year,” said comScore chairman Gian Fulgoni. “This marks the first time we’ve seen negative growth rates for the holiday season since we began tracking e-commerce in 2001."

http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/081231-081934

Too bad they didn't include the floral industry in the stats.

 

[bloomz]

that's called "the Bush factor".


I also got an email from zillow last night informing me my house value had dropped another $10,000 (gee last month it was only down 5)

 

[Tom Carlson]

Why don't florists promote Outgoing Order Sales?

The origninal concept is based on this theory.
For every order sent, there is an order received.
The florist who receives an order pays a lot for that order, thus it should motivate him/her to send out an equal amount of orders, because the sending florist receives a lot for that order.

Very few florists promote to increase outgoing orders. Strange, but true. The concept of florists exchanging orders is fabulous.

But then enters the order gatherer, the phantom florist with their 800 toll free phone numbers. Then florists experience sending fewer orders in relation to orders received, to be filled. Shops start losing money on the wire-service side of their business.

Next comes the Internet. WHAM BANG SLAMDUNK the local florist now sends even fewer orders. The consumer wants convenience. His local florist is open only 9 to 11 hours a day 6 days a week [some just 5 days]. The on-line florist is open 24/7.

And the local florist starts to gripe. Poor me. I am a "designer" and look what everyone is doing to me. Why me? This is not fair! And they go on and on.

What are florists doing to capture orders 24/7? In my city of 65,000 and 8 flower shops [2 in grocery stores], only one has on-line ordering.
Really true? Yes, really true.

Now we are in tough economic times. Who could do more orders in an 8 hour day this month without increasing their payroll costs?

Or, who can send home their designers/drivers/clerks when the last order is done?

The only answer to the last two questions is, "No one can, so why not have more orders to fill with payroll that is there doing nothing?

I close my case.

Tom Carlson