How would you explain the importance of depth?

[shannonlovesflowers]

I'll try to make a very long story short.

Amy (the owner of Schluter Floral, where I've been working for over 2 1/2 years) bought our biggest competition, April's garden.

The April's garden store and crew moved into our building 2 weeks ago. So both store have merged. And we are now going by April's Garden.

I Have lots of responsibilities in my job. One of which is design manager.
I make sure the designs in the store are well made and are the image Amy wants.

So I inherited 2 designers. They are OK, not great, not bad, just OK, by my standards. And slow as molasses in January, but that's another problem to tackle.

Anyway, when they design, they way over stuff and their arrangements have zero depth.

I am trying very hard to be sensitive and not a design nazi. And I don't want them to feel like they are being picked on because they are new.

But these flat designs gotta go.

How would you explain depth to a designer who thinks their designs need little improvement? AND not offend them or make them mad?

This isn't a setting like a design show or a design class where people are up to hearing how they can improve.

One girl seems excited to learn, the other, not so much...

Any advice would be helpful.

 

[Queen of Weddings]

Darlin,


I hate to say this, but it is up to the owner to handle this issue, i know you want to but They are use to doing things there way, and it will all work out, I think that sometimes when you are use to doing it one, way and until they start seeing what you do then they will start doing it that way as well, also you said that this was on of your competion at one point so, now is the time to work togeather and it will all work out,,,

 

[Rhonda]

variety of height similar to hills and mountains! How boring it would be to see nothing but flat ground (like Kansas compared to Colorado?)
Adds movement, brings the eye into the design instead of just going around the arrangement.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

This is the thing Queen,

My job is to do this. I have to do this. If I want to keep my job that is. And I kinda do.

If Amy said "Let them do their thing, you guys do yours" no problem

The thing I always say is "It's not my shop" no matter how I don't agree with something, I do what I'm paid to do, or I quit, period.

And don't get me wrong the designs aren't totally bad, they need some pointers and a few lessons. I just need a tactful way of saying "Depth is important because........"

I was resistant when I was young too. I thought I knew it all baby! The older I get the more I know there's always room for improvement!

 

[Seasonals]

Shannon it's going to be a touchy situation no matter how you handle it, but here's an idea.

Let them know you're all working together and in your postion you thought it would be helpful if you had weekly reviews of different designs. Anything that might be new, refreshers on certain things or just good basic designs.

Have your first one on depth maybe with a Valentine's design. Do a design for them. Or if you feel comfortable have the product divided up and each of you do one with the same product for critiqueing. You need to make it fun, informative and productive.

 

[Victoria]

Do you have a written job description that makes you responsible for the quality control of the designs in the shop? Does their written job description make it clear what your role is?

Also, was the other shop a successful entity with happy customers who liked the designs they ordered?

Some people like what those two designers are doing, some do not. Some know the difference, most don't. They just understand what pleases their eyes and their wallets.

If Amy says let them do their thing, then let them do their thing. If the designs are fine and not disgusting to the general eye don't stew about it. Most of us learn by example... and if you quietly inspire change and questions then everyone wins.

V

 

[wildflowerschicago]

I like Suzanne's idea about weekly reviews. You might pick 1 design principal per week and refine everyone's skills related to that skill (line, depth, balance, whatever).

Otherwise, teach away to the girl who is interested in learning and hope the other one catches on through osmosis!?!?

I have the same problem with a designer I hired here...she thinks she's perfect (and oh so edgy) but not so much!!! It isn't her style, it's the details. I can't get her to see that the scale is way off, or that the colors she chose have no relevance to each other...and she puts random crap in arrangements that has no relevance to the design at all (I'm all for using butterflies or aluminium wire, but they have to enhance the design or your just wasting money).

I know I am really uptight about things (like you) but it has to make sense!!!! I am SO sick of asking the same questions...where is your movement coming from, how are you visually getting from the left to the right or the front to the back of the design, do you find this color combination visually appealing. I am like a broken record.

I will often set an arrangement I am doing off to the side and ask the same questions of myself out loud. New designers usually think I am picking on them, but I hold myself to the same standard.

If all else fails, bust out the floral design magazines and start tearing out great inspirational pictures and hanging them around the design room with notes on them for inspiration.

 

[Palms]

I know what you mean about depth, i think that a design should always have depth, to me it looks like the design is jumping out at your if it doesn't. But i cannot think for the life of me why we need it, you just do. I think Carol Bice or one of the other AIFD lot may answer this a bit better.

Its very easy to teach balance, visual interest, etc etc but depth??

If you are the manager of the store then i would say that it is within your description to train other staff. Owners get managers so that they can delegate jobs that sometimes they are not qualified or very good at doing. Personally i always pull on people's strengths so she obviously thinks you are the best for the job. Likewise if you are design manager, then as far as design goes what you say should be the gospel regards to design, content etc..

Look forward to reading others input on this thread.

 

[goldfish]

I am trying very hard to be sensitive and not a design nazi. And I don't want them to feel like they are being picked on because they are new.

You have no control over what other people think of you. Don't be too senstitive of other people's perception of who you are.

As a boss, you should not be afraid of being unfairly despised. So just tell them their designs are no good.

If they are good and reasonable, they understand your criticism. If not, there's no way you can fix them no matter what language you use, so don't worry.

 

[strippinrose]

I like Suzanne's idea about weekly reviews. You might pick 1 design principal per week and refine everyone's skills related to that skill (line, depth, balance, whatever).

Otherwise, teach away to the girl who is interested in learning and hope the other one catches on through osmosis!?!?

I have the same problem with a designer I hired here...she thinks she's perfect (and oh so edgy) but not so much!!! It isn't her style, it's the details. I can't get her to see that the scale is way off, or that the colors she chose have no relevance to each other...and she puts random crap in arrangements that has no relevance to the design at all (I'm all for using butterflies or aluminium wire, but they have to enhance the design or your just wasting money).

I know I am really uptight about things (like you) but it has to make sense!!!! I am SO sick of asking the same questions...where is your movement coming from, how are you visually getting from the left to the right or the front to the back of the design, do you find this color combination visually appealing. I am like a broken record.

I will often set an arrangement I am doing off to the side and ask the same questions of myself out loud. New designers usually think I am picking on them, but I hold myself to the same standard.

If all else fails, bust out the floral design magazines and start tearing out great inspirational pictures and hanging them around the design room with notes on them for inspiration.

come on guys! I think we give to much leway to employees as it is, no other job in any other feild gets to do as they please, tell them what you want( in a tactfulway) and enforce it....this is one of the problems we just want let go of....Millionaire Movie stars have to do as director says or they dont get the roles ...where is it that designers are queens.....

 

[Johan]

Not quite sure why your job is needed (does it mean you are head/senior florist) . I own a small shop 2 of us are trained florists and 1 person keeps the shop ticking. As the boss I have the last say. If I don't like something I let it be known. The other florist that works with me is a talented florist but she has a habit of making her basket arrangements really clumpy and that makes them seem under value or over priced. So when she made a basket that I felt was not good I told her that it looked like someone had sat on it. It didn't go down that well at first I think I was abit too sarcastic but she accepted it and has altered her style to be more open and natural. Like wise if I make something that she thinks isn't to my usual standards she lets me know (we call it having an off day or we say we don't like it but it was well made). We vet each others work and learn from each other. (we have both been florists for 20 + years). If you are the senior florist organise some fun design/training days. There is normally room in every florists for different styles. But before you do anything confirm with your boss what your bounderies are. If one of the florists is more keen to learn harness this. And good look.
The other thing that I realised a long time ago, you either have it or you don't. I don't think you can really teach someone to have an eye for design and colour, it has to be instinctive and don't forget sometimes rules can be broken to create the most fantastic effects.

 

[Carol Bice]

I tend to agree with Victoria that the old established customers they had may actually relate to the way they were doing it and like it that way. And this is so hard for some of us to take.

But, that being said, you certainly need to implement some class room type learning so they might gradually start to improve with the times.

Set aside maybe 1 hour each week and have a design class when they do a hands on. Have them make the design until they get it right.

Sometimes, I have a session where I give them a surprise package and make them pretend they are designing for a contest. To win, they have follow all the elements of design. Then, have each one critique all the others including yours. That is when they start to see their shortcomings. That has brought out some really great designers for me because they are so proud of the new look they have created.

Carol Bice

 

[Bigted]

come on guys! I think we give to much leway to employees as it is, no other job in any other feild gets to do as they please, tell them what you want( in a tactfulway) and enforce it....this is one of the problems we just want let go of....Millionaire Movie stars have to do as director says or they dont get the roles ...where is it that designers are queens.....

Finally, advice that can work. If you let them come in and not follow the rules, you're dead. Tell them what you would like them to work on, and move forward. You don't have to be mean, just direct. They won't quit in this environment. If they do, you're still a winner. It's just like Ceasar the dog whisperer says, "you need to set boundries, limitations and consequences".

 

[Carol Bice]

Another thought on this:

Many years ago, I did family flowers for a funeral in the northeast corner of Missouri.....talk about 50 years behind the times in their small town. They were so redneck.

Anyway, the flower shop let me come in and do the flowers. They watched me like a hawk, not believing some of the design work I was turning out. Meanwhile, they went on filling other funeral orders with their really old fashioned looks.....they were just horrible.

When I went to the visitation, no one there knew I had done the flowers so it was interesting to to hear what each one had to say when they came in. Keep in mind that there were contest type designs along side these really bad creations. Only carnations and footballs mums were in in every single one.

That day, I learned on of my greatest lessons in business ever. Not one of the hometowners could relate to good design and unique flowers. But, they couldn't stop talking about how beautiful the poor quality ones were. My ego was crushed....but, it made me so aware that you have to design for the type customer you have and one size does not fit all. Now, I really listen to my customer to see what level of design I can use.

Carol Bice

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

Do you have a written job description that makes you responsible for the quality control of the designs in the shop? Does their written job description make it clear what your role is?

Also, was the other shop a successful entity with happy customers who liked the designs they ordered?

Some people like what those two designers are doing, some do not. Some know the difference, most don't. They just understand what pleases their eyes and their wallets.

If Amy says let them do their thing, then let them do their thing. If the designs are fine and not disgusting to the general eye don't stew about it. Most of us learn by example... and if you quietly inspire change and questions then everyone wins.

V

I guess you didn't understand.

Amy said for me to coach these girls. Again, this is my job. Yes, this is my job, and yes they know it.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

You have no control over what other people think of you. Don't be too senstitive of other people's perception of who you are.

As a boss, you should not be afraid of being unfairly despised. So just tell them their designs are no good.

If they are good and reasonable, they understand your criticism. If not, there's no way you can fix them no matter what language you use, so don't worry.

See this is the thing....

When I was learning design I was MUCH more receptive if someone teaching me didn't act like a jerk or belittled me.

I've had many designs ripped apart and told RE-DO it! And no explanation why, just "cause". That's a BS reason if you ask me.

I want to teach the reason, not just the principal. I need to tell these girls WHY it's important, not just cause I said it was.

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

That is very good advice Carol.

Johan, Yes I am the lead designer and manager. I have 25+ years experience... everyone else has less than one or 2 years.
Except for my mom, who is pretty old school, She can't stand Hitomi style designs.. Whatever mom.

Just so everyone knows, yes we are melding the 2 styles of design. We are not making them Change their style, I just need them to add depth. That's it. And stop over stuffing, or we will be out of business very quickly.

Not every piece needs to look like competition pieces. Just well put together.

So again I ask this question, How to I explain the importance of depth.

 

[prestonway]

Not every piece needs to look like competition pieces. Just well put together.

So again I ask this question, How to I explain the importance of depth.

This might work.

Take a piece that they've just constructed.

Using the exact same materials, you design the same piece.

VISUALLY, it should be easier to explain the difference in the two styles...one with depth & the other without.

 

[Johan]

Depth - The best way to explain depth is quite simply to show it. Make two arrangements using all the same flower content colours etc. Then make one look flat with no depth. Then make one with depth so that the eye is pulled through the design. This is what I was saying about my other florist about her baskets. Clumpy. My old tutor used to say it you should allow the butterflies to be able to flutter through the design. Think depth think 3D that basically the difference. Its the easiest way. Ask them which design they prefered and why. If they like the one with depth this should hopefully click with them. If they prefer the other ask them why. But you will probably prefer the one with depth.

 

[Bigted]

I have 25+ years experience... everyone else has less than one or 2 years.

Wow. That's a little different than Visser's. The "new girl" has 15 years experience and has been here 7 years. The rest of the designers have 25 years plus. Teaching them a new concept would be a lot tougher than teaching someone with a couple of years.