IN/OUT ratios?

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Joe Mioux

Joe Mioux

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Dec 15, 2004
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Do any of you analyze this ratio.

The reason I ask is because I found this neat little ratio or pct while printing out a much larger sales analysis report today.

Have any of you analyzed your Wire bus this way? I think it might be an excellent way to manage ins and outs.

joe
 
RC in Dayton and Cincinnati said:
Probably in your case, but not necessarily as a rule because the total numbers are important as well.

In general the larger the number of wire outs is, the more profitable, irregardless of incoming orders. This is not taking into account the cost of marketing that many do to gather wire-out orders.


RC
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Randy i don't think you meant this as i am interpreting it.

Yes, the more outs one has results in a lower the percentage. However, if we all agree that the profit side is the out side then the incoming side does become relevant in this analysis. doesn't it?

In other words, large outgoings doesn't outweigh larger incomings.

I do little if any ws marketing or ws oriented product marketing.
 
Yeah, we do. Here's the 2006 data (last year). I'd rather keep this year's data secret for the time being.:ninja:

month (in:eek:ut)
Jan 3.80
Feb 4.75
Mar 6.61
Apr 2.78
May 4.33
Jun 5.37
Jul 4.40
Aug 3.87
Sep 4.07
Oct 2.75
Nov 3.57
Dec 3.71

average 4.17

Except Jan and Jul, the net in WS sector was positive for each month. In Jan, we lost about $500. Jul was break-even.

I'm disclosing the numbers here, as an example of a typical "filler" shop.

You would notice that, on average, In outweighs Out for more than 3:1 ratio, which triggers a steep penalty called "reciprocity" fee. Impact of reciprocity fee is huge for filling-heavy florists. That is, the discount we are giving to WS/sender is not an advertised 27% (20% commission + 7% fee), but approximately 35% (20% commission + 7% fee + 4% reciprocity + $1.25 FTO).

The way we minimize the impact of reciprocity penalty is to allocate all the outgoing into just one WS (we are members of both FTD and TF), so that in at least this WS, in/out ratio becomes less than 3:1. Actually that's the reason I keep track of this ratio very carefully each month.:)

We also need to watch the number of TF and FTD separately, to ensure that each WS remains at least break even.
 
gold,

i am not understanding your numbers.

what is incoming $ divided by outgoing dollars$

also with re: to reciprocity tell ftd you will quit them if they continue charging you this idiotic fee. I have an agreement with them. I will not send FTD and they will not assess reciprocity or low sending.

thanks joe
 
Joe Mioux said:
gold,

i am not understanding your numbers.

what is incoming $ divided by outgoing dollars$
Click to expand...

For example, in Dec 2006, Incoming total was $7,769 and Out total was $2,093. So the ratio is 7769/2093=3.71.

In terms of the %, it's 79% incoming versus 21% outgoing.

Our WS net (after monthly fee, etc) in Dec 2006 was $1,957. Very little, considering we filled almost $8,000 worth of incoming. (Sorry for shutting off merc/dove during Christmas, Bloomz, but this is why we aren't too motivated to fill).

Joe Mioux said:
also with re: to reciprocity tell ftd you will quit them if they continue charging you this idiotic fee. I have an agreement with them. I will not send FTD and they will not assess reciprocity or low sending.
Click to expand...

Well, I'll certainly give a shot. Thanks for the info.
 
ok so you are at 371 pct compared to my 36 pct.

this actually might help define our businesses and our comments regardig wireservices better than anything else.

I have worked at having more outgoing than incoming this past year, while you have been filling a whole lot more than sending.

I don't know about you gold, but i find these stats pretty interesting and informative.

Maybe we should conduct a poll as RC has suggested.

joe
 
Goldfish has a lot on the ball.
Making me think that the future may hold somewhat of a creative and strategic alliance with the " smaller " shops here on Long Island.

I agree also with RC's poll suggestion. Could be a good thing.

And...........a big hello to you Joe !
 
Joe Mioux said:
I have worked at having more outgoing than incoming this past year, while you have been filling a whole lot more than sending.

I don't know about you gold, but i find these stats pretty interesting and informative.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to attract outgoing orders, but so far unsuccessful. I think there are two reasons for that.

One, we are too new. Only 2.5-yr old store.

Two, we have a BIG competitor called 1-800-flowers. 1-800-F to many of you is just a national brand. To us, they are a single biggest, baddest LOCAL brand. They have a HQ here in western Long Island and have two retail stores in our delivery areas. They probably have a lion's share of local outgoing orders.
 
goldfish said:
I've been trying to attract outgoing orders, but so far unsuccessful. I think there are two reasons for that.

One, we are too new. Only 2.5-yr old store.

Two, we have a BIG competitor called 1-800-flowers. 1-800-F to many of you is just a national brand. To us, they are a single biggest, baddest LOCAL brand. They have a HQ here in western Long Island and have two retail stores in our delivery areas. They probably have a lion's share of local outgoing orders.
Click to expand...

This may be a tricky thing to do, but it would be interesting if you could post some pictures of the work that comes out of the local 1-800-flower retail stores. How skilled is their local design staff?
It would be interesting to see how close they perform and match what is on the website.
 
RWK said:
This may be a tricky thing to do, but it would be interesting if you could post some pictures of the work that comes out of the local 1-800-flower retail stores. How skilled is their local design staff?
It would be interesting to see how close they perform and match what is on the website.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. I might do that. Regardless, my understanding is that they have a fairly strict recipe book and designers generally follow the recipe precisely. They do custom work, too.

The biggest strength of local 1-800 stores, however, is their local corporate accounts. They have sales/marketing people who constantly recruit corporate accounts in our area, using various promotional tools.

For example, one of our biggest corporate account is a local department store (whose name I won't disclose here). They order flowers from us for various occasions. However, they NEVER place wire-out orders with us. A secret informant in that store told us that they are using 1-800 for all the wire-outs. I'm trying to find out what kind of deal they made with 1-800.
 
Your location is exceptional goldfish, but as you said, the corporate stores are definately putting a hurting on you in several areas.
The incentives that they offer big business are far too attractive, at the moment, for smaller shops to compete with.
We've experienced similar situations, and rely on customer dis-satisfaction and creative marketing to bring people back to the fold.
Unfortunately it takes time.
Keep doing what you're doing .
 
Before dropping FTD we were at 1.59, since dropping FTD we are at 1.05 and happy. I was a little concerned about outgoing coverage without FTD, but we were able to send 100% of orders out via Teleflora, and did not have to use our credit card once in December
 
goldfish said:
For example, one of our biggest corporate account is a local department store (whose name I won't disclose here). They order flowers from us for various occasions. However, they NEVER place wire-out orders with us. A secret informant in that store told us that they are using 1-800 for all the wire-outs. I'm trying to find out what kind of deal they made with 1-800.
Click to expand...

is the dept store using 800f online to send out? If so,that is pretty convenient for the dept store.

However, maybe you can inform the dept store that you could provide this service at a lower cost to them. Also, you have the advantage of providing better outgoing wire service than 800 because you know real florists across the country who will serve them better. or something like that.

just a thot
joe
 
RDeighton said:
Before dropping FTD we were at 1.59, since dropping FTD we are at 1.05 and happy. I was a little concerned about outgoing coverage without FTD, but we were able to send 100% of orders out via Teleflora, and did not have to use our credit card once in December
Click to expand...
Based on the last set of member numbers, Teleflora should have the best coverage, by far.

The new numbers should be out soon since the directories get updated Jan 1. Will be interesting to see if the patterns continue.

BTW, the nearly 1 to 1 ratio of outgoings to incomings at any florist in Florida is an amazing accomplishment. :>
 
goldfish said:
Interesting idea. I might do that. Regardless, my understanding is that they have a fairly strict recipe book and designers generally follow the recipe precisely. They do custom work, too.

The biggest strength of local 1-800 stores, however, is their local corporate accounts. They have sales/marketing people who constantly recruit corporate accounts in our area, using various promotional tools.

For example, one of our biggest corporate account is a local department store (whose name I won't disclose here). They order flowers from us for various occasions. However, they NEVER place wire-out orders with us. A secret informant in that store told us that they are using 1-800 for all the wire-outs. I'm trying to find out what kind of deal they made with 1-800.
Click to expand...


They have a giant boatload of huge corporate accounts. I know that they have a points system that for every dollar they spend they get rewards.
Plus they do sky miles....I am sure they have other perks aswell.
 
Outs to Ins ratios

2006 - 1.6:1

2007 - 2.6:1

We do no codifieds, ASB, directory ads, nor toll-free listings (which I've always thought were supreme BS)

Our online purchases from consumers add up to more than the combined total of outgoings & incomings. WSs become less of a factor for us every day.
 
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