IN/OUT ratios?
- Thread starter Joe Mioux
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prestonway
Well-Known Member
so you are 38pct in/out. correct? that is really good. So that's the reason you forwarded an order from me earlier this year.
for the year i came in at 83 pct. in/out.
joe
ps.
...hmmm...
Or then again, maybe 2.6/1 means for every 3.6 orders, 2.6 are outgoing and 1.0 is incoming.
Therefore, the percentage would be 1.0/3.6....or 27.8% of wire orders are incoming?
...just a thot...
BOSS
FlowerChat Administrator
You know what I noticed? Everyone, except me, who posted the ratio claims that Out>In. This makes no statiscal sense. Is FC a select group of elite florists who always does Out>In? I guess not.
A more likely explanation for this disparity is that there's a stigma associated with those florists who do more In's than Out's in FC, so they won't speak out.
In fact to be honest with you, I do feel a little pressure whenever I say we are a "filling" florist, the term which has a distinctively negative connotation in this forum.
See, that's one reason that I don't trust at all any so-called "polls" that are based on self-declaration, here or anywhere else. In one of the most recent polls conducted, the majority of business onwers said their business ethics is above average. Makes no sense.
A more likely explanation for this disparity is that there's a stigma associated with those florists who do more In's than Out's in FC, so they won't speak out.
In fact to be honest with you, I do feel a little pressure whenever I say we are a "filling" florist, the term which has a distinctively negative connotation in this forum.
See, that's one reason that I don't trust at all any so-called "polls" that are based on self-declaration, here or anywhere else. In one of the most recent polls conducted, the majority of business onwers said their business ethics is above average. Makes no sense.
Hey goldie, check those posts again. I show a 1 to 3 out to in ratio. almost 1 to 4. Negative or not I am a filling florist, and even my FTD rep refered to to me as such in a conversation we recently had. The truth is just the truth. Some others admit to being filling florists as well in other threads. Not my ideal situation, but that's where it's at for now.
Sometimes the "stigma" may just be not wanting to admit where you're at to yourself, let alone to others.
Here's another old data-set I can throw in, so that people can dissect (see attachment files).
"In-out ratio" shows the result of Incoming $ amount / Outgoing $ amount, plotted against each month. Same data mentioned earlier from last year.
You will see that, perhaps except for March, the ratio is remarkably constant. Some might also notice that there is a slight downward trend, meaning that as we enrich our client base, the ratio tends to go down. But the progress is very gradual; my projection is that it takes 5-6 years to reach 1:1 in
ut ratio.
"Wire sum" figure might be more interesting. Circles indicate Incoming orders in terms of $, while triangles indicate outgoing orders in $.
The incoming and outgoing move more or less in parallel, which explains why the ratio remains more or less constant.
The blue bars are our "top secret" - net gain/loss from WS-side of our business. The calculation of this number is too complicated to describe here in detail. Basically it is equal to:
(gross profit from wireins and wireouts)
- commission given
- COGS
- WS monthly fees
In this analysis, I did NOT include labor cost, as it can be considered in "excess" in our case - this is a debatable point, however.
What you see is that, except for Jan and Jul, we did manage to profit from WS side of our business, even though it is very small. Even at the best months, we made only about $2,000, which is still significant for a small shop like ours, but not enough to brag about.
Our break-even point is approximately $10K in net. In other words, WS contribution is about 20% even at the best month(s). In other months, they are not very significant.
"In-out ratio" shows the result of Incoming $ amount / Outgoing $ amount, plotted against each month. Same data mentioned earlier from last year.
You will see that, perhaps except for March, the ratio is remarkably constant. Some might also notice that there is a slight downward trend, meaning that as we enrich our client base, the ratio tends to go down. But the progress is very gradual; my projection is that it takes 5-6 years to reach 1:1 in
ut ratio."Wire sum" figure might be more interesting. Circles indicate Incoming orders in terms of $, while triangles indicate outgoing orders in $.
The incoming and outgoing move more or less in parallel, which explains why the ratio remains more or less constant.
The blue bars are our "top secret"
- net gain/loss from WS-side of our business. The calculation of this number is too complicated to describe here in detail. Basically it is equal to:(gross profit from wireins and wireouts)
- commission given
- COGS
- WS monthly fees
In this analysis, I did NOT include labor cost, as it can be considered in "excess" in our case - this is a debatable point, however.
What you see is that, except for Jan and Jul, we did manage to profit from WS side of our business, even though it is very small. Even at the best months, we made only about $2,000, which is still significant for a small shop like ours, but not enough to brag about.
Our break-even point is approximately $10K in net. In other words, WS contribution is about 20% even at the best month(s). In other months, they are not very significant.
Attachments
Did you just Diss almost half of the N American flower shops?
joe
Yup! He did. Not necessarily because they belong to TF, but because they are crappy - let me look at something.
Portland Oregon shows 143 flower shops (not restricted to wire service membership - our systems also shows non-affiliated florists. (and granted a few of those 143 are no longer in business)
There's not 15 of them I want to trust my client's orders to. Actually I have 13 on my Preferred Florist List.
Dallas Texas shows 254 florists and I have 13 on my Preferred list. The rest are untested entities for which I have the basic ASSumption that are not of the quality I like, for whatever (several) reasons, and I have 34 on the Don't Use status.
So maybe I just dissed around 90% of them.
Now my city shows 15 "covering" it and there's only ONE I trust my client's orders to. Imagine that!
Honestly I would send orders to 3 of the others if the need arised.
Um...er....uhhhhh..... Let me rephrase that.
Teleflora membership covers the largest geographic area within the US.
They were also underwhelmingly voted "Least Repulsive Wire Service of 2007" by FC members.
*wonders what the marketing department will do with that one.* :>
Teleflora membership covers the largest geographic area within the US.
They were also underwhelmingly voted "Least Repulsive Wire Service of 2007" by FC members.
*wonders what the marketing department will do with that one.* :>
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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I am a filling florist too....
My outs<ins by far....
Have said it many times and said I make money in this situation....I know this because if I was losing money I wouldn't be open...I have nothing to fall back on savings wise and have no more money to put into the business should it not support itself. Not smart but tis the way it is...
lori042499
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- May 3, 2006
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You should not feel pressure..I never do. I do realize that I run my business against the norm, but I also know what my numbers say and I know how to run a calculator and I know that my locals only will not make my bills, therefore I need another stream of revenue. Business is about strategy. Everyone's startagy may be different, some will work, some won't. You and only you can make the decisions for your business and you must do what works for you. If you feel this pressure because of what others say, rerun your numbers and make an informed decision. If a suggestion or opinion just doesn't make sense for you business you don't go with it.
lori042499
Well-Known Member
- May 3, 2006
- 6,457
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Here's another old data-set I can throw in, so that people can dissect (see attachment files).
"In-out ratio" shows the result of Incoming $ amount / Outgoing $ amount, plotted against each month. Same data mentioned earlier from last year.
You will see that, perhaps except for March, the ratio is remarkably constant. Some might also notice that there is a slight downward trend, meaning that as we enrich our client base, the ratio tends to go down. But the progress is very gradual; my projection is that it takes 5-6 years to reach 1:1 in
"Wire sum" figure might be more interesting. Circles indicate Incoming orders in terms of $, while triangles indicate outgoing orders in $.
The incoming and outgoing move more or less in parallel, which explains why the ratio remains more or less constant.
The blue bars are our "top secret"
(gross profit from wireins and wireouts)
- commission given
- COGS
- WS monthly fees
In this analysis, I did NOT include labor cost, as it can be considered in "excess" in our case - this is a debatable point, however.
What you see is that, except for Jan and Jul, we did manage to profit from WS side of our business, even though it is very small. Even at the best months, we made only about $2,000, which is still significant for a small shop like ours, but not enough to brag about.
Our break-even point is approximately $10K in net. In other words, WS contribution is about 20% even at the best month(s). In other months, they are not very significant.
Making $2000 from a wire service would pay all my overhead for the month and it has happened....for some of us this is very, very important....
So you are a proud openly filling florist, like me and ivygreen. Good. I suspect though there must be many filling florists hiding in closet.
Basically, larger, more established florists tend to gather more outgoing orders than the incoming orders they fill. They suck up a lion's share of local outgoing orders. In our case, that florist happens to be 1-800-flowers (in case some of you don't know, 1800F is a Long Island company, just like our shop).
Smaller, less established shops tend to be the ones who fill more than gather orders.
Why does this disparity exist? That's something we can discuss. I think the answer is a combination of two factors.
1) Larger, established florists have more loyal customers than smaller, newer florists. Many more. These loyal customers call their florists' of choice even for placing outgoing orders, because that's what they've been doing for decades. We don't have that kind of customers.
2) Larger florists can afford to reject/forward more incoming orders than smaller shops can. This doesn't apply to us because we do reject a lot of orders. But most of smaller shops don't reject as many orders as we do.
Smaller, less established shops tend to be the ones who fill more than gather orders.
Why does this disparity exist? That's something we can discuss. I think the answer is a combination of two factors.
1) Larger, established florists have more loyal customers than smaller, newer florists. Many more. These loyal customers call their florists' of choice even for placing outgoing orders, because that's what they've been doing for decades. We don't have that kind of customers.
2) Larger florists can afford to reject/forward more incoming orders than smaller shops can. This doesn't apply to us because we do reject a lot of orders. But most of smaller shops don't reject as many orders as we do.
gold, lori etc,,,,
I don't think it is a large v small shop, established v new shop, or large city v small city that causes a shop to be categorized as a filling or sending shop.
I think it is more Demographics and Geographic issues. Generally speaking and anecdotally, I see fewer and fewer people under the age of 40 coming to me to send outgoing wires and I can't remember the last time I saw someone under 30 in the shop wanting to wire out. The internet has changed that.
The big problem with this group is that I think they are relying on the .coms. This is where retail flower shop associations need to focus education. Get these webbies directed to retail flower shop internet websites and away from .coms.
Geographics? Well, FL is a state with a large retirement population and speaking with a few FL florists, they have told me they receive a lot more WI's than they WO. Same could be said with different parts of the country.
This geographic issue might also be why we hear so many FC'rs complain about the .coms when others such as myself very rarely receive them. I think I had one from Flowers For you, and three from tf headquarters this Christmas Season.
As I have mentioned in the past, its not about the incoming v the outgoing so much as it is about Contributing to your Gross Profit Margin.
Joe
I don't think it is a large v small shop, established v new shop, or large city v small city that causes a shop to be categorized as a filling or sending shop.
I think it is more Demographics and Geographic issues. Generally speaking and anecdotally, I see fewer and fewer people under the age of 40 coming to me to send outgoing wires and I can't remember the last time I saw someone under 30 in the shop wanting to wire out. The internet has changed that.
The big problem with this group is that I think they are relying on the .coms. This is where retail flower shop associations need to focus education. Get these webbies directed to retail flower shop internet websites and away from .coms.
Geographics? Well, FL is a state with a large retirement population and speaking with a few FL florists, they have told me they receive a lot more WI's than they WO. Same could be said with different parts of the country.
This geographic issue might also be why we hear so many FC'rs complain about the .coms when others such as myself very rarely receive them. I think I had one from Flowers For you, and three from tf headquarters this Christmas Season.
As I have mentioned in the past, its not about the incoming v the outgoing so much as it is about Contributing to your Gross Profit Margin.
Joe
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