Is it 1929 all over again?
- Thread starter BOSS
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Not even close. 1929 was way worse since people didn't have the access to debt and other resources to soften the blow. The old pictures of the breadlines are very scary.
This one will be pretty bad, but with access to credit and the goverment's trillions that will be pumped into the system, a lot of the pain will be delayed - or avoided. However, at some point we have to pay for flooding the market with money--and pay we will. I believe that the nature of our economy will be changed forever.
There's a lot of political factors that could change things either way, but that's not to discuss here.
This one will be pretty bad, but with access to credit and the goverment's trillions that will be pumped into the system, a lot of the pain will be delayed - or avoided. However, at some point we have to pay for flooding the market with money--and pay we will. I believe that the nature of our economy will be changed forever.
There's a lot of political factors that could change things either way, but that's not to discuss here.
I feel that things are going to get worst with all these million/trillions being used to "bail out" the problems. The 20's were worst, people have more latitude with their finances than those in the 20's.
However; I wish this were over, it will destroy much of our industry as we know it, and lives forever!
Everything has a price. Good luck to everyone here.
However; I wish this were over, it will destroy much of our industry as we know it, and lives forever!
Everything has a price. Good luck to everyone here.
Perhaps true Ted... but remember, that the depression that followed the crash of 1929 did not start until July 1930 and was not in full swing until 1932, and then it took until 1952 for the market and economy to recover to 1929 levels...
More tomorrow....
More tomorrow....
master J
Well-Known Member
Last week my mom had a customer who wanted "cheap" centerpieces for a party , she offered him a $25.00 rose & daisy basket. He said, oh no, don't you have anything less!
She explained that $25.00 was the lowest price we could offer for a centerpiece....what price did you have in mind?
He said $10 each! We offered him a single rose in a bud vase with accent flower but he said no, i'll try somebody else....good luck!
I have also noticed that a lot of customers are balking at prices, it used to be easy to get $50+ for an order but not lately...
Of course we have some customers still willing to spend good money but I have noticed a good amount of people cutting back. Especially big companies that used to order often, they no longer have the budget for flowers....
It is scary out there!
She explained that $25.00 was the lowest price we could offer for a centerpiece....what price did you have in mind?
He said $10 each! We offered him a single rose in a bud vase with accent flower but he said no, i'll try somebody else....good luck!
I have also noticed that a lot of customers are balking at prices, it used to be easy to get $50+ for an order but not lately...
Of course we have some customers still willing to spend good money but I have noticed a good amount of people cutting back. Especially big companies that used to order often, they no longer have the budget for flowers....
It is scary out there!
I am sure the european florists would differ....but one huge thing that affects us as florists is the mindset of Mr. and Mrs. Average American. They and us have geared our business to be an occasion/gift oriented business.
However, the mindset of Mr. and Mrs. Europe sees flowers as a part of everyday life, a neccesity if you will.
How do we change the mindset from occasional gift to everyday need?
However, the mindset of Mr. and Mrs. Europe sees flowers as a part of everyday life, a neccesity if you will.
How do we change the mindset from occasional gift to everyday need?
Our economy is driven a lot on feeling if people feel we are going into a depression they will not spend if they feel we are going to be ok then they will spend.This issue is going to be drivin by our political leaders and there choices which will effect how americans will react .I do believe the strength of this country lies with it's middle class and small buissness owners and the government needs to invest in American jobs education and stop being the police for the world. I do not feel this is going to get better anytime soon however I do believe we will come out of this a stronger country a more self efficient country.
I see a similarity to Japan's 1989 bubble burst. Real estate prices lost 2/3 of the values within two years, stock market lost 75% of its value. Almost 20 yrs later now, Nikkei index still hasn't recovered.
TOTO
New Member
All because of FREDDIE, FANNIE, and ACORN!
Hey Mark! You can DELETE MY POST and call it politics if you wish, but the facts are that, this entire FINANCIAL CRISIS was CREATED and TRIGGERED by FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC.
It was their ENRON STYLE of COOKING THE BOOKS while buying up MORTGAGES from other banks which are better known as NINJA LOANS.
The acronym stands for NO INCOME, NO JOB, and NO ASSETS!
This DEBACLE all began back in 1977 under Jimmy Carter when he enacted the Community Reinvestment Act.
The inherent bad loan practices of Freddie and Fannie were further exascerbated under Bill Clinton and got another rubber stamp of approval from Barney Frank, Barbara Boxer, Chris Dodd, Chuck Shumer, Barack Obama, and Harry Reid.
Freddie and Fannie were in fact, a DEMOCRAT'S PIGGY BANK and a place where they PLACED all of their POLITICAL CRONIES in.
ACORN used strong arm tactics in various local banks to intimidate those Bank and Loan officers into issuing these NINJA LOANS to their local communities.
Many of the failed lending institutions were told by FREDDIE and FANNIE, as well as POLITICIANS to issue these NINJA LOANS, otherwise they would not receive any other loans from them, and for any other reasons.
Add to this, the opportunity for GREED on the part of those lending institutions, when they were given this GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY of issuing these NINJA LOANS which were now FULLY BACKED BY THE US GOVERNMENT, and they just couldn't pass up the chance to make all of that money on the mortgage FEES and POINTS, only to BUNDLE THEM, and REBUNDLE THEM, as PACKAGES, and sell them off to FREDDIE and FANNY.
Where they got kicked in their tookis' was when, they decided to HOLD THE BAD PAPER or invest into the BUNDLES THEMSELVES, thinking that, they could make more money over the long haul, rather than selling it off to FANNIE and FREDDIE. Then, and when the HOUSING MARKET began to have an OVER SUPPLY of INVENTORY due to the BOOM and the prices began to fall due to the BUST, that's when their entire house of cards began to fall.
I've tried to make this scenario as simple as possible, but these are the facts, and YES, the problem all began with POLITICS!
Prior to the intrusion of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, the vast majority of our lending insitutions had a system of checks and balances in place, which gave them the guarantee of a borrower having the ability to pay back a lender, and based upon basic income and asset checks as compared to their Loan to Value borrowing ratios.
In other words, CAPITALISM REALLY DOES WORK, provided that, THE GOVERNMENT doesn't regulate it into SUBMISSION!
DARN! For a brief moment there, I almost thought, I was talking about MIDDLEMEN, SKIMMERS, DOG's, OG's, and the WS's, who either ENABLE THEM, or in fact, MORPH into them.
Foot Note: In my umble opinion, this DEBACLE is by far, the BIGGEST FLEECE of MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS, in the history of our nation. Not only have many Americans lost most, if not all of their retirement savings investments in some of these bankrupt institutions, they will now have to continue to work until they die.
And for others, the FEAR of the UNKNOWN has caused them to simply STOP SPENDING, even if they were not directly affected. Despite the reality that, many other Americans still have their retirement checks coming in on a monthly basis, especially those who were lucky enough to have Government Careers at the Federal, State, or Local Government levels, they too are FEARFUL, and so, they too have stopped spending!
Which brings all of us (especially in retail) to begin to fully understand what the real meaning of TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS is!
If those folks at the top of the money chain simply stop spending, the rest of us will feel their pain, and so on, and so forth!
I've always thought that, THE STATE OF OUR ECONOMY is a STATE OF MIND! When folks feel good, they spend good!
And for the time being, I don't know of anyone whom I've come in contact with lately, who feels anything but BAD right now.
Which is also why CHANGE seems to be so appealing to some. However, those folks must also remember that, before the current FANNIE and FREDDIE crisis, we were also saddled with the ENERGY CRISIS.
And that crisis was also, the direct result of the DEMOCRATS, especially Nancy Pelosi in Congress and Harry Reid in the Senate, due to their REFUSAL to DRILL HERE and DRILL NOW!
We need to call these people and demand that they EXPLOIT all of our own natural energy resources to include COAL, natural Gas, and new domestic oil reserves off of our own coasts, in our lower 48, and in Anwr, Alaska. We also need to call these people and demand a full investigation into the debacle of Freddie and Fannie, to include all of their former CEO's as well as Barney Frank who sat of the House Finance committee, Chris Dodd, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid, and all of those politicians who took PAC MONEY from both of those entities.
Failing that, WE, THE PEOPLE, will continue to get THE GOVERNMENT we deserve rather than, THE GOVERNMENT WE WANT!
Can anyone say: "WE'RE MAD AS HELL! And, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
Hey Mark! You can DELETE MY POST and call it politics if you wish, but the facts are that, this entire FINANCIAL CRISIS was CREATED and TRIGGERED by FANNIE MAE and FREDDIE MAC.
It was their ENRON STYLE of COOKING THE BOOKS while buying up MORTGAGES from other banks which are better known as NINJA LOANS.
The acronym stands for NO INCOME, NO JOB, and NO ASSETS!
This DEBACLE all began back in 1977 under Jimmy Carter when he enacted the Community Reinvestment Act.
The inherent bad loan practices of Freddie and Fannie were further exascerbated under Bill Clinton and got another rubber stamp of approval from Barney Frank, Barbara Boxer, Chris Dodd, Chuck Shumer, Barack Obama, and Harry Reid.
Freddie and Fannie were in fact, a DEMOCRAT'S PIGGY BANK and a place where they PLACED all of their POLITICAL CRONIES in.
ACORN used strong arm tactics in various local banks to intimidate those Bank and Loan officers into issuing these NINJA LOANS to their local communities.
Many of the failed lending institutions were told by FREDDIE and FANNIE, as well as POLITICIANS to issue these NINJA LOANS, otherwise they would not receive any other loans from them, and for any other reasons.
Add to this, the opportunity for GREED on the part of those lending institutions, when they were given this GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY of issuing these NINJA LOANS which were now FULLY BACKED BY THE US GOVERNMENT, and they just couldn't pass up the chance to make all of that money on the mortgage FEES and POINTS, only to BUNDLE THEM, and REBUNDLE THEM, as PACKAGES, and sell them off to FREDDIE and FANNY.
Where they got kicked in their tookis' was when, they decided to HOLD THE BAD PAPER or invest into the BUNDLES THEMSELVES, thinking that, they could make more money over the long haul, rather than selling it off to FANNIE and FREDDIE. Then, and when the HOUSING MARKET began to have an OVER SUPPLY of INVENTORY due to the BOOM and the prices began to fall due to the BUST, that's when their entire house of cards began to fall.
I've tried to make this scenario as simple as possible, but these are the facts, and YES, the problem all began with POLITICS!
Prior to the intrusion of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, the vast majority of our lending insitutions had a system of checks and balances in place, which gave them the guarantee of a borrower having the ability to pay back a lender, and based upon basic income and asset checks as compared to their Loan to Value borrowing ratios.
In other words, CAPITALISM REALLY DOES WORK, provided that, THE GOVERNMENT doesn't regulate it into SUBMISSION!
DARN! For a brief moment there, I almost thought, I was talking about MIDDLEMEN, SKIMMERS, DOG's, OG's, and the WS's, who either ENABLE THEM, or in fact, MORPH into them.
Foot Note: In my umble opinion, this DEBACLE is by far, the BIGGEST FLEECE of MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS, in the history of our nation. Not only have many Americans lost most, if not all of their retirement savings investments in some of these bankrupt institutions, they will now have to continue to work until they die.
And for others, the FEAR of the UNKNOWN has caused them to simply STOP SPENDING, even if they were not directly affected. Despite the reality that, many other Americans still have their retirement checks coming in on a monthly basis, especially those who were lucky enough to have Government Careers at the Federal, State, or Local Government levels, they too are FEARFUL, and so, they too have stopped spending!
Which brings all of us (especially in retail) to begin to fully understand what the real meaning of TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS is!
If those folks at the top of the money chain simply stop spending, the rest of us will feel their pain, and so on, and so forth!
I've always thought that, THE STATE OF OUR ECONOMY is a STATE OF MIND! When folks feel good, they spend good!
And for the time being, I don't know of anyone whom I've come in contact with lately, who feels anything but BAD right now.
Which is also why CHANGE seems to be so appealing to some. However, those folks must also remember that, before the current FANNIE and FREDDIE crisis, we were also saddled with the ENERGY CRISIS.
And that crisis was also, the direct result of the DEMOCRATS, especially Nancy Pelosi in Congress and Harry Reid in the Senate, due to their REFUSAL to DRILL HERE and DRILL NOW!
We need to call these people and demand that they EXPLOIT all of our own natural energy resources to include COAL, natural Gas, and new domestic oil reserves off of our own coasts, in our lower 48, and in Anwr, Alaska. We also need to call these people and demand a full investigation into the debacle of Freddie and Fannie, to include all of their former CEO's as well as Barney Frank who sat of the House Finance committee, Chris Dodd, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid, and all of those politicians who took PAC MONEY from both of those entities.
Failing that, WE, THE PEOPLE, will continue to get THE GOVERNMENT we deserve rather than, THE GOVERNMENT WE WANT!
Can anyone say: "WE'RE MAD AS HELL! And, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!"
I would agree with that comment. I have not seen this type of wide spread outrage since the late '60's and early 1970's but back then it was based on a war we should not have been in, Vietnam.
John, I knew when I made this thread that you would be the one to test my warning, but if that's what you were trying to do you missed the target. Your post while accurate is not the political type I was referring to. I do not want this to go into a McCain/Obama rant thread.
The current state of our economy has been in the pretty much exact same place it is today before. The similarities to the years leading up to the crash of 1929 and the ensuing 20 year recovery are very clear. While the driving forces were different the results are the same.
Today it's many of the things you mentioned, the housing bubble caused by fraudulent loans for one. Back in 1929 it was a fast uncontrolled expansion of the banking industry, this time it's kind of the same thing, but driven by housing and the associated banking that come with it. Back then it was a new fangled financial device the "investment trust" which was the forerunner of the modern mutual fund. Today, it's those very same mutual fund accounts that bought the ugly mortgages and began the fall that's still pulling our economy down.
I'll agree with you, it's all based on greed at the top, but it's up to those of us at the bottom to throw the bums out and put people in that will fix this mess.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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The truly "serious" repercussions of this, is that the rich will maintain THEIR standards of living, while the poorer, will pay the vast majority of the bills, because there are SO many of us!!
What IS eerily similar is that THIS crash has the SAME patterns, as those of the '29 meltdown, IS IN FACT, the greed AND squandering of resources of both the political, AND the banking systems, and here we go again!!
Few of us can attest to "living" through the depression, BUT, for those people that DID, it had a long lasting effect on how business, and spending affected their lives, AND values.
IF nothing ELSE prevails from this recession, the ONE COMMON THREAD, will be a less flamboyant society, by those, that cannot "afford" it!!
Seems, to me, that at SOME POINT, housing, auto, and personal effects expenses, HAD to come into "check", and rising exponentially overheads, for the average person, COULD NOT CONTINUE!!
Here's an "example" of how stupid this hamster wheel mentality IS...
Here, in OUR area, over several years, local governments have done EVERYTHING they could to get US, the taxpayers, to "conserve" on water usage (as an example), so, over time, the local users, HAVE INDEED, lowered their demands, AND reduced their usages, to the point that NOW, the local governments are crying "foul" because we DON'T generate sufficient water usages to meet their monetary budgets, AND are raising water usage rates to "compensate"......
This is a "sickness" in ALL levels of governments, and I would almost equate THIS downturn, into a revolutionary revolt BY the taxpayers, to the porking mentality of those that have lost their touch with reality!!
I "think" that we are NOT in danger of '29 mass hysteria, BUT, in the future, WE WILL "describe" this as OUR rendition of a depression, as WE KNEW it.....
What IS eerily similar is that THIS crash has the SAME patterns, as those of the '29 meltdown, IS IN FACT, the greed AND squandering of resources of both the political, AND the banking systems, and here we go again!!
Few of us can attest to "living" through the depression, BUT, for those people that DID, it had a long lasting effect on how business, and spending affected their lives, AND values.
IF nothing ELSE prevails from this recession, the ONE COMMON THREAD, will be a less flamboyant society, by those, that cannot "afford" it!!
Seems, to me, that at SOME POINT, housing, auto, and personal effects expenses, HAD to come into "check", and rising exponentially overheads, for the average person, COULD NOT CONTINUE!!
Here's an "example" of how stupid this hamster wheel mentality IS...
Here, in OUR area, over several years, local governments have done EVERYTHING they could to get US, the taxpayers, to "conserve" on water usage (as an example), so, over time, the local users, HAVE INDEED, lowered their demands, AND reduced their usages, to the point that NOW, the local governments are crying "foul" because we DON'T generate sufficient water usages to meet their monetary budgets, AND are raising water usage rates to "compensate"......
This is a "sickness" in ALL levels of governments, and I would almost equate THIS downturn, into a revolutionary revolt BY the taxpayers, to the porking mentality of those that have lost their touch with reality!!
I "think" that we are NOT in danger of '29 mass hysteria, BUT, in the future, WE WILL "describe" this as OUR rendition of a depression, as WE KNEW it.....
Boss, I have to say starting a string about economics is great but any serious discussion is useless without some mention of the differences between the Right and the Left way of thinking.
Everyone likes to point to business and then use the word "Greed". Are you greedy because you want to make as much profit from your business as possible? What about the consumers. Are they greedy when they want to buy more than they can afford? What about our own government who mandated that bank and other lending institutations provide a percentage of mortgages to subprime consumers, Were they greedy?
My personal take on what's happening to our economy is that everyone was "greedy" during the good times. As long as everyone was getting their share of the pie, everyone was happy? Now that the bubble has burst, everyone got burned and everyone is looking at the guy that got burned the least and saying....hey he owes me something.
As to 1929, well I don't think this is the same. But because of this being an election year, the method that will be used going forward by the politician that wins to bring us out of this problem is important. And history, shows that while Franklin Roosvelt did a lot to boost the morale of the public during the 30's his and his party's policies did not solve the problem. In fact, by the late 30's the economy was again going into a tailspin. Who we elect and the path they take going forward, might have history repeat itself again.
Flowerchatter03
Co-Owner and Floral Composer
Personally, I do not think it is 1929 over again. Those people had it much, much worse.
As for the politics of who is to blame....we all are. Everyone of us who owns more on a cc than we can afford is to blame. Everyone who bought a house they cannot afford is to blame. Everyone who never saved for a rainy day or market crash is to blame. Everyone who drives a car that gets 5 miles to the gallon is to blame. Everyone who filed bankruptcy and those businesses had to write off that debt is to blame.
Every financial industry who loaned money for houses, HELOC, cars, personal lines of credit and KNEW that person couldn't afford it, they are to blame. Every greedy corporate company who is now OOB and left their stockholders, retirees, employees with nothing while their CEO gets a $10 million dollar check for bankrupting the company is to blame.
Our government who allowed those loans to be written with no restrictions, no disclosures, no worries that they might not get paid back is to blame.
There is plenty of blame to go around but does it do any good to argue over who is to blame when we all are? The true question now is what are you going to do about it? How are you going to change your life? How are you going to change how you run your business? It is all up to each of us to answer these questions for ourselves, make a plan, and get moving.
As for the politics of who is to blame....we all are. Everyone of us who owns more on a cc than we can afford is to blame. Everyone who bought a house they cannot afford is to blame. Everyone who never saved for a rainy day or market crash is to blame. Everyone who drives a car that gets 5 miles to the gallon is to blame. Everyone who filed bankruptcy and those businesses had to write off that debt is to blame.
Every financial industry who loaned money for houses, HELOC, cars, personal lines of credit and KNEW that person couldn't afford it, they are to blame. Every greedy corporate company who is now OOB and left their stockholders, retirees, employees with nothing while their CEO gets a $10 million dollar check for bankrupting the company is to blame.
Our government who allowed those loans to be written with no restrictions, no disclosures, no worries that they might not get paid back is to blame.
There is plenty of blame to go around but does it do any good to argue over who is to blame when we all are? The true question now is what are you going to do about it? How are you going to change your life? How are you going to change how you run your business? It is all up to each of us to answer these questions for ourselves, make a plan, and get moving.
I agree sfox, and I see by your reply that you got the spirit of my warning. I meant that I did not want it to degenerate into a blame Bush thing, or a McCain/Obama diatribe...
It's all good!
Mikey, how dare you bring this up. You are talking about one of the biggest secrets that those goodie 2 shoes who want to save our planet are not telling the public. They talk about the need to "conserve". But what they don't tell the public is that once they get the public to conserve, that it is going to cost more to use less. You are being asked to change your lifestyle and then pay more for doing it.
Renewable energy is another one of those things being promoted as being the answer to all that ails us. The reality is that while renewable energy has potential, the financial result for the average person is that the cost of using this type of energy will be much higher than that what is being generated today. The average person will have to make big changes in his way of living, but the elite, like our famous Al, Save the Planet, Gore will live life large by buying energy credits.
This new way of thinking is trying to change the way our lifestyle was built on in the first place. Henry Ford made cars affordable by mass production. Flat screens TV's have dropped in price so that most people can afford one, this was done by the benefits of mass production. But the Save The Planet crowd want you to believe that by using less this will somehow solve our problems, when in fact all that will happen is that the cost fo the product will rise, probably to a point where again the average Joe 6 Pack will not be able to afford it.
Boss started this string talking about is this 1929 all over again. Well this group is trying to bring back the 1800's again, where on the elite will be able to afford basics like constant heat and light and water.
Maybe it's true that we don't learn from our own history. Mass production is what made our lifestyle what it is today, going the other way might not be the yellow brick road that they are saying it is.
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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the "implications" are "change" for the people, more pork for "some people that are more important than other" (a barnyard story)
Mikey the Flower Guy
It's a GREAT DAY to live, and love!
- Nov 10, 2002
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the Roaring 20's and the Roaring 90's will be viewed the same way, with the same repercussions, and for mostly the same reasons..a very good post FlowerChatter!!
This is a little off the topic, but, yet it plays into it quite well.
Did anyone see 20/20 Friday night with John Stossel? It was a very eye opening segment and all should try to watch it. It was amazing.
Go to www.abcnews.com and watch it. It should be required viewing.
In essence it is saying that individual Americans do things better, with less bureaucracy and at less cost, than the central planning collective known as government.
The report looked at facts, not opinion, or "feelings" concerning government's inability to live up to the high expectations caused by over-promising politicians.
Stossel used a visual metaphor to demonstrate why government regulations stifle individual initiative, leading to dysfunction. Even the uneducated could understand what he was saying.
Any thoughts from people watching this???
Carol Bice
Did anyone see 20/20 Friday night with John Stossel? It was a very eye opening segment and all should try to watch it. It was amazing.
Go to www.abcnews.com and watch it. It should be required viewing.
In essence it is saying that individual Americans do things better, with less bureaucracy and at less cost, than the central planning collective known as government.
The report looked at facts, not opinion, or "feelings" concerning government's inability to live up to the high expectations caused by over-promising politicians.
Stossel used a visual metaphor to demonstrate why government regulations stifle individual initiative, leading to dysfunction. Even the uneducated could understand what he was saying.
Any thoughts from people watching this???
Carol Bice
After I replyed to Mikey, an example came to mind.
One of my daughters lives in the house I grew up in. In the basement is a Kelvinator refrigerator that my parents purchased in 1947. It still works and is still doing the job it was built to do without any repairs.
Now upstairs, my daughter has a new energy efficient refrigerator. If you doing some checking the design life of that new energy efficient refrigerator is about 10 years.
So here is the question, which is better for our society in it's fight to reduce energy consumption, that 1947 Kelvinator refrigerator downstairs or the new energy efficient refrigerator upstairs. Keep in mind is the new energy efficient refrigerator has to be replaced every 10 years, so that means energy is used to make 5 more just to do the same job as the 1947 model downstairs.
Now it is our own goverment that is forcing us to change and it will be our government that we will have to trust to fend off the effects of this financial meltdown, just like the people of 1929 had to do.
One of my daughters lives in the house I grew up in. In the basement is a Kelvinator refrigerator that my parents purchased in 1947. It still works and is still doing the job it was built to do without any repairs.
Now upstairs, my daughter has a new energy efficient refrigerator. If you doing some checking the design life of that new energy efficient refrigerator is about 10 years.
So here is the question, which is better for our society in it's fight to reduce energy consumption, that 1947 Kelvinator refrigerator downstairs or the new energy efficient refrigerator upstairs. Keep in mind is the new energy efficient refrigerator has to be replaced every 10 years, so that means energy is used to make 5 more just to do the same job as the 1947 model downstairs.
Now it is our own goverment that is forcing us to change and it will be our government that we will have to trust to fend off the effects of this financial meltdown, just like the people of 1929 had to do.
- Status
