Just Want to make a few things Clear...

[BigBloomers]

I've been gone a little while and I see a few things have changed 'roun here. I also notice everyone flinging the "REAL FLORIST" lingo around. I'd like to see how many out there are putting their keyboards where their mouths are... I'm not trying to stir things up, but I'd like to know from all the real florists here...

Are you TF? FTD? FSI? 1800? florist direct? other ws?

How many of the FTD and TF addicts have trained staff ready to take a FLORIST DIRECT order? (that is without a huh? uh, is this a ftd order? what do you mean you are going to give me your credit card? i don't know how to put that in the computer...what? no tax?! can't you just send it thru the merc?)

 

[bloomz]

Send it thru MAS direct.....

 

[sunny]

We are quite prepared , only thing is under our provincial and federal laws we have to charge tax, if you notice in the ftd directory any incoming orders from the USA we have to take the first 18% to cover it. Unless you have some other way of hiding such transactions from big brother.

 

[BOSS]

How many of the FTD and TF addicts have trained staff ready to take a FLORIST DIRECT order?

As we spoke yesterday, you know my stuff, but for others here...

YES, my staff is ready to go, we have been taking direct orders for years, even while we are still FTD.

Thing about the Real Florist movement, is that in many cases, it takes some businesses more time than others to make changes that will not adversly affect their continued operation. Many things have to be dealt with, credit card clearings software reprogramming, etc....

It is happening, it will become a reality. Right now the current issue, is explaining and educating other florists. I had a conversation yesterday with someone that told me about a florist that thought because he got a check for $300.00 or so each month from Tf that he was doing well...this was on $3000.00 or so in orders....once it was explained to him, he then saw the Real Deal....takes time, takes effort....good thing there are some out there spending the time doing it!

 

[Jerry]

Bigbloomers, Nice to see you back. That is the million dollar question. But I'd rather dought you will get an answer from most. There are very few that are willing to take the bull by the horns. When the gorilla keeps getting fed, why should they do any different to their work force.

The common denominator between the ordergatherers-nonflorist is ?. No one wants to start the games all over again, but thats what needs to be done.

 

[BOSS]

There are very few that are willing to take the bull by the horns.

True enuf Jerry, but there are some, and anything worth while takes time to grow, and develope in a methodical manner so as to be sure when it does come out, it is fairly bullet-proof, because many will lobb mortor's or lay Claymore mines trying to throw things off track.

The common denominator between the ordergatherers-nonflorist is ?.

They are greedy, money grabbing electronic machines without human feelings and a lack of caring about the ones that do the work, the Real Florists.

No one wants to start the games all over again, but thats what needs to be done.

No, nobody does, but you are right, thats what it is going to take, and I am Dam*n'd determined to give it my best shot. Not saying I have the perfect answer, but the collective brain trust here, **IF** they were to be honest and admit that a change MUST occur could make it happen!

 

[BigBloomers]

rotfl

rotfl
what..to all 30 users across the country and Canada? Hope you have a HUGE deliver area.

Send it thru MAS direct.....

 

[BigBloomers]

stirin' the soup

Thanks, good to b back...dug myself out of my pile of work for a little while...

i can count on my one hand how many are willing to make that change...and thst's not enough. In my personal experience...I'll be very honest here... I refused to go with an ws right from the start. Im second generation, but what ws "benefits" my family had before is not what we have to work with now. I went with floral source after an INCREDIBLE hardship trying to get orders sent direct. We'd call a shop and the knothead on the other end just couldn't understand the concept. Think this is employees? Think again. Even SHOP OWNERS couldn't grasp the concept. We'd explain the incredible benefit to their company, and often the reply would be "But what about the rebate?" (duh--that's MY loss, not YOURS) or " My computer doesn't support that type of order" or best yet...just no viable reason...they just don't get it.

It frustrated me...and alienated us as well...So many of our "friends" in the business just couldn't understand why we weren't TF of FTD...Some just considered us inferior because we chose to send direct! Like "what? You're not in a ws? What kind of flower shop are you?" So I caved. FTD was pounding down the doors and I tried it. Everyone here COMPLAINS about the WS's...but MOST of your a STILL MEMBERS! So why not jump on the bandwagon? That way I can see for myself...and piss and moan like the rest but still fill those aweful orders to "keep busy". WHAT A JOKE! The WS's do suck! We're nothing but RATS IN A WHEEL. My payroll doubled. My dump increased. I spend 6 hours a month reconciling my ftd staement and correcting HUNDREDS of dollars of OVERCHARGES. Top it off? Everytime I start working with someone at HQ, they get fired or quit. FTD members 6 months...lost EVERYONE I've worked with. Don't give me that bs about how "if you're careful and you watch your #'s you can make it work". WHY MAKE IT WORK LIKE THAT? I want to spend 6 hours at the end of the month "making it work" for a $10,000 profit, not a $100 profit!

And if you're ever curious about the Big Box program...I'm the one to talk to. It's a stupid waste of money.

NOTE: I'm happy to say that I went into this with a "gamble" captial. I put money aside that I wasn't using as my FTD f^&* up Fund. I figured that once that money runs out...if it runs out...that we would bail and go back to the good ol days. Well, it ran out. That's sad. And I can honestly say we gave it 110%. We codified for everything, did EVERTYTHING our fbc (rep)suggested to make things work...FAH, FOL, Big Box..the works. We were a MODEL FTD shop. But since I was skeptical from the start, the Fund was set up so we didn't hurt from it. Granted, I look back and wish I had a Cartier Fund, or a New P89 Fund...but you have to learn from your own mistakes.

Another reason why I've been gone? I honestly can't stand the all-talk-no-action. For awhile it entertaining...but then it just gets hipocritical. There are some shops here that have enough $$ to make a change. And don't. You can't expect us small shops to take the BIG step. The BIG shops have to make the first move, or all the small shops will disappear and the big shops will just cover more ground and use the WS as a profitable tool. Or maybe that's the plan...



I think it's rather interesting that you, too, dodged the real question tho... I'll take it that you're not tied to any ws, cowboy?

Bigbloomers, Nice to see you back. That is the million dollar question. But I'd rather dought you will get an answer from most. There are very few that are willing to take the bull by the horns. When the gorilla keeps getting fed, why should they do any different to their work force.

The common denominator between the ordergatherers-nonflorist is ?. No one wants to start the games all over again, but thats what needs to be done.

 

[Jerry]

One of the most humbling and HONEST posts I've read in a long time. Thank for that.

You are right on, WS free for 3yrs and loving every day. I have been checking out IFA for our sending out direct, 0-100%. If this great change is going to happen in our industry, I feel you have to get the common denominator out of our business, that being the WS. Take them out, and the gatherers-non florist-discounted business can not hurt you. Everyone talks of the great change but when it comes right down to it they think "Theres an easier softer way to do it". I say cut them off at the knees.

Hanging on to the 80-20-rebates just fuels their fire.

 

[BigBloomers]

i likie you. i weally doo. i'm puttin u in my "favorite people to piss n' moan to" list. A man that stands up for what he believes in...and what he types. thank you Jerry.

We're still doin the FloralSource thing...Because of how hard it is to send orders out direct. Plus, they've always been good to us and we are yet to see a problem with them. I'm not worried about them competing against me.

Want to know MY big temptation to hang on the the ws's? Stupidly simple. My stupid reason is because I like the selection guides. I like the posters. I like the media kits. FloralSource's Selection Guide is kinda ugly. All of my customers toss it aside. They like FTD and TF's big, beautiful books. So do I. The photography gets people to buy something nice. John Henry has made efforts to produce "replacements" for the big 2 books. But their books don't quite cut it for me.

I will make a SERIOUS committment to all of you that if I see something REALLY materializing by means of a significant change in how we send/receive orders, that I will personally take the time and $$ necessary to produce a reasonably priced, YOU-own-it, absolutely beautiful, selection guide with SENSIBLE recipies that make arrangements realistic to consumers. I mean, a guide that looks as good as ftd's, but not tied to a ws. This would HELP our customers make choices the way they are USED TO DOING IT. You can do what you want with it... Buy it or not, whatever. NO monthly membership...just a pretty book with good florist-tested recipies that don't require you to carry every flower under the sun. Use the SRP's or make your own. No set split. No clearinghouse. I'd do this at COST... just for the selfish reason so that my customers get something like what they looked at and I can save myself $600 a month. I have 2 photographers, a print house, and a couple of eager designers waiting....

One of the most humbling and HONEST posts I've read in a long time. Thank for that.

You are right on, WS free for 3yrs and loving every day. I have been checking out IFA for our sending out direct, 0-100%. If this great change is going to happen in our industry, I feel you have to get the common denominator out of our business, that being the WS. Take them out, and the gatherers-non florist-discounted business can not hurt you. Everyone talks of the great change but when it comes right down to it they think "Theres an easier softer way to do it". I say cut them off at the knees.

Hanging on to the 80-20-rebates just fuels their fire.

 

[BOSS]

Buy it or not, whatever. NO monthly membership...just a pretty book with good florist-tested recipies that don't require you to carry every flower under the sun. Use the SRP's or make your own. No set split. No clearinghouse. I'd do this at COST... just for the selfish reason so that my customers get something like what they looked at and I can save myself $600 a month. I have 2 photographers, a print house, and a couple of eager designers waiting....

I'm game... I'll work on the off the wall designs :ssmoke.... if thats ok with you.

Seriously tho, this is something that can be accomplished. Might be good to get contributions from across the country too, I KNOW there are some high quality designers in the FlowerChat Nation....

 

[HERO]

Alright Big bloomers ...

I'm the bad guy you are talking about .... Big shop, won't take your 80/20 will take your 100/0 and hopefully get it back to you when I try to send to your town and you are closed to FTD.

But the "crack" rebate is too hard to get off of, you would say this too if you had been taking it for 7 years like me.

I'm all for 100/0 hope well all get there, it will save our industry. However if you are looking for the big guys to take one in the pocketbook for the good of the industry, it ain't gonna happen. The technology is there, the ease of sending and recieving, accounting, selection guide, logo, etc. etc. So we have to be MADE to change. We need to have to call out our orders to you at 100%. Close your city, town, or state to 80/20.

At my meetings with my florist group they look at me like an idiot wanting to give up the rebate and sending and everything else. They won't change their mind. They do see the good that would come, however they would have ALOT to lose also. If you have 40,000 orders how much would it cost you to send the out with a credit card and a phone???

Walk in my shoes, I just have 3,000 and I don't want to call em' all out. I like to hit send and "poof" they are GONE.

HERO

p.s. Educate me.

 

[BigBloomers]

I'm game... I'll work on the off the wall designs :ssmoke.... if thats ok with you.

Seriously tho, this is something that can be accomplished. Might be good to get contributions from across the country too, I KNOW there are some high quality designers in the FlowerChat Nation....

I think we should have an arrangement called THE BOSS. Big, bold, accented with a hint of unique leaves that provide the customer with a calming fragrance... :bloomz:

And yes I guess it can happen... But preachers aren't going to make the diff. Take for instance, did you get the email awhile back for the "gas strike"? I did. Gas prices were about $2.30/gal. The "gas strike" email hit EVERYONE I know...even the NEWS. That day that we were supposed to "ban buying gas", I passed by over a dozen gas stations...each with just as many customers as the day before. The gas hike deeply affected us ALL...but so many people are willing to forward the email and then disregard their own suggestion. Not to be mean, but their ignorance hurts us ALL. If everyone actually banned purchases that day--that WEEK...We'd probably be buying gas at $1.25 a gal right now. Those people make the rest of us swim upstream...and most of us that try to do so end up getting washed back into the pond and eaten by a bear. (huh?) (too much coffee this afternoon)

 

[BOSS]

Yes B.B.

I did hear aboout that email, even got it, but IMHO that was/is an unrealistic option...gas is a MUST HAVE for most...sending orders can be done in several different fashions.

And as to Hero's thoughts... yes David, there are some of BIG BOYS willing to give it up for the good of the industry and many think I'm an idiot too...however I know that for the good of the industry this is what must happen. Hell it WILL happen in time, I'm just not willing to wait because I know it's inevitable, and the sooner it happens, the more of a chance there is to save some family florists.

Folks, this is not ALL about order transfer (even tho I am working on that) but the FIRST thing that must happen is the removal of the deception that is rampant in the on-line floral industry. It is perhaps the MOST @@@@ed up thing on the internet, the only one that comes close is pehaps on-line pharmaceuticals, but I would bet it's flowers.

No I don't relish the idea of calling out my orders either, but if thats what I have to do I WILL!

 

[theRKF]

Just to add to Hero's comments, the rebates & commissions are more than crack - they allow a shop like ours to compete with OG's for orders. Without our rebates and 20% thousands more orders would go to FTD.com, TF.com, 800, etc. I'm using their crack to hang on to my market.

Yes, if we got rid of the 80/20 + rebate they would die, but until it's gone for everyone I need to take advantage of every opportunity. We have more outgoing than Hero mentioned, so you can do the math as to the hit we'd take by changing to 100/0, no rebate. Phoning orders is NOT an option. As long as the current system is in place someone is getting rich off it, and as a florist I want a piece before it ALL goes to the OG's.

I'm willing to work towards a better system, but IMHO that happens when
1) Florists better market THEMSELVES - OG's get orders because customers find them first
2) The deception and lies are stomped out, and the big OG wrench is pulled out of the works. The system CAN work, when it functions as it should, without the unbalanced weight of the SFO members.

Our primary focus should be on getting the customers back. If no one ORDERS with ftd.com they don't get the 20%, rebate, 7% and customer info. Beyond customer education, BE THE BEST CHOICE for the customer and let them know you are there.

Ex: Today I was looking for the phone number of a FlowerChat member and googled their shop name. Never did find their website, but I found plenty using similar wording. All the "wire service freeness" in the world won't help a customer call you.

Ryan

 

[BigBloomers]

I see what you mean...I'm not ignorant to the fact that you survive off of automation and a streamlined process of order generation. Heck, we try to do the same thing here with our 100 orders! I like the "poof" button too! Reliable, fast technology is important at any level of the game...our shop will never grow to be big if we think small-time writing out orders by hand and making ld phone calls.

That's where your "big $$" comes in. tee hee First off, lets start with the little things...
Logo. FTD's rep is what you bank on!? Your big, bad shop can't brand itself in your town? C'mon! Market to your customers that YOU make ftd, ftd doesn't make you who you are. I'd think you have more PRIDE than that! All it takes is one big shop in town to start saying they're better than the ws logo...people like better.
Selection Guide. I think I addressed that already. High quality, no "homegrown" pics. White backgrounds, trendy layout. It's not that hard to do. Sales techniques is another way around that. We encourage our customers to select "florists choice" type arrangements so the filling florist can use the freshest in the cooler. My customers like the sound of "freshest". They'd let go of the specifics to make sure the recipient gets a long lasting arr.
Websites/Graphics: There are a multitude of graphic and web designers with such talent that cater to our industry. I'm not naming names here....gets too complicated...but we have plenty of resources. John Henry produces a lot of FTD and TF paper materials. They also produce non-wire service items at similar price points. If those sold better, they would b cheaper than the ws prints.
Rebates: It's the carrot they dangle in front of the horse. Why are you falling for the carrot? They take millions and millions of dollars away from us and you're excited about a couple MEASLY thousand dollars in rebates? You're eating hamburgers when you could be eating steak every night!
Ahhh...technology: This is where I would rather refer you to the techies. Alas, I can't provide seamless solutions, because change NEVER goes that way. This type of change is like investing in your business...Buying a $1000 stemming machine instead of hand strippers. Buying a $5000 website instead of relying on the crappy ws brand. Buying an expensive software system to keep you on top of it all. It's an initial investment that hurts us all-at every level-at first. I don't know of any business improvement that doesn't cost us SOMETHING! You can't honestly walk around saying that you're willing to invest in quality equipment, but not in the FUTURE of BETTERING your ENTIRE industry! And I'm not really for the 100% deal. I prefer a 90/10...The sending florist is doing work and should be paid...plus I don't think the big senders would EVER go for a full 100. Heck, even if we kept it 80/20 but just ditched the 7%, high monthly fees and non-shop competition! There IS NON WS technology. George has ambition and a can-do attitude. A few big orders can put Flowersoft in a position to facilitate whatever it takes to keep the big orders rolling, I'm sure. George seems motovated and willing to work things out. MAS does have MAS Direct already. That concept is where MAS users are already sending to each other without ws interference! You have big $$...invest in a company dedicated to the cause so the rest of us can afford to go with a well-funded WELL OILED machine. Visual Ticket is motivated to get into the game...and they are a stable Windows based operation. There's been talk about a few other EXTREMELY well known, VERY reliable companies providing the software we need. But it takes an initial COMMITMENT. Not a...oh I'll see if it works out later on. No major corporation is going to build a software package around POTENTIAL, SKEPTICAL users! They need to see a DEMAND. Demand the technology and it will BE THERE.

You need to be MADE to change? I'll take care of that Italian style...Give me your home address and the addresses of all the owners in your group... lol (just jokin case u don't know me)

. The technology is there, the ease of sending and recieving, accounting, selection guide, logo, etc. etc. So we have to be MADE to change.

HERO

p.s. Educate me.

 

[bloomz]

Those last few posts were well thought out and Spot On!

thanks

 

[CHR]

Those last few posts were well thought out and Spot On!

thanks

Absolutely. Thank you all for your well thought remarks.

Market
Market
Market and then
Market some more.....

 

[Sher]

Really good thread

BigB....who are you? I think you have hit the nail on the head on so many points ...many of us want to do "something" but need a push I guess. One alone cannot do it, but even with this group I really have not seen a "plan". Today I spent hours searching out floral websites looking for something that was different, that would make me as a consumer want to buy........I was stunned at two things. One, the number of identical sites.......ws or otherwise....how boring can we all be. We are suppose to be creative folks..........no wonder the ws sites that florists buy into are not making money, There is NOTHING to make them stand out. Secondly......all of the non florists that are ranked so high........they must be paying a fortune.....and this is one area that we need to have a plan , get cool websites indexed, get them ranked and take the non-florists down! Interesting also was how many of our "real" florist friends that have separate sites that just gather orders...........is that bad.....maybe not...at least it is a "real florist" getting the order. I for one will take that over a ws order any day.
We are members of both WS's.TF is about out the door....but aside from the technology, one of the main reasons we stay with FTD is the images for our site..I can send an order anywhere in the country to another florist and they know what we want.........I am like Hero.........da man......I want to click and have it "poof". Also, a few times that we have taken direct orders.........if there is a problem, you have very little recourse to resolve problems.....at least in an expedicious way.It is just too time consuming.
Now in my reality, the ws is not that much of my 'Real" business.......we would have closed if it was. Our numbers are way up for last year.actually the best year we have had in 8 years of the 14 we have been in business. We accomplished that by sheer legwork, community involvement, terrific customer service, filling every order to value and then some, almost never saying "no" to realistic requests, and keeping all costs that we could down. Was it hard.oh yeah....was it worth it.......ask each of my employees.They all got a bonus this year......not as much as maybe the big shops gave but we did give a good bonus. And we added a few extra's like a paid day for their birthday. This year we are working on a small paid vacation.........but the point was, sorry to ramble..we do not make the WS more than they are. If it isn't right for us, we do not use it, buy it or sell it. If they raise my costs, we will leave and they know it......if I can't get service on my system I call the head guy......I am his customer and he better be providing me with excellent customer service. And believe me, I am really small potatoes in the Grand Scheme, but so are the WS in my reality..........so what's the plan..and when do we start.

 

[theRKF]

That's where your "big $$" comes in. tee hee First off, lets start with the little things...
Logo. FTD's rep is what you bank on!? Your big, bad shop can't brand itself in your town? C'mon! Market to your customers that YOU make ftd, ftd doesn't make you who you are. I'd think you have more PRIDE than that! All it takes is one big shop in town to start saying they're better than the ws logo...people like better.

Most of our customer's don't know/care what WS we belong to. They come to US for service and we make it happen. The choice of WS is an internal matter, in my mind, like any other wholesaler or service provider. People come to us for the Martin's name. The "FTD Brand" lost value 15 yrs ago.

Selection Guide. I think I addressed that already. High quality, no "homegrown" pics. White backgrounds, trendy layout. It's not that hard to do. Sales techniques is another way around that. We encourage our customers to select "florists choice" type arrangements so the filling florist can use the freshest in the cooler. My customers like the sound of "freshest". They'd let go of the specifics to make sure the recipient gets a long lasting arr.

Done - twice yearly full colour unique design, direct mailed. You can find our Winter 2004 brochure in another thread.

Websites/Graphics: There are a multitude of graphic and web designers with such talent that cater to our industry. I'm not naming names here....gets too complicated...but we have plenty of resources. John Henry produces a lot of FTD and TF paper materials. They also produce non-wire service items at similar price points. If those sold better, they would b cheaper than the ws prints.

I do my own - it's more fun that way

Rebates: It's the carrot they dangle in front of the horse. Why are you falling for the carrot? They take millions and millions of dollars away from us and you're excited about a couple MEASLY thousand dollars in rebates? You're eating hamburgers when you could be eating steak every night!

Rebates reduce my advertising expense by a significant amount. I can afford to do my web site, unique full colour ads and print material because of the thousands in rebates we receive. Opt out of the rebates and it becomes much less appealing to compete head to head with the Vancouver Flower Companies and Flora2000's of the world. I want this any any other real florist getting those orders, but it costs money to get business.

Ahhh...technology: This is where I would rather refer you to the techies. Alas, I can't provide seamless solutions, because change NEVER goes that way. This type of change is like investing in your business...Buying a $1000 stemming machine instead of hand strippers. Buying a $5000 website instead of relying on the crappy ws brand. Buying an expensive software system to keep you on top of it all. It's an initial investment that hurts us all-at every level-at first. I don't know of any business improvement that doesn't cost us SOMETHING! You can't honestly walk around saying that you're willing to invest in quality equipment, but not in the FUTURE of BETTERING your ENTIRE industry!

I'm a techy, so I'll address this - A POS system, stripper, cutter, really nice design knife - they all have an immediate positive economic impact. The only immediate impact of dropping a WS and the rebates and 20% is INCREASED costs, much higher labour demand, and reduced ability to service my customers. I am willing to invest in my company by paying a WS fee relatively low compared to the service I get. I squeeze every bit of service out of the WS I can for my monthly fee. All things considered, my cheapest employee.
Yes, I'm willing to invest in my industry, but I want to still be in business when people are reaping the benefits.

And I'm not really for the 100% deal. I prefer a 90/10...The sending florist is doing work and should be paid...plus I don't think the big senders would EVER go for a full 100. Heck, even if we kept it 80/20 but just ditched the 7%, high monthly fees and non-shop competition! There IS NON WS technology.

20% makes it profitable. 10% doesn't interest me (just being honest). I'd happily give up the 7% and send/receive florist direct through MAS Direct. I love it. Just make sure the florist paying me doesn't default on their bill or gives me a credit card. And I sure as hell don't want to be bothered going after some shop for a declined card on a discounted order. The WS guarantees your payment, gives you a paper trail and accountability. For the number of orders sent & received here at the monthly cost, it's profitable. "High monthly fees" is a relative term. You're with FSI and they are cheaper than most. Non-shop competition will be there as long as they out-market us and beat us to our own customers. Every order placed through Simon Says Roses, FlowersCanada.com or Flowers by Sears is a floral customer lost because some shop didn't get in the customer's face. We have to starve them out - refusing to fill their orders only diverts the tide. Take back your customers and understand carefully how each service provider you deal with can benefit you. If your volume doesn't make it worthwhile to belong to a WS, then don't - it's just common sense. If you're higher volume, a WS and the automation it provider are valuable business tools.