JustFlowers

[goldfish]

[sarcasm ON]I love JustFlowers. :kuddle: [sarcasm OFF]

Because of some recent incident involving an wire-in order from flowerdelivery.com (a.k.a. JustFlowers), I decided to place an order with them.

I decided to order what they call "Sunflower days", the one that had caused a problem that prompted this investigation. Here's a screen shot of the order page (order page).

Note the price: $59.99. It's a nice Sunflower arrangement for the price. This price will "evolve" quite dramatically as you will see later.

As I moved along to the Recipient-Info Page (Recipient-Info Page), I noticed that they added $9.99 of what they call "Shipping and Service Fee." Since they don't "ship", I would say "Shipping" is quite misleading. Now the total is $69.98.

But the worst part was yet to come...:musical:

When I moved to the final confirmation page (Order-conf page), I noticed something very weird in the price.

Pay a close attention to the itemized list:

Subtotal: $52.79
Handling: $7.20
Shipping and Service: $9.99
TOTAL: $69.98
​

That's right. They just deducted $7.20 from the order, and now my $59.99 Sunflower was devalued to $52.79.

And, you've got to trust me this one.... They will send this $52.79 order to the filling florist. Why do I know this? Because we received this order through mercury: "Sunflowers and greens and solidasters in a clear vase" for $52.79. No specific description about how many stems of Sunflowers, or anything of that sort. With this kind of price, after subtracting a delivery charge, most florists would throw in only 6-8 Sunflowers plus greens/fillers. That's what we did.

The customer called and informed us that the arrangement was a lot smaller than the one she had ordered (she ordered it to herself). If she had sent the flower to someone else, there is little chance that the recipient would have complained.

They just skimmed $7.20 from $59.99, which is a whopping 12% of the order.

For their "credit", JustFlowers actually implies they would skim the order. Click on their delivery&pricing info (pricing info), they say:

"Prices shown below product iamges... may include a handling fee..." "Shown prices for florist delivered products may include a handling fee..."​

They add this disclaimer, presumably to avoid a legal liability of their skimming practice: one of those "But-I-told-you-so" defense, a wonder-world of fine print.

Just out of curiosity, I tried to order another arrangement, this time a dozen rose. Since this one has the number (dozen) in the order, I thought they would have a harder time to skim.

I was right.

On this final confirmation page (confirmation page), this time the "handling fee" is only $3.99, leaving $60 for a clueless florist to fill. I'm sure a lot of florists would gladly make/deliver a dozen-rose arrangement for $60.

Have you got a $60 rose order from JustFlowers lately?

 

[CHR]

Good work, goldfish! Yep - 'legal' skimming except it's bait and switch since the customer did not receive what he/she was presented.

I hope you send a copy of this to Mike Soenen and urge your customer to contact FTD as well.

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I Indeed....

Good work, goldfish! Yep - 'legal' skimming except it's bait and switch since the customer did not receive what he/she was presented.

I hope you send a copy of this to Mike Soenen and urge your customer to contact FTD as well.

think this is an "issue" to paste on Mike's forehead!!....though I DON'T think it's HIS doing completely!!
Floral consumers are NOT as bright as many of us give them credit for, and I'm thinking....the ONLY WAY to avoid problems as exposed by Goldfish, is to keep a "stash" of BLANK CARDS, delivery tags, and labels for just such orders!!
It would prompt the sender/recipient to initiate the complaint with the Order Gorillas first, and THEN maybe they'd start "getting it"!!

 

[goldfish]

I hope you send a copy of this to Mike Soenen and urge your customer to contact FTD as well.

I am writing a letter now. In it, I emphasize the fact that JustFlowers stole money also from FTD.

JustFlowers skimmed $7.20 and then sent $52.79 insterad of the original $59.99 order. As the results, FTD earned only $3.70 (7% of $52.79), not $4.20 (7% of $59.99), reduction of $.50 per order. I don't know how many JustFlowers orders are going through mercury, but $.50 per order can quickly add up. Now, THAT should get their attention. FTD should just kick them out, just like Teleflora, for their own sake.

 

[CHR]

I would never knowingly help an OG rip off a consumer. Either an order goes out proudly with our name on it, or we don't fill it.

This may not be anyone at FTD's 'doing' - but one of their top volume affiliates whose income is primarily derived from it's membership in FTD - is giving consumers valid reasons every day NOT to make future flower purchases.

 

[fairfield]

So, just curious here, why would you want to remain a member of an organization that fosters this business practice - especially if you think it is giving consumers a reason not to buy flowers?

Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?

 

[Victoria]

So, just curious here, why would you want to remain a member of an organization that fosters this business practice - especially if you think it is giving consumers a reason not to buy flowers?

Kind of like shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?

Exactly.

I've just sent a letter of resignation from FTD for my friend... after months of begging for something to be rectified (promises from all sorts of people) they did nothing. So a 26 year affiliation is over.

V

 

[BOSS]

Yo Fish

Awesome job! And documentation....

IMHO, I would not waste my time with FTD, trust me when I say they will do nothing about it. Justflowers skims on every order as far as we can tell, especially when you order the Premium selection, the candy and the bear... they only transmit the lowest price for the add-ons even when the consumer purchases the bigger one. Like when a consumer orders the Delux Bear, they transmit only the amount for the standard bear....

BTW....can I get permission to use your experience and screen shots on www.floristdetective.com ?

 

[NPFloral]

Wondering why a local person would order flowers for themselves thru an online OG? You should do some more local marketing Goldfish.

Tim - North Port Floral

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

I simply cannot believe that anyone here is the least bit surprised about this...HEL-LOOO!! The WSes are and will continue to be complicit partners in this scam, and EVERYONE HERE WHO IS PART OF A WIRE SERVICE IS *KNOWINGLY* AIDING AND ABETTING THESE CROOKS AND IS RIPPING OFF CUSTOMERS ON A DAILY BASIS, ALL FOR THE ALLMIGHTY DOLLAR BILL.

There, I said it. Banish me to Floristboard!

 

[CHR]

She may have gone to the YPs. JF is running coupons under each city, including Huntington, with 'discounts' ranging from $5 - $10 off. The ads say "Local Florist Deliveries" and "Best Online Florist". Shoppers see pretty pictures and don't realize that JF not only costs more than a local store (even with the discount), but that their pictures are not shared with filling florists as a point of reference.

How many shops would accept the real description of what was shown: 10" tall glass vase filled with 1 Dz large sunflowers, 1/2 bu solidaster and light foliages - $52.79 including delivery. ($37.50 in WS dollars).

That sunflower page has a funny little disclaimer, btw - "Number of flowers may vary depending on their size." The truth is "Number of flowers will depend on how many of your dollars we skim."

NPFloral - How many consumers are persuaded by discounts and 'free' offers? Do you think we locals should raise our prices so that we can give these phony deals, too?

Goldfish, I'd love to know how they handle the 're-appropriation of funds' on phone orders. Does the operator explain each fee?

Stating one fee as "shipping and service" and another as 'handling" implies that the cost of delivery of the product will not be deducted from the price of the flowers. The is ethically and morally corrupt and a betrayal to consumers, local florists and the industry.

Now who's gonna send a letter to endorse Valerie's proposal or are we just going to spend a few more years complaining on message boards?

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I simply cannot believe that anyone here is the least bit surprised about this...HEL-LOOO!! The WSes are and will continue to be complicit partners in this scam, and EVERYONE HERE WHO IS PART OF A WIRE SERVICE IS *KNOWINGLY* AIDING AND ABETTING THESE CROOKS AND IS RIPPING OFF CUSTOMERS ON A DAILY BASIS, ALL FOR THE ALLMIGHTY DOLLAR BILL.

There, I said it. Banish me to Floristboard!

NO....you're telling the "truth" as you see it!!:hammer:

 

[Jerry]

Now who's gonna send a letter to endorse Valerie's proposal or are we just going to spend a few more years complaining on message boards?

Cathy, I've been listening to all the complaining for 5 years now. Nothing has changed or will change. I have total empathy for those that feel they can not leave the WS (tech jail,80-20-rebate,support,hold my hand,or whatever), because that is the vain that delivers the knock out blow to a lot of florists.

IMHO, all the letters in the world will not make a difference. It's big money for this game to be played out, just the way it is set up. There is only one way to stop this run away train, stop fueling it.

 

[sfox]

Why Boss?

Awesome job! And documentation....

IMHO, I would not waste my time with FTD, trust me when I say they will do nothing about it. Justflowers skims on every order as far as we can tell, especially when you order the Premium selection, the candy and the bear... they only transmit the lowest price for the add-ons even when the consumer purchases the bigger one. Like when a consumer orders the Delux Bear, they transmit only the amount for the standard bear....

BTW....can I get permission to use your experience and screen shots on www.floristdetective.com ?

Boss, I have a real problem with your reply. Why shouldn't every florist call FTD on the carpet for this! Think about it. FTD charges each and every florist a quality assurance fee, yet when presented with documentation turns their back.

If you believe what you are saying that Justflowers can skim off the top and it is OK with FTD, then why shouldn't it be OK for every florist to skim off the top filling orders? If we are going to let this industry go to hell in a handbag, why shouldn't florists try to make money till the end!

Because by just sitting by and letting companys like justflowers give flowers are bad reputation, we are cutting off our own noses.

Maybe all this documentation should be given to the media and let them show the public how they are being ripped off and make it very clear that florists are strongly against these practices

 

[fairfield]

Now who's gonna send a letter to endorse Valerie's proposal or are we just going to spend a few more years complaining on message boards?

I've been in this business a short four years and I can answer that for you. Action speaks louder than words and I have yet to see a movement to ACT.

In my opinion, no letter-writing campaign is going to change anything as long as the MAJORITY of florists are rooted in traditions they refuse to abandon.

 

[12BucksFor2Dozon]

...
Maybe all this documentation should be given to the media and let them show the public how they are being ripped off and make it very clear that florists are strongly against these practices

Well what happens then when the media finds out that many of the skimmers and scammers ARE B&M florsts, disguised by fake corporate names and hidden behind shiny web sites?

Yes blah blah more blather about nutin'...

 

[BOSS]

Boss, I have a real problem with your reply. Why shouldn't every florist call FTD on the carpet for this! Think about it.

Simply cuz writing to Soenen will do nothing....I know for a fact.

Maybe all this documentation should be given to the media and let them show the public how they are being ripped off and make it very clear that florists are strongly against these practices

Thats already been done, keep your remote control handy...won't be long now!

 

[Victoria]

Simply cuz writing to Soenen will do nothing....I know for a fact.

He did forward our letters about a financial dispute on to Larry some one or other... some guy in Tech services. Larry made promises to fix it in February... still nothing. Now, what some Tech guy has to do with a financial dispute regarding unauthorised advertising and the continuing charges for Norton (maybe that makes sense), is beyond me. I do have in writing that this will be fixed, oh and verbally (numerous times) from the local rep... this will be fixed... in this millenium would be great. I wonder, when the monies are refuned, will the interest be attached...

The local rep by the way didn't return numerous phone calls until I left a rather heated message the other day.

Also, be aware that is you have a dispute and you have Cash Flow... they will raid your account.

So Mark, you're right... it's like a black hole in that place.

V

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

I simply cannot believe that anyone here is the least bit surprised about this...HEL-LOOO!! The WSes are and will continue to be complicit partners in this scam, and EVERYONE HERE WHO IS PART OF A WIRE SERVICE IS *KNOWINGLY* AIDING AND ABETTING THESE CROOKS AND IS RIPPING OFF CUSTOMERS ON A DAILY BASIS, ALL FOR THE ALLMIGHTY DOLLAR BILL.

There, I said it. Banish me to Floristboard!

False statement there, 12!

I am part of the "crooks" you refer too and I can tell you for a FACT that any order from Justflowers gets REJECTED here...not to mention any OG order that you can CLEARLY see has been skimmed. We don't even bother with ASK's anymore... (Some OG's don't even bother to send us orders anymore). When will YOU learn that not EVERYONE can do without an electronic means of transferring orders! So, riddle me this Batman, how else am I gonna get my 400+ orders out in December this C-mas without a MAJOR wire service to assist me? Sheesh....

Yea, yea, we KNOW what you're saying. And, you have a legit. point about the w/s!!!! But take it easy on your fellow florists...we're all in the same boat. Listing to the port side, yes, but it hasn't sunk yet!

- Herb

 

[PhillyPhlorist]

That sunflower page has a funny little disclaimer, btw - "Number of flowers may vary depending on their size." The truth is "Number of flowers will depend on how many of your dollars we skim."

Yea, noticed that too! Hmmm...unless you (the florist) SAW that disclaimer, you would never know, would you.

Nice post Goldie! Clearly, they are shifting the dollars around.

- H.