Mission Viejo and Teleflora Fraud

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David

David

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2003
926
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Cambridge
www.centralsquareflorist.com
State / Prov
Massachusetts
My store filled an order for Mission Viejo florist also www.11florist.com for TF-Web43
I was given 60.00 through Teleflora to fill so after my $10.00 delivery charge is deducted it was 50.00. Recipient who was also the sender spent 69.95 for item and Handling and delivery charge of 12.50. They also charged her 6.80 tax. For a total of 89.25. I have her receipt that she e-mailed me. They stole at least 9.95 of order since they call it a delivery I would say 22.45. Not sure if Tax was done correctly. Here in mass the delivery is not taxed and our rate is 5%
I explained how she robbed by Mission Viejo i.e. www.11florist.com as a good will gesture she could stop in and I would give her free flowers to correct the scam she put through. I also said I could show her the order from www.11florist.com.

Here is the order she placed with them:

tem(s) ordered on November 22, 2006 at 8:06 a.m.
Order Confirmation #: 43969
Total: $89.25


Your Items




Autumn Gerberas - Deluxe # TF-WEB43





Deliver on 11/22/2006 to:
Ms Melanie


cambridge, MA 02141
United States


Occasion:
Holiday

Message:
Happy Thanksgiving
Melanie

Special Instruction:
Please deliver after 5 pm, or call me an hour b4 delivery

Item
Autumn Gerberas - Deluxe: $69.95


Handling & Delivery: $12.50


Tax: $6.80

Subtotal: $89.25

I removed phone, name and address of recipient from above.
 
CHR said:
Could phony sales tax be yet a new source of revenue for these dOGs?

With the kind of $ those guys have been spending on PPCs, you just know there's something going on.

This is TFs top sender IIRC. Hope you notify TF - although I doubt they'd be surprised.
Click to expand...
TF does NOT care...they know already! I'm fairly certain thats why Ed got fired, cuz he was asking too many questions regarding their stable of OG's...

As to the phoney sales tax issue, IMHO it's a legitimate thought. I'm pretty certain that the few shops listed under the Kays banner are collecting illeagle tax in Texas, based on my limited knowledge of their state tax laws. I would not be suprised if many of the OG's were goind the same thing.
 
I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why you TF members allow your "partner" to have a free pass on items like this, profit be dam*ed.

When the number 1 sender of this company (ref CHR post) is actively ripping off customers, I change that any TF member who reads the above post and does not immeadietly contact TF in outrage or drop them, it 100% complicit in this SCAM and deserves the same fate as this 11flowers.com operation.

Jail.

I am SICK of reading post after post of companies that are destroying this business that I work so hard in and have sacrificed so much for, just for everyone to ignore each and every item because doing something about it would entail losing a small amount of your monthly profit. Each and every TF member here on FC is just as guilty of backing this scam as the company itself.

awww....whatever....
 
Not that it matters much, but I think the sales tax laws say that you are liable for any taxes you collect, not just the correct amount of tax for your sales. If some angry, reputable florist had evidence that these people overcollected sales tax, it would be their obligation to report them :fdevil:
 
Bigted said:
If some angry, reputable florist had evidence that these people overcollected sales tax, it would be their obligation to report them :fdevil:
Click to expand...
I'm not "angry" (and mark I'm not TF either) and yes, Ted they have been reported...the wheels of justice where the State and Fedearl Govt are concerned turn very slowly, if at all...
 
12BucksFor2Dozon said:
I just cannot, for the life of me, figure out why you TF members allow your "partner" to have a free pass on items like this, profit be dam*ed.
Click to expand...

We know - you can't for the life of you figure it out.....


12BucksFor2Dozon said:
. Each and every TF member here on FC is just as guilty of backing this scam as the company itself.

awww....whatever....
Click to expand...

That's just silly.

Hippy Thanksgiving!
 
David,

Have you called TF about this and do you have a problem with me copy this, distributing locally to fellow TF florist and sending with a letter to TF as yet another example of why we get closer and closer to cutting all ties?

Knifes wifes
 
I'm TF and have talked myself purple to them. I've seen some bad boys get cleaned up lately but there are more to go.

12Bucks - the reality is I need to get orders out to service our customers. Calling out by CC is not an option because it takes too much time. With our volume at Christmas, we'd have to hire more staff just to handle that aspect of our business. (We only charge a nominal service fee of $3 for phone-in/walk-in outgoings and zero dollars on orders via our website.) IFA has too little coverage and FSI has as many issues as the other WS.

I am sick about the situation, too.

I hope David's customer complains to both the CA and MA Attorneys General - and the FTC. Most just get their money back (once they catch these guys) and chalk it up to experience. Florists filing complaints (on paper or electronically and not just making phone calls) with the proper authorities and CCing the wire service(s) is an effective way to get heard.

Filling florists are being both defrauded and damaged as a result of the skimming. Who will pay David back for his time? his loss of reputation? his loss of goodwill?

David would have been lucky to have had $10-15 left over after paying COGS, labor, delivery, receiving fee, etc if all had gone well.

I've been in his shoes more than once (caught between a dOG and an angry consumer), which is why we fill for no one but real florists now.

From the receipt, 11flowers will net
22.90 in 'service charges'
12.00 in commission
_6.00+? in rebate
40.90 total take on the order

Yes, it's sick.
 
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Let's face it...the ONLY way to slow & potentially stop this fraud is to not fill the order.

Sorry 12 bucks, you can't lump ANY member of TEL here...and no, dropping a w/s is not the answer. Yes, some florists turn a blind eye to these orders, but they are only helping the OG cause.

You must reject the order. Period.

This holiday marks the first time I have rejected so many OG orders. I think it was 7 yesterday, and 5 today (and, ANY order that I cannot make money on gets refused...). You just have to look at yourself in the mirror and say - this is wrong. Don't accept the order...NO ONE can force you to...except yourself.

- H.
 
flowerknife+us said:
David,

Have you called TF about this and do you have a problem with me copy this, distributing locally to fellow TF florist and sending with a letter to TF as yet another example of why we get closer and closer to cutting all ties?
Knifes wifes
Click to expand...

I sent an e-mail to Rick Davis and my old rep that has a new position there now.
I think calling would go nowhere. Any suggestions to anybody else I should send it to?
Yes print, copy and paste all you like.
 
Located in Mission Viejo, I'm very familiar with these guys. In fact, I've been to their "shop" which is nothing more than a office with telephone operators (also known as Broadway Florist as well). They are notorious for skimming orders.

We also get A LOT of complaints from people looking to contact Broadway Florist A.K.A. 11Flowers who do a search online and somehow get our number, and we always kindly give them the correct number. :) We stopped filling orders for them a long time ago...
 
Same scam as JustFlowers

In case you didn't know, we had exactly the same problem as you described, in our case with JustFlowers.

Anyway, click on "Delivery" link on www.11flowers.com (bottom of the page). Here's what you will see...

Fineprint1
Fineprint2

Incidentally, here's JustFlowers' fineprint. Identical language as fineprint1 above. Don't know who copied whom, but if they can get away with this as a way to "justify" order skimming, soon we will have a whole bunch of order-skimming copy-cats.
 
Such a sickening story! And who gets the blame?? And who offers a free arrangement for good will??

Cathy, I have never had a problem with IFA not being able to find a florist for me. We don't call out our wire-outs unless we know the florist very well and have an agreement with them to send a check rather than using our CC. IFA is integrated with our POS, so we send the order out via that. Not that I'm trying to convince you or anyone else to use any method other than the one with which you are satisfied, but just sharing my experience.
 
Sales Tax

If the customer had ordered from me the tax would have been 5 percent (MA Tax) of the item and the delivery would not be taxed. On a 69.95 purchase the tax would have been 3.50. The 12.50 delivery would not be taxed. The sender paid an additional 3.30 by skipping the local florist. How is the tax figured in CA?
The sender was looking for a local florist but was deceived by the search results on the web.
 
California sales tax is different depending on whether a company has a brick & mortar location or is just an OG.

B&M shops must collect prevailing sales tax on all orders (including delivery & relay) whether they originate locally or from another state/country or are for local deliveries or wire outs. Orange County sales tax rate is 7.75%. LA County's is 8.25%. The sales tax on David's invoice appears to be based on LA County's rate.

JustFlowers.com and ProFlowers successfully petitioned the Board of Equalization to rule that 'online only' sellers were exempt from the same taxes as real florists. Their tax rates are based on CA Regulation 1620. If I'm reading correctly, sales tax would apply on purchases by Californians to California and use tax would apply on deliveries within the state by out-of-state purchasers.

An OG with a B&M has to tax everything. An OG without a B&M doesn't.

As far as 11flowers goes, there are three possible scenarios:

- They could still be taxing all orders at the CA rate since they are located in CA. (But the call center is in OC, which has a lower level than indicated on the receipt.) I believe 11flowers is related to a B&M store in San Clemente ("Flowers & Ballons" and "M L Flowers") although I do not know if they are run separately.
- They could have a B&M on the books located in LA County and must tax at the 8.25% rate
- They could be profiting from 'sales tax' on out-of-state orders.

HTH
 
12BucksFor2Dozon said:
Was this comment supposed to add to the discussion?? I have never in my life as a blogger heard a sentence with less content then this one has.

C'mon, Bloomz...if you have something to say, say it coherently.
Click to expand...

I guess it went over your head.

I'll state it quite simply without sarcasm: Your statement was ridiculous.
Was that coherent enough for you?

Cathy explained it quite succintly to you, for the 20th time someone has tried.

I grow weary of hearing you over and over and over berate those of us who belong to wire services for the way we run our businesses, and explaining it to you over and over gets old. Many of us have been in the business way way longer than you have yet you're still going to tell us all how we should be doing it, all the while looking for a "better" job.

We're not looking for outside jobs, remember?

Now your silly remarks and abbreviations like OOA that we're supposed to figure out are real conherent to the rest of us too amigo. Not.

Here's a great suggestion for you - any time you feel the need to comment on how stupid we are for choosing wire services in our businesses, just use this :soapbox: - and save yourself all the typing cuz we've heard it enough to know exactly what you are going to say.



:iwuvyou: - no not that way, sort of like Jesus loves you but not that much, well not at all really, but I still wish you good luck on that job search.

opinions vary...

Happy Thanksgiving Blessings
 
David said:
The sender paid an additional 3.30 by skipping the local florist. How is the tax figured in CA?
The sender was looking for a local florist but was deceived by the search results on the web.
Click to expand...

How do we know that David? Could it be they just chose to shop in a more convenient store with higher prices?

I'm not justifying this, it's just that the task is for us to figure out where the target is and position ourselves there.
 
bloomz said:
How do we know that David? Could it be they just chose to shop in a more convenient store with higher prices?

I'm not justifying this, it's just that the task is for us to figure out where the target is and position ourselves there.
Click to expand...

Google search for "florist in Cambridge MA"

You'll see "Local Cambridge Florist" with "Same Day Cambridge Flower Delivery Family Owned For Over 90 Years!" in the sponsored link. That's the one; flowershopping.com same as 11flowers (one is the call center of the other according to FloristDetective).

They used to run the same ad in our town, too.
 
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