My opinion (my humble opinion)

[Rhonda]

I love this place and have since??? 2002?
I hate to denigrate anyone's design ability or lack thereof BUT (and I AM NOT perfect)
we've had some "applicants" lately that truly, truly, truly are NOT professional florists although they may think they are.. looking through some of the galleries......... I just sigh and my husband wonders why I'm so forlorn.........
just saying............. (anyone's "princess" can come up with $100)

 

[RWK]

You aren't the only one who thinks that the quality of new applicants just is not up to par. Professionalism has to still play a part. Proper training has to still play a part. That's why I have been trying to convince Ryan to RE-INSTATE an updated member application questionairre.

What we need to see from these applicants is the following information. - At least the way I see it.


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the introductory information needs to include the website, location, a brief statement or two about the applicant, whether or not they are a home based business, a brick and mortar business, the type of floral business.....retail shop, wholesaler, service provider, SEO/Internet service, floral magazine, wire service, event planner/shop, or another type of floral business, and what they feel they can bring to the table.

Now, for purposes of building/rebuilding a directory of members.......wire service affliations, floral credentials, and specialty might be nice information to have as well.


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[conchandler]

Quality of new applicants

Thanks, you two, I thought perhaps I was being a bit self-righteous, but I saw at least one new app and went "holy cow!!", obviously no professional training. I agree Quality needs to rank over Quantity on this board. Maybe Ryan thinks that as members of FC they can finally learn some things.

 

[hollyflr]

I agree with you, some of the descriptions do not define what I see as a professional florist, but I have also noticed the title description is as free member, this must be applicants in a trial period. I am wondering how many will pay the $100 when the time comes.

 

[master J]

I may catch some crap for this post but.......

Are you all saying those people don't have a right to try and learn something from FC?

I understand your concern and we wouldnt want FC to become completely all new members with no experience BUT I have no problem with newbies coming here, trying to learn something. I mean thats what this place is, right?

Sometimes those clueless newbies may come up with a great idea that we all can share....it is possible....

I used to be one of those people not too long ago! LOL FlowerChat helped me learn a lot over the years, maybe some of these new shops may end up being a force in the industry someday, you never know.

I'm just saying, let's give FC some time, to see what direction it takes....

I understand the concerns about new members, but wouldn't make too much fuss out of it just yet.

 

[Rhonda]

I just believe that people should get an education in their chosen field before venturing out. We've all spoken regarding BB's, especially those with no design sense (nor business sense) but there are some very good "home" florists who have had some structure.
I look for websites with pictures of their work (not saying that a WS affiliated site gives much insight into design skills either for applicants) but when I see work that just isn't up to par, it gives me pause. Do I pm them and suggest design school? A study of elements and principles of design because what I've seen is a complete lack of regard for those so important skills?
Yes we all have to start somewhere......you don't become a nurse without learning about structure of medicine... you don't become a secretary (Administrative Assistant now) without typing skills?
I guess, I'm looking for the information we used to get...... business .. how long in business... schooling or apprenticeships....websites...?
I understand pay to play and some perks that come with it but one of the things I did notice before paying membership is those who had no interest apparently in learning didn't return (or just lurked to read) and when I've revisited their websites showing their own designs, nothing had changed there.
Like the cheap wedding florist? I have her bookmarked (and the work hasn't changed in over 3 years, it's still the same, design poor). I guess we have to ask more questions (I've just looked at the intros as we don't really have input and haven't replied to many - maybe one or two)

 

[shannonlovesflowers]

I get flack all the time and have down right pissed off some people for being honest and saying some designers are better and some way better than others.

I do think though that it is great that so many want to learn and grow...

With that said- I hope they can take the heat when being critiqued. It's hard to hear hard comments about something you made that you think is great.

I applaud anybody who wants to learn more, do better and grow the industry- Just please keep in mind keeping and open mind will help you become a better designer.

 

[CHR]

I haven't looked at any of the photos but just wanna say at least the folks show what they really do.

When someone comes here and drops a link to a canned WS site, we really have NO idea what their work looks like.

We were all newbies once.

More later... I'm off to a basketball game.

 

[Flowerchatter03]

I also look at photos that are posted on newbies sites. One in particular kinda shocked me at the really bad designs that are actually posted on their website. I'll give them a thumbs up on having their own site, but it is hard to believe that they think their work is of a professional caliber.

I find that inexperienced people who "design" think their work is great until they learn otherwise.

 

[anytimeflowers]

I like to think that I am still progressing. I think back to the first days in this business, and absolutely shudder at what I thought was a good design. I think it is all in the attitude of the designer. I was a star at the "roundy-moundy, tussy-mussy, huggable-hump".

If I had not exposed myself to "new" design trends, I would still think those were just lovely. My hope is that I, as well as the rest of the newbies will take all of the opportunities available on this forum to grow.

That said, I wonder if there is some way to "vet" designs before they are published on the public gallery? Just a thought. If I were forced into recieving a critique on every design before it could either be publicly available OR NOT, it would cause me to look at it with a more discerning eye. I can guarantee that this forum has already had a HUGE impact on my designs. Just about everything I make now is made with a little more thought as to how it would look to another designer, so that little bit of extra tweak is made, where before, it may have gone out "as is".

 

[Rhonda]

I shall say, that although I have learned to design "for the camera".....what you see is what you get and your mind will have to include the back of the real picture. Is that not what we try to achieve? But in saying so, I need to also add that balance must be achieved whether one sided (by a picture) or percieved through pictured..

 

[Victoria]

Once someone pays their money, I don't think vetting is appropriate. I wonder though, should potential members be able to post in the gallery if they haven't signed up? Just a thought.

V

 

[Palms]

I am just pleased all those lurkers have gone, that has made my day.

The important thing to me is give and take so if someone new who cannot design very well but can market great may be a great asset to the board. I would imagine that someone who comes on and just asks all the time without giving would not get that much back anyway..

Having said that, i still maintain that i would not like a basement betty from my area paid or unpaid on the board. I would absolutely stop posting if that happend. Just sayin before everyone shoots me!!

 

[Palms]

I am just pleased all those lurkers have gone, that has made my day.

The important thing to me is give and take so if someone new who cannot design very well but can market great may be a great asset to the board. I would imagine that someone who comes on and just asks all the time without giving would not get that much back anyway..

Having said that, i still maintain that i would not like a basement betty from my area paid or unpaid on the board. I would absolutely stop posting if that happend. Just sayin before everyone shoots me!!

 

[theRKF]

Professionalism has to still play a part. Proper training has to still play a part. That's why I have been trying to convince Ryan to RE-INSTATE an updated member application questionairre.

And Ricky, I told you last week it was in place

I agree Quality needs to rank over Quantity on this board. Maybe Ryan thinks that as members of FC they can finally learn some things.

Yup quality does need to supersede quantity, but with an eye to bettering the industry. That might mean that we have to take some quality business people and encourage them to brush up on their design skills. Or, take some quality designers and help them to balance their books.

We all have areas to improve - that's why people visit FC in the first place.

Now, "needing improvement" doesn't equal "oh my, that's atrocious, what did you do to that poor flower?!?!" If someone is fumbling the most basic elements of design then FC probably isn't the place for them. Send them to CA to visit Phil's school for a while, and get some common sense edumacated into them

I agree with you, some of the descriptions do not define what I see as a professional florist, but I have also noticed the title description is as free member, this must be applicants in a trial period. I am wondering how many will pay the $100 when the time comes.

You're right - people can sign up, but if they aren't professionals - BBs or "princesses" for example - they likely won't be inclined to pay for membership. FC isn't as pretty or digestible as a trade mag that you can throw on a table to give yourself credibility. I don't imagine FC to be the first place a novice would venture.

I just believe that people should get an education in their chosen field before venturing out. We've all spoken regarding BB's, especially those with no design sense (nor business sense) but there are some very good "home" florists who have had some structure.
I look for websites with pictures of their work (not saying that a WS affiliated site gives much insight into design skills either for applicants) but when I see work that just isn't up to par, it gives me pause. Do I pm them and suggest design school? A study of elements and principles of design because what I've seen is a complete lack of regard for those so important skills?
Yes we all have to start somewhere......you don't become a nurse without learning about structure of medicine... you don't become a secretary (Administrative Assistant now) without typing skills?
I guess, I'm looking for the information we used to get...... business .. how long in business... schooling or apprenticeships....websites...?
I understand pay to play and some perks that come with it but one of the things I did notice before paying membership is those who had no interest apparently in learning didn't return (or just lurked to read) and when I've revisited their websites showing their own designs, nothing had changed there.

Agreed - basic skills are essential. FC isn't Flowers 101, it's where professionals get better.

I get flack all the time and have down right pissed off some people for being honest and saying some designers are better and some way better than others.

I do think though that it is great that so many want to learn and grow...

With that said- I hope they can take the heat when being critiqued. It's hard to hear hard comments about something you made that you think is great.

I applaud anybody who wants to learn more, do better and grow the industry- Just please keep in mind keeping and open mind will help you become a better designer.

Professionals know how to take critique from their peers, when it's given fairly. If the newbs don't like what they here (assuming we present it w/o malice) then they won't come back, won't pay for membership, and we'll have our answer

I haven't looked at any of the photos but just wanna say at least the folks show what they really do.

When someone comes here and drops a link to a canned WS site, we really have NO idea what their work looks like.

At least having a canned WS site means they are a WS member and therefore a real florist, right? Oh, wait ...

 

[Knife's Wife]

I believe the florist that is interested in doing better, in what ever way, will come here and stick around, and make improvements. A win win for all ! The crappy florist that think they are great already will not, or maybe just maybe they will realize that they will never make it and close their biz down and move on.

Either way this place was built for learning, those who want to learn will learn and those that do not learn, you do not have to be concerned with as they will not be your competition if you are running your biz like a pro.

All the design education in the world won't help some designers.

And some of us who have never taken a flower design course in their life can design circles around those that have. (I should know, I am one of those people who have learned solely from looking at design, seeing and feeling it) I have never taken a single course in flower design.

So, Phil if you ever want to give away a scholarship to your school I'll be there, because I would like to be great when I grow up! He He!


Joan

 

[lori042499]

I did take a look and cannot see what everyone is talking about. The gallery looks to be all of old members stuff. I didn't see anything offensive...maybe I am not looking in the right place...

I believe that once the membership became paid we really do not have the right to tell them they are not "professional" enough a designer to belong. Not everyone is a great designer, just like not everyone is a great boss, accountant, webmaster or marketer...Maybe some of these florists are better at those things that some of us are not great at....lets not make them feel that they don't belong, they are as much in the trenches as we are probably more so if their designs are subpar and are struggling after making a purchase that they may or may nt have had the proper experience for, I know how that feels but on the biz and marketing side of the fence...some days I feel that I should have taken a business course before opening but I didn't and now must tread water learning all the things myself by trail and error...

 

[BOSS]

just like not everyone is a great boss

Huh????

Say what??????????????

 

[duanermb]

Wow! Great thread people! NOT!

we've had some "applicants" lately that truly, truly, truly are NOT professional florists although they may think they are..

No one here, and I repeat NO ONE has the authority to decide/define what makes a professional florist a professional florist.

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[duanermb]

I rant some more...

we've had some "applicants" lately that truly, truly, truly are NOT professional florists although they may think they are..

I hope that I can still stay here, because I am certainly not a professional florist. And my wife and I are running a very successful flower shop though, with absolutely ZERO formal training on design, but through pure luck and chance, we are still here.

We even have repeat customers. Can you imagine that with no formal training, we could own a shop and send out arrangements? Can you imagine that our business grew through the recession and continues to grow?

Gee, there are even people here that have no formal business training that opened flower shops. How dare they! They are ruining the board with their lack of business sense!

Oh, wait, there are also florists here who don't have a good web presence. Don't they know that the internet is where it's at? Shame on them for joining this board!

And marketing! Some people here don't have a clue when it comes to marketing. I hope they don't steal my ideas.

I could go on but I hope you already get the picture.
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It is always the few that teach the many and I am glad that there are people here who need to learn. If you are part of a wire service, one day they may fill an order for you. If they are poor designers, thank god they are here to hear the rants about under filling and customer service and everything else. There is no place better for them to learn about design and the business of design and fulfillment.

Just seeking training of any kind and the will to learn is the first step in bettering ourselves. Last I checked, that's what this board is all about.

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