OGs, DOGs & HOGs

[kt4ye]

I’m writing this because there seem to be some rather loose definitions of an OG (Order Gatherer,) a DOG (Deceitful/Dishonest Order Gatherer) and HOG (Honest Order Gatherer.) What follows is MY definition.

As always, there is plenty of room for modification, alteration, addition or deletion!

• An OG is a floral business entity that intends to make all, or a substantial portion of its revenue by accepting orders that will be transferred to a florist for fulfillment.
• A DOG is an OG that exhibits One or More of the following characteristics:

1. The OG actively solicits orders outside its geographical location by means of LOCAL Telephone Directory ads, LOCAL media including Radio and Television, LOCAL Newspaper or other print media
2. The OG, via Pay-Per-Click or other sponsored Internet advertising uses techniques to ensure that the OG’s ad or website appears when a prospective customer searches for terms such as “Florist in Denver,” “Flowers in Sacramento,” etc.
3. The OG obtains multiple URLs or Company names that deceptively describe the company’s location. Examples might include, “sacramentoflowers.com,” or “Joe’s Sacramento Florist.”
4. The OG publishes, without the florist’s permission, a list of florists in various cities that are supposed to be examples of their “preferred” or “special” network of florists.
5. The OG “cloaks” the physical location of his facility such that it is difficult or impossible for a customer to determine the OG’s actual location.
6. The OG “includes” the delivery charge in the price of the product, does not inform the customer that the prices include delivery, does not tell the customer the value of the delivery charge, and adds an additional Service charge to the price.
7. The OG “skims” the order by not forwarding the entire amount that the customer paid for the product and delivery to the fulfilling florist.

• A HOG is an OG that does NONE of the above.

Almost certainly, I have left out someone’s “pet peeve.” Also, since DOGs are VERY creative, I expect that there will be as-yet-un-thought-of “scams” that someone will come up with.

Bill

 

[Dorothy]

I agree with everything you said, except for HOGS. There is no such thing, IMO. Sugar-coating an OG does nothing for the Real Florist.

 

[Dorothy]

Should've added: Even if the HOG is a Real Florist.

 

[bloomz]

Sorry you don't like me Dorothy - I'm proud to be a HOG and have been told I taste just fine with some sugar coating.

But you're wrong. There absolutely is such a thing.

Many many many florists want honestly gathered orders - probably 98% of them, enough to say almost all of them.

Including me.

but probably 90% of those really don't care how they are gathered. They just want and need orders.

So they do do things for real florists - they get them orders.

How many real florists do you know that are good marketers?

I think I know of maybe a couple dozen. 100 would be pushing it.

So that leaves about 19,900 more - that just want orders.

My friend in Portland today has 100 deliveries yet to do - he said most of them are $30.01 FYF orders, and we are good friends who talk daily - Portland's a big city and they are having to use snow chains to deliver these as they are all frozen up.

Why does he do them?

Beats me, but he's been in the biz way longer than I have.

And smarter florists than me do the same thing, so.....

I want more orders. I want any order that hasn't been skimmed.

I guess

opinions vary

 

[Dorothy]

IMHO...nothing wrong with servicing your customers...however close or far away they are. Good Marketing is Good Marketing. What I have trouble with is rationalizing greediness at the expense of others who are truly in this crazy occupation to actually make a living from it and feed their families (ie. the ones putting in the real costs and labor).

I didn't say I didn't like you, Jon (that's your Real name right?). I don't know where you got that from.... I'm just saying for those who are there to make a buck at someone else's expense, then, man, we as a human race have got a huge hole to climb back out of when things don't go according to the way they were planned.

Maybe I'm thinking that HOGS are a totally different breed. Please enlighten me further if I have it wrong.

 

[LJVF]

I’m writing this because there seem to be some rather loose definitions of an OG (Order Gatherer,) a DOG (Deceitful/Dishonest Order Gatherer) and HOG (Honest Order Gatherer.) What follows is MY definition.

As always, there is plenty of room for modification, alteration, addition or deletion!

• An OG is a floral business entity that intends to make all, or a substantial portion of its revenue by accepting orders that will be transferred to a florist for fulfillment.
• A DOG is an OG that exhibits One or More of the following characteristics:

1. The OG actively solicits orders outside its geographical location by means of LOCAL Telephone Directory ads, LOCAL media including Radio and Television, LOCAL Newspaper or other print media
2. The OG, via Pay-Per-Click or other sponsored Internet advertising uses techniques to ensure that the OG’s ad or website appears when a prospective customer searches for terms such as “Florist in Denver,” “Flowers in Sacramento,” etc.
3. The OG obtains multiple URLs or Company names that deceptively describe the company’s location. Examples might include, “sacramentoflowers.com,” or “Joe’s Sacramento Florist.”
4. The OG publishes, without the florist’s permission, a list of florists in various cities that are supposed to be examples of their “preferred” or “special” network of florists.
5. The OG “cloaks” the physical location of his facility such that it is difficult or impossible for a customer to determine the OG’s actual location.
6. The OG “includes” the delivery charge in the price of the product, does not inform the customer that the prices include delivery, does not tell the customer the value of the delivery charge, and adds an additional Service charge to the price.
7. The OG “skims” the order by not forwarding the entire amount that the customer paid for the product and delivery to the fulfilling florist.

• A HOG is an OG that does NONE of the above.

Almost certainly, I have left out someone’s “pet peeve.” Also, since DOGs are VERY creative, I expect that there will be as-yet-un-thought-of “scams” that someone will come up with.

Bill

Pretty good definition.

But I would be willing to bet that #'s 6 & 7 would define over 50% of local florists to be "dOGS" too.

The fact is that I receive wire in's everyday from local florists who only send me the price of the arrangement and not the "delivery" fee. The proof can be found in their websites. Even some right here at FC. Just sayin.

 

[CHR]

In the spirit of the holiday and Peace on Earth and good will toward men (and women), can we postpone this debate until the 26th or later?

No time to search, but I believe definitions have been proffered in both the distant and the not-too-distant past.

As gentlemen & women we can agree to disagree and respect each other - which ever way we feel strongly on this topic.

I will go out on a limb and say that the dude dealing with snow chains to deliver $30.01 orders today was probably seeing visions of negative dollars dancing in his head. The COD (cost of delivery) probably exceeded the COGs.

 

[bloomz]

I think he's perhaps seeing intangibles we aren't seeing, and they do exist.

But he, his wife and his Father are out in the dark right now doing the deliveries, so payroll in less than minimal, as in, zero.


I also think he's nuts.

But - smarter florists than me welcome incoming orders, so.....?

What does this have to do with Peace and Good Will?

Dorothy - more later tonite - gotta go open some presents then get my suitcases packed.

 

[MANORVILLE]

Jon,
Me thinks it has to do with specializing the moment, for tomorrow we can once again access the battleground ! Tonight we seek love, the family atmosphere and unity.

Merry Christmas to all !


Kevin

 

[CHR]

But he, his wife and his Father are out in the dark right now doing the deliveries, so payroll in less than minimal, as in, zero.

And that's why florists can work really hard and show zero for our efforts - 'cuz someone else will work for nothing and we, as a group, generally don't value our own time.

Nothing like answering a doorbell in the dark to see a $20 arr. delivered late on Christmas Eve. And if no one is home?

No doubt, it's better to deliver them late than not at all. (Thank goodness FU isn't FTD or that shop might be sending them $60.02 cash for each non-delivery on Friday).

Stuff to ponder.....

 

[Dazeal]

Whoever coined the saying 'OG' did a bad job branding it. I hoped that when I came up with dOG, it put those who deceive people, in their own evil category.

Bill there are only two types out there.. OGs and dOGs. If you read your 1-7 definitions, they all deceive or lay on the edge of deceit. So, in reality, all those OGs you are defining, are dOGs. This doesn't have to be that difficult.

We are all OGs and there is nothing wrong with gathering orders. I am proud to be an OG. You don't gather orders? How are you still in business?

JB's site gathers orders and he sends them out to another state. AT the bottom of his page or in the about, it says he is from Corvallis Oregon. The customer can read this and probably knows this. They like his service and boy like charm. lol JB does not deceive, but is a brilliant OG who beat most of us here to the punch 10 years ago by building up his website.

If you aren't OGing, you aren't evolving. - I used tp put, I am a proud member of the bbrooks network and can fill your orders through the US with other hand picked high end florists. Does this make me a bad guy? I wish I was a better OG, I'll keep working on it. I encourage all of you to offer a special service to a customer on the internet. Unlike traditional business, the internet expands outside your backyard, evolve.

Whoever came up with the word HOGs, did us a disservice.. lol who wants to do something good and then be called a HOG.

99% of you will disagree with me, but to me OGs = good - dOGs = bad - black or white... no gray. You either lie or tell the truth. White lie still equals a lie.

-sorry Cathy, you know I just love you in a floral smart wisdom type way, but I just had to.

 

[bloomz]

What I have trouble with is rationalizing greediness at the expense of others who are truly in this crazy occupation to actually make a living from it and feed their families (ie. the ones putting in the real costs and labor).

I'm just saying for those who are there to make a buck at someone else's expense, then, man, we as a human race have got a huge hole to climb back out of when things don't go according to the way they were planned.

and I'm just saying baloney to all that stuff.

It's called commission sales, is far from exclusive to our industry (heck what are car dealers? or dealers of any other product manufactured by someone else for that matter)

Sales make the whole world go round, most florists are dismal at getting their own sales, especally in this internet world, customers less and less want to call after hours and get an answering machine or (attempt to) order thru a brochure site, and opt for convenience.

How many of those 20,000 florists even have after hours telephone answering?

OG's put the efforts into the sales channel the the fillers don't. Whose fault is that? Is that greedy?

Not even, it's simply smart.

It's a profitable part of my business and I take exception to the statement that it is 1, greedy or 2, taking advantage of someone else. "At the expense" of someone else? Perhaps they are making money at my expense since I put the time effort and money into the sales channels that they didn't. Or just perhaps it is a copasetic or symbiotic relationship.

Of, or relating to symbiosis; living together; Of a relationship with mutual benefit between two individuals or organisms

symbiosis - the relation between two different species of organisms that are interdependent; each gains benefits from the other

hmmmm - I'll take symbiotic for $200, Alex.

Ponder that one if you would.:bouncy:

And that's why florists can work really hard and show zero for our efforts - 'cuz someone else will work for nothing and we, as a group, generally don't value our own time.

Nothing like answering a doorbell in the dark to see a $20 arr. delivered late on Christmas Eve. And if no one is home?

No doubt, it's better to deliver them late than not at all. (Thank goodness FU isn't FTD or that shop might be sending them $60.02 cash for each non-delivery on Friday).

Stuff to ponder.....

Didn't I say twice I think he is nuts?

But so what? It's his choice to run his business this way, and he is happy doing it. He's paying the rent, taking home a paycheck and paying his employees and suppliers, so...

You and I don't/can't/won't see the intangibles that drive him.

And once more I'll say, many smarter florists than me welcome incoming orders.....including our consultant who says we should too

Which makes me go hmmmm....

Somebody's full of crap.

I'm afraid it could very well be me and you.

and Dorothy.

Rock on.

 

[bloomz]

I asked my friend today - he was out til 8 last night delivering and he refused the $30.01 orders - even tho he said they only had $4 cost of flowers in them. He asked for price changes to $35 plus delivery, so they found somebody else apparently, except for the one he refused he said that the exact order came back as a TF.com order about 2 hours later for $45.

So he's not quite as nuts as I thought he is.....

 

[BOSS]

And once more I'll say, many smarter florists than me welcome incoming orders.....including our consultant who says we should too

Which makes me go hmmmm....

Somebody's full of crap.

I'm afraid it could very well be me and you.

Does he work for the crack man?

I won't argue that all incoming orders are bad, but more and more I'm seeing that for the general long-term health of the industry as a whole, wire services are bad!

Based on the head aches wire outs created this last 3 weeks, they are quickly becoming a liability to my peace of mind. And I tend to eliminate liabilities that interfere with my quiet, peaceful days.

 

[bloomz]

He11, customers do that to me...

 

[kt4ye]

Whoever coined the saying 'OG' did a bad job branding it. I hoped that when I came up with dOG, it put those who deceive people, in their own evil category.

Bill there are only two types out there.. OGs and dOGs. If you read your 1-7 definitions, they all deceive or lay on the edge of deceit. So, in reality, all those OGs you are defining, are dOGs. This doesn't have to be that difficult.

It is often a good idea to READ a post before you critique it.

When you re-read my post, you will see that 1-7 ARE MY DEFINITIONS OF A DOG.

#SIGH#

Bill

 

[Dazeal]

Sorry I read your post wrong Billy. I must of missed your point of irony about why people them OGs, when they are deceitfulOGs.

Now that we agree, let's call a spade a spade and in this instance, a dOG a dOG and quit making it sound like order gathering is bad, because if we didn't gather orders as florists, we'd be out of business.

And do it like this: /sigh - It's old school commands for a M.U.D. or a M.O.O that would emote the emotion. So if you were to type /sigh and press enter, the screen would say Bill signs. - Just ignore me, I'm a nerd.

 

[bloomz]

For the nth time - everyone with a telephone and/or an 800# gathers orders.

Everybody's got different lines in the sand of what they approve of, or don't, and should anyone really give half a shiit what others lines are?

 

[Connie]

OG? Guilty! And hoping to become a better one! I have to be an OG because I have regular on-line customers who order from my website, but the delivery can be for any place in the country.

Any florist, website or not, who does not offer the filling florist the full amount for the arrangement and delivery is a DDOG, dirty dog order gatherer. That is purely and simply disgusting and dishonest. IMHO, not so H any more.

 

[Dazeal]

Good for you Connie! You are not being deceitful, so why is it so bad to OG? It's called evolving.. and you're doing it right! Don't feel guilty cause these guys are jealous. They'd of done the same thing if it would of happen to them.

I think JB's sand line drawing is an AWESOME analogy.. you old timers need to see the lines aren't in your physical delivery area... there is something out there called the internet changing the rules of business.

Evolve or die.

p.s. I see the irony of saying 'old timers' when JB is like 140 and probably the best in the business of OGing.