Order Gatherer Customer Alerts

[Rhonda]

Sir, I do not gather orders to send out of town just to make a sale with extraneous charges to do so and gather a rebate. I specifically state what areas I deliver to. I do not advocate the prospect of sending out of my area by my website. In the other way, I do not accept an order that is sent undervalue. If I attempted to fill an undervalued order, who would be underserved? The recepient, the sender, and myself because I took over a 27% + hit to fill that order to value.

It is much easier to say no...and if they find someone here to fill their order other than me...good luck.

You certainly have not ever lived in a small town environment (which is where the WS seem to over fill the areas, maybe because the small town florist will think it's a good thing to pay the fees every month and fill those orders to value when they're only receiving less than 73% for doing and delivering them) to which I say DOH?

 

[inferno63]

Inferno,

Trust me, I would never suggest that you not act as an advocate for your customer first and foremost.....however.

In the case of your fulfilling an incoming wire order is the sending member not actually your customer?

After all, they are the one who originally generated the order and who in turn selected you to fulfill it. They place an order with you, you fill and deliver it, and in turn you are paid for it. Does that not make them the customer in this transaction?

Again I would suggest that if you have principles stick by them and refuse the order rather than accept it and attempt to discredit the sending member in any way, shape or form. The fact remains that as sending members we all place our trust in the fulfilling shop to look after our interests at the point of delivery, not to intentionally undermine the way we do business.

By the way just for the record, I personally consider any flower shop with a website an Order Gatherer. There are simply varying degrees of success.

I think that the originator of the order is the consumer. They initialize the transaction and are the sender to the receiver. The OG and WS are the middlemen. With that said, I do not fill any of their orders over the wire because I am WS free. I extend a great deal of respect to other FLORISTS that call and ask me to fill for their customers. I consider them my peers in the industry. Other than brick and mortar florists that are in my area, they are not competing against me for the same market. Disclaimer, I am lucky to have respectful relationships with florists in my area also. The WS and OGs exploit the industry and I consider them my competition. And I absolutely will compete against the other team.....yes sir ree bob I will!

If you consider any florist with a website an order gatherer then it is safe to say that any ecommerce site is an order gatherer no matter what they sell....be it oranges or diamonds. That broad sense of the term is not within the context as it is used in these threads, at least as I have observed anyway.

 

[inferno63]

I would have to agree with Doug on this one also, but the consumer needs to be educated one way or another.

One should use those orders to market themselves, but negatively promoting against anything is always dangerous.

I would like to see a retail florist website put up by someone that positively promotes finding a local florist. I have grown to believe that stating "real" and using other terms that imply there are "non-real" entities out there is not the way to go. I am guilty of it myself.

Promoting the "Local Retail Florist" would be the way to go in my opinion. Focusing on our positives, rather than the uncontrolled negatives of the industry is win win.

We are usually on the same page but I have to disagree with you this time.

What you imply is negative, I call comparison shopping. I am not name calling or hitting below the belt. I don't say to my customers "That nasty FTD and Proflowers f**ks rip you off!" Do you think that when Pepsi conducted taste tests against Coke that is was negative? In my marketing material to my consumers I give them a taste of what a WS or OG has to offer and compare it to what I have to offer on the basis of price, quality, and service. McDonalds and Burger King have been doing this for years! Doesn't look like Ronald is hurting for it. No blood, no foul......just meat and potatoes competition.

 

[Miss Molly]

I have thought of doing this also, but didn't know what I was going to really gain from it. It could confuse some people, just word it right.

 

[duanermb]

Quite frankly I am amazed that any flower shop would accept an order then promptly and publicly trash the individual (sending shop, website, or or order gatherer) that sent them the order.

It's absolutely no wonder that the flower industry is suffering, what impression does this leave with the consumer (both the sender and recipient).

Let's all try to keep in mind that these flowers were originally sent to someone as a gift. They are not your opportunity to make a political statement about your thoughts about the injustices in the flower industry.

If you truly believe in your convictions, simply refuse the order rather than alienating another consumer from purchasing flowers. We have enough ways already to do that as an industry ranging from poor quality product, substitutions, poorly trained operators, and high prices.

As an industry how many times can we shoot ourselves in the foot and still survive.

While I still agree with you here...

Inferno,

Trust me, I would never suggest that you not act as an advocate for your customer first and foremost.....however.

In the case of your fulfilling an incoming wire order is the sending member not actually your customer?

After all, they are the one who originally generated the order and who in turn selected you to fulfill it. They place an order with you, you fill and deliver it, and in turn you are paid for it. Does that not make them the customer in this transaction?

Again I would suggest that if you have principles stick by them and refuse the order rather than accept it and attempt to discredit the sending member in any way, shape or form. The fact remains that as sending members we all place our trust in the fulfilling shop to look after our interests at the point of delivery, not to intentionally undermine the way we do business.

By the way just for the record, I personally consider any flower shop with a website an Order Gatherer. There are simply varying degrees of success.

Let me go over the top here...

If this group of FlowerChatters, or someone else in the industry, doesn't come up with a good solution to this issue, I may just end up like some others here, and give up.

What that means, is that I am going to set up web pages in every city in Canada and the US, and all of them will say "(Insert city here) Florist" and "Flowers by your best (Insert city here) Florist"

Perhaps I could target a few cities very well, and get the top 5 spots on Google and get, maybe 50% of that cities orders, skim off 20% and send the orders to actual shops with less $ than if they would have been in the top 5 for themselves? (And perhaps even become a prominent community member and win awards oke

The ones that state prominently "flowers delivered by", or "our member florists deliver" are just fine in my opinion. Those sites are in the spirit of the web.

We are really talking about the dOGs here. People in Arkansas have ordered flowers from our site, to be delivered in Arkansas. It says, Winnipeg Florist all over the site. Yes, we are ALL OGs. (No, I am not targeting Arkansas. I know you guys are already searching! ) Maybe there is a Winnipeg in Arkansas, I don't know.

The BS that goes on in the florist business online wouldn't last 5 minutes outside of cyberspace. One day ethics will find their way onto the net, and into this business, but not yet. I have time to wait.

In the mean time, I will complain some, and do as much as I can to get them out of our SERPs.

I put a great deal of time and effort into SEO, using (AFAIK) white hat techniques only (perhaps some controversial Grey hat). It pisses me off to no end when orders are stolen by dOGs. (Beating out the other OGs - failing there is my fault)

_____________________________________________________________

The OG thing out of the way, I am curious about the customer / filler comment. I don't exactly know how it works, so can someone help me follow the money?

Customer - OG - 1800TFTD - Filling Florist ?

or Customer - 1800FTD - Filling Florist ?


Doug does make a good point either way. You are filling the order, per your contract with the WS in this case, not the customer, or the order gatherer.

An interesting new opinion that leaves only one option. Be in the WS on their terms, or out. (I think we have established that they are on their own agenda and won't change their ways)

 

[duanermb]

We are usually on the same page but I have to disagree with you this time.

What you imply is negative, I call comparison shopping. I am not name calling or hitting below the belt. I don't say to my customers "That nasty FTD and Proflowers f**ks rip you off!" Do you think that when Pepsi conducted taste tests against Coke that is was negative? In my marketing material to my consumers I give them a taste of what a WS or OG has to offer and compare it to what I have to offer on the basis of price, quality, and service. McDonalds and Burger King have been doing this for years! Doesn't look like Ronald is hurting for it. No blood, no foul......just meat and potatoes competition.

I guess it had to happen some time!

Good points. My concern with it, as someone else stated, is that it is hitting an unsuspecting gift receiver, not the sender. That is all, really.

 

[Dorothy]

The BS that goes on in the florist business online wouldn't last 5 minutes outside of cyberspace. One day ethics will find their way onto the net, and into this business, but not yet. I have time to wait.

.....Ahmen....

 

[inferno63]

Duane, I consider anyone who is directly competing in my marketing area is competition whether they disclaim "member florist" or "serving" or whatever. If you are in my area selling flowers I am going to compete against you. On my marketing materials I don't make side by side comparisons against other b & b florists in my area. In that respect, I compete with my design, web, involvement in the community, referrals, and creative marketing. That is enough. With OGs, DOGs, and WS I have to compete with them differently because their business model is different. You make some good points but I am in this to win it. I have toned down a bit and realized fully that I can't take on the monster NATIONALLY but I believe I can take them on LOCALLY and I will.

 

[duanermb]

Duane, I consider anyone who is directly competing in my marketing area is competition whether they disclaim "member florist" or "serving" or whatever. If you are in my area selling flowers I am going to compete against you. On my marketing materials I don't make side by side comparisons against other b & b florists in my area. In that respect, I compete with my design, web, involvement in the community, referrals, and creative marketing. That is enough. With OGs, DOGs, and WS I have to compete with them differently because their business model is different. You make some good points but I am in this to win it. I have toned down a bit and realized fully that I can't take on the monster NATIONALLY but I believe I can take them on LOCALLY and I will.

Agreed, me too. It is still a personal mission of mine to eliminate HOGs as we call them from the serps too. It's tough, but I have time!

It seems online, that what used to be my FIRST goal, which was to beat our local competitors has become my last goal. I try to help them where I can. (But not too much!)

 

[inferno63]

Duane,

You know that I am onboard with your goals and will do what I can to help. It is a big task and I hope you find a solution. You will be a big hero to a lot of people. Press on!

Susan

 

[Doug Munro]

What's really interesting about this thread...

In reading some of the comments on this board about the pros's and con's of order gathering and direct shippers I got to thinking.....

The reality is that whether you like it or not OG's and direct shippers are here to stay, the internet is here to stay, and last but not least business is not always fair. The bottom line in business is generally that those that adapt to changes in the market place tend to have a better chance of surviving long term than those that become indignant about the changes and cling to "what used to be or should be".

The individual florist can complain all they want about order gatherers or direct shippers, but in both cases individuals found a niche in the market and filled it, and in some cases did so very well and with great financial success (e.g. 1-800 Flowers, Proflowers). Usually in business people that do this are praised by their peers, and actually looked up to as being savvy business people. However in the flower industry the vast majority of people would prefer to tear these companies down with accusations of "not playing fair".

It's a strange business we choose to make our living in....

 

[Rhonda]

since you seem to be located in a great many areas (google searches in the past) and you seem to like to type to see yourself in print....
Mr. Munro, I'm not going to read your posts or respond any more because you are basically in kind with those I detest.
I'll continue to educate both the recipients and the senders when possible (OG, DOG's etc, love to hold that info hostage for good reason- theirs) in a tactful way....and hope to survive by being honest, providing quality and great customer service, something OGs and their ilk can't seem to quantify (well, maybe except for some really honest OGs)
Nite!:spintongu

 

[bloomz]

Opinions vary...

I find Doug's posts quite astute, intelligent, and spot on, lacking the irrational passion I so often read up in here.

The "it's not fair" mentality. What I've been taught is "Fair" is something that happens in the summertime with all the pigs and chickens and stuff.

Grower Direct is a large chain in Canada - of course they have many locations.

 

[Rock]

The reality is that whether you like it or not OG's and direct shippers are here to stay, the internet is here to stay, and last but not least business is not always fair. The bottom line in business is generally that those that adapt to changes in the market place tend to have a better chance of surviving long term than those that become indignant about the changes and cling to "what used to be or should be".

Change is always ongoing; we adapted by dumping the WS and making more money. Got tired of FORWARDING FTD and Loblows garbage (and other's lowball orders) to Domestic retrans.

The individual florist can complain all they want about order gatherers or direct shippers, but in both cases individuals found a niche in the market and filled it, and in some cases did so very well and with great financial success (e.g. 1-800 Flowers, Proflowers). Usually in business people that do this are praised by their peers, and actually looked up to as being savvy business people. However in the flower industry the vast majority of people would prefer to tear these companies down with accusations of "not playing fair".

Doug, the great financial success isn't always a result of honest dealings; sometimes OG's skim orders or if they don't they're out competing with other OG's trying to cut each others throat, gathering undervalued orders that THEY expect some poor unsuspecting florist to lose money on (or cut corners on)... see the problem???


One of the biggest problem with OG orders....

On Monday I received a call from a Canadian OG, FLORAWORLD. They asked if I was FTD (NOT) and told me they had a credit card order going to a nearby town (with an FTD member between us and the recipient, hmmmm???). Value was 74.00 including delivery (not sure what they planned on doing about the taxes).

The order was for a vase of snaps, roses etc. I asked if it was on their website. It was - C50-3082, an old FTD item that they were selling for 62.00, 72.00, 82.00 +service charge 9.95 + delivery charge 11.95. I told her that I would check on the contents and call back.

I found it in a 5 year old FTD workbook and priced the basic arrangement at 78.00 + del. I called back and asked what they customer choose, the 62.00 or 72.00 or 82.00 and was told it was a fill to value. Told her that we don’t do fill to value, especially since the consumer didn’t choose "fill to value" but a specific arrangement. She refused to tell me which their customer chose and after asking her three times I refused the order.

I guess she called the FTD member first and couldn't get it filled, so I guess it probably remains unfilled.

Why is it ok for a consumer to pick out a specific arrangement from a website of an Order gatherer and have that OG give it to a shop to fill as "fill to value" ? What do you think Doug ???

I guess many shops would have filled the order without question but not this time (or the next time either).

Not knowing which of 3 prices a customer chose means very likely a 'value' complaint. The OG will blame the filling shop for the problem and of course cause a 'black mark' against that shop in that consumer's mind.

I don't need this crap; this is why I fired the WS.

​

@#$%^ SUB PRIME ORDERS​

​

​

 

[bloomz]

I'm totally with Rock here - "Fill to value", unless it is designer choice, is a trap when it comes to a recipe arrangement from a selection guide.

It's not OK Rockster.

 

[lori042499]

I think that Doug's point is that we as the filling florists have a choice, we can fill them and accept our lot in life or we can reject them and move on...Not everyone in biz is going to be ethical, nor is evryone going to be fair..it's just how the cookie crumbles...some businesses are harder than others that's just how it goes...

Mosts florists are just mad because 20 years ago we had the world by the you know what's and could tell a customer what they had to spend to get what they wanted and had to pay no mind to what they really wanted to spend...now they have choices, someone gave them choices..lower price choices..and now the interent and better shipping gave them lots of choices for gifting...So the "if you don't like my prices thjen shop somewhere else attitude"just doesn't fly anymore...

Some og's are deceptive not all, but some regular flowers shops are deceptive...your orders could be getting skimmed by mom and pop shop by 20% so that they can make money on the order, so its not just og's your local florist can be just as bad....some of your locals also pay no mind to what was ordered and just fill any old thing and hope they don't get a complaint...this sucks equally...not fair but what do you do, tell your customers that "Oh I'll take your order but I cannot garauntee that it will look anything like the picture because florists suck" Basically that is what these notes say about florists the consumers have no idea what the heck and og is, nor do they care until they have been burned by one....

 

[Rock]

Some og's are deceptive not all, but some regular flowers shops are deceptive...your orders could be getting skimmed by mom and pop shop by 20% so that they can make money on the order, so its not just og's your local florist can be just as bad....some of your locals also pay no mind to what was ordered and just fill any old thing and hope they don't get a complaint...this sucks equally...not fair but what do you do, tell your customers that "Oh I'll take your order but I cannot garauntee that it will look anything like the picture because florists suck" Basically that is what these notes say about florists the consumers have no idea what the heck and og is, nor do they care until they have been burned by one....

Lori, you're correct; not all OG's suck (they have to work at it!) and some florists also suck (actually quite a few and probably most aren't really florists just someone who assembles flowers, or if you like 'pokes flowers in a vase'). It's difficult to sort the wheat from the chafe but you have to do the best you can.

When you know that a OG 'claims' that they are at '123 Water Street, your town' (especially when you're 3000 kms from water!) then you already know they are deceptive or when their customer chooses an arrangement from a selection of pics and the OG says 'hey just fill to value' then you know THEY SUCK!

On the other hand a florist who accepts a completely legitimate order but doesn't have the flowers and sends whatever they have left in the cooler or takes out the 20% etc ALSO SUCKS!

It's really VERY simple......

IF YOU (FLORIST OR OG) CANNOT DELIVER WHAT YOU PROMISE THEN @#$%^&* SAY SO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lori042499]

Lori, you're correct; not all OG's suck (they have to work at it!) and some florists also suck (actually quite a few and probably most aren't really florists just someone who assembles flowers, or if you like 'pokes flowers in a vase'). It's difficult to sort the wheat from the chafe but you have to do the best you can.

When you know that a OG 'claims' that they are at '123 Water Street, your town' (especially when you're 3000 kms from water!) then you already know they are deceptive or when their customer chooses an arrangement from a selection of pics and the OG says 'hey just fill to value' then you know THEY SUCK!

On the other hand a florist who accepts a completely legitimate order but doesn't have the flowers and sends whatever they have left in the cooler or takes out the 20% etc ALSO SUCKS!

It's really VERY simple......

IF YOU (FLORIST OR OG) CANNOT DELIVER WHAT YOU PROMISE THEN @#$%^&* SAY SO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The point is that the consumers don't care how you or I feel about these companies, they don't live it...It leaves us with two options know the companies that suck and not accept their orders or not send them repeat orders or accept the orders and deal with what comes internally and suck it up or learn from it...

Why do we need to bother our customers with our industries dirty laundry and make them think we are all like that..its just so sour grapes sounding. I do think people need t be educated as to why your local florist is better than online, but you can only educate those willing to listen and we all know most people don't care until they have been burned and made to care...

 

[inferno63]

Here's the thing about "fairness". In many states in the U.S., including the great state of Ohio, there exists laws on the books regulating "fairness" to protect the consumer. If OGs and WS operate within the same laws as I do, then bring it on. I have a vendor's license and pay taxes, sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, self-employment tax....Ohio licensing fees, etc. and if they operate in Ohio then they should also! I WILL compete "fairly" and that includes reporting the illegal "competition" to the Ohio Attorney General's Office on a regular bases. I have the complaint form bookmarked and it is used often. Eventually my scream will be heard.

Now Doug obviously isn't up on his reading on FC on he would have been directed to the articles and stats aboard this train that show that it is a very realistic possibility that the OGs and WS has begun some downward spirals. They are on the tip of the fall. I see that they are revamping their business models to start drop-shipping more and using real florists less. That is in response to having fewer members to do their dirty deeds. The laws of supply and demand and the free market will take care of the drop ship problem to me, I am absolutely certain of it. That will require some big meetings in the WS conference rooms to yet come up with another way to keep getting a paycheck.

So as time goes on, the WS will have less and less membership (we all agree on this) and drop-ship will kick em in the bootie. What's left? Create new ways to get revenue from the members they DO HAVE.

All aboard.......your train is leaving the station.

 

[lori042499]

Here's the thing about "fairness". In many states in the U.S., including the great state of Ohio, there exists laws on the books regulating "fairness" to protect the consumer. If OGs and WS operate within the same laws as I do, then bring it on. I have a vendor's license and pay taxes, sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, self-employment tax....Ohio licensing fees, etc. and if they operate in Ohio then they should also! I WILL compete "fairly" and that includes reporting the illegal "competition" to the Ohio Attorney General's Office on a regular bases. I have the complaint form bookmarked and it is used often. Eventually my scream will be heard.

Now Doug obviously isn't up on his reading on FC on he would have been directed to the articles and stats aboard this train that show that it is a very realistic possibility that the OGs and WS has begun some downward spirals. They are on the tip of the fall. I see that they are revamping their business models to start drop-shipping more and using real florists less. That is in response to having fewer members to do their dirty deeds. The laws of supply and demand and the free market will take care of the drop ship problem to me, I am absolutely certain of it. That will require some big meetings in the WS conference rooms to yet come up with another way to keep getting a paycheck.

So as time goes on, the WS will have less and less membership (we all agree on this) and drop-ship will kick em in the bootie. What's left? Create new ways to get revenue from the members they DO HAVE.

All aboard.......your train is leaving the station.

I am not saying that you shouldn't report businesses that do business inappropriately...just don't involve your customers to get involved...

It's like asking your cousin to beat up your boyfriend because he did you wrong...no one wins in that case....

Take on any entity that you want in court or where ever, but sending out letters to your recipients making them feel bad that their friend got ripped off for buying them flowers just isn't right any way you look at it..I should feel good recieiving flowers and my friend should feel good about sending them and that is where the story should end for the sender and the consumer, unless of course the sender has a problem with what they bought, until then it is amoot point they bought from who the bought from and thats that...if you filled the order know it was from a dOG, you risk the complaint knowing that the company you deal with could be skimming and instead of just rejecting the order you put on a flyer that tells them that if their friend hadn't used this bad company they may have paid less and gotten better flowers...geesh maybe I should have used Geico!!!


This matter shouldn't even apply to you because you are wire service free..