Order Gatherers Don't Get It!

ROBSWF

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2004
430
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Indianapolis
www.oberers.com
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Indiana
Technology has made it simple for anyone, everywhere to become an order gatherer. Heck, all you need is enough money, some deceptive key words, a membership in a wire service and wa-la you'll get orders and WELCOME to ORDER GATHERING.

Our industry leaders are encouraging many to become order gatherers. Their words are not easily interperted, and I believe that is by design. Not necessarily because they think you'll be successful gathering orders, they just think we should do what everyone else is doing.

Does that even sit well with you? Didn't our Mom's tell us not to do something just because everyone else was? What the heck is wrong with this line of thinking?

This is why I think order gatherers DON'T get it, and for that matter our industry leaders don't get it either!

More important than gathering an order is GAINING a customer.

You can't do both the way they are mapping things out!

Why?

Because just gathering orders is too expensive and does not create loyalty on its own merit.

You attract SHOPPERS through what product you are offering that may interest them. You GAIN a CUSTOMER by proving to them YOUR business has VALUE over others.

Order gatherers can only EVER do one thing (attract shoppers), and NEVER does the most important (create loyalty through actually delivering the item as pictured and as promised) and YOU CAN'T deliver the item that they PROMISED every time either!!

Chasing somebody else's order is PROBLEMATIC from the starting gate. Since it's NOT your customer, NOT your picture and NOT your promise, your setting yourself up for disaster because most important the order you'll be delivering is NOT your identity!

Order gatherers have hundreds of pictures on their sites, heck the same gatherers may even have dozens of other sites under other business trade names.

They do this because they are burning through what they thought were customers. But they are NOT customers they were only shoppers!!!

They don't VALUE their identity, they'll simply change their name, but you CAN'T!! You'll just go out of business.

They don't operate with the same PRIDE of OWNERSHIP that you do! Their name isn't on enclosure cards, wrapping paper, business cards, store fronts and delivery vehicles.

Your name is on all of that stuff!!

If your name is all over their order, your the one that will suffer the most, and it is evident that it's a loosing battle because there isn't more flower shops today, there are LESS!

Order gatherers are DESTRUCTIVE because they promise things that are UN-PROMISABLE!

Consumers don't like it when they go into a store to buy a product that was advertised and the store says we're out of that, but we have this. That just PISSES people off!

Don't you think for one minute that things are finally catching up on all the over promising that has been taking place since the internet came to be.

Stay focused on what is most important to your business longevity and that is YOUR IDENTITY!

You'll never out spend them, but you certainly shouldn't be filling problematic orders. You see those orders aren't their problems, they are yours.

Create an identity of your own design. Worry about EACH customer one at a time. Show those prospective shoppers why they should become a customer.

There is one thing about the plus key on a calculator I like and that's watching the number grow. Be satisfied with single digits, because sooner than you think you'll see the doubles!!!

Order gatherers don't have to get it, YOU DO!!
 
Business doesn't require an MBA!

Mr Sears worked at a Train station.

Sam Walton put himself on the map selling women's 39cent panties.

They had three things in common; A dream, work ethic and COMMON SENCE!!

That's all it takes!

They didn't start out rich, they became RICH by working with one customer at a time!
 
great post, Rob!
I still don't know if order-gatherers are the reason so many florists are dying out or if it's a combination of antiquated or mismanaged shops and a more savvy consumer.
I think it's a bit of each.
Florists who are unwilling to embrace technology, to change their design style or habit, to learn about the 'business' of flowers are the ones who will die out.
 
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great post, Rob!
I still don't know if order-gatherers are the reason so many florists are dying out or if it's a combination of antiquated or mismanaged shops and a more savvy consumer.
I think it's a bit of each.
Florists who are unwilling to embrace technology, to change their design style or habit, to learn about the 'business' of flowers are the ones who will die out.
#1 Grocery stores and Wholesale stores selling similar product for 1/4 the price.
#2 "mismanaged shops and a more savvy consumer."
Distant #3 - Order Gatherers - But this is only even an issue due to #2.

Our industry leaders are encouraging many to become order gatherers. Their words are not easily interpreted, and I believe that is by design. Not necessarily because they think you'll be successful gathering orders, they just think we should do what everyone else is doing.

Does that even sit well with you? Didn't our Mom's tell us not to do something just because everyone else was? What the heck is wrong with this line of thinking?

This is why I think order gatherers DON'T get it, and for that matter our industry leaders don't get it either!
Our industry leader does get it completely, we just can't seem to get the fact that our business was being segmented into multiple streams while we were sleeping.

(These lists are in no way all encompassing, but food for thought)

Before 2000 there were 3 streams and everyone was happy:
1. Local walk in
2. Out of town wire business from florists
3. Out of town wire business from FTD/TF

Now there are many streams.

1. Local walk in - grocery stores have taken a massive chunk of this but this can be a growth market if you take out your competitors
2. Local internet - order gatherers were the first to adopt but a growth market for florists
3. Out of town wire business from florists - dying due to the internet
4. Out of town wire business from 800TFTD etc.
5. Out of town internet business - growth market for most florists
6. Orders gathered by 3rd parties - gradually slowing market due to #5 (IMO)
7. Boxed flowers shipped - cheaper option, same issue as the grocery stores.

From what I have seen, Oberers IS acting like an order gatherer, and doing a great job of it. Acting like an OG doesn't mean having a listing for every city in the world, it means running your business with a high level of technology and business savvy. The articles are bang on.

We need to focus on the potential growth markets for ourselves, and forget about things we can't possibly have an effect on. These things are here to stay, but they shouldn't consume us. Unfortunately we are in a declining market due to our own stream shrinking, and there ARE too many florists. Broad generalized statements are not useful or helpful to business owners, but a targeted business strategy that weighs all the options is not an option.



 
The difference between gathering orders and looking for customers can usually be discovered in the words that business operators describe what they are doing to generate business.

Order gatherers might say things like;

#1 If there's a nickel to be made we want it.
#2 We're filling excess capacity.
#4 If there is an order coming into my area, I wanna deliver it.
#5 We want every order we can get.

I think companies "Looking for customers" should work with questions rather than making a statement;

#1 What can we offer people that they are not getting?
#2 What can we do differently and still be unique?
#3 What do we need to change in our business to increase sales?
#4 Are we able to do something no one else is willing to do?
#5 What do we need to do to make quality product more affordable?

As for Oberer's, there are lots of orders coming into our delivery area that we definitely do NOT want to be delivering!

Those orders, do not convey our IDENTITY!

We're not interested in those orders! More importantly our business has not suffered because we choose not to fill them.

You have a choice, and don't under estimate the people in your local markets, they have a choice also! Let them see the difference between your business and everyone else's.

Attached is an example of an email that we sent out to our customers on Friday. The email generated over 100 orders for our local delivery area.

In addition to the delivery orders the email promotion also prompted people to visit our stores and pick the item up for themselves. It was a win - win because it proves people will seek out an independent florist as a DESTINATION STOP and purchase flowers for themselves.

They just NEED A REASON and want to see the VALUE.

This item obviously is unique to Oberer's Flowers, it was created by us and available only from us. This is the type of product that helps keep our business successful. The trick to business isn't doing what everyone else is, it's what we can do that no one else would even consider.

It wasn't too many years ago that we started collecting email addresses from our customers. We added to the list one at a time.

It's never about how many you have on your list, it's more about what type of marketing you do to keep them coming back!

We're not selling cheap flowers, we're just making quality product more affordable. Everything we sell isn't low priced, we have arrangements for $249.00 on our site and our average order is still over $50.00. We just focus on increasing the VALUE in every price range in the most obvious way for our customers.

What I am saying is a SPECIAL needs to be a SPECIAL and a PROMOTION better be a PROMOTION!

If not, don't expect your CUSTOMERS to look at you any differently than everyone else!

We didn't achieve reasonable success through GATHERING ORDERS!

But you can EXPECT IT by doing business LOOKING for CUSTOMERS!


vanilla-pumpkin.jpg
 
As for Oberer's, there are lots of orders coming into our delivery area that we definitely do NOT want to be delivering!

Those orders, do not convey our IDENTITY!

We're not interested in those orders! More importantly our business has not suffered because we choose not to fill them.
Me too...

Careful Rob or you'll get lumped into the "radical florist" category like me.

LOL....
 
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Me too...

Careful Rob or you'll get lumped into the "radical florist" category like me.

LOL....

I'm already there, heck that's why Randy hired me!

Who wants to be known as a normal florist -

The whole Oberer's crew are a bunch of Radicals! LOL

Isn't it fun though?
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by ROBSWF

As for Oberer's, there are lots of orders coming into our delivery area that we definitely do NOT want to be delivering!

Those orders, do not convey our IDENTITY!

We're not interested in those orders! More importantly our business has not suffered because we choose not to fill them.


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I couldn't agree more with this part. (Wire service free and all as we are...)
 
This is the part I don't agree with:

"We need to focus on the potential growth markets for ourselves, and forget about things we can't possibly have an effect on. These things are here to stay, but they shouldn't consume us"

I don't think Order Gatherers (the type who just gather orders without filling them) are here to say. Every generation is smarter and the public learns new things all the time and then practices become obsolete. With more and more florists getting their websites up to par, OG's will see their sales drop more and more. There was a gap in florists jumping on the internet thing and that's where the OG's sprung up. But I don't believe we need to just sit back and let these jerks take over. I still focus on doing all I can for my business and my local market but it does not mean that I will ever stop complaining about order gatherers. The practice is deceptive and annoying and they deserve for bad word of mouth to be spread about what they are doing (I'm talking about the ones who have a site in every town but no florist. And I think it's odd to use the term OG to refer to florists doing the honest practice of gaining more customers because it's a totally different thing and not comparable to what the deceptive OG's are doing.)
 
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Sarah, for every person that is educated, a new person buying flowers for the first time being marketed to intensely by ogs is there waiting to use there debit card without speaking to anyone and sending flowers from their work desk and a small shop barely making it to fill that order and possibly botch it or do a decent job, for every shop doing a decent job it allows that og to market and succeed at a second and third order, there are still many shops doing a passable job of filling perpetuating the success of these brokers ....unfortunately we are very far way from these guys being gone...I think that the furthering of florist education is working better than educating the consumer, because florists are not filling these orders faster and faster than people not buying from the brokers...sometimes cheap over rules everything from a consumer point of view...
 
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This is the part I don't agree with:

"We need to focus on the potential growth markets for ourselves, and forget about things we can't possibly have an effect on. These things are here to stay, but they shouldn't consume us"

They just jumped on an "opportunity" while we (florists) we're asleep at the wheel. She's right they are here to stay and you can build some "good business" filling some of their orders (put the eggs away). Rob said those orders don't showcase their store and I would agree, however...........you can change this. The 3 stores in our area have all gotten on the same page and finally we dictate to them "OG" what we will and won't do. It's taken a long time, but we're makin headway. We reject any order from them that doesn't meet our criteria. Yesterday Just F....... called with an order after we had rejected the order twice (other stores also). When I told the supervisor that they would have to meet our guidlines, she said" You're not going to dictate to us or our customer" and I said " We'll thanks for calling" and she said, "but wait don't hang up, please". I see in our notes what we need to do for a store in your area to fill our orders. So I delviered $74 big beautiful vase arr. (that meet our criteria with no specs) to a Doctor's wife in a gated communtiy. We have a 3 step program in place for coverting up to 40% of sales leads off OG orders. They done the marketing, set me all the customer information and given me an "exclusive invitation" into the home of a well off Doctor (who has 5 partners and 31 employess) So my driver did his job, came back with the husbands name and contact person, email address for the wife and the email address for her sister who used the OG in the first place. Her sister used the OG because "NO FLORIST" had a "sales path" in place for her. I will make MONEY off that order and the OG will loose a customer for good !! The research I'm seeing is that it takes $60 - $80 to get a new customer if you're fishing in a pond with your competitors, so to me this is cheaper. I know some of you are thinking to yourslef, how many does he fill?.......usually only about 1/2, we cherry pick the orders and make them meet "our criteria"........................Going into the holidays have a followup plan and clear defined "sales path" for your customers. So yes, I could have told JF to "piss off" like I do alot, but this attorney (her sister) would have suffered. If her order had not gotten delivered, that could have been all it took to send her to an alternative gift idea or product. I sell flowers, not emotion! My heart and passion is for the "duped customer" not me filling great about telling an OG to stick it. All involved are thankful.......and today the work begins on 3 new converts to the "Floral Revoluton".............................
 
This is the part I don't agree with:

"We need to focus on the potential growth markets for ourselves, and forget about things we can't possibly have an effect on. These things are here to stay, but they shouldn't consume us"

I don't think Order Gatherers (the type who just gather orders without filling them) are here to say. Every generation is smarter and the public learns new things all the time and then practices become obsolete. With more and more florists getting their websites up to par, OG's will see their sales drop more and more. There was a gap in florists jumping on the internet thing and that's where the OG's sprung up. But I don't believe we need to just sit back and let these jerks take over. I still focus on doing all I can for my business and my local market but it does not mean that I will ever stop complaining about order gatherers. The practice is deceptive and annoying and they deserve for bad word of mouth to be spread about what they are doing (I'm talking about the ones who have a site in every town but no florist. And I think it's odd to use the term OG to refer to florists doing the honest practice of gaining more customers because it's a totally different thing and not comparable to what the deceptive OG's are doing.)
Again, I agree with you on this, but we do all gather orders for our respective delivery areas. This difference is when you gather orders you don't fill yourself, which we all do to some extent as well.

I didn't say stop complaining, I said focus and don't let it consume us. Where we have limited control and capability is in providing "Nationwide" or "Worldwide" service as the big order gatherers can. This gives them a huge advantage over us. Is an iPhone app going to be hugely successful for a local florist? I don't think so, it's just far too specific an application. If you want to promote world wide delivery, you can make it worth while.

We see these out of town orders as what used to be easy pickings, and now they have become difficult to attain and unprofitable if the come from the wrong source. Our job got harder. We now have to focus on or local markets and our own out of town channel, such as a website. This is what has made Oberers so successful. They have created revenue where there was none to begin with and I am sure kill the competition left and right. Get people to dive into your store fronts, both retail and online, and the OG issue will seem much smaller and a revenue stream you don't want or need to deal with. Those who take the challenge head on, will grow their business and won't have time to worry about it.
 
They just jumped on an "opportunity" while we (florists) we're asleep at the wheel. She's right they are here to stay and you can build some "good business" filling some of their orders (put the eggs away). Rob said those orders don't showcase their store and I would agree, however...........you can change this. The 3 stores in our area have all gotten on the same page and finally we dictate to them "OG" what we will and won't do. It's taken a long time, but we're makin headway. We reject any order from them that doesn't meet our criteria. Yesterday Just F....... called with an order after we had rejected the order twice (other stores also). When I told the supervisor that they would have to meet our guidlines, she said" You're not going to dictate to us or our customer" and I said " We'll thanks for calling" and she said, "but wait don't hang up, please". I see in our notes what we need to do for a store in your area to fill our orders. So I delviered $74 big beautiful vase arr. (that meet our criteria with no specs) to a Doctor's wife in a gated communtiy. We have a 3 step program in place for coverting up to 40% of sales leads off OG orders. They done the marketing, set me all the customer information and given me an "exclusive invitation" into the home of a well off Doctor (who has 5 partners and 31 employess) So my driver did his job, came back with the husbands name and contact person, email address for the wife and the email address for her sister who used the OG in the first place. Her sister used the OG because "NO FLORIST" had a "sales path" in place for her. I will make MONEY off that order and the OG will loose a customer for good !! The research I'm seeing is that it takes $60 - $80 to get a new customer if you're fishing in a pond with your competitors, so to me this is cheaper. I know some of you are thinking to yourslef, how many does he fill?.......usually only about 1/2, we cherry pick the orders and make them meet "our criteria"........................Going into the holidays have a followup plan and clear defined "sales path" for your customers. So yes, I could have told JF to "piss off" like I do alot, but this attorney (her sister) would have suffered. If her order had not gotten delivered, that could have been all it took to send her to an alternative gift idea or product. I sell flowers, not emotion! My heart and passion is for the "duped customer" not me filling great about telling an OG to stick it. All involved are thankful.......and today the work begins on 3 new converts to the "Floral Revoluton".............................
I LOVE THIS!

As I have always said, consider the WS membership as a marketing expense and it clears everything up in your mind. I have often considered signing up just for this reason, budgeting $ for it and filling the orders at close to zero margin for the shop. This would include the cost of marketing material and potentially some over stuffing of the arrangements.

Absolutely agree. The cost to CREATE a flower buyer in your area is incredible, but the cost to convert an already engaged customer can be much less.
 
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I LOVE THIS!

As I have always said, consider the WS membership as a marketing expense and it clears everything up in your mind. I have often considered signing up just for this reason, budgeting $ for it and filling the orders at close to zero margin for the shop. This would include the cost of marketing material and potentially some over stuffing of the arrangements.

Absolutely agree. The cost to CREATE a flower buyer in your area is incredible, but the cost to convert an already engaged customer can be much less.

I really dont think this can work. By the time all the fees etc are taken the cost is that big to send a filled to value bouquet that it would not be justifiable in my opinion. I would say that there are far more successful campaigns that the money could work with.

I am so pleased i was only relay for 1 year. It only works for them and actually ftr, I do think customers are wising up and agree with Sarah, eventually everyone will order online or go through a pos system without the use for a relay. Just my thoughts and to be honest, they are very unresearched thoughts, more anecdotal...
 
Maybe in your mind....... I still have an issue with the deception thing... but alas,
My statement is:

"IF YOU ARE CURRENTLY PART OF A WIRE SERVICE, CONSIDER IT A MARKETING EXPENSE TO THE MAIN BUSINESS, NOT AS A SEPARATE BUSINESS UNIT THAT MAKES OR LOSES MONEY".

Many people here can't, won't, don't or are afraid to leave the wire services. I am (as is Bootcamp) proposing an alternative to worrying and losing sleep about whether or not it is profitable. Take what you have and get the best out of it that you can. Use their marketing $$ to work for you.

This is nothing to do with any of the rhetoric about wire services and deception.
 
No one knows for sure the fate of the order gatherers but I would not ever place bets on things not changing because things in this industry change constantly.

Bottom line is they are an unnecessary service (and they become less neccessary every day as more and more florists get web savy) with no means of consistently offerring a good product and service and that is not a recipe for long-term success regardless of low price.
 
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No one knows for sure the fate of the order gatherers but I would not ever place bets on things not changing because things in this industry change constantly............

I think that some of the OG and WS will have major problems next year and possibly slide, but only because of money. If you're bills are 100 million and you owe 100 million, sooner or later the investors say "I want my money back". When that happens, business's close. Remember back to the dot.com in the 80's, they grew real big and then fell equally hard. But the research shows, when one falls, there's one more ready to go into business and ALWAYS WILL BE, FACT OF LIFE. When 1-800 buys the tool bar for all the holidays on AOL/YAHOO and others (we don't have that 1/2 million each) to do that !!! Where we have strength in numbers is education. They are trying to make the flower buying public be like self service gas stations in the 90's. You don't need the attendant, just "pump your gas"...........but we the florist have the advantage that we are the ones that ring the doorbells and say "City Florist"..............then it's up to City Florist to re-direct/re-educate and re-energize the flower buying base. Done for today................
 
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No one knows for sure the fate of the order gatherers but I would not ever place bets on things not changing because things in this industry change constantly.

Bottom line is they are an unnecessary service (and they become less neccessary every day as more and more florists get web savy) with no means of consistently offerring a good product and service and that is not a recipe for long-term success regardless of low price.

Jane,

I agree! Relevancy is very important and that word brings about change in every industry. Sometimes it takes people longer to realize that products or in this case SERVICES are no longer relevant.

Order volumes are NOT going up through the wire service systems, they are going down!

That does NOT automatically mean your local DELIVERY numbers should be falling, it only affects the source of where the orders are coming from (and from whom).

ZERO in on what orders leaving your shop should look like! This will put you in a better position to ATTRACT new localized customers.

People are STILL trying to find you, they are just being tricked that someone else is located in your city that is NOT!