Order Gatherers Don't Get It!

[ROBSWF]

We reject any order from them that doesn't meet our criteria. Yesterday Just F....... called with an order after we had rejected the order twice (other stores also). When I told the supervisor that they would have to meet our guidlines, she said" You're not going to dictate to us or our customer" and I said " We'll thanks for calling" and she said, "but wait don't hang up, please". I see in our notes what we need to do for a store in your area to fill our orders. So I delviered $74 big beautiful vase arr. (that meet our criteria with no specs)

I agree!

I think almost every order would be best sent as a designers choice for the amount the customer would like to spend.

Unfortunately people are made to believe that the picture is what will be delivered. It rarely is, and they are surprised just how small it is and how little product is contained.

I believe florists have a more liberal side when they have the freedom to create their own image and identity. That's why every outgoing order we send is a non specific, non codified, non pictured order! We send an amount and leave the design to the shop. We only hope it won't be subsidized.

There just is no easy solution to this debate. The whole system has morphed into a profit eating machine in which every nickel has been removed before the orders make it to the design room table on the delivery end.

Even if there are a few nickels left, what does it cost you to carry receivables 60 or 90 days when you have to pay your bills net 30?

You can't be in a discount business and finance long term. That part doesn't work.

 

[Doug Munro]

No one knows for sure the fate of the order gatherers but I would not ever place bets on things not changing because things in this industry change constantly.

Bottom line is they are an unnecessary service (and they become less neccessary every day as more and more florists get web savy) with no means of consistently offerring a good product and service and that is not a recipe for long-term success regardless of low price.

Sorry, but the reality here is far different from the perception.
First as I have stated many times, the average flower buyer is a far different creature than most consumers in the sense of "frequency of purchase". When an individual makes a $40.00 - $60.00 purchase less than 2 times a year thay are not very open or eager to be "educated". They just want to make the purchase.

Here is the strength of large online flower retailers (I purposely did not use the term Order Gatherer)......MARKETING. The average retail florist uses what I refer as the "Field of Dreams" method of marketing their website..... "Build it and they will come". Sure there are exceptions, but in general most independent florists sign up for a template website and then sit back and wait for the orders to roll in.

On the other hand, look at any large high volume online flower retailer, in almost every case their website is treated as a business onto itself, not as an add on that they will play with if they "ever have the time". Money and resources are heavily invested in on line marketing, site optimization, ongoing site development, and in customer follow up. The successful online flower retailers generally look at the long term, rather than fixating on the short term (as most retail flower shops do) Years ago I remember listening to Michael Sounan ( foormer CEO of FTD) speak and one of the things he said stuck in my mind " The average initial cost of acquiring an order online was $26.00 - $28.00". He went on to say that the key was in maintaining that customer over the long term, by doing so the per order acquisition cost dropped down to the $2.00 range.

So will the OG's go away..... Some will, but then so will some florists. The good on line flower retailers who are running a solid business are here to stay.

 

[Doug Munro]

I agree!

I think almost every order would be best sent as a designers choice for the amount the customer would like to spend.

Unfortunately people are made to believe that the picture is what will be delivered. It rarely is, and they are surprised just how small it is and how little product is contained.

I believe florists have a more liberal side when they have the freedom to create their own image and identity. That's why every outgoing order we send is a non specific, non codified, non pictured order! We send an amount and leave the design to the shop. We only hope it won't be subsidized.

There just is no easy solution to this debate. The whole system has morphed into a profit eating machine in which every nickel has been removed before the orders make it to the design room table on the delivery end.

Even if there are a few nickels left, what does it cost you to carry receivables 60 or 90 days when you have to pay your bills net 30?

You can't be in a discount business and finance long term. That part doesn't work.

I suggest that maybe there is a different way to look at all of this.

First, imagine that your business has in fact two divisions, retail and wholesale.

Your retail customers walk in your front door, phone you directly, and order off your website. Most of them purchase infrequently and pay full retail price, the higher volume ones you offer some perks to.To acquire these customers you must invest in ongoing local and online marketing. These are your bread and butter folks and should make up the majority of your sales.

Your wholesale customers (Wire Service incoming orders) purchase in volume and expect and recieve a 30 - 40 % discount off your retail list price. To acquire them you have to pay for access (membership, directory, etc) but at a lesser amount than you spend on markeing to your retail customers.

Now keep in mind that the average retail florist purchases something for $1.00 and sells it for $4.00-$5.00 to his retail customers, this allow them a gross margin of 75%-80%. So in theory even wire orders should leave plenty on the table if they are treated as " gravy" and do not make up the bulk of a florists trade.

Yes, I know that many will scream, jump up and down , and read the above and automatically dismiss it as ridiculous. However many of those same individual;s feel the hair on the back of their neck raise at the mere mention of wire services.

 

[BOSS]

When an individual makes a $40.00 - $60.00 purchase less than 2 times a year thay are not very open or eager to be "educated". They just want to make the purchase.

I disagree... I only buy a new pair of hunting boots every 2-3 years... I want to be educated about the newest, best boot for my money...that's a purchase rate of 1/6th of your above scenario.

 

[theRKF]

I disagree... I only buy a new pair of hunting boots every 2-3 years... I want to be educated about the newest, best boot for my money...that's a purchase rate of 1/6th of your above scenario.

What's the cost of those boots?

How much time do you spend IN those boots?

I'm willing to bet it's a very different investment than buying flowers for someone else.

 

[BOSS]

What's the cost of those boots?

How much time do you spend IN those boots?

I'm willing to bet it's a very different investment than buying flowers for someone else.

A LOT of time...and about $150-175.00, near the price of a nice sympathy piece...

It is a different investment, but my point is that consumers want to be educated, and the price of the purchase is not a factor. I spent 20 minutes yesterday explaining the details of Bittersweet for a customer... $14.50 purchase...

 

[theRKF]

A LOT of time...and about $150-175.00, near the price of a nice sympathy piece...

It is a different investment, but my point is that consumers want to be educated, and the price of the purchase is not a factor. I spent 20 minutes yesterday explaining the details of Bittersweet for a customer... $14.50 purchase...

You'll always find exceptions, but for the most part a consumer isn't nearly as interested in education for a low-price-point gift, as opposed to a bigger ticket investment that impacts their own feet for a significant amount of time

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

You'll always find exceptions, but for the most part a consumer isn't nearly as interested in education for a low-price-point gift, as opposed to a bigger ticket investment that impacts their own feet for a significant amount of time

EXACTLY WHY some mattress manufacturers can get away charging 2-3 thousand bucks for a sleep mattress!

 

[concord]

EXACTLY WHY some mattress manufacturers can get away charging 2-3 thousand bucks for a sleep mattress!

I do love my memory foam mattress! Worth every penny

 

[Mikey the Flower Guy]

I do love my memory foam mattress! Worth every penny

funny short story.....phone rings yesterday, a beautiful smooth voice on the other end says "I LOVE YOU"......:spintongu......"I've loved you since the very first time I called"....:help:....."my momma says that SHE loves you too!!".....:squish:....." yup, we BOTH LOVE HOLDEN'S".....:blowkiss:......." yep, my momma needs her birthday flowers, and I NEED YOU!"......lol....then I got a handsome order for her momma!!...I was in stitches by the time we finished our conversation!

 

[Clarabella]

Hello to all...I have not been on much lately because I have been very busy. I have had back to back weddings, starting in april a bit quiet in july and then back at it august, sept, oct and finished with a bang, two homecomings last couple weekends two weddings each weekend and I worked it all alone. I am a small shop, trying very hard not to hire help except for occasional wedding or holiday help and I have found that I can handle far more alone than I ever thought I could alone.... I have at last resigned my last wire service, FTD so as of Jan I will no longer be in any book. I perused the new TF book comments and all I felt was huge relief at not being a part of all that anymore. I have said in the past I originally did wire services to get my name out there as the newbie, however I have to say I don't think in the overall look back that that did a whole lot for me. I have also come to see, patience plays a huge role in growing, word of mouth is absolutely the best way to grow in a community. I do my very best, endeavor to be on top of latest trends, and give the biggest show for the buck I can give and its paying off. I have NOT missed the wire services at all. I went thru mothers day last year with just one wire service after three MD's with three wire services and it went so smooth and so easy and I MADE money without half the extra help and delivery problems. I am in this for the long haul and its brick on brick, one customer at a time and what they say to others is huge. I donated a vased arrangement for a certain value to a cancer fund raiser thru another business a few days ago, the lady came in to use the gift certificate and told me she wanted it because she had seen my work and heard such good things about me, and that she had been in my shop before, I made sure she left with way more flowers than the certificate said she would receive, and she commented that she was sure....the value was way over what she was supposed to receive. In talking to her I had found that she was a breast cancer survivor, and I told her...this arrangement is going to be bright and beautiful and NOT PINK...because I bet you have seen enough pink. She was so happy.....and thats what this is all about! If we remember that what we do makes people happy, makes them feel special, consoles their grief and gives them comfort, helps them celebrate the best times of their life, first baby, first prom or homecoming, first love, wedding...the list goes on and on...and we get to be a part. We all have a niche to fill and I love finding mine and I am finding it. I love my customers I appreciate them and they know it. I love being a florist... and now after all that rambling I just want to say....(back to the topic) I love telling Just Flowers in particular that I WILL NOT FILL THEIR ORDERS EVER!! I love that I do not have to put up with their silliness. I have had them call me and send me orders of late more than ever before. I have gotten orders for towns as much as two hours away and they are clueless. Rejected them to get phone calls and I mean lots of them to get orders filled...desperation, I too think they are a dying breed, not too many people want to deal with placing orders that cannot be filled. I had one lady call me about an order I had rejected on phone or computer atleast 7 times. I filled it for her when she called herself because I was the closest shop to where it had to go...I got a fair delivery charge, made a beautiful arrangement and delivered it....it came back to me because....because we are the REAL FLORIST doing the real JOB not just processing paper requests and sending them off to anyone they can .....we are Order gatherers but voice to voice and person to person taking care of the real business....of Flowers.....thanks for letting me ramble...hope you all have a wonderful weekend.....

 

[bootcampguy]

I suggest that maybe there is a different way to look at all of this.

First, imagine that your business has in fact two divisions, retail and wholesale.

Your retail customers walk in your front door, phone you directly, and order off your website. Most of them purchase infrequently and pay full retail price, the higher volume ones you offer some perks to.To acquire these customers you must invest in ongoing local and online marketing. These are your bread and butter folks and should make up the majority of your sales........

What this says is that we must have multiple sales paths for our customers. Customers are impatient and want everyhting today. I will use whatever tool is at my disposal to manufacture sales. Manufactured sales + sales path = more porfits.
I will use all of them as they have used me for the greater goals of increased sales. TF, FTD, PF, 800, all dot.com could care less if I or you make it, they have the approval number so now it's the customers problem. It's all about planning. More florist spend more time planning their vacation then the holidays they work for. Succes is "when planning and opportunity cross paths". So we have 2 major holidays fastly approching and your sales marketing should be done or close to to it. We retail florist have so many more vehicles to use for marketing that the OG will ever have, they have one, the internet. I agree with Doug, they will come and go by name but they or the practice is here to stay. They don't let SAF teach them or guide them they listen to the professional who teach marketing stratgies, etc. They know how to get sales, now it's our turn...............
This book they sell another fee SO MAKE THAT WORK. All dot.com orders are subject to a "profit surcharge" at the holidays. That fee might be between $2 - $3. It pays for that 53" truck out back, the new book, etc. I know it's not allowed, "so fire me"...............they wouldn't dare..............they are money hungry................Look at your fees and then make them back somewhere and don't be afraid to tell the customers that buying through dot.com or OG is costing them more money that buying from a local store. So charge me for your book, I'll make it back, trust me and then steal your customers for good. Think of someone you know or in your family who you might not really care for, but have to get along with them for the sake of the common goal..........................SELLING FLOWERS

 

[lori042499]

OK, I am going to put a rather stupid question out there, stupid because as a business person I should know this but don't...

How much of our gross sales should be spent on marketing???

I have always worked for or managed shops in the 400,000-800,000 a year in my adult life....and only one ever had enough sense to market anything everyone else depended on ws orders to make their name...a trend I am seeing on why all the florists I worked for struggled...I have never actually worked for a florist who was ever happy with the amount of work or profit they had so it is very hard from my point of view to really see the common connection...
they have all had wire services...

 

[bootcampguy]

There are no stupid questions.......

In marketing there's is no percentage.......(quit screamin).......Adverstising ranges from 3% - 5%. Marketing, your shooting for a ROI (return on investment). So you have to ask every preson who purchases, how they heard about you. Example: If you spend $100, I want $1000 back so, 90% return on investment. Sometimes I flop and other times ....do better. But at least I know what's working. With advertising you shooting an arrow into the woods and then you have to go find where it hit. Advertising does work (just ask 800 on the AOL toolbar they by at every holiday).

Here are my definitions:
Advertising: A way or means to get our your message or products out, with profit in mind for others..................

Marketing: A way or means to grow your products and/or services with profit in mind for you.............

I personally like direct mail programs, once you gain the trust of the person your sending to, each time you market/mail them your percentage of them opening that piece increases by 10%.....................up to a high in the mid-70% range.................
then your in your own pond not sharing any information. This is why I fill some orders for WS or OG is that I get a seat at the dinner table with the whole family for about the next week.

 

[theRKF]

Here are my definitions:
Advertising: A way or means to get our your message or products out, with profit in mind for others..................

Marketing: A way or means to grow your products and/or services with profit in mind for you.............

This is something that Rick and I have some fun with, since I hold to more traditional definitions for these terms

Marketing is about telling a story, painting a picture - it's about identifying, reaching out to, and connecting with your target audience in a way that's going to leave a favourable impression of your company.

Advertising is a top-level tactic, a component in a marketing plan.

Marketing is more than, but can include, advertising. -> Advertising has to be directed by marketing.

From wikipedia (*this may be one of the first times I've referenced wikipedia as a good source!):

Marketing is the process by which companies create customer interest in goods or services. It generates the strategy that underlies sales techniques, business communication, and business developments.[1] It is an integrated process through which companies build strong customer relationships and create value for their customers and for themselves.

Marketing is used to identify the customer, to satisfy the customer, and to keep the customer. With the customer as the focus of its activities, it can be concluded that marketing management is one of the major components of business management. Marketing evolved to meet the stasis in developing new markets caused by mature markets and overcapacities in the last 2-3 centuries. The adoption of marketing strategies requires businesses to shift their focus from production to the perceived needs and wants of their customers as the means of staying profitable.

The term marketing concept holds that achieving organizational goals depends on knowing the needs and wants of target markets and delivering the desired satisfactions. It proposes that in order to satisfy its organizational objectives, an organization should anticipate the needs and wants of consumers and satisfy these more effectively than competitors.

Advertising is a form of communication intended to persuade an audience (viewers, readers or listeners) to purchase or take some action upon products, ideals, or services. It includes the name of a product or service and how that product or service could benefit the consumer, to persuade a target market to purchase or to consume that particular brand. These brands are usually paid for or identified through sponsors and viewed via various media. Advertising can also serve to communicate an idea to a large number of people in an attempt to convince them to take a certain action.

Commercial advertisers often seek to generate increased consumption of their products or services through branding, which involves the repetition of an image or product name in an effort to associate related qualities with the brand in the minds of consumers.

Based on the above definition of marketing - focus on customer needs and wants - can ANYONE here tell me they can't out-market the OGs? Really?

 

[lori042499]

Ryan, every florist can out market the ogs for sure...but do they...I have over the years encountered so many florists that disgust me in terms of knowledge, helpfulness and business acumen....so many either couldn't be bothered or hire people who couldn't be bothered...It has always made me wonder why they are in business. Since owning my own flower shop, I cannot tell you how many people come to me so thoroughly disgusted with their current florist for just being unfriendly and unhelpful, in the beginning I thought they were just agravated by one purchase, but in acquiring some of these people and hearing over and over how different their experience is here, I began to ask questions about what lead to them being so disgusted and why their experience is so different here...I have learned that many of them gave these florists years to make them happy and switch to find that they were all very similar just some had better flowers so they went back to a florist they were unhappy with...Then a friend told them to try me out saying that I was friendly and helpful...That is what gets them and then my flowers and my level of service keeps them...maybe it is my area, not sure..

I think that the florists on Flowerchat as a whole are better business people than most and market themselves better than most...so we are a winning group and I would say in the top percentile of florists who do market better..I have said this for years and I mean it, there really isn't much difference between the average local florist and an og, and actually you will probably get friendlier service from an og than your local florist...I really do believe that only about 5-10% of florists are as good as what we see on this board, the rest gave up trying years ago or should have never opened in the first place....

 

[bootcampguy]

.........I think that the florists on Flowerchat as a whole are better business people than most and market themselves better than most...........so we are a winning group and I would say in the top percentile of florists who do market better..I have said this for years and I mean it, there really isn't much difference between the average local florist and an og, and actually you will probably get friendlier service from an og than your local florist...I really do believe that only about 5-10% of florists are as good as what we see on this board, the rest gave up trying years ago or should have never opened in the first place....

Lori, with this said, there's no reason any florist out there, shouldn't be doing "big business" right now............the sleeper florists are going by the wayside fast, but it's time to turn up the heat and do more and better. All marketing is having some systems in place that happen automatically and then you get -re-occuring business.