Prove Me Wrong... wire service myths

Another Perspective

As a Newbie to FC and with only 2 ½ yrs in the floral business let me weigh in on your challenge since I love honest debate. I must add that even though my wife and I are relatively new to the retail floral business, I do bring over 20 yrs of small business experience into the discussion. We bought a shop that had been established for 14+ yrs with 70% of the orders coming via the WS and assuming this was normal!! Being a bit of a spread sheet guru I have been analyzing sales for the last two years. I wouldn’t argue too much with your numbers but I think there are some other factors and questions you have to consider in the decision process.

First not every floral shop is the same. Depending on size of your city, location, competition, etc you have to figure out a business model that works for you and your store. We have found that having 25 to 30% of our business coming from wire orders works into our model and helps us be more profitable overall. You say, “How can that be?” based on the above numbers?

Here is how I see it. I have designers scheduled every day for certain time periods based on past sales numbers from last year & current trends so I have to pay them no matter how many orders I actually come through the shop on any given day. I would love to have a consistent amount of just local and corporate orders moving through all day long but it rarely happens in retail.

So even though I don’t make as much on wire orders, they do help pay my designers and delivery people and keep them productive. When we deliver these orders it also puts us into contact with and gets our name in front of potential new local customers in our community. I am by no means pushing Wire orders but our industry has changed immensely in the last few years and I think we have to look for creative ways to make things work for each of our situations and if it doesn’t, then adjust accordingly.

We have found little tricks to the trade for working with WS orders and getting that extra five or ten bucks out of them to make it more profitable. For ex: we service two outlying areas that other shops don’t like to do either. By taking wire orders to these areas it makes our trips more profitable. The trick is refusing the orders in the morning unless they come up with additional money for delivery and being willing to taking them back in mid afternoon (when they are desperate) because no one else was willing to do them, it becomes kind of a win-win deal. But you see this works for us because of our location, competition, etc and might not work for you. There are other things you can do to reduce WS costs which I could maybe share down the road.
Moral to this story: The numbers don’t lie but you have to ask them the right questions. Here is my version:

+$50.00 Incoming Wire order


$10.00 20% Sending florist commission
$ 3.50 7% Clearing House commission
$ 4.00 Labor .25 Hrs @$14p/Hr= $3.00 5Min Order Processing @$12/Hr = $1.00
$12.50 Cost of goods (container, greens, flowers) C-$2, Grns $.50, Flwrs-$10
$ 7.20 Delivery expense (Driver @ 3 drops p/Hr @$12, +Vehicle,Gas, Ins,etc)
$ 37.20 Total cost - 74%
$ 12.80 Gross Profit - 26
 
Dale, Those are very correct numbers on the surface...Where do you figure in all the excess fees that the WS charges that further takes away from that gross profit? Those are the exact figures that had me beliveing that all my efforts with WS were being paid for when infact with the rising extra costs and the lowering wire outs and more profitable and noteworthy florist to florist orders, the orders were costing me a few cents each..

The fees not acoounted for in your model are membership, dove transmission fees, extra ads, etc...these can have a huge effect on the profitabilty of orders...I found that when filling for everyone and taking on as much as I could possibly handle...at about 80 orders incoming and 10-15 outgoing they were slightly profitable but came with a high argument/replacement/complaint rate..When I started to stop the insanity and stop filling for companies that I didn't like their sales tactics, over promising or general heavy advertising to my local customer, I found that the orders that were left were costing me to much to acquire....Where do you see the break even point being and do you fill for aggresive OG's to make that number?
 
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Wow Dale, thanks for sharing that.

The break-out is extremely helpful and I would urge anybody trying to reconcile using your figures to use their OWN COGS. A 25% COGS is an "only in my dreams" amount unless it is fiercely watched.
 
+$50.00 Incoming Wire order


$10.00 20% Sending florist commission
$ 3.50 7% Clearing House commission
$ 4.00 Labor .25 Hrs @$14p/Hr= $3.00 5Min Order Processing @$12/Hr = $1.00
$12.50 Cost of goods (container, greens, flowers) C-$2, Grns $.50, Flwrs-$10
$ 7.20 Delivery expense (Driver @ 3 drops p/Hr @$12, +Vehicle,Gas, Ins,etc)
$ 37.20 Total cost - 74%
$ 12.80 Gross Profit - 26

While I agree that it helps you "with some costs" of the store and some of tricks of the trade, but Linda is right on the overall. I market and pull 35 - 40% of the WS orders (on average) over into new accounts. Last month 5 stores tracked WS fees and the average to belond to Tele was $4500 and $4900 for FTD. That's with no (POS) system.

So last year I did 350 incoming Tele for example. If you divide that number into the $4500, it cost me $13 per. order. Now, I write off what ever my pull rate is (35%) last year, so that average is $10 per. order. I would rather pay $10 plus the 20% for a new customer ($29 - $34) on average, rather than the $65 - $85 for a new customer. For me, I save money. So the $12.80 you are making is wasted money if you do nothing with the information. You might have a great plan in place for marketing to the people that you serve for or WS orders. I glad to see you are at least studing the numbers, most don't.........
 
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Rick, That is what I'm talkin about..I didn't heve the know how or the money to market the people properly and found that all I became was the prostitute for the pimp instead of a true entrepeneur....the rates are so high on the TF orders that there was no left over dollars to market using the info given to make them more profitable than the few dollars each order, that was never gonna make my situation better, I was running in place for 5 years and got tired...now if I had a little more knowledge and a few more bucks life could have been much different for me and my partnership with the ws...maybe not...
 
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containers at $2.00 is low.... 80% of orders coming in specify special containers (not a designer choice)....and these are either purchased from WS or wholesalers.
 
containers at $2.00 is low.... 80% of orders coming in specify special containers (not a designer choice)....and these are either purchased from WS or wholesalers.

good point here the container would be at least 5.oo if not way more if its a "special" container from the wire service.
 
Dale, welcome to FlowerChat... we're always glad to see another numbers guy...

I've been doing this a long time, my Grandpa joined FTD in 1948, back in the day when the wire business was profitable, that lasted up into the late 1990's...

I would argue, that labor should be a flat % rate per order, your $4.00 is unrealistic in my opinion, as labor should be a profit center to the business, covering all employee time, as well as employer contribution, and Work-mans Comp insurance. Do you charge the same rate no matter the order amount? A percentage based method yields a better return for the business, thus a $50.00 order generates $10.00 and a $300.00 casket spray yields $60.00 (@20%) and we use 30% for sympathy and wedding work.

I disagree with "keeping people busy", my staff knows that if there's nothing going on, they WILL be sent home, could be noon, could be 3pm.

Likewise, delivery should contribute to profit after covering all related expenses. Your $7.20/delivery/3/hour comes to $21.60, paying a driver $12.00/hour actually costs the business closer to $18.00 in Michigan, plus vehicle payment, gas, ins, maintenance... I think your low.

Congrats on your 25% COG... I can't hit that... and I buy a pretty good volume. Not sure what you're using for a $2.00 container, I buy a large number, and the best I can do on Syndicate Sales 4042's which we use for a dozen roses and more is $2.40 wholesale, thus a dozen roses in my store has a COG of close to $17.50 including packaging (year around).

You are right, all shops are different, and many have to do what they feel they need to for their business, but I would also argue, that filling incoming wire orders is not profitable.
 
I've been trying to find good breakdowns like this for a while, thanks for taking the time to write that out. I read a good web article on this a few months back, I'll paste it when I get home.

One thing's for certain, any florist that sends out with the wires more than he/she receives is obviously in love with the system. The ones only receiving are getting killed.

Here's an open question to everyone:

What is fair value in % for a florist sending out an order? You spend 15 minutes with a client sending something out, what % do you feel is fair on that? Is the status quo of 20% really the right figure for the industry to sustain itself?
 
Matrix, I am not sure it is a question about what the % is worth...it is the system as a whole and what your shop needs from that portion that needs to determine what it is worth...I believe that if you are marketing for wireouts and you seek out, find and sell to people solely for wireout purposes, you should get 20% and your service charge, it costs somewhere around 50-80 dollars to get a customer and if said customer orders on average twice a year and happens to be a wireout customer mostly, you need that percentage to make the marketing dollars worth the time to bother on the large scale..but you also need a service(expense) to handle the volume of orders you want to push and an easy efficient way of getting them out which will also be offset by the 20% you keep...and if you fill some wire ins you need the 20% to subsidize the pecent you lose..

one the other hand if you are solely providing a convenient service to your local clientele who is loyal to you and occasionally needs you to send something out of town, then I say you need nothing more than your service charge to keep your customer happy with a proper arrangement sent far away...you get some cash, you save your customer the hassles and your customer doesn't need to shop elsewhere risking them liking someone else's shop...

The percentages don't work at all if there is no give and take...there is no debate about that, we all can't be sending only and take all the profit, someone has to fill in order for it to work...the whole reason for the problems in the wire services is because there are too many sending only skewing the numbers and taking away the balance that was a necessity in order to make the system operate properly...the whole system has been broken and florists refuse to see it and do something about it...so many are still filling at a very small margin, gaining in filling percentages every year as their local customers are being stolen and wondering why every year the business gets to be more labor intensive and less rewarding financially and emotionally...on paper per arrangement it will always look like you have to be making something, so it perpetuates what florists are doing and leaves them scratching their heads as to why they are slowly working themselves to bankruptcy...the money needs to be looked at on a whole year basis and wire servoce money needs to be tracked with a fine tooth comb in order to see exactly where your business stands and many florists don't have the money for an accountant to do this and aren't good enough with numbers to do it for themselves and comprehend it...
 
Here's an open question to everyone:

What is fair value in % for a florist sending out an order? You spend 15 minutes with a client sending something out, what % do you feel is fair on that? Is the status quo of 20% really the right figure for the industry to sustain itself?

If I owned a WS, I would make the split 90/10. On the out side of the order you're getting a service charge (ours if $7.95). So if you sold a $50 arr. you would make $10 plus the $7.95. I think $17.95 is ok for 10 - 15 minutes of work. I would cut out all all "tackey" containers and go to "value menu" clear glass with 2 upgrades in the same vase. The service to belong would be a flat $49.95 a month, no other fees, all email based. I would keep it simple..........just say'in
 
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Here's an open question to everyone:

What is fair value in % for a florist sending out an order? You spend 15 minutes with a client sending something out, what % do you feel is fair on that? Is the status quo of 20% really the right figure for the industry to sustain itself?
I think 20% is MORE than fair, especially coupled with the $ervice charge most also get. I think your 15 minutes is high, our average order time is less than 3 minutes for an existing customer, so on a $50.00 average order amount @ 20% we used to generate over $250.00/hour on wire outs including a $9.95 $ervice charge/order.
 
If I owned a WS, I would make the split 90/10. On the out side of the order you're getting a service charge (ours if $7.95). So if you sold a $50 arr. you would make $10 plus the $7.95. I think $17.95 is ok for 10 - 15 minutes of work. I would cut all all "tackey" containers and go to "value menu" clear glass with 2 upgrades in the same vase. The service to belond would be a flat $49.95 a month, no other fees, all email based. I would keep it simple..........just say'in

this works for me...
email based makes sense. and maybe a phone reminder that there is an order.
I don't check my email every hour all day. I get busy.
 
If I owned a WS, I would make the split 90/10. On the out side of the order you're getting a service charge (ours if $7.95). So if you sold a $50 arr. you would make $10 plus the $7.95. I think $17.95 is ok for 10 - 15 minutes of work. I would cut out all all "tackey" containers and go to "value menu" clear glass with 2 upgrades in the same vase. The service to belong would be a flat $49.95 a month, no other fees, all email based. I would keep it simple..........just say'in

Rick, your math is "funny". At a 90/10 split, a $50 order would be $5 plus your sc of $7.95 so $12.95 for your work.
 
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You really like the monthly fee model the most? I assumed that was the worst possible one given that it still doesn't guarantee you're getting what you pay for. I sort of assumed that stripping away a monthly fee and just going transaction based would be the easiest to use/understand. But I guess that's me.

Btw I'm having trouble with messaging on here today. Sorry if one of you gets a duplicate message.

I really didn't know it was $60-80$ per client to market it to new ones. No wonder the business is so tough.

If I owned a WS, I would make the split 90/10. On the out side of the order you're getting a service charge (ours if $7.95). So if you sold a $50 arr. you would make $10 plus the $7.95. I think $17.95 is ok for 10 - 15 minutes of work. I would cut out all all "tackey" containers and go to "value menu" clear glass with 2 upgrades in the same vase. The service to belong would be a flat $49.95 a month, no other fees, all email based. I would keep it simple..........just say'in